Lufthansa is getting quite a bit of criticism for its handling of a recent diversion. While I don’t envy the position airlines are put in when they need to divert, it seems like Lufthansa screwed this one up pretty bad.
Continue reading: Ouch: Lufthansa 747 Diverts To Istanbul For 34 Hours
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
WTF
Why not rebook to other airlines?
Why not charter a Lufthansa private jet to fly some cylinders from FRA to IST?
Why not send a replacement plane?
I hope there is more to this story
Okay, according to comments from passengers at timesindia.com they could not use the hotels due to visa conflicts.
Anyway, they should’ve been put on alternative flights.
'The planes oxygen supplies for emergencies were used'.
I don't understand this. I have never EVER heard of the overhead oxygen for decompression being used in anything BUT a decompression. Although I know on a 747 an individual mask can be plugged into the overhead ring-main system this is a really easy procedure.
Medical Emergencies are nearly always dealt with via portable O2 cylinders. And most large aircraft have LOADS of them. They last anything up to four hours per cylinder so I just can't get my head around how this whole O2 thing happened.
On another subject - WHY when something happens on a flight to an Indian route do the passengers always jump on a racial slant?? I've read this so many times where flights to/from India have been disrupted this kind of 'it's racist because we are indian'. Beyond a joke. Did Lufthansa handle this well? NO. Was it handled this way because it was a flight to India? NO. Jeez
I can’t see where it was mentioned that the overhead oxygen was used, I read it as they used the portable oxygen cylinders which then needed replacing. Granted those cylinders have a few hours of use I wonder if some were faulty, empty or out of date.
Things like that WON'T happen at a german Airline, those items are CHECKED by Crew on all portable oxygen bottles on a plane!
Also LBA and the in contract technicians do check things like that on an overnight of a plane on the ground!
NO overhead oxygen was used EVER!!!
Whoever said so, does NOt understand the useage of such things, IF those would be deploted at any time, that plane would COMPLETELY be grounded, until EVERY of those masks would be reset and stored ans also checked and sealed again, that takes at least a full day!
sounds mnore like the REAL thing!
Turkey does require Visas for some Nationalities incl. Austrians or Indians!
Who would think of that . . . but of course, the handling from Lufthansa in IST was not the best!
Too bad that LH is distancing so far from there STAR partner TK especially as i bet, they had a huge amount of 310l oxygen bottles available.
BUT, since LH is refusing to work properly with TK (best example MUC airport Terminal 2 STAR exclusive!!!, except TK!!! yes, the only STAR airline that LH does NOT allow at that terminal, while NON STAR Airline Etihad EY is more then welcome there since codesharing with LH on the way to AUH) . . . that just shows, how UNRELIABLE LH is as a partner!
So no wonder, even if LH might have requested spare O2 bottles as replacement from TK in IST, it might have not been handles by TK as LH would want that, i guess?
That's a big OUCH!!
... it sounds to me, LH Dispatch or movement control was inwilling to work properly in this case or got wrong infos from the Cockpit or get some O2 bottles, couldn't be more then the max. allowed capazity by law!!! (important too!) to be taken on a scheduled flight from LH out of MUC or FRA where on Technic Support is available and the times of the day would have given that chance!
It was pure bad planning and handling!! An Air emergency with health problems is communicated well before the actual landing and by TCAS, all details can be well communicated with ALL sorces involved, if O2 is missing or used and needs to be replaced, it can be requested while plane is still in the air!
.... simply VERY bad handling, incl. the ground ops in IST by LH!
Here the official LH flights data of that flight:
DOLH754/18OCT
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * LH 754 -3 TU 18OCT22
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FRA LEFT THE GATE 1140
TOOK OFF 1155
AIRCRAFT FORCED TO RETURN
IST AIRCRAFT LANDED 1857
ARRIVED 1910
ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 0430
DELAY FLIGHT DECK CREW SHORTAGE
LEFT THE GATE 0444
TOOK OFF 0459
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1342 BLR
BLR AIRCRAFT LANDED 1339
ARRIVED 1343
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* LH 754 -3 TU 18OCT22 ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
FRA 1305 TU JCDZP/RM G/M 744 4:13
EN/M YBMUH/RG
QVWS/RG TLK/M
IST 1818 TU 1915 TU JCDZPGENYBM/- 0:57 6:45
UHQVWSTLK/-
)>
>
md
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1342 BLR
BLR AIRCRAFT LANDED 1339
ARRIVED 1343
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* LH 754 -3 TU 18OCT22 ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
FRA 1305 TU JCDZP/RM G/M 744 4:13
EN/M YBMUH/RG
QVWS/RG TLK/M
IST 1818 TU 1915 TU JCDZPGENYBM/- 0:57 6:45
UHQVWSTLK/-
BLR 0430 WE 11:55
COMMENTS-
1.FRA IST - DEPARTS TERMINAL 1
2.ENTIRE FLT- ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
3.ENTIRE FLT- PLS ADD PAX MOBILE CTC FOR IRREG COMMUNICATION
4.ENTIRE FLT- C67E32M272
5.FRA IST - CO2/PAX* 153.68 KG ECO, 153.68 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
744 C 67 E 32 M 272
My thoughts and they don’t even need to charter. Could easily put in the next LH FRA/MUC - IST flight, there are multiple everyday.
