For the outbound portion of my quick trip to Germany, I flew Lufthansa's new Boeing 787-9 business class from Detroit to Frankfurt. This isn't Lufthansa's new Allegris business class, but rather is an interim new business class product. Lufthansa opportunistically picked up five additional Boeing 787s during the pandemic, which were intended for China's Hainan…
Continue reading: Review: Lufthansa Business Class 787 (DTW-FRA)
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That's a horrible flight time. Who can sleep on a flight that departs before 5 pm? A departure at 6 or 7 pm would be much better, especially since it would allow passengers to work a full day or have a full day of meetings in Detroit. The only reason Lufthansa offers this flight is the car industry.
The link to the DTW Lufthansa lounge is broken, and the review has disappeared.
A month or so ago flying ATL-FRA in J at least a few people used half of their mouthwashes and then returned the half used bottle back into the lav holder. Absolutely disgusting.
So, how does it work when an airline buys some 787-9s that they didn't previously have? I assume they have to train their pilots and certify them on this aircraft?
Yes, they can also transfer some from other planes. In the case of LH, they are getting new 787s anyway this year.
I've always wondered the same thing. That flight lands between 11pm and midnight Detroit time, so most people will have trouble falling asleep for a long period of time. Why do airlines operate many of these short transatlantic flights so early in the day? They try to have them land at their hubs around 6am, which I assume is so they can catch early connections and have a full day at their destination. But is that really worth for a passenger if they cannot sleep on the first overnight flight?
Or maybe this is beneficial for those in Economy. I assume it's relatively easy to stay up during that flight, and the go to sleep when you land in Frankfurt (or wherever your final destination is). But on the other hand, that is horrible for jetlag.
It's a flight time Lufthansa has used for years and according to government data (T100) it routinely has load factors above 90%, so people like it. Who cares why Lufthansa operates it - it does well.
And it's not the worst flight time. United has a 2PM flight or so from Chicago to Frankfurt. Lufthansa has a flight from New York to Frankfurt at 3:30/4PM. The benefit of these early flights? You land in FRankfurt at 5 or 6 in the morning and can be most anywhere in Europe by 9 or 10 AM. Pretty popular and convenient for many travelers.
Also, Delta operates like 4 flights a day from Detroit to Amsterdam, and their first flight of the day is a 3:30PM / 4:00PM or so. Again, this facilitates connectivity in Europe. And it's pretty popular.
"It's a flight time Lufthansa has used for years and according to government data (T100) it routinely has load factors above 90%, so people like it."
It's only at 90%+ because it's basically the only non-Sky Team flight from Detroit to Europe.
Ben never goes for the beef fillet which I had at 40 to 1 odds. I gave the tortellini an outside chance at even money but of course the heavy favorite fish entree dish didn’t disappoint .
About the crying toddler - sometimes there is nothing the parents can do. Wait and see when you start to travel long distance with your boy.
Lufthansa looks perfectly mediocre, as usual. I find it entertaining that they insist on the wired headphones attached to the seat on this plane as well. I’ve always found that a strange quirk…
Despite the mediocre service, it’s exciting to see that the seats are at least starting to catch up to 2015!
No one thinks their kid will ever be like that. Until their kid is exactly like that.
Looking forward to Ben’s first review in that situation!
The link in the review itself is broken, but you can still access the lounge review via the "More From This Trip" section at the top of the page.
I often flew LH JFK-FRA at 4 PM. The flight usually operated on time with an early arrival, basically 10:30 PM NYC time. I made good use of this arrival with the help of early check in at Hotels nearby. I actually sleep better in a bed as opposed to a business seat.
I also am aware that this type of early arrival offers a plethora of possible connections.
Ben's comment about the lady who was excited to be flying in business class for the first time and planned on not sleeping, brought back memories of my first trip to LHR in Upper Class back in 2001. The FA asked us if we had been on this flight before, and I replied that we are Virgin virgins! Back then they took appointments for a massage and/or a manicure and asked if we wanted to be awakened at that time. I said that I would probably be awake the whole time considering the bar and eat anytime menu. Wow, I didn't even want to get off the plane. Then came the arrivals lounge!! What more to ask? As Ben said, "It's always nice to see people in premium cabins who aren't jaded." Now, our hire car drives up to the Upper Class Wing at LHR and I'm still NOT jaded as I appreciate the great service.
