Germany is a country that’s very much dominated by Lufthansa Group, with the only real national competitor being Condor, which doesn’t belong to one of the major airline groups.
Continue reading: Condor & Lufthansa Feeder Flight Drama Settled: Bad News For Consumers?
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If creative thinking is the name of the game, maybe they could team up with the Transavias...
And you think EU would be more progressive on antitrust and monopolies.
It's all propaganda.
As mentioned, Condor has improved a lot over the past few years. Lufthansa seems to be actively getting worse from a customer perspective, and just about everything the airline has done lately - from its failed business class rollout to delayed Boeing aircraft deliveries - has been a dumpster fire.
I think Germany has room for a stronger second carrier, and would love to see Condor continue to expand its feeder network and growing list of partners. The bar that their competitor sets is very low, I hope Condor can seize that opportunity.
Also most iag/Oneworld Airlines are to the west of Germany, which isn't helpful if they're trying to find feeder traffic for their flights to the US
I think perhaps we might see them launch direct service to the US from non-german cities
Nothing stops Condor from flying Rome - New York, or Paris - Salt Lake City. Or anywhere in the EU to anywhere in the US.
There are a few ways that Condor could go here. For one, I see potential in more service to/from Berlin, Germany's largest city. LH really only serves it as a spoke and there's certainly potential for mid to long haul services on certain big routes (NY, LA, Bangkok, CPT etc). There's also potential to provide more services from industrial, yet affluent, western German cities like Cologne, Dusseldorf, or Essen/Dortmund. Potential demand in these areas for routes that are above what the likes of ULCCs offer. Again, longer flights that you'd otherwise have to connect via FRA/MUC or another European hub.
Germany is a market with prosperity, so the potential to compete better with LH does exist. Based on recent reviews, Condor seems to have a better product nowadays.
I forgot to mention exploring other key European cities that are underserved for longer haul flying.
Ben, Condor still is able to use Lufthansa’s fees flights, but at the same conditions like other airlines use them.
The court's decision was absolutely correct. What else does Condor want to do against Lufthansa? Can't they accept that everything was and is legal? Why should they allow their competitor to enjoy such favorable conditions for feeder flights?
Lufthansa clearly has the advantage: The Higher Regional Court has confirmed that no special treatment is necessary compared to Condor; neither the Federal Cartel Office nor the EU Commission currently sees any legal obligation for Lufthansa to give Condor preferential treatment. Condor lacks a strategy and will get bogged down with its new city routes; some of the flights are very poorly utilized, leading to even greater losses. Then they're also busy in Frankfurt, the German airport with the toughest competition, flying to New York, for example, where, in addition to Lufthansa and United, Delta and Singapore Airlines are already operating at competitive prices. Bangkok is just such a route. And then Condor complains about a lack of competition. Things are getting tight for Condor. They have the investor Attestor on their side.
Unlike Lufthansa, Condor has until 2026 to repay its government loans stemming from the pandemic; Lufthansa has already completed this since 2021. Condor still faces numerous challenges, and today's decision doesn't make them any easier.
@ Fred Q Blogs -- For sure, and maybe just adjusting capacity to a market outside of Germany is the best bet. The challenge is that just operating one-off flights from other countries is unlikely to be successful, given the competition.
@ Al -- Yeah, it wouldn't be useful for oneworld in terms of feed, but I think the geography of Germany is a reason that IAG could benefit from Condor in its portfolio of airlines, in terms of having better coverage.
It could be a blessing in disguise when you see when you see how LH seems to go from blunder to blunder and creates an airline every week!
I was thinking of Air Transat and its Connectair system adding 275 destinations to its portfolio, using low cost and full service airlines. Condor may look at something similar to create seamless services.
I happen to agree that LH shouldn't be required to give Condor preferential pricing but they do need to be required to give them access to their inventory on industry-standard terms - as is happening.