Seems like poor management of the situation from the airline all around as 34 hours stranded is very ridiculous. Hopefully pax got compensated well for the situation
Awful experience, and sure appears Lufthansa could've done more.
Is there a single story there days where some group of peoples doesn't claim disregard?
Treated as hostages and cruelty. Ridiculous. Tell that to people in Ukraine. Unfortunately many Indian customers tend to be like that, and claim discrimination and harassment, although agree communication is key.
But this is exactly what I am saying. On a 747 at the airline I work for (before they retired them) had at least 15-20 O2 cylinders. Maybe even more. WAY above the MEL. If we had to divert and even if we had used two or three because it had taken us some time to divert we would carry on.
I cannot understand what issue on this flight required them to be replaced. And if they were the portable O2 cylinders these could be replaced within an hour, easy.
If LH's ground staff is half as bad as TK's contracted one at IST. I'm sure who is to blame for not living up to condition of carriage. It is the attitude of I couldn't care less by the employees. Which I may add seems to be prevalent at all corners of the airport . (I'm Turkish Airlines Elite Plus).
Firstly, this is failure on many levels.
Management.1/10
Employee and flyer management. 0
Airline staff.0/10
Airport authority.0/10
Essentials management -
Food & resource planning.
50 people out of 380 flyers were given lounge acess. Fair enough.
But did they provide basics like food and water for the 330 people? NOPE.
They didn't even try. 1/10
Management training on emergency situations : 0.5/10
Proper planning : Failed. 2/10
36 hours is a long time to troubleshoot and even fail with required training
If the staff had to be rested for the resumption of the flight that took off less than 3 hours then there's only two ways that it could happen.
Overworked employees that have worked on a different flight or a lazy flight staff that just wants rest at the cost of the traumatic expense of the flyer. Both are terrible.
What should the aviation do?
Plan of action :
For bad service, the airline should be fined 90%of the flight expenses that everyone on the flight paid + a additional fee which would be spent on hotels, food and water that wasn't provided to the 330 people +the delayed arrival.
If LH hasn't figured out in years of longhaul international flying that diversions ALWAYS cascade into multiple problems, they simply should not be operating those types of flights.
A medical diversion that requires oxygen - which should have been known at the time of the diversion - means that the oxygen has to be replaced.
How many flights did LH operate to Istanbul between the time the flight diverted and when it finally left? Why couldn't an LH mechanic (or two) and when the flight finally left?
Diversions require care of passengers. LH should have a plan for EVERY airport it potentially diverts into that includes passenger care for every passenger on every aircraft type it operates. They clearly did not have that plan in this case or the plan failed.
LH deserves not just to be roasted in the media for this but to be fined and subject to heavy passenger compensation - and it should not take months for this all to be finalized.
LH's IRROPS handling is always atrocious, but not surprising for an airline intent on becoming a high-cost ULCC.
I daresay that there's something in the German psychology that leads them to think "we've accounted for every possibility" (spoiler: they haven't) so if something happens that wasn't accounted for, they effectively give up or worse just keep doubling down on everything going to plan. It's the opposite of resilience, and it's perhaps at the root of a lot of recent issues (designing the entire economy on the assumption that there will be a reliable supply of Russian gas, for instance).
Not sure I see a case for discrimination, Lufthansa seems to hate all of its passengers equally.
In all seriousness, though, the worst part of flight delays is being stuck on the plane. I understand that regulations and policies make de-planing and re-planing (?) a burden, but basic passenger comfort dictates that more than about an hour in a tube with no HVAC, no beverages or food, and no access to lavatories, needs to absolutely be avoided.