Lucky, did you had the chance to peek into Premium Economy ? I am wondering if it is the standard Lufthansa seat or an inherited product from Hainan Air.
The breakfast looked very tasty, at least for my preferred breakfast dishes. Thank you for the detailed review.
It all looks nice, but also totally ordinary. In other words, LH in a nutshell. I love the new aircraft. And those seats are awesome if I wind up on one of those 787s. But there’s absolutely nothing exciting about it.
And I loved how you described the food because that’s how I feel about every meal I have on LH (whether business or economy). I can name a dozen airline that served me better and I don’t fly (does anyone?) as much as you.
It looks like Ben likes LH pretty much. I usually share his airlines taste, except for LH. Look at the food! It's terrible. To cross the Atlantic, AF, AF and again AF please.
I just can’t get over the fact that I flew in 6A on the exact same airframe (D-ABPD) in December. We had our butt in the same seat… this is my closest contact with royalty.
Honestly Ben, you really need to rethink your rating system. How was this flight, from your description the epitome of "just fine" or "decent" a 4,5/5 or 9/10? It really does not make sense.
+1 ... Never judge the parents with the toddler!! 😀 They are already exhausted before even getting on the flight (getting a toddler(s) from home, through check-in, security, hanging around an airport etc., all out of the usual routine... its a marathon. The kid is probably overtired, overstimulated etc. ... If only there were as many people who would offer to help parents on a flight as there are those who stare at parents struggling)
Unless the rating might not be independent, those many posts about shithansa are a bit strange... I avoid It like the plague...
And Swiss, and British too...maybe even SAS...heck if Austria had better seats I'd recommend them too over Lufthansa at this point.
My point was and is that Lufthansa can get away with having a horrible departure time from Detroit because it's the only non-Sky Team option. I'm willing to bet that the single biggest customers on this flight don't care because Frankfurt and Detroit are the O&D. I suspect very few of the corporate customers are connecting on beyond Frankfurt. And they're certainly not connecting in Detroit on United.
I don't think I've ever seen him share any photos or impressions of a PE product while doing a review of business class. A lost opportunity for him, really.
@InternationalTraveler Based on other LH 787 reviews, it looks like Lufthansa uses the inherited PE Economy from Hainan, which is the (ubiquitous) Collins Aerospace MiQ. The rest of Lufthansa's widebody fleet has the ZIMMagic seat model.
https://www.zim.aero/featured_item/zimmagic/
Lufthansa's Allegris Premium Economy will get the ZIMPrivacy seat, which you'll already find on Swiss.
@Scudder Sorry to be "that guy" but Ben actually has a few reviews where he takes a lot behind the curtain at Premium Economy/Economy. Off the top of my head I can think of his United 767-300 Polaris review from 2019.
I think previously Ben has explained that the ratings are based on expectations. A "just OK" QR/CX/SQ flight where the expectations are higher would rate lower than the same service etc on LH for example where one has lower expectations.
It’s timed for German passengers who work in the car industry. Quick business trip to Detroit and back. They don’t adjust to Detroit time, but keep their German time rhythm. So for them the time works perfectly well.
Hi Ben, are Lufthansa J awards not showing up anymore through united OR aeroplan programs? I used to see several seats for flights departing 3-5days out (SFO to BLR) couple of weeks ago but don't see any of it now. Do you know if anything has changed?
That tuna dish is a joke, like 4 tiny cubes of tuna.
Also, great LH now has a product that leading airlines had 5-7 years ago. Bizarre it gets a 4.5 rating, just because it is a step-up from their inferior regular product.
Seriously I always see really good beef/lamb dishes and he always goes with the most unappetizing option. Nailing red meat on a plane is very difficult, but some airlines do it really well - my friend at Delta said it's all about the oven temperature and timing. I try and avoid fish on a plane - same reason I never bring fish leftover to work to reheat....makes the whole place smell like a darn fish market.
Thank you so much for this detailed report. We're taking the same flight in 4 days- our first time to ever fly business class!