$4K Business Class Ticket Vs. An Award: Which Is A Better Deal?

My wife and I did the ADD transit hotel stay pre-pandemic. It was great fun. We had a long enough layover that enabled us to book a tour of the city as well which I'd recommend. This was before the civil war of course - not sure whether things have changed.

I am surprised to read an article like that : to pay for J with Amex points ?!? Unlesss you have zillions of them or fly once a year - instead of transferring to get way bigger value ? 88k RT to Europe or RT to PHL for a little more …

@ben I have a question that I hope is not too personal, but...how do you continue to make enough miles and points if you DON'T buy revenue tickets? I don't quite get how you keep using miles and points that have to be replaced. It took me several years and a lot of money to accrue enough miles to cash in for 2 roundtrip tickets in BC, and now they're gone and I have to rebuild. Can you share your secret?

@ Stan P -- Well, I think I laid out the logic in this post. Redeeming Amex points for 1.54 cents each isn't a bad value, ultimately. And as I explained in the post, in the end I'd pay less for this than if I redeemed miles for the entire trip.

Kind of OT, well really OT I guess but I was wondering when you book (whether cash or points) is that tax deductible since you blog for a living?
Thanks

Lucky - if you’re going to consider an exotic routing to fly a different airline, check from Toronto to Johannesburg. It’s half the price of Miami and one stop in ADD on the A350 the way. You could also route it to include their fifth freedom route from MXP-YYZ.

Is it possible to say, book Ethiopian using the same "redeem AMEX points for a cash ticket" method?

Otherwise (in the very small chance this may work) is there is a way to book on Air Algerie's new (not daily) route to Johannesburg and leave out of Montreal using the same method?

Otherwise I have heard through the grapevine that a method some people also use is fly to South Africa is fly to Sao Paulo first and then make your way east across the Atlantic...

@ Dempseyzdad -- Totally a fair question. I earn miles through a variety of means. I apply for a lot of cards with big bonuses and maximize my credit card spending, I pay my income taxes and property taxes by credit card, I earn a fair number of miles through domestic flying, and I also sometimes buy miles strategically when it's a good deal. Admittedly I probably accrue more miles than the average person, but there are a lot of people who manage to take lots of premium international trips with a bit of effort.

I would think that when we sign up for new credit cards via Lucky's referral links (I have always done that because his advice over the years have saved me thousands of dollars, and enabled me and my family travel Business class overseas), he gets a referral bonus). Even regular folks like us can get referral bonus (ranging from 10-20k per approved application) if we get our family members to use our special link which typically our credit card companies email us.

Whether you like it or not, Lucky, unfortunately almost nothing you review these days is unique and have been extensively reported on by blogosphere. Don't overthink it, majority of people read this blog not because it's exclusive content. (No offence intended, simply reflection of current state of affairs).

When I first got into miles and points (thanks to this blog) I made my biggest airfare purchase: roughly $4k for JL J RT in Apex Suites JFK-NRT, paid for with the Citi AAdvantage Executive and credited to AA. This helped knock out 40% of the 100k mile signup bonus minimum spend, easily got me to re-qualify for AAdvantage Plat (back when it was worth something and stickers could get you upgrades on most routes) and I netted a good five-figure amount of miles for the round-trip itinerary itself (which I used toward my first CX F redemption a few months later). Certainly wasn't easy to pull the trigger on such a large spend but I like to think it balanced out nicely with the returns. And it was my first experience with a lie-flat long-haul product, so I was quite pleased during the journey.

"The reality is that I’ve reviewed the Qatar Airways premium experience to no end, as has the rest of the blogosphere."

I read this around 15 minutes ago and have spent the past 15 minutes on aa.com trying to find a different itinerary (to QSuites) before my trip in February.

@ Steve -- Wow, the Ethiopian fare is much better, as I can do YYZ-JNB via ADD for under $2,400 (USD). Interestingly it's not bookable through Amex Travel at that price, so that would have to be a "true" cash fare. Hmm...

