A couple of weeks ago I wrote about how Lufthansa Group airlines were planning on changing how passengers are communicated with, and this change is now being implemented.
Continue reading: Lufthansa Group Goes Gender Neutral, No More “Ladies And Gentlemen”
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I don’t know how I feel about all this gender neutral direction, in London some of the pedestrian crossings have become gender neutral, toilets in one of the newer buildings I visit have GN washrooms, I tried explaining to my elderly parents but they don’t understand really and I think that goes for their entire generation, as an ex military man I struggle with the concept at times but fully understand the World is evolving.
I'm all for gender neutral pronouns, but I'm also against the term "ladies and gentlemen" because those terms suggest that today's flyers are honorable, chivalrous people deserving respect. Anyone who's spent 20 minutes in a lounge or watched a boarding gate scrum knows thats just not the case.
Complete b*****s. You can’t say anything now without someone being offended and then trying to claim emotional damages. Ladies and gentlemen, hello folks etc etc , is polite and not offensive.
Should be fun to see what they come up with, as virtually all nouns has a masculine and feminine form in German. So even if they just use the word 'passengers', they would need to pick a gendered form, or use both, but either way neither option is grammatically speaking neutral. Don't take this as an opposing view to the change, just a musing on the linguistic challenge.
As for gender neutral bathroom mentioned above, has anyone noticed that airplane lavatories have been gender neutral ever since planes had lavatories? It is not really an issue to have gender neutral lavatories. Or so far it has not been 🙂
How about we just go with "welcome aboard XX and XY chromosome carriers... Please take your seats."
Much like Icarus flying too close to the sun, your argument lacks any substance to hold it together.
"Welcome aboard homo sapiens" Wait, what if there are service animals onboard?
Just go with "Welcome aboard, you lot."
Overall, this is welcome.
I don't mind the ladies and gentlemen, although I can see some people finding it non-inclusive. In America you have the all-inclusive "folks", but not sure about British English or other languages.
While this is well-meaning, we simultaneously have to be careful not to go all woke-crazy on airlines that don't switch. 'ladies and gentlemen' is such a commonly used term, that continuing to use it needn't always mean discrimination, let alone exclusion.
Progress moves forward --not reverse and not stuck in neutral . Welcome aboard World .. to the golden year of 2021 .
How about Welcome aboard dear passengers/customers/guests? or Welcome aboard, all.
Very good point- many languages have gender-specific terms or endings for even neutral words (like passengers).
I actually have had the luxury of using a gender specific lavatory at 30000 feet. It was Interjet (the Mexican now-defunct airline) which had a woman's only lav. on their A320s.
Equality moves forward Cam , not reverse and not stuck in neutral . Whatever it takes to level the playing field -- then that is what it takes . "Fasten your seatbelt and raise your tray table to it's upright and locked position for takeoff"
You are lying to yourself or a fool.
While I could not care either way about the announcement, there is ZERO chance someone is going to pick one airline over another over 'ladies and gentlemen' vs. 'good evening.
This is an issue for languages like german and portugues (my native language) in which virtually every noun has either masculine or feminine gender, and sometimes netural language is really mocked and banalised by people who do not fully understand it.
But the thing is, even though plural nouns have genders as well (in portuguese most plurals are always masculine), they can refer to a collective of subjects of all genders, so, for instance, the portugese word for passengers (masculine) can be used to refer to male, female and non-binary passengers, without disregarding traditional grammar.
There are many other ways of adressing people in a gender-neutral way in languages like portuguese, spanish, italian, german, etc. with a simple change of words, and what Lufthansa is doing is a great example.
It's more of a matter of giving another meaning to already existing terms and words than modifying the whole language - which most people complain about.
It is time that all of these inherently sexist and racist European languages are banned and eliminated from the world. They are beyond salvage.
I call on all the progressive scholars to develop a totally new language that meets the requirements of today’s woke culture. It must not any similarity to any existing language used anywhere in the world. To pick one existing language to build on would be the worst form of cultural appropriation and cannot be permitted.
