In July 2021, Condor announced plans to refresh its long haul fleet with Airbus A330-900neos. In this post I wanted to take an updated look at that, as Condor has just taken delivery of its first of these jets, and the plane should enter service shortly.
Continue reading: Condor Refreshes Fleet With 16 Airbus A330-900neos
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
If they have a solid hard product and passenger experience, I'm sure they could do really well in some of Lufthansa's routes.
I also hope we might see them come to Orlando or Tampa again! Lufthansa operated their high density 747-400's daily to Orlando pre-pandemic, but now has an A330 on the schedule. There is definitely room for Condor to come in. Tampa seems less likely since LH began operating that route a few years ago, but I don't know if it's coming back (pre-pandemic it was with their Cityline A340-300).
Do you think there is any chance we might see them replicate any former Thomas Cook routes out of the UK?
A big fan of the a330-900neo, the only new build long haul aircraft with 2 seats next to the window in economy!
Airbus certainly is making deals on the A330-900 (NEO) given Air Asia's situation (they are a major customer and are in deep financial trouble) but the A330-900 is a very versatile and economical performer. If you have to pick only one widebody airplane, the A330-900 would have to come out at the top of the list.
As the A330CEO replacement cycle kicks it, the A330NEO will see plenty of interest.
Is this just wishful thinking?
The last time I flew condor was in the midst of the Tomas Cook bankruptcy nightmare. I remember back in September 2019 waiting, with everyone else at the Seattle terminal, and wondering whether the Condor plane was going to show up at the gate. Even the Condor flight crew seemed a little surprised when it did and actually had fuel. Then I sweated out my three weeks in Europe wondering if the return flight to Seattle was going to leave from Frankfurt or if I was going to be stranded like all of the Thomas Cook customers.
In all fairness, despite the out dated aircraft, the flights were great. I don't know who was happier to be flying, me or the crew. The service in business class was spectacular. I was very thankfully when the German government stepped up to the plate, more than once if I recall correctly, to save Condor. I just figured that this pandemic would be the death dagger for Condor.
Again is this just wishful thinking on Condor's part? Or have they suddenly found a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that is going to allow them the financial stability to update their fleet?
@Steve Germany effectively nationalized Condor after Thomas Cook going bust and is now selling it off. The investor provides 250 million euro for the refleeting. Thats only 19,2 millions per plane vs a list price of $296.4 millions. I very mouch doubt Airbus is willing to offer a 95% discount. So a sale and leaseback deal is probably involved.
Speaking of future strategy, the ability to compete with carriers like Lufthansa on long haul routes would heavily depend on the leasing rate. In normal times Lufthansa should have much lower capital costs as they own most of their fleet and enjoyed large rebates. With increasing competition by Lufthansa's new ultra-low-wage "Ocean" subsidiary on the same routes, Condor upgauging to larger jets is a puzzling move.
Condor currently has 15 767s and will reduce their fleet to 14 this autumn.
Therefore 13 as the current fleet size is wrong according to my knowledge
They had some interesting routes to the U.S. prior to Covid. The seasonal summer flight to BWI was actually pretty popular. I had a number of German friends that used it to get to back and forth to DC given the inexpensive old school business class that was often priced around $1500 R/T. A far cry from LH pricing out of Dulles. They said it was fine, nothing special, but got the job done.
I think there is broad consensus that leisure traffic will recover before corporate travel. This means Condor is positioned in a nice segment, for the current situation and the new planes will improve their product. BUT: The big mainline carriers will not sit and wait until corporate travel eventually recovers. The will also sind their planes to leisure destinations. So that niche becomes increasingly competitive. Also, it is quite seasonal, with very short peaks over Xmas and New Year, a few days over Eastern and a few weeks in summer, which causes capital utilization problems.
I think if they were to expand, the won't go after the business traffic but rather I could see them go for the 'traditional' business destinations that also see a lot of leisure traffic (e.g. New York, Los Angeles); similar to what Thomas Cook was doing before they went bankrupt.
REVIVAL . . .
Lucky's childhood airlines finally flying with all modern longhaul fleet again, wonder if he will take a window seat again on those new A330-900neo's? 🙂
GREAT choice CONDOR, even if i'm NO fan of that airline, i love the A330.
Looks a lot better than the Air France flight (777) we flew from CDG to MRU a few years ago in PE . The IFE was not operational.
For an 11 hour plus flight.
