Do Airlines Cancel ...
 

Do Airlines Cancel Empty Flights? Yes And No...

22 Posts
5 Users
0 Reactions
258 Views
Posts: 39965
Admin
Topic starter
(@lucky)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
[#17852]
wpf-cross-image

Yesterday I had a (non-miles & points) friend ask me a question that I’ve received many times over the years, with minor variations. ”I’m flying in a few days and my flight looks really empty, are they just going to cancel it?” It’s a fair question, so let me address that here.

Continue reading: Do Airlines Cancel Empty Flights? Yes And No…

Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.


21 Replies
21 Replies
(@Mike O.)
Joined: 7 years ago

Posts: 1063

For an airline like CX, they can use the biggest a/c they have even if the flights are empty for reasons such as a full flight on the way back, or for cargo where the belly of the a/c is full.


Reply
 sam
(@sam)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 6

for US domestic.. yes they do cancel flights that aren’t full depending on the destination.. ie SFO/OAK/SJC or JFK/EWR/LGA. they will cancel the flights and just bus people to the next closest airport to consolidate the flights..


Reply
(@Andrew Y)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 91

Porter Airlines does this all the time — cancel flights and consolidate for flights that aren’t full. It’s easy for them as they are just operating a shuttle service. Don’t expect to leave or arrive on time with them.


Reply
 mark
(@mark)
Joined: 5 years ago

Posts: 29

can assure you that has pretty much never happened.


Reply
 sam
(@sam)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 6

ha! just happened to me at OAK and all of us were put in vans to another airport


Reply
(@Evan Gerstenblith)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 5

Out of all of my flights, I’ve only had this happen once. It was about one week before departure on Tarom Romanian airlines from Rome to Bucharest. I was notified by email and rebooked via CDG. They said it almost never happens. All of their flights seem to be empty.


Reply
 Rhys
(@Rhys)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 39

Having worked in Revenue Management, Schedule Planning, and Route Planning at one of the Big 4 US carriers, a flight typically doesn't get cancelled because of loads per se. An example might be a 1PM flight out from a hub to a spoke might be terrible with low fares and few passengers, but it positions the plane for a 3PM flight back to the hub which is packed with higher fares connecting to international flights and big cities which more than makes up for the lousy leg positioning the airplane. The other scenario I can think of is if a flight that is full of 200 passengers has a maintenance cancellation, but another city with the same plane only has 30 passengers booked, but has another frequency operating 90 minutes later with open seats, an airline is going to end up inconveniencing those 30 passengers (and so many on the return), instead of 200. I literally asked this question on my first interview with an airline thinking airlines made use of economic cancellations, but there are a ton of reasons why this typically isn't the case and doesn't make sense for most airline operations. I can't speak to smaller carriers for a single frequency daily or less than daily frequency, but my experience has been with several major US airlines.


Reply
(@Rathgar)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 10

How about Global Airlines? What are the chances their ‘inaugural’ flights get cancelled due to low numbers of revenue pax?


Reply
 Brad
(@Brad)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 1

I know for a fact that’s not how Porter operates. Flights may get canceled, but not because of passenger loads. Everything and more mentioned in the article (ATC, weather, maintenance, etc.) influences a schedule on the day. Ultimately, you’re trying to delay the fewest number of people for the least amount of time - not just at that moment, but potentially over a number of days depending on how the aircraft and crew are scheduled, as well as the potential for ongoing disruptions for the same reasons. Yes, a flight with fewer passengers may get sacrificed as part of this larger ecosystem, but not simply because it has less passengers. This is especially true for the regional flights with multiple sectors per day on an aircraft.


Reply
(@Dusty)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 963

I've had two occasions with AA in 2018 and 2019 where they either cancelled to consolidate the passengers into a later flight, or cancelled because the plane never got to ATL. I don't know because they didn't tell me, but it's weird it happened twice. Both times were for a 6:30-7:30AM departure, both times cancelled around midnight before departure and left me scrambling to try and salvage my travel plans. Now I just buy a separate ticket on a different airline if I need to connect for an international award flight.


Reply
 John
(@John)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 8

Qantas Sydney-Melbourne this is very common. They do half an hour or quarter hour frequencies and shuffle based on load etc.


Reply
 John
(@John)
Joined: 6 years ago

Posts: 84

Agree with a previous poster. There are routes were cancellations are common. E.g., during peak times, LH flies FRA-BER every 30 min. They will often cancel a rotation at the last minute if demand is very low (presumably, in both directions).

This need not be an issue crew and equipment positioning wise. Sometimes, this might actually improve conformity with the plan for subsequent flights (if there would have been substantial delay). Other times, plane and all crew would have done the full rotation without any personnel change anyway which means that despite the cancellation, they all end up in the right place.


Reply
 Gray
(@Gray)
Joined: 11 years ago

Posts: 384

Having been on the wrong end of a "blue sky" canx on DL a few years back, it does happen...but generally it's going to be on a decently busy route (e.g. JFK-MCO in my case) where they have enough capacity to reaccommodate everyone same day. Zapping a flight at the last minute and stranding folks overnight is a great way to get the DOT asking lots of awkward questions.


Reply
(@Florian)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 131

SAS used to have flights between Oslo and Copenhagen on a nearly hourly schedule. If they were not full enough, one flight was canceled and everybody got rebooked to the next.

Just saved them them the flight CPH OSL and back.


Reply
Diamond
(@aerob13a)
Joined: 2 years ago

Member
Posts: 1673

On the 14th of January, 1982, an Air Florida flight only had two passengers out of BZE-MIA, both were British military personnel.
Clearly the civilian passengers coming up from Honduras and those who were due to travel from BZE, all chickened out due to the Air Florida crash in DC on the previous day.
The two British military personnel enjoyed the “extra personal attention” afforded to them by the three female FA’s.
One most pleasurable Boeing flight to remember, the chaps and FA’s all disembarked with big smiles on their faces.


Reply
(@morno)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 3

Short answer yes, airlines cancel emptier flights. Did it several times when acft had to b out of service. If acft had was going 2 b out say 6 hours, looked for another acft for that period which wud minimize disruptions, lo load factor being one.


Reply
(@George Romey)
Joined: 6 years ago

Posts: 1396

Generally no because the next flight for that airplane might be completely full. Airlines will cancel more empty flights in the event of weather where there are significant delays or that plane is needed for an aircraft out of service with a full load.


Reply
(@ConnGator)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 34

Was flying Philadelphia to Reading (PA) a few years ago on a puddle-jumper (8-seater, I think). Only two of us showed up at the gate and they said it was not profitable to fly. They told us to get car rentals.

Very annoying.


Reply
Diamond
(@uncleronnie)
Joined: 3 years ago

Member
Posts: 1233

Yup, this happens with Hawaiian 717s flying inter-island all the time. You go out with just 6 passengers onboard "Hey bra, have another POG on us 🙂 ", yet when you exit the jetbridge there are 100+ people ready to board the plane for its next hop back again.


Reply
Diamond
(@mike-c)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 343

Conversely, I've seen an extra departing flight on a quarter hour appear from nowhere.


Reply
(@IVO Sio)
Joined: 10 years ago

Posts: 33

It happen a lot in mainland China. Including Macau. The most famous one I will give to Air Macau.


Reply