As soon as this new language is developed all currently spoken and written language will be banned under penalty of having your tongue or hands removed, depending if the usage was written or spoken.
Give the high caliber of the woke academy, this new language should take only a few months to create. Only then an we truly move forward
Absolutely crazy. Will make sure I will not fly either of this airlines in the future. If someone had a problem with the gender identification, their need to drop their undies and look down. Very simple. Male/female, nothing in between. Period.
You know some people are born with an extra X or Y right? This is discrimination! [doge]
“Hello motherf***ers” would be a great gender neutral greeting. However, it might offend any incestuous folks on board, especially on any flights between certain US states 😉
I can honestly say I often decide between competing products based in part on the moral attitudes of the companies offering the products, and I’m not a fool. You’ve done the same if you’ve ever boycotted a product on moral grounds. It’s actually a surprisingly effective way of making incremental moral progress in a market economy.
And this is a nice micro-step forward. A stunningly large percentage of people have ambiguous chromosomal sex markers or ambiguous secondary sex characteristics. Many of these intersex people, and many other people cool enough not to have a clearly gendered mental life, rightly identity as non-binary.
Sex ambiguities are likely present in all beings with sex, and are probably as old, or I guess probably older, than (differentiated) gametes, given that the evolutionary jump from asexual reproduction probably wasn’t instantaneous. It’s a little ridiculous that it’s taken all languages I’m familiar with this long to come up with an accurate way of representing this ancient feature of the natural world.
I imagine being non-binary and hearing Lufthansa’s old announcement might be like being American and hearing an announcement “welcome all Filipino and Paraguayan passengers.” I’d be like, what the hell? And if I were non-binary, this would absolutely affect my purchasing decisions. Frankly it does anyway, even being the boring person I am, go Lufthansa.
Right. And as an American black citizen, I'm effing sick and effing tired of it.
It is sad and pathetic that a respectable manner of addressing people will be disregarded as it might offend a very small number of people who might look for a way to be offended by it.
Should be interesting to what happens with this silly gender-neutral movement; in those countries where their language nouns are all gender specific. (Maybe the Germans should preface every noun with "Das" LOL!...But "Das" is more seen as 'neutered', than 'neutral'!)
I personally am not offended by Ladies and Gentlemen, though I also appreciate that some feel excluded by this, so it makes sense if it falls out of fashion. In NL, for several years the trains have been using, 'Beste reizigers' or 'Dear Travellers' as the replacement, and this seems to be quite a reasonable change for airlines.
It’s the right thing to do, even though German isn’t exactly an easy language to turn gender neutral (masculine generics, participles, etc.)
There is a ton of options to choose from in German which I'd appreciate to hear depending on the circumstances:
- Mahlzeit zusammen (around lunch time but with potential for 24/7)
- Moin (for flights from Northern Germany)
- Servus (for flights from Southern Germany)
- Helau (during carnival season especially for flights from DUS, FRA and CGN)
- Seid ihr gut drauf??? (Eurowings heading for holiday destinations)
But what if you are not having a good day, afternoon or evening? What if you don't want to be happy? I think grunting should just be the default option.
Who knew it would be so easy to replace 200,000 years of human historical advancement in a snap.
"Gäste" is plural of the masculine noun "Gast". You'd have to go for "Fluggäst:innen" (yes, Gästin does exist as the feminine form, I was surprised too) and risk offending those who do not identify as male or female. It's a can of worms.
Cannot understand WHY and if this helps promo. Definatelly is just another b...s that has nothing to do with aviation industry. Gender remains SAME even if ID changes or even after a " surgery gender change" the NEW gender will still be a GENDER.
Only idiots could not UNDERSTAND and unfortunately when dealing with idiots you LOOSE ALWAYS!!!
Lol. I wanted to wrote same. With the period. Its simple as that. Other is in your head.
Excuse me, but I find your usage of the term everyone to be offensive. I do not identify as a person. You should say everyone and everything
It appears the bigots of OMAAT are more offended by this change than any non-binary person ever was with the previous greeting.