Upside was AF upgraded us on the return leg from CDG to YYZ to business.
it almost certainly won't be in condors config if you do the math on their fuel economy stats it only really works at 9 across
They're claiming European frontrunner in fuel efficiency not global. CEBU Pacific is doing 9 across but then the market is quite different. Condor is carrying German couples on holidays. CEBU pacific is carry Philippine folks like nurses, maids, hotel reception staff to jobs. There is a big difference in physical stature as well as price point.
Condor has had 16 767 (in FEB20), so this is a 1:1 replacement of the long haul fleet, which itself has grown significantly over the past 10 years.
Apart from that I don’t expect any shifts in routes - condor is mainly operating for German tour operators that want at least some level of competition against LHGroup.
I thought that Condor is owned by Lufthansa. When I flew to Anchorage in 2018, I thought that I credited it to Lufthansa Miles!!
Has ownership changed?
Condor has been owned by Lufthansa many many many years ago (at least 15 years). After then they have been overtaken from Thomas Cook. After the Thomas Cook bankruptcy in 2019, Condor was bailed out by german government and was looking for new owner since then. They have been overtaken now from Attestor, now being enabled to buy a new fleet.
So the "ownership of Lufthansa" alread ended 15 years ago or even earlier...
@never in doubt: sorry, but not if we talk about the air asia flatbed edition (2-2-2 in c & 3-3-3 in y). some rumours in germany say so. I myself definitely hope for a more advanced product…
Ich hoffe es werden Maktlücken erkannt und geschlossen. Zum Beispiel Flüge von Frankfurt auf die Philippinen. Die einzige Direktverbindung aus Europa gibt es bisher nur von London nach Manila durch Philipines Airline.
Flew Condor several times back in the 80s when they were all charter. Everyone got a camphor loaded hot towel on arrival in Europe from the States, it was delightful.
I think it would be a good idea if the British government mandated a similar practise to Germany, where BA has to provide European feeder service to Virgin long haul routes. Would reduce BAs unfair advantage.
Think they used to do that before the pandemic. Remember booking one from DUB to DEL with Aer Lingus and Virgin Atlantic on the same ticket. Shame really, I find it to be a better airline than British on that route
WON'T HAPPEN, Philippines are a tough market with too much competition with Asian & Middel East Airlines.
That's the reason, why CONDOR stopped flying to Phuket via Dubai too. (before Covid hit!) NOT WORTH IT.
... many moons ago!
2019, was when M&M announced NOT to cooperate with CONDOR anymore!
Ownership had NOTHING to to with earning Miles on M&M!
BIG DIFFERENCE . . .
CONDOR has a big feeder market in America with GOL and Alaska Airlines.
Thomas Cook, NEVER focused on selling anywhere else but in the UK!
CONDOR has good connection traffic via Frankfurt Hub from Spain, Africa and in Summer Season to Greece.
Thomas Cook was only a Point to Point Carrier with mostly focusing on UK Market, there flights couldn't even be booked on all mayor Reservation Systems worldwide!
Tampa is not flown by Lufthansa anymore! Now operated by cheap airline Eurowings Discover with constantly old planes from Edelweiss and SunExpress changing A330 all the time on that route.
Lufthansa is HISTORY on many routes to North America!
TPA, PHL, YYZ, YVR, PTY, MCO (actually, if you fly MCO now on LH flight number, you are LUCKY, as this route is now operated by new Finnair A350 with much better Business Class then Lufthansa ever had on any of there Group airlines!)
little correction to A330-900neos fleet size at CONDOR
As of a couple of weeks ago, CONDOR announced it will be 18!!! not 16 as they leased 2 additional A330-900new planes, joining there fleet as of 2024.
Where they are coming from was so far NOT published!
But the fleet size of A330-900neos will be 18!
"If you have to pick only one widebody airplane, the A330-900 would have to come out at the top of the list."
The 787-9 is laughing its ass off at that statement..... with of course, the numbers to back up its hubris.
Another updated post where we’re can’t really tell what the update is. I’ll repeat the request that posts be updated with new additions under a header of “update as of *date*”.
. . . as told before . . .
it;s NOT right!
CONDOR is getting 18!!!! A330-900neos NOT 16 as you always write here!
Just to keep things "straight" and in order.
Yes, that's how German's like it 🙂
Condor was my go-to airline in the late 80's, early 90's, because I had an agent who would book me multiple times one way MUC to GOI via Sharjah. Last time I flew them was 2018 to and from CFU, and they were extremely strict with their carry on limit of 18 pounds. Nearly everybody had to re-pack, which slowed check-in to an absolute crawl.