Ben’s comment about wifi at IST is absolutely right. This is meant to be a super modern airport but the wifi situation is a disaster.
Firstly you are meant to get a code by your mobile phone. Why would you need wifi if you were roaming?
Plan B is go to a kiosk. You have to swipe your passport and get a code. The code shows on the screen for too little time for you to type it into your phone. Took me 4 rounds before I could memorise and transcribe the number in. the time shown.
And then that offers you one hour of wifi.
Awful.
This also shines a light on another problem beyond the control of LH: The new IST airport on the Black Sea does NOT have any hotels near the airport and won't for another year or two. So where a plane can put up passengers is beyond me.
I had been to the Istanbul Airport a few weeks ago and it is a very large airport. Although, a lot of different types of aircraft use the airport, I do not believe it is frequented by 747-400 type aircraft. Consequently, in a situation like this finding a quick urgent solution in replacing suitable oxygen cylinders would not or may not have been readily available . I would have imagined after one hour of waiting without definitive response from the airport Lufthansa should have made immediate arrangements to disburse passengers to both the airport’s luxurious lounges and nearby hotels.
LH's FLTOPS and IRROPS team should really take courses from Asian airlines like CX's or SQ's in regards to diversion management and operations...What a totally amateur and cluster f--k event by the LH team!...No excuses on this one in as far as the deplorable treatment of the passengers!...
You clearly have absolutely no idea of the logistics. And none has here had bothered to hope the sick passenger was ok. It wasn’t a mechanical issue.
I can assure you that on some diversions, even if passengers were on the ground a couple of hours, there’s always one who makes it the worst experience in their life with absolutely no concern for the sick passenger.
I’ve personally been in a situation with a couple of passengers shouting at the poor cabin crew and demanding compensation as the ambulance was taking a customer away.
Ultimately they all got to India a little later. S.. happens. There are people on far worse situations.
Were you in the flight ? No. You read a few posts in social media from a couple of passengers.
Did you think about the sick customer? No. No compassion. Me me me.
Going landslide is at the discretion of immigration. If they require visas the airline cannot do anything. It’s not their responsibility.
Check out all the hotels within the vicinity of the airport. There are almost none. There’s a Yotel in the terminal which probably had limited availability and is expensive.
Once rebooked customers would be free to move around the terminal, purchase food and claim a refund from Lufthansa.
Try thinking about the people in Ukraine who are trapped and can’t leave. Puts things in perspective.
Alternative flights isn’t that easy and subject to availability. Then trying to reroute customers on multiple airlines, perhaps with a change en route whilst airside. Then there’s the baggage issue as it would still be on the LH aircraft. Most likely the best option was for them to remain on the original aircraft.
not only do I understand completely what is at stake but so do a whole lot of other people including Ben that wrote this article.
We ALL get that medical situations arise and cause unplanned stuff to happen BUT THAT IS PART OF THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY THAT LH is a part of.
If you are going to operate ANY aircraft type over any part of the globe, you need to have a plan for how you deal w/ a diversion and restocking or repairing EVERY item that can be consumed or needed on a flight over that part of the flight path.
Further, IST is just hours from LH's home base. They could have EASILY come to the conclusion that the delay could not have been corrected and sent a recovery flight but they did not.
Trying to equate a disgruntled passenger minutes after a diversion with a day and a half long abandonment is a red herring and highlights that you don't understand that world-class airlines - which LH wants you to think it is - do not leave passenger stranded in an airport w/o the basic necessities for more than a day. They just don't.
Trying to excuse abyssmal operational performance just doesn't work and anyone objective can see the problem here.
People tend to forget that India also has nuclear weapons too.
Their CEO needs to apologize to some Prominent Yogi in Berlin.
It's more than just Asian airlines that know how to manage diversions.
Delta not only has demonstrated that it does them very well but sells its ability to bail airlines out of diversions to other airlines.
Delta has had well-publicized diversions in the middle of the Pacific and in the Aleutian islands and had fully provisioned aircraft recovery and crews in the air just hours after the diversion. I personally was on a Delta flight that diverted to a Caribbean island enroute from S. America to the US and they had a recovery aircraft on the way from Florida in less than an hour after we diverted.
I am sure DL has had some rough diversions as have CX and SQ and I am sure that LH has had some bad ones but the good stuff doesn't make the news while the horrible events do.