I support this wholeheartedly. It makes some people happy and harms no one. I do have one question; however...
How will passengers in premium cabins be addressed by FAs throughout the flight? Will they be allowed to assume Mr. or Ms. based on the gender chosen at booking? I suppose they might ask how they may address you.
I am sincerely disappointed by the utter contempt for empathy communicated by so many individuals. Just because you feel comfortable and at home with your physical sexual characteristics and the gender norms assigned by society doesn't negate or change the fact that others simply do not. Sympathizing or understanding the reason a behavior makes someone uncomfortable isn't a prerequisite for kindness. Perhaps you could just take the mental anguish and enormous burden that trangender and non-binary individuals express at face value? In this instance, Lufthansa are instituting a change that has zero impact (positive or negative) to most, and a non-trivial impact to a few.
Gender identity and sex are not the same thing, but I'm also stunned by the fundamental lack of knowledge folks seem to have about the nuances of reproductive biology and genetics. Physical sexual characteristics are driven by genetics, and like nearly all genetic traits, there are an endless number of variations. Google "Double Y" syndrome or Klinefelter's. The majority of individuals with chromosomal abnormalities have no identifiable physical differences, and are thus only identified via genetic testing. Even then, roughly 1 in every 1500 babies require a medical consult from a sex differentiation specialist at birth to *attempt* to establish their biological sex, which often results in a judgment call due to contradictory evidence in either direction.
Look, I'm genetically male. I identify as male. I love my penis. But even then, it doesn't require an unusual amount of imagination to consider what it might be like if I didn't. Just be kind.
I was a Customer Service Manager (onboard manager) with Qantas until 2007.
Our welcome announcement began: “Hello everyone” well before I retired from flying.
not really. esperanto has gendered nouns. there are allowances for neither male nor female, but they're unofficial (you know, like many living languages ... )
Then you're completely out of touch with reality and millions of people don't identify as male or female. Fine, don't fly with them. I am sure they won't miss you.
Well-said. People spend so much time hating they forget that it takes more energy to hate than love and at least accept. Ridiculous. These comments are making me hate people even though I know not all people are this hateful and ignorant.
Totally Pathetic Gender Neutral Idiots............... The world has better things to do than worry anout this S@#% in our daily lives. I refuse to pander to a person that can't figure out what they are!! You are born a certain gender..... If you want to change it fine, but don't expect the whole world to bend, twist or gyrate their lives to have to try and figure out what you want to be called. Unic, Cyborg??? How about "It" as in Cousin It. I hope I'm never forced to gender neuter my life!
The amount of people offended by a change made to make people feel more included is ridiculous. Most of who are complaining in this comment section wouldn’t have noticed a single change in the speeches. How does it have any influence on you how people decide to identify? Imagine if you just embraced the diversity we have on our planet instead if getting angry about it, you’d be having so much more fun.
I think this is a great way to help make our non-binary/gender non-confirming neighbors feel more welcome. I don’t get why people get so up in arms, how does an announcement being changed affect you? It doesn’t change who you are or how others see you, just a sign of more accepting times. Things change, it’s how it is. Kudos to Lufthansa for making the small but significant change. It may just be a phrase, but remember: not everything is catered to you and sometimes things are not about you. Happy Pride month everyone!
It is exciting to witness how some 3% minority is driving majority of population into a submissive position.
"Meanwhile I know this means a lot to the small percentage of people who are directly impacted by this"
Less than 1% of the population?
"A stunningly large percentage of people have ambiguous chromosomal sex markers or ambiguous secondary sex characteristics. Many of these intersex people, and many other people cool enough not to have a clearly gendered mental life, rightly identity as non-binary."
How large are we talking here?
Next thing you know, we will be forced to call our mothers “birthing parents.” Happy birthing parent day. Any ideas about what they will call fathers?
Maybe this airline would also prefer, " fellow comrade"...this woke crap is a joke.
It's a shame what you're doing! Disrespectful to the regular people. PC to be it's not nobel.
