Hello from Dubrovnik, as I just completed a cruise with Four Seasons Yachts, which is Four Seasons' new cruising venture. I've been fascinated by the recent trend of luxury hotel groups launching cruise brands, and it's wild to see how quickly this industry is evolving.
I guess if you have money to burn then this could be good. But otherwise looks awful.
@ Brian -- Sorry, the ship looks awful, or what are you trying to say? Obviously service was an issue and I can see people arguing the value isn't good, but I can't figure out how one comes to the conclusion that it "looks awful?"
It’s a cruise, you’re trapped in a 44sqm room on a ship with only other people who also want to be on a cruise and for that immense privilege you are paying more than you would pay for a suite at basically any Four Seasons globally. That’s why it looks awful.
Beautiful ship - we get it. But it’s doesn’t sound like it’s even nearly worth tens of thousands per weeks when they can’t get a basic meal, coffee or pizza right.
It sounds exactly like what it is (if I‘m not wrong): a branding deal with a sub-par partner trying to get high-paying customers through the four seasons brand (and apparently it works looking how often you stated how much you love the beans).
The review would have probably sounded differently if this was an unknown brand with the same experience.
@ Florian -- I think it's important to emphasize that Four Seasons does actually have a stake in Four Seasons Yachts, and it's not just a branding and licensing deal (unlike Ritz-Carlton Yacht Collection). Clearly that doesn't translate to immediately flawless service right away, though.
And yeah, you're definitely right that the brand gets a lot of people through the door. A vast majority of the guests had never been on a cruise before, and I imagine it's the Four Seasons name that caused them to give it a try.
I’m sorry, how is $25k an investment?? Most likely he got this gifted to write a review by the PR department.
@ C Sun -- Not only would it be illegal for me to lie about this, but does this really sound to you like a paid review?
Regarding your question of how this is an investment... I thought that was pretty straightforward, but if it's not, let me explain. Travel advisors get paid a commission on bookings they make, and can add perks for people. Writing about an experience (whether good or bad) hopefully leads to bookings, and in turn, commissions. There aren't many firsthand reviews of the Four Seasons Yacht, so it seemed worth spending the money to be able to experience it.
"Writing about an experience (whether good or bad) hopefully leads to bookings"
With respect, writing badly about an experience would NOT be expected to lead to bookings.
You could not be more wrong. At this level, the target customer is smart enough to understand how the world works.
Go to the Dorsia Travel website and read there blog. Tom (a friend of mine) has NEVER written a positive review of anywhere he has visited, and he only visits the worlds most expensive resorts. He finds something to hate wherever he goes.
His travel booking service is now one of the most successful one-man (well, one-couple) operations in the world, with few bookings under six figures in value. Those sarcastic reviews have literally built his entire business.
@ Simon -- Raffles is exactly correct. You'd think that, but I can say from experience that even negative reviews can generate a lot of bookings.
@ Ben and @ Raffles - great points. Hadn't thought about it that way before.
In retrospect, one of the ways I screen hotels is by reading the bad reviews (from the best-reviewed options) - that way, I get a sense of what people don't like, how petty the negative reviews are, etc. Learned something new today - appreciate it!
Illegal? Not sure on that one. There’s no laws against taking free or discounted trips. It’s more of an ethical question. But on that front I would say you have the highest standards of any Blogger/reviewer out there. That’s why OMAAT is the only site worth reading anymore and why we all trust you. Especially since most cruise bloggers are amongst the biggest shills out there.
It’s more of who exactly has $25k to throw down on a vacation?
You are wrong. There are regulations requiring disclosure around editorial content that is paid for (or comped). Those regulations are quite particular about things like font sizes and which page the disclosure appears on. Also, who do you think would have the straight information on this -- a professional blogger who is subject to those rules or you, a random person throwing around groundless accusations on the internet.
@LarryInNYC
Ah yes, the classic ‘a rule exists, therefore nobody can break it’ argument. If compliance were automatic, we could probably eliminate audits, investigations, and every ethics discussion ever. Give me a break. Like I said, look at most YouTubers or cruise bloggers.
@Sun. You stated no such regulations exist. You were wrong, they do. Whether or not they're followed is a different question. In general they are, your suggestion that they are not is no more based in fact than your original incorrect statement that they don't exist at all.
@LarryinNYC Larry, you're working awfully hard as this guy's unpaid PR department. Rules existing doesn't magically mean everyone follows them. That's why regulators exist. But since you're so confident, name one major blogger who's ever been seriously held accountable over disclosure violations. And if this is 'illegal' tell me how long they're in prison for.
I’m assuming hotel Excelsior or perhaps Villa Dubrovnik? Btw Airelles Venice was great.
@ KC -- I think you're onto something. 😉 And yes, Airelles Venice is excellent, stayed there on the way out.