It doesn't make the horrible events any less horrible to cite previous successes but some airlines do a better job of recognizing the risks and preparing for them in advance while others flail around and create enormous chaos in the middle of a crisis.
Icarus, thank you for generalization towards Indians. Generalizations and stereotypes are usually the result of ignorant racists. I am an Indian American and once flew from Mumbai to Los Angeles, and the flight had a layover in Munich. The ground staff in giving directions on where to go or what to do did not speak to us in any of the languages that exist on planet Earth. They instead “Grunted” their instructions. They didn’t attempt to speak in German or the international language of English that most Indians speak. You do not need to give us the example of Ukraine at war with Russia to explain what it is to be treated as animals on an International flight. Your analogy shows your lack of empathy and is a bit of an over kill. With your logic no one should be allowed to point out any injustice unless it rises to the level of a war! You are pathetic.
What’s this obsession of comparing everything to Ukraine!
Bad service at restaurants suck it up you are doing better than Ukraine! Bad service with the airline suck it up you are doing better than Ukraine… you get point.
We all sympathize and feel for the people of Ukraine but you are making a mockery of it by comparing it to everyday life!
If you arereally concerned about Ukraine then you should go volunteer in Ukraine and help the people there rather than being an arm chair quarterback!
Focus the airline service issue at hand…
I agree with another post that states that this is not a case of LH discriminating against indian passengers: LH treats all customers equally poorly. LH flight attendants, customer service (a misnomer. LH does not provide customer service!), desk and gate personnel seem all very unhappy. Customers are a nuisance, and they treat all with indifference at best and hostility more likely.
This is ridiculous, the airport have many hotels nearby, maybe not the biggest around but still have, 2 hotel "Yotel" are even inside the airport building airside and landside with 451 rooms available.
i.e. Park Inn by Radisson Istanbul Airport (92 room - 16 min drive)
Second, there a lot of very good connection with the city center and the hotel who existed before for transit / missing connection passenger still exist and Turkish and other airlines still use them, why not LH ?
This is fake excuses... LH is cheap... that's all.
Mr. Icarus THIS is the same airline that offloaded a bunch of Jewish passengers because they were talking loud. Obviously you are a hater AF and a troll. Go sit on a flight then get diverted and sit in an airport for 36 hours, guaranteed you have never done that. Sticking up for LH which has been documented over and over as a racist and an airlines that discriminates against minorities makes you one of them. DO YOU WORK FOR LH???
"And none has here had bothered to hope the sick passenger was ok."
Because a "sick passenger" isn't a mitigating factor to a contract of carriage, and no, that doesn't mean "we got you there eventually, shut up and be happy"
I am taking a trip from USA in April to cario Egypt. I am getting more and more worried with all the negative things I am reading from lost luggage etc. Sure hope I didn't make a big mistake by booking with Lufthansa.
When you have Turkish Airlines as a Star Alliance partner, they could have leased an aircraft and completed the flight. Or even easier just flown in a reserve Lufthansa crew from Munich or Fankfurt to Istanbul along with Oxygen cylinders to complete the journey
Assuming your phone has a camera, snap a picture of your wifi code. You should always do this as a matter of course.
No excuse.... IST is a major airport hub, as others have mentioned, cheaper to put some people on Turkish, send another LH plane to IST, send some people back to FRA......
Of course, the author loves LH and they can do no wrong... their lack of efficiency is showing here big time. shame on them
This is a sad day for the great commercial airline! Lufthansa must understand that customer / passenger is God and the centre of whole airline business !The comfort of the passenger is paramount and if the passenger decides to boycott the airline then Lufthansa will surely go down ! It is bad on the part of German Lufthansa to ignore and treat Indian passenger in such a way ! If it was American passengers they would have given a different treatment ! The pilots must understand that their pay comes from passenger and not from anywhere else ! The behavior of the pilots is not humane
but self centered ! The passenger were 300 and it becomes the duty of Airline Lufthansa and pilots to serve them first asking the same pilots or new pilots to carry on the journey !
Now Lufthansa must take steps to bring in more flexibility in the rules to adjust to such urgent and unforeseen situation ! There must be a higher up person to take the shot and guide the plane from this emergent situation ! When a emergency divergence occurs then the whole flight till it reaches the destination must be declared emergent ! Pilot and management must shoulder the responsibility together as they are operating in the service sector !