"but remember: not everything is catered to you and sometimes things are not about you"
Shouldn't this apply to non-binary people as well then?
I think it's a pleasant, friendly, and inclusive change. It will likely spread to other parts of our lives. I can remember the first time seeing pronouns after someone's name, thinking "this is... what? Too much?" And then I realized that it really wasn't a big deal, didn't affect me, and there was nothing wrong with it. Also, it eliminated confusion.
I much prefer "hello everyone, " "Liebe Fluggäste" to the rather creepy greeting I've been getting on Southwest. "Hello, friends." It sounds just a little too much like a proselytizer or a multi-level marketer.
But there is a much greater benefit to the change in courtesy titles. We can get rid of "Ma'am!" This word always seems to be used in the most aggressive (or at least passive-aggressive) tone by airline staff." "Ma'am! MA'AM! MA'AM! I'm going to need you to calm down. Ma'am! You purse sticking out 2 mm from underneath the seat. MA'AM! An eighth of your left nostril is exposed through your mask. MA'AM! MA"AM! MA'AM!!!"
Come to think of it, "Ladies and Gentleman" is sometimes used this way too. "Ladies and Gentleman we are ON AN ACTIVE TAXIWAY! FEDERAL LAW SAYS! LADIES and GENTLEMEN! Once again, Ladies and Gentlemen, it is a FEDERAL LAW!" And so on.
If one starts that announcement with "Hello everyone," it's instantly harder to work up to a Defcon-4 flight attendant or gate agent rage meltdown.
Benyamin,
All Luftwaffe had to do was to consult a cunning linguist, such as I. It is with great pride I announce to the world coining a pronoun which will untangle this bloody mess. “heshit”……..Allow me to explain He, She, It, (heshit). Everyone gets a piece of it. No, no don’t thank me, I am all about giving to my fellow man. Oooh maybe “manshit?”
All of our bathrooms in our living spaces in college were co-ed (gender neutral), and this was back in the 80s. And they weren't just one person bathrooms. There were multiple showers and toilets in each bathroom. No one ever had a problem--even the arch conservatives.
There are plenty of German neologisms that could utilize a neuter gender (or they could just make one up). Also, the -in construction for feminized nouns is becoming somewhat less common; much as the use of words like "actress" are less prevalent in English these days.
Ben.
I am offended by your website name. Some of us use the metric system, and prefer “kilometers” rather than “miles”. Please change immediately.
I insist on „signor dottore“, but only in German speaking regions.
Elsewhere, I don‘t care that much as I only got a masters degree anyway.
Fluggäste is plural of Fluggast (der, masculine).
Most genuine would be:
„ts‘up y‘all… buckle and shut the fuck up“
Does anyone know who's behind this year's Pride Day/Week/Month? The number of large international companies participating with their rainbow logos isn't just some spontaneous coincidence. Who coordinated and paid for it all? Especially for Pride Day to become one whole month?
This is exactly what happened during the Cultural Revolution in Communist China half a century ago, and it completely destroyed Chinese culture as we knew it.
It is indeed exciting to live through the darkest hours of Chinese history in the flesh.
The dig at readers who may wish to boycott Lufthansa was rather telling…it’s obvious which side of this issue our author is on.
I will say that “Lieber Fluggäste” will have an easier time replacing “Meine Damen und Herren” than “Dear Guests” or “Dear Passengers” than “Ladies and Gentlemen”.
People keep saying that this accommodates a "small percentage" of people...it is a tiny, miniscule number of people...but based on advertising and changes like this makes it seem it is a large percentage. I recently asked a German friend of mine how many trans people she thought were in America. Her answer - "Ummm....probably like 25%." Thanks media.
And this is worthy of an article? I thought that this blog was primarily about points and miles. As you even said a small percentage of people are impacted and it does not shorten the announcements by much. Ridiculous.
So much fear from those who oppose. What’re you afraid of losing? Your white privilege as a wannabe globe trotter who rarely gets questioned at a security or immigration/customs checkpoint?