Just book it with Skypesos. I think round trip based on the monthly devaluations is now about 5,000,000 😉

Call Amex and they can maybe book it. Had it happen a while back on a fare and when I called they could book it even though it didn't show online

It's very timely you posted this as I just booked our return for 2 people from SE Asia SGN-HND-JFK in April for $2kpp on ANA including The Room. I couldn't find anything remotely worth booking with miles on any program but this cash deal was so worth it. Will credit to Aeroplan as we're not Star Alliance flyers (based in ATL). There were other options like Qatar (around $2600) and Korean (around $3k) as well. Sometimes cash is king. Also booked on Rent Day for 16k Bilt Rewards.

Lucky, I wouldn’t think twice about passing on the opportunity to fly ”an international flight … to review an interesting product”. You’re both fathers now, and you’ll have to make decisions based on that family dynamic. I’d view the flights for this trip not as review flights, but as time with your husband together and as an efficiency to get back home for family responsibilities. Also, you’re hitting it hard and fast on diverse review trips with lots of content. Give yourself a break.

Of the three options, I’d look at Qatar for a great inflight product and total cost.

Lastly, have you looked at flying south from MIA through GRU to JNB (via LATAM and/or South African Airways…? ) That would be an efficient and interesting way to fly from Miami.

From what I understand, you need an embassy emitted transit visa to go through Algeria, so not a simple and easy process, even if Air Algerie has good prices from Montreal to South Africa in J class

Just wondering for a Ethiopian award booking why Aeroplan, when Turkish Miles and Smiles charges 67.5k miles each way in business class (assuming have enough transferrable citi or capital one miles) for this routing, with reasonable fees. Just did this last year for NYC -> India for 52.5k points each way plus about 50 dollars in tax/fees

In this situation with two options of not-so-seat redemptions in J, this is when I would fly economy :p but I'm also not traveling with a baby so I understand that for you that may not work

Personally I would reschedule the trip to early March, buy the ticket on Qatar, and accrue the miles in the new AAdvantage year. That would be a nice start to earning loyalty points in 2024.

@ Luke -- Have never really considered Miles & Smiles for partner redemptions, but I probably should. I assume you had to book this by phone? If so, how was the experience? Also, you say the fees were low. I currently see carrier imposed surcharges of $420 one-way. Were you not charged those when redeeming through Turkish?

Lucky can get there via Luanda? Unlucky more like…..

Or ANA would be 104k in biz for the RT. I've booked that before for ET biz to JNB. I think that the fees were something like $240.

Yes has to be by phone, and some CSR's can be interesting with competence, about one third to half of them will say "why are you calling Turkish to book with some other airline". But with right agent they can put in a 2 to 3 day hold on a award seat which should give enough time to transfer the points. Have used them for several different bookings both domestically and internationally (United for Hawaii and London, Ethiopian and Lufthansa for USA/India).

Just pulled up my email from last year from Turkish and particular routing last year of EWR -> ADD (with same plane stop in Lome on the way) -> BOM on Memorial day weekend in 2023 cost exactly $50.70 in fees and in reverse direction that was for Delhi to EWR on same airline was $82.29 in fees, in additional to the miles for business class award seat (105k roundtrip, great sweet spot for India). When calling to inquire guess they would let you know the exact total fees and required miles for JNB and then can decide about putting seat on hold and booking.

Yeah, I am very curious about this (and agree about applying through OMAAT links since he got me into this in the first place and in my view is basically the best overall in the game) -- I assumed that the referral links for a commercial blogger instead generate cash payments, but I have always noticed View from the Wing talks about having outrageous mileage balances (but he also travels a lot for work) so I'm not sure...

Personally, After flying more than 30 segments on QATAR Business, I am searching for other options due to their bait and switch on their aircrafts. I have lounge access due to one world status, so I can book any light fare and get lounge access, this does mean paying for selecting your seat $100+ each segment. After paying them $300-400 for seat selection, the QSUITE you paid for is swapped to the 777-300 with no aisle access for WINDOW. So, you get their oldest plane, and you do not get your money back. You will find out of this change, sometimes while at the gate. The disappointment is tremendous, and you get to let it sink in for the 15 hour flight. If the swap was to the 350-900 or any airplane with an all aisle access, I would see it as slight downgrade; but that 777-300 is severely dated. Last trip we were taken out of QSUITE 2 times, both last minute.

