As an aviation geek,I love listening to air traffic control audio, and always enjoy the VASAviation YouTube channel, which does a great job coveringnoteworthy air traffic control interactions.
Continue reading: Angry Air Traffic Controller Yells At Pilots, Flips Out
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
It would be nice to know what the pilots were saying to ATC, clearly this is one side of the story! I hope someone can get hold of the full transcript.
Poor chump probably making $35 an hour with no pension while AA FAs just secured raises up to $90+ an hour and longshoremen just got em up to $60+ an hour.
Want better controllers, maybe try paying them better than flight attendants.
SlothBoy is absolutely right: "There’s a big difference between this and VFTW. VFTW is full of random clickbait about stupid nonsense."
Not sure how many FAs are making more than ATCs, but I fully agree that ATCs need *major* pay bumps. It should be a very highly competitive profession, with only the top of the top making it. The only way to make that happen is by paying much, much more money. With the near-misses that we've seen, this sort of investment is a no-brainer.
The US Northeast has an awful flaw. Confrontation and offense is a cultural norm.
Sure, other parts of the country have confrontational and offensive people too, but they’re considered abnormal. If you’re confrontational and offensive in the Northeast, you’re practically excused as behaving in a way that comports with local culture.
I hate it. I hate everything about the Northeast including the weather, the food, and the long flight to Hawaii (lol). Only good thing about this part of the country is the proliferation of top law firms with multi million dollar profits per equity partner.
"...the long flight to Hawaii..."
Never heard of Koh Samui?
NOBODY goes to Hawaii anymore, except for the poors.
I hate it too. NYC is garbage. Everybody is angry simply because they're having a bad day. Whether it's the weather, or figuratively being on top of each other in such a small, dense space. This is why I'll be moving out West. Better weather, calm people, good vibes, better airports.
That tone and volume is nothing out of the ordinary for the northeast corridor.....ever get shouted at by TSA at JFK?
Thanks for affirming my position, I guess?
Bottom 10% making around $36 an hour. Presumably as a contract tower, this would apply to the article in question. I said $35... so basically that realm.
Top 10% making $96 an hour...
These are controllers at the toughest facilities with the busiest and most complex traffic on the planet... and they are making *slightly more* than an experienced flight attendant at AA will soon be making.
Meanwhile the other 75-90% of controllers will be making less.
While I'm sure ATC pay looks appealing to much of the public, the public doesn't have context... that it just hasn't kept up with COL, or the aviation industry, or really... a lot of unionized industries.
Boeing, FAs, Pilots, TSA... all secured massive percentile based raises, and ATC is left in the dust because unlike most unions, we can't strike.
And after all that, you all (Lucky included) are more interested/invested in critiquing us than advocating for us.
It's utterly demoralizing.
So again, if you want better ATCS, pay them better.
It's a contract tower so it isn't a FAA employee. Not that is any consolation as there are still standards.... but you do see a lot of people who either got released by FAA or not selected by FAA at those places.
Kinda like the EMT Supervisor I did a ride-along with who kept telling me he really wanted to be a firefighter but kept failing the psych exam.
I appreciate that you agree.
Regarding FAs, I can only compare hourly rates... obviously there are a ton of other factors. ATC pensions, FAs aren't always on the clock even when they're working... they often only get 1,000 hours a year (VS ATC gets 2080 hours) etc.
But Ben has an article on the AA contract, and a 13th year FA will make $92 an hour.
The cap for any ATCS is ~$105 an hour. Only $13/hour more than those FAs.
And anybody who falls under "rest of U.S" locality bands would have to be at the highest levels for years on end to ever crack $90/hr.
I appreciate that you agree.
Regarding FAs, I can only compare hourly rates... obviously there are a ton of other factors. ATC pensions, FAs aren't always on the clock even when they're working... they often only get 1,000 hours a year (VS ATC gets 2080 hours) etc.
But Ben has an article on the AA contract, and a 13th year FA will make $92 an hour.
The cap for any ATCS is ~$105 an hour. Only $13/hour more than those FAs.
And anybody who falls under "rest of U.S" locality bands would have to be at the highest levels for years on end to ever crack $90/hr.
I'm not taking a stance on pay. Just wanted to put a link. For reference here is another link for flight attendant stats:
https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes532031.htm
aversion to conflict is an affliction of low-tier lawyers and seeing it embodied in partners reflects poorly on aspiring growth firms like Paul Weiss; you won't get anywhere in high status professional services like top law firms with this attitude
Conflict resolution is a skill. Conflict is not the same as confrontation.