Or is it simply that you are afraid you will be called out by your children or family or friends for not being a kind person who recognizes that all of us have our own challenges, and that we all plenty of opportunities to learn.
Differences aren’t scary. Unless you have so little to offer that you can’t bear the thought of being with anyone other than only people who are exactly like you. (How boring!)
The average person traveling by plane today couldn’t be further from a “lady” or a “gentleman.” Shouldn’t we just strive to be decent people who can extend some kindness and acceptance?
I wonder how precious and insecure a person has to be to NEED to be addressed as lady or gentleman. To be upset by a simple good morning. Gosh, I hope they taught their children to be a bit tougher than that. My goodness gracious.
Well, at least the comment section is entertaining 🙂 Enjoy the fireworks, ladies and gentlemen!!
@Jonathan Gable: we’ll said.
For those that are bothered with this, I am happy not to fly on the same airline as you. If the rest of us can make life less complicated or simple for each other, I am all in. There are times and will be others I will need some support and hope others are there for me.
Just watch Alien 3, which was released way back in 1992 (not the best of the series)… the planet on which the story takes place:
“FIORINA “FURY” 161
OUTER-VEIL MINERAL ORE REFINERY
DOUBLE Y CHROMOSOME-WORK CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
MAXIMUM SECURITY
Genetic differences in gender are not new… this movie is merely a recent reference. As someone else mentioned, these differences have existed throughout the historical arc of the human race.
In other words, sorry to those who feel so encumbered by a minor change of words in an airline boarding welcome. You should have bigger problems in your lives to worry about!
I love seeing snowflakes triggered by a policy of a foreign company they will never patronize over a decision that literally has nothing to do with them. Your mock outrage is hilarious! I guess the fake stolen election story has started to bore even them. Suffer!
I know this is a joke, but I'm pretty sure the 'Mile' in OMAAT refers to FF miles, not the unit of distance, meaning you'd have to ask every airline in the world to change it to km lol
Exactly. Most people simply don't care, but you wouldn't know it because the ones who post unkind nonsense are the ones who are, for whatever reason, angered by the fact that there are more gender identities than they are capable of imagining. We don't hear from the vast majority who aren't emotionally invested in how other people live their lives.
Hmm, good point. German-speaking countries I guess are just starting on their journey towards respecting gender identities. Every plural noun in German is automatically female, so on the surface, there should be no issue when referring to "the passengers" (die Passagiere). But strictly speaking that word would only be used for a group of male passengers, or a mixed group of male and female passengers. The word "passenger" has two different forms, male and female (not just two different definite articles, die and der): der Passagier / die Passagierin. A group of female passengers has its own word, die Passagierinnen.
It's been a long time since I've spoken German with anyone, so I don't know how idiomatic it is nowadays to fudge the gender thing by, for instance, always using "der Passagier" whether the passenger is outwardly male or female, and "die Passagiere" whether the group is ostensibly all male, mixed, or all female. In English we get around this by using "they/them" for everyone, which I always found awkward. Pluralizing the singular would be even more awkward in German because often the noun itself changes across genders, as is the case with der Passagier / die Passagierin.
Years ago, United Airlines (and maybe others) had a huge list of honorifics you could choose to preface your name in your Mileage Plus profile. If I remember right, Your Highness and Your Holiness were among them.
Do you call your mom “birthing parent”? No. Then stop mixing two different issues - race and gender.
Forcing people to accept something they’re not predisposed to will lead to outrage that makes the flock to the likes of Trump. I patronize Lufthansa, and I don’t like this change. It doesn’t make me believe the election was stolen. But I did enjoy how the last president triggered the likes of you just as much as these changes trigger us.
Yes. Let’s start with the people who force everyone else to call them by scientifically unaligned pronouns to make them feel better about their lives. You’re welcome to call yourself whatever you like. But I won’t. That’s why using actual names is the best option.
I hope they also taught their children that people will not always use “correct” pronouns and launching social media tirades or protests won’t help.