Lufthansa airlines must give compensation to each passenger by giving at least a free ticket of same class to them ! Lufthansa must feel sorry for the loss of 34 hours of 300 passenger! Time is lost and nobody can buy time but can surely feel sorry and compensate them!
correct, Concorde. And discussing what LH did wrong doesn't offset our desire that NO ONE get sick or face ill will. Unless someone says otherwise - and no one did - the default mindset for humanity is that we seek no ill will and only good for our fellow inhabitants of the planet.
I think he was as critical of their performance as any of the rest of us, including that he bothered to mention the diversion at all
LOL
Honestly. I am not sure what planet you are on.
Why do you think this would have been handled any differently if there were non-Indian passengers involved? OK, maybe from a Visa situation allowing passengers to actually enter the border. But do you honestly think that Indian passengers are deliberately discriminated against? If so, why?
Just to reassure you that these things don't just happen to Indian passengers here are a few links for you to peruse:
4000 predominantly australian passengers stranded in Bali:
14000 Americans stranded after cancelled domestic flights:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flight-cancellations-transportation-secretary-buttigieg/
British passengers left stranded on a greek island for three days:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/wizzair-passengers-stranded-crete-cardiff-24459584
Honestly, have a google yourself. You will soon see that your assertion that 'this wouldn't happen to americans' is very very wrong.
A couple other points:
1) A pilots job is to fly the plane - safely. That does not mean continuing on if there is a technical issue with the aircraft.
2) Passengers are not 'god'.
3) When a 747 unexpectedly diverts to a city where that airline is used to flying a couple A321's a day into, there isn't a whole team of airline staff on 'standby' ready to spring into action.
4) It always amuses me when Indian passengers complain about non Indian airlines when their national carrier is one of the absolute WORST customer service providers in the whole world and is full of delays and cancellations.
You are assuming here that there were seats available on Turkish.
1) TK does not fly IST - BLR
2) These are the available seats for tomorrows TK flight IST - DEL: 4 Biz seats. Zero economy. To BOM: 3 Biz seats. Zero economy.
Can only assume TK could not have accommodated even a fraction of the LH 747's pax
Lufthansa is the obvious easy target here. Did those angry passengers even wonder the fate of that sick person?
Lufthansa is very accurate and good airlines, and this could happen to any airlines, knowing that airport services in Istanbul Airport aren't on their best. Seems Indians just waited for ant mistake to start firing at airlines.
Easy said than done. Keep in mind that this was an emergency situation and waiting time for oxygen refill was unknown. Delays are caused by Istanbul Airport services.
Ben, why can't LH fly a replacement crew from FRA to takeover from the timed out crew with the necessary oxygen cylinders? FRA to IST is only 3+ hours! Lack of reserve crew for the 747?
Looks like a care of very poor customer service, incredibly ineffective management and shockingly bad response to customer complaints. The simple thing to do would be to send all those passengers who can enter Turkey easily to a hotel in town and the rest to an airside hotel. Decide early that the aircraft and crew won't be leaving until the next day, make a plan and stick to it.
I am a physician who has traveled with Lufthansa many times and helped them with 4 medical emergencies. Reading the story is absolutely heartbreaking and Lufthansa handled this in a terrible way. There is no reason to believe that they could not have gotten oxygen tanks from Germany which is a 2 1/2 hour flight way to Istanbul. Your partner is the Turkish airlines and could’ve taken from them as well. In reading this article in numerous Indian newspaper is it appears that the passengers only got some kind of accommodation and food after they contacted the Indian consulate in Istanbul who arranged for this. LH took no ownership of the passengers and crew just walked off of the airplane. This is completely unacceptable and in the line with the abysmal service Lufthansa is known for. I threw them in business class this summer from Frankfurt to hear United States and needles to say it was an absolutely awful experience. Never again.
I feel that the reporting on this episode is very sketchy with no details. Even if the passengers are stranded at the reported, Lufthansa can easily arrange for food, water, etc. for the passengers and there is no shortage of that at the Istanbul airport. They could have even sent a relief aircraft from Frankfurt for the onward journey.
I was a passenger on this flight in business class . The ground staff were missing. The airport hotels had enough rooms but the stupid airlines had to save money and let the passengers suffer. Some passengers booked the room on themselves and the airport hotels said they have enough rooms but Lufthansa didn't ask for any bookings.
Lufthansa is the worst airlines ever. India based airlines in my previous experience have provided 5 star hotel accomodations and service in case of delays and diversions.