@ Ben — Looks like we did it in reverse order… saw the four seasons yacht in Rovinj harbor on my way up to Venice.
Trying to complete my set of luggage tags from all the Airelles properties… lol
I think you're being too nice here. I don't want the wrong bags in my cabin on any cruise, much less one of this stature. And I certainly don't want my bags in someone else's room while they figure out where my bags are.
The pizza crust. The split dinner for 12. Service recovery was better the last time I was on Celebrity. Captain Kate knows better, or she not involved anymore?
@ NSS -- Hah, Captain Kate is off right now, she'll be back soon (the captains work three months on, three months off).
To be honest, after day two we were really disappointed, and if we were staying at a hotel, we would've just asked to check out early. But things did improve over the course of our journey, and everyone was *trying*.
Regarding me being too nice here, I do think it's telling that a vast majority of people had a similar impression, including that they had a great time and that they'd sail on it again, despite the issues.
Can we all be honest for a moment? People don't pay this kind of money for "service" or whatever else Ben found lacking on this cruise.
It's to segregate away from those that cannot afford this. Plain and simple.
There, I said it.
@ Simon -- I think people book trips for all kinds of different reasons. Let's be honest, cruising hasn't historically been thought of as "cool," so this isn't like booking Saint Tropez in July, where you're paying a fortune to see and be seen.
Quite to the contrary, I actually found the crowd onboard to be all over the place in terms of what they were looking for, and their vibe. You had people from everywhere from Vietnam to South Dakota. Sure, maybe some people book to "segregate away from those that cannot afford this," but I think an equal number of people wanted a great experience, and of course had the means to pay for it.
Since when are wealthy people obsessed with "cool"?
"Rich" Miami people, maybe. But truly wealthy people, like you say from South Dakota, couldn't care less about "cool".
@ Simon -- "Cool" can be defined in many ways by many people. Presumably the whole basis of your argument of people wanting to "segregate away from" people who can't afford that is based on some perceived judgment they make. Or what are you suggesting it's based on?
My point was that the crowd was very diverse (in comparison to expensive places that are all filled with the same kinds of "rich" people), so I think a lot of people were looking for a lot of different things.
For example, I met someone who said he otherwise prefers to charter yachts (obviously much smaller), but liked having a ship that has a lot more amenities, while still being intimate. I don't think that person is trying to "segregate away from" anyone else, and if anything, it's the opposite.
@Ben, that was almost exactly what I was thinking - chartered small yachts are the most likely alternative to this kind of cruise. Looks like the hard product is more than good enough for that, while the soft product is not. Also agree with @Simon about the price point - these levels are for people who want to socialize with others who can afford these prices. Those who don't want to socialize at all would still prefer private charters.
And I just laughed at the sauna photo - an almost exact replica of a sauna on Celebrity Millennium class of slightly upscale mass market cruise ships from 25 years ago.
@ SBS -- In general, cruisers are VERY social people, and as an introvert, that takes some getting used to. But what I think is interesting is that cruisers seemingly just want to meet anyone, no matter what their story is. It's just less of a "clout chasing" social vibe than you'll find in many other places that are very expensive.
I have no inherent bias against rich people but given a preference would prefer not only to be on a cruise where some of my fellow guests were school teachers or nurses, but would want to avoid an ultra wealthy demographic who think this is a good way to spend their financial assets. (Guess that's why I hated living in Monaco when I worked in the cruise business).
That seems like a overly-simplistic explanation. Why not just stay home, or go to a trusted land-based property and not deal with imperfect service is if your goal is to “segregate away from those that cannot afford” the experience?
Spot on Simon, there are plenty of cruise experiences where you CAN have all inclusive dining with impeccable service. Silversea Cruise and Crystal are good examples. You don’t need to spend an obscene amount of money to get that. It’s definitely a flex and out-pricing people. Or as my mom would say “it’s for people with more money than brains.” I get why Ford needed to do it, but $35K is incredibly foolish when you could actually charter your own boat for that.
yeah this is a marvelously unhinged take, and it makes me wonder whether the OP has ever paid this much for an experience.
i'll admit that i haven't, but i've paid a pretty penny that amounts to a not-insubstantial chunk of this on certain occasions, and when i do, it's absolutely for the service.
to the extent that it's about segregation at all, it's the luxury of being segregated from everyone writ large besides my significant other, which is why brands like Miraval or Alila tend to appeal - and that's just inapplicable to cruises.
@ digital_notmad
Of course I haven't ever paid this much for an experience. And I don't foresee myself doing so, at least for the next decade or two (barring some terminal diagnosis). Although I easily could, I've worked too hard to light that much money on fire.
The closest I've come to this kind of exclusivity (if the word "segregation" is triggering) is having access to AA Flagship lounges on domestic economy itineraries