FRA does need to provide some reasonable level of slots for Condor to feed its own longhaul flights.
and ultimately, Condor might end up like Virgin Atlantic which had to align w/ a larger carrier that can provide feed or as part of a alliance, potentially w/ a change in product to be more legacy-like at least for longhaul flights.
oneworld and SkyTeam would both love to a player in Germany
It certainly seems more sensible to have a different hub than LH (or Eurowings)
As you say, routes like BER-NYC or HAM-BKK being non-stop would have an appeal over connecting in FRA (in which case one might as well fly LH for the heavier schedules)
They could effectively step into the shoes of Air Berlin (killed by the delay opening BER, but the airport is open now)
LOT Polish Airlines should restart their purchase of Condor, now at a lower valuation, and fix the poor quality (starting with the joke that Condor calls “premium” economy), or at a minimum, decline preferential feeder flights as well (Condor still appears to get super low pricing on LO flights) and rapidly grow LO independently.
Without LH or LO, Condor has effectively no path forward for feeder flights other than maybe a DB Rail partnership but that only applies in Germany.
They used to at least be a low-cost airline in Business Class. Now they are just an overpriced, half baked offering that brings little pricing competition for the quality. For example, Condor is far from being ZipAir when it comes to introducing truly competitive pricing.
@Ben , I think that you tend to conflate alliances with JVs despite being well-versed in their differences.
I don't think Condor are a good fit for oneworld. They mostly go West which is where that alliance is strong (BA/AA to the USA, IB to the Caribbean/Latin America) and don't have much traffic to the East or the South where the alliance is much weaker than the competition (Rwandair and UL anyone?).
They, and the consumer, would be better off joining forces with LOT, TK/UX, or even Aegean, adding both connectivity and scale to the combined operations. Now all those are *A members and LH would definitely want to keep them out of the alliance, but Aer Lingus are fine being in a JV without belonging to an alliance.
The German market should support a second carrier, as long as it is selective in its offering, not duplicating LH. It also helps that LH has deteriorated tremendously in terms of service level.
Hamburg is Germany's second largest city and there are zero non-stop flights to North America. Zero. There aren't many non-stop flights from Berlin to North America other than Newark or seasonal to JFK.
Berlin to Hamburg is under 3hrs by train so maybe people would rather take the train to Hamburg and fly to LA or Miami for example non-stop than change planes at JFK or Newark.
I liked Air Berlin when it was in Oneworld. Easy to redeem AA miles for flights to Berlin from JFK. Maybe Condor can become what Air Berlin was trying to be, which is Germany’s #2 carrier and a reliable connecting partner in the Oneworld alliance.
@Andy...I totally agree on your first point. As for your second point...LH do one or two things well (e.g. route network). But as for service levels, I don't see a deterioration because, well, they've been average/bad for decades. It's basically LH plodding along and just being...LH. They're like the Qantas of Europe: overrated, underwhelming, dated, expensive, and relying on past glory.
I don't think there's an easy answer.
FRA doesn't have the same catchment area as LHR or CDG.
Condor could fly from Dusseldorf and Berlin to have a better catchment area within Germany - but are these cities attractive as destinations to US travellers? Demand needs to be created at both the Origin and Destination.
"For one, I see potential in more service to/from Berlin, Germany's largest city"
There's a REASON that Berlin has a paltry of long-haul service, despite being a massive population catchment. The corporate traffic is limit, leisure traffic is seasonal, and the yields on both are garbage.
If that were to be Condor's great plan, then Air Berlin is waiting for them on the other side.
"Berlin to Hamburg is under 3hrs by train so maybe people would rather take the train to Hamburg and fly to LA or Miami for example non-stop than change planes at JFK or Newark."
You don't think airlines would've figured that out, if that were the case?
Continental, Delta, United, Emirates, etc have all flown nonstops between Hamburg and the USA in relatively recent times. None found it worthwhile to continue.
I assume this is related to the sad fact that the last Condor nonstop MIA - FRA is on October 28, 2025....I'm devastated, having used this flight 10 times in the past year and a half. I refuse to fly LH 463 business class. 4 weeks ago I got LH First, everything was so old and worn out, the food was borderline inedible, sad, that the little competition they had is going away. I hope that Condor finds a way to give LH a run for their money.
Definitely in summer they would benefit from flying to Athens, Rome, Naples Héraklion and so on. Definitely a partnership with Aegean could be useful while flying to Italy on their on metal. Possibly using a A330-neo for the short return flight to Rome right after the bank of landings from the US.
They need to put their money where their mouth is. If POS is from the IS they need to understand where those customers come from and want to go and how to make that easier for them.