Is a Azul + SAA combo plausible?

FLL/MCO-VCP seems to be going for ca. 2200€ ow (not cheap, I know). It would be nice to see how SAA is faring post-bankruptcy and having started to re-establish their long-haul network. Is there award availability on any program for your dates in SAA J GRU-JNB? If not, that seems to be running for 1700€ ow.

You could look into spending the night in Sao Paulo if taking the FLL flight (or MCO two days before). Palacio Tangara (Oetker Collection) is an oasis amongst the chaos that downtown SP can be and imo the best hotel in SP and potentially Brazil (though not a points hotel... in which case the JW Marriott is a solid option and there's also a Grand Hyatt, no idea how good it is though)

I have to say that using AMEX MR cash redemptions has been the number one way I get the flights, products, and (direct) routes I want. That being said, I will always do a cursory check against other mileage programs just to be sure. But to get what you actually want, especially when award space is scarce for two people, sometimes it is just worth "paying" with points. This is especially true around holidays and busier times - when you can't just roll the dice on award space. And as you still earn redeemable miles - you can use the miles later for shorthaul last minute flights that are expensive and annoying. Another use is to fly friends/family out to visit me using the cache of miles earned (they appreciate the "free" economy flight) and then they buy me dinner in my own city - and I don't burn vacation days to go see them.

Although I didn't pay cash for either ticket, my husband and I are flying separately to Kuala Lumpur in a few weeks because we both had different definitions of the "best" flight. I know other people would argue that the time in-flight is a good way to spend time together, but realistically I spend most of my time on my laptop and my husband spends most of his time sleeping, with only 2-3 hours (out of 15) actually spent interacting during meal service or whatever. Seems like a no-brainer to make both people happy in their own way.

We rarely sit next to each other. People are always offering to switch seats so we can sit together and I just say "we've been next to each other for the best part of 40 years so I think we can handle a few hours apart."

Here's the main factor you haven't mentioned. If you buy the $4k ticket and have to cancel it, you're stuck with a credit you have to use on that airline in a year or so. That can be pretty hard to do for people who don't travel a lot. The points tickets have very low cancellation fees, and the worst that happens is sometimes you have points stuck at an airline for a while.

Another is that to get those best prices you have to fly RT and I often want to fly in and out of different airports. In almost all cases one way reward tickets are half a round trip. But not the case for buying international business class tickets.

Both really valid points

You might look at flying through Brazil, which none of the of the carriers or search engines like Google will suggest. (You'll probably need to break the fare.)

A few years ago the husband and I were headed from SAN to JNB -- my seat was revenue, covered by work; I flew AA/BA through LHR
For his we wanted to use miles for business, but the taxes and BA's "fuel" surcharges were almost $2k roundtrip. Instead, I ticketed him SAN-LAX-GRU on AA, and GRU-JNB on South African. The miles were slightly fewer than going via Europe, and the surcharges were barely noticeable.

What's more, his door-to-door time was almost exactly the same as mine, except he left and arrived a couple hours later.

Why are you going to Johannesburg instead of Capetown? Jo-burg is not really a place you want to visit.

Which AMEX do you have that gives a 35% refund on miles?

Always good to know all the ways for us to get to our destinations. You never know what new promotions will make one more attractive than the other. One year I happened upon a miles and cash option on a Marriott property in lima that was significantly cheaper (by > 50%) than points alone or cash alone. I suspect it was a software error but I benefited from it.

Keep us posted on what deal you do!!

Business Platinum

I think there much be referral bonuses. And I agree to helping Ben out.

I was wondering how I got Star Alisnce Gold when all I did was transfer 300K to SQ for SYD SiN LHR a year ago. Looked all over SQ site to learn with no luck. But Google search turned up article by Ben on transfer 5-1 for status. Since I hope to fly SQ suites again I may transfer enough to maintain Gold. Nice for domestic United Club access and

Amex business platinum

A) every time you see something your have to pay, even if it charges you x% of fees for credit card payment, pay with card. But it only applies when you are primarily looking to use points to get premium cabin tickets. If you are looking to book econ for many people (ex, a family of 4), vs biz for 2, don't pay the fees.