Please do not confuse me (an individual) with Paul, Weiss (a firm).
I see.
Unfortunately those charts don't seem to offer much context about pay rates/hours worked, just how much income is taken in over the course of a year.
@Willy... probably past your bedtime.
How many flights to the Hawaiian Islands? How many to Samui? But no one goes to Hawaii?
Also, if you think you're that much in the know, you'd also know that Samui's heyday was 2+ decades ago, know it's just another Phuket. Still nice, but absurd to imply it's the "it" place.
Now about the video, the controller needs to be "coached". If it's a contract tower, the company will have other contracts that need to be protected... and just for common sense reasons.
The answer, as with increasing numbers of jobs in the US, is tipping. Waiters routinely make $45-plus an hour thanks to tips. Tips will save traffic controllers, make their jobs lucrative, and eliminate incidents of rage like the one in this article.
*spelling error.... "now"
And @Willy, I guess I didn't like your Hawaii comment. I'm very fortunate that I enjoy traveling the world several times a year...and even if coming from the most gorgeous beach and/or city, or both, I ALWAYS make Hawaii my final stop to just unwind...it's not for for just the "poor"...and it's a good thing that many can enjoy the paradise
@evilpoodle: you may indeed be onto something. A $1 per person "tip" per airline ticket for Air Traffic Controllers would actually cover the wage increases many of them would like to see.
Mistakes happen.
This pilot was a POS endangering 3 other a/c around him. Yoink his ticket.
ATC was preventing an in-air collission. His tone and his manner was appropriate for the risk, given that that STUPID ASS PILOT was not doing the right 360... and then when he did finally do it (without an ACK on the radio) he was being lazy about it.
When you fly, you're not just responsible for your safety, or your pax, you're also responsible for the safety of EVERY OTHER F*N LIVING THING IN ANY AIRCRAFT NEAR YOU.
If you haven't declared an emergency you WILL follow ATC instructions and if you're unable you better FN say "unable" and explain. This pilot was a POS.
It's so easy to be the victim. It's so easy to have Impostor Syndrome.
Don't blame the ATC controller because he's contract. He was preventing an in-air situation. His tone and manner were appropriate for the level of risk he was assessing and the lack of cooperation from ShitheadPilot.
If I screw up like that pilot I can expect the same. I won't be whining about it either nor ignoring ATC instructions on that right 360.
F all these self-entitled doctors who think because they can pay cash for a plane they can disregard ATC.
I know --you're thinking "Hey, how'd you know he's a doctor?" Because he's more important that responding to or following ATC instructions.
Also all those people "cleared to land" add the F****n runway to your radio call. If that's confusing go read the AIM again.
I just saw the title and knew it's gonna be US. The only place where people seem to think that shouting at others is a way to de-escalate a dangerous situation.
The risk that was involved is exactly the reason why his manner was absolutely inappropriate. Creating more stress and tension makes things worse, not better.
Usually this sort of behaviour happens at JFK although this guy does have a New York accent.
The author of this piece has obviously not worked live air traffic. Although you may not feel this is ideal, sometimes it’s the only way a pilot will listen. Walk a mile in a Controllers shoes before you even try to judge one, it’s real lives not a simulator!
I've heard it said that New Yorkers became nicer after 911. Not sure whether there's any truth to that, but I can say the city was more of a sewer in the 80's & 90's before Rudy has his time as Mayor.
Pilot here. There seemed to be lots of communications issues. Could there have been local interference blocking reception? That happens! Because multiple aircraft seemed to have missed calls. If you think it's always that way around airports you are wrong, maybe one missed call here and there but not like this so I suspect something else was going on. I've flown into DXR, I think I even recognize that controller's voice, and never had any issues even when it's been crazy busy (they usually have really good 100LL prices there). I wouldn't be so hard on the controller. When multiple aircraft aren't following instructions, for whatever reason, it can be a dangerous situation and yelling is one way to impart a sense of urgency. Controllers work for us, but the reality is that it's a cooperative venture where we all need to work together for all of us to remain safe. Also know that air traffic control staffing is really short right now and I wouldn't be surprised if that one controller was also handling ground and clearance delivery frequencies.
Commercial Pilot Here I gave up flying because I could not hear well even; though I passed the Class two medical. I knew that one missed call could put me and others in harms way. Flying meant too much to me to risk a problem and bring another black mark to aviation.
I think they all heard each other, it's those radio receivers on the ground that have limited range. In the youtube comments are some of the pilots that were flying that day that have their bits of info to contribute