French Bee has just taken delivery of its first Airbus A350-1000, which features 480 seats. This makes it the world’s most efficient long haul aircraft. I’m undecided as to whether this is an incredible feat, or just sounds plain awful.
Continue reading: Whoa: French Bee’s New 480-Seat Airbus A350-1000
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Frenchbee/Air Caraibes (same company) is mostly operating between Paris and the French Overseas Territories. Those are very very big lines (Air France is also putting some 468 seats 77W. Air Caraïbes is also operating some very awful A330s with 3-3-3 economy seating --even worse than 3-4-3 on A350)
They have traffic at any time of the year thanks to people visiting family/friends/relatives
No doubt they'll make money with this horrible configuration!
Majority of infrequent travelers are clueless about differences in cabin layout, inflight service and other aspects of flying on different airlines. All they see is the price for an economy ticket, and in their mind all economy seats are the same.
While this blog is mostly focused on premium travel, it could be useful to have a ranking of long-haul wide-body economy seats too. My (probably incomplete) best-to-worst list would be:
1. 10 seats per row A380
2. 8 seats per row 787 (JAL only?)
3. 7 seats per row 767
4. 9 reclining seats per row 777 (are there any of them left?)
5. 9 seats per row A350
6. 10 seats per row 747
7. 9 seats per row 787
8. 9 non-reclining seats per row 777 (ANA only? I hate these shell-type economy seats)
9. 10 seats per row 777
10. 10 seats per row A350
Am I missing anything?
I would absolutely LOVE, LOVE to read a review of that product Lucky (change of pace from Four Seasons/Rosewood level stuff 😀 ).
I’m a little concerned on the safety and how many people can exit an airplane when its this dense
At the right price for me, I'd do it from EWR-CDG for 7 hours in Y.
24h CDG-PPT (and even 12h SFO) is really pushing it. I typically save my miles for J/F for more than 12hr flights and don't waste them on J from NYC -> western Europe. I fly to east asia enough to make it matter.
But that's just me.
Be "concerned" all you want. Nobody cares. For the target demographic, price is all they care about.
8 seats per row on A330/A340
Very convenient for couples, families, and for getting a row of 2 to yourself when flight is not busy.
I’d personally put it at least on par with the 767
Bingo there sir. This is something Lucky would have likely not researched or forgotten when he checked out this airline, their primary routes are the French overseas territory like Réunion Island and these planes are consistently pretty full despite it being a 10 hour trip to Paris, in fact the market is so large that even leisure carrier Corsair gets into that action
I hope they don't have any issues with the bathrooms midway through. That could be messy!
FYI Ben, the autoplaying video in the lower right corner of every page which overlaps content is so distracting that I now exclusively use Safari's "Reader View" on your website which means I see *none* of your advertising.
From what I read, this plane will exclusively felt between Paris and Saint Denis de la Reunion.
The new video widget is widespread all over the internet and absolutely horrible. I think I’m going to have a mental breakdown from them.
After about 5 years, AA will purchase used A350-1000 from Frenchbee and strip individual screens from the seats...
Exactly! The average leisure flier is incredibly uninformed and sees only a low price which he/she jumps at. Only once buckled into the seat designed by Torquemada do they realize what they've done. By then, it's too late. And then: they'll bitch and moan about how miserable the flight was, only to book it again in 3 years because they see a low price.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can't have nice things and how we end up with a puppet who's head consists of spoiled oatmeal as POTUS.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll be doing that too.
Of course, nobody cares if you actually SEE it. What counts is is he gets PAID for shoving that in your face, whether or not your face notices...
What bathrooms?
By removing the bathrooms, you can squeeze in 8 more rows. "Just hold it...and think of that cheap ticket price."
This is exactly the reason why people should not necessarily equate comfort to a type of aircraft (i.e. - Airbus vs. Boeing). While there are some things that the manufacturer can do, the ultimate decision on comfort is the airline itself.
That's why when people say to me, the Airbus 320 is more comfortable than the Boeing 737, I take it with a grain of salt. I've sat in a Delta 737-800 and a Spirit A320. DL hands down.
I think that the thought of flying to begin a holiday in Tahiti or Paris would keep me excited enough to survive 10+ hours in Y class. But in all seriousness, it's more likely that after the first 3-4 hours, I'd start to notice the fact that the cabin is full of screaming babies and kids running wild. An uncomfortable seat that doesn't allow me to get any sleep. Massive queues to use the bathroom. Horrible food that doesn't fill me up or food that I don't get unless I get out my credit card. Rushed and irritable cabin crew who are there only to do one meal run and then disappear from sight for the rest of the flight. I notice that French Bee has Premium Economy, which does sound like it would be more bearable. But I fear that being an ULCC, I'd wind up paying 25% more for my airfare and simply get the seat/service that other airlnes, mostly Asian carriers, offer in their Y class.
Aaahhh, but the thought of lying in a hammock in Bora Bora or dining in a French restaurant with views of the Eiffel Tower really are too lovely to consider flying French Bee for any number of hours in Y class....
And what happens if one or more exits are unusable? The 309 people (297 pax and 12 crew) who evacuated from AF358 at YYZ in August of 2005 all got out through the left side exits. Apparently none of the right side exits were usable (and everyone on board did get out and survived).
Wow! What a way to travel. I just hope that passengers are nice to each other & crew.
It is not true that a long-haul low cost airline doesn't work. Air Transat has been operating low-cost long haul flights (Ie Vancouver to Europe, Toronto and Montreal to Europe) for over 35 years and it has made profits for many years. They have been very focused and did not shy from operating extremely dense configurated aircrafts (362 seats on A330-200 - so 3-3-3 config, and 238 seats on A310-300 - 3-3-3 config).
There's a lot of 9 reclining seats per row 777 left, but you have to look around for it. Delta, Singapore Air, some EVA Air and Air China planes, China Southern, Turkish, Kuwait, Asiana/Korean Air, JAL.
Thanks, I completely forgot about 2-4-2 A330/A340. I would rank them as 3.5, with an honorable mention of A340-600 and its bank of downstairs bathrooms that could merit a 2.5 for having a single consolidated queue, and not having any bathroom-adjacent seats.
The French seems used to it. Don't forget, Corsair was flying the B747 with 587 passengers! Nothing compared to the B747 with 455 on Virgin Atlantic, or 522 on Rossiya...
Evan,
Exactly. The "Comfort" levels of either tube in the sky are minimal to begin with. The differences are subtle and vary so much that most wouldn't be able to tell a difference had they not known actual specs, etc beforehand. This airlines just looks like a Spirit on steroids. There is also a reason why I keep my spirit flights to under 3 hrs...
A major part of what makes French Bee successful as a long-haul LCC (unlike Norwegian) is the fact that they serve high-volume leisure and VFR markets, and many of their routes have the benefit of being domestic flights due to their focus on French Overseas Territories. For instance, you forgot to mention that they also fly ORY-RUN. There's a reason why along with them, Air France, Air Austral, Air Caraibes, and Corsair all send super dense leisure-configured planes on the Paris-Reunion route (and the routes to the French Caribbean for that matter). I remember back when Air Austral was considering the densest configured A380 for it. These French overseas routes are really something else in terms of demand! I feel like there is a place for long haul LCCs to actually work sustainably on such kinds of routes, especially if they are leisure-oriented (Japan-Hawaii seems like the most comparable), but they are few and far between.
You are ignoring the pitch. Would you still put the A380 on top in it's 850 max density?
You are ignoring the config. Would a 2-5-2 777 still be better than a 3-3-3 seat A350?
While you did add the A330/340 as 3.5 (also should include A300), there is also the 9 abreast version missing (also on the A300).
You forgot the Il-96.
And if you consider historically, the Il-86, DC-10, MD-11, L-1011, and the 2-4-3 747 is still missing.
This is exactly the reason why people should not necessarily equate different things as comparable, when they can compare the same thing.
That's why when people try to compare Apples to Oranges, I take it with a grain of salt. (yummy, just realize after typing this pun)
How about a Delta 737-800 and a Delta A320-200?
Walmart? What about it and a high density airplane?
I don't see Walmart stores have more dense shelf or tighter walking space than Target or (OMG!!!!!) Whole Foods.
Is it the price?
If AA sells their ticket at Spirit prices, they are Walmart?
If AA sells their ticket at Delta prices, they are Whole Foods?
Or the only reason you generalize and discriminate Walmart is maybe because, you're a racist?
Ben, you forgot to mention the world's densiest 777-300ERs of russian Azur Air (VQ-BZA/C/D/F/Y) which have 531 seats (C7Y524) and are used at some leisure long-haul routes (like LRM and VRA) from Moscow
Have to agree with the comments about the video widget -- it is highly annoying. I didn't know about the reader view in Safari until someone in the comments mentioned it, but I just checked it out and it's awesome.
Just waiting for the inevitable operational issue that will result in 480 cheap tourists stranded somewhere for days because the airline does not have a plane and will need to ferry one in from a network carrier. Hard pass.
French Bee has been flying to Newark for several months. This article is very out of date.
Does it matter to you at all that everyone has been complaining about the website design? It needs serious investment in restructuring and design. Put a post up telling us you're aware of the flaws and working on it.
Just click the X At the top right of the video widget and it goes away.
Problem solved!
I think French bee are game changing low cost long haul ,so in the winter months down from 479 filled seats to an average of 310 the summer months you'd have maybe 600 people booking for a flight of a lifetime
Couldn't agree more, nine wide is bad enough in a 787, but 10 wide in a marginally wider frame of the 350 - not on your life !!
Bad Idea ! Too many seats for long haul . SAVINGS if any not worth it . Air line will not sell out all the time = lower!
You forget to mention that these A350-1000 will fly between Paris and Reunion island (French island in the Indian ocean), where the demand for flights to France is very high!
We already had 3 flights with this 480-seater plane.... All full!
I just flew on their ORY-EWR flight roundtrip. Both flights landed on time. In flight product ok, with full reclining seats, ample video choices, outside cameras. Food adequate, although you pay for everything. I am 6ft 1in and over 230 pounds. Seats a bit narrow for me- but again, we saved over $2500 as. Family of 5 flying with them. new year eve checkin at ORY was a disaster and a wast of 90 minutes. They seem to not know how to handle US flights and their special needs regarding customs etc.
Otherwise, not much different than economy basic on any major.
I just flew on a French Bee a350-1000. The air conditioner did not work. It was hot. It is incredibly cramped-narrow seats. The airline runs very late. Not a good airline.