B) start a business. One you have a business, what you spend will end up earning you money (supposedly). Trust me, you will have non stop opportunities to spend money on your card. But don't start a business just to spend to earn points.

C) Spend money. Sadly, this is actually the most legitimate way to earn more points. Strictly speaking, the card issuers can afford to reward you with points because they can make money from you (us). If you don't spend, and they can't make money, the whole reward ecosystem would collapse. That said, you can spend your money strategically. Often, that means signing up for programs that should earn you more points than normal. For example, over Christmas, I saw a deal to sign up for a VPN service gain Rakuten that would earn 90 points per dollar. That's a better deal than many airlines buy miles program.

Yea

He has zillions. I’m sure all his business expenses go on cards. Which is smart.

Virgin and Qatar on a revenue ticket any day over Ethiopian award space. Ethiopian has been the worst business class experience I have had. And that is without factoring in the food poisoning I ended up with!!!!!

This time Ben faces an interesting real traveler challenge. Rather than focusing on "product X" with the origin, destination and day being flexible, Ford and him need to be at a specific destination at a specific day without being exhausted from multiple connections.

I have had a look at the "pay with points" airfare myself. When the cash fare is reasonable, it looks like a good alternative to traditional mileage tickets. They give a lot of flexibility, the drawback is the cancellation policy as @Cindl had pointed out. As the mileage redemption rates have increased over the years, there are fewer and fewer sweet spots; those tend to be hard to find for a given travel schedule.

Ben, please share which booking you end up with. It could be a great learning experience for all of us.

The other option, if you are looking at a revenue ticket is to look at consolidators.

I live in London UK, my parents in Edmonton and my boyfriend in Malaga. Depending upon where I am coming from there are connections and I have had some amazing business class fare deals.
Often with multiple air alliances, slightly weird itenaries.

Particularly last minute, I booked LHR-YEG ( with a stop in YYC) --YEG --AGP ( with a stop in LIS) back to LON on the 10th of December for travel starting on the 14th for 2200 GBP. All in J which to my mind is pretty good value when I am paying on my own dime

I used to fly JNB GRU a couple of times per year coming from SE Asia. It was very convenient and I enjoyed the South African flights. But I think that route has fewer options now.

I think you should pay for a ticket and review it based on the cost of the ticket and if you would rate the experience / value positive or negative when comparing the cost monetarily versus with points / miles. It would be interesting to see if you would review the airline the same, worse or better when it hits your bank account instead of your mileage / points accounts.

Since pre-Covid days, good partner redemptions for international partners of Alaska are scarce to non-existent. It was somewhat straightforward to book a multi-continent, multi-country trip with redemptions.

The alternative I have found helpful is to lock in separate one way redemptions and then book paid fares on Cathay Pacific or Singapore Air to Australia, as an example, departing from Japan. The benefit of paid fares is accruing EQMs and miles. The class of fare bonuses plus elite bonuses replenish miles spent and earn good EQM. I'm not into leveraging credit card points from multiple cards for redemptions. It's more than I can keep track of.

Agree on the family dynamics thing. I’m married to a road warrior and when the two kids were young this was not easy with all the work travel. (Both times my husband went away two weeks after the babies were born, for two week period).

Suffice to say that I AND my mother bought up the kids! Of course the money is good and it’s good if someone is good at their job. What I’m saying is the aggro that builds up for the one staying home can be cumulative and the travelling partner may not even notice. But believe me it’s REAL!!!

This is a real challenge that many people face because the cash price is reasonable. I think you should consider other methods to book this ticket. What about the pricing for cash and points via Chase? What about points via the airlines that give good redemption rates on partners in other alliances? Furthermore, I think you really need to consider the world situation. There are places I am not sure I would voluntarily connect in at the moment. One huge reason to use points is devaluation though although credit card points face less of a problem with this.

Have you checked the Alaska earn rate on that paid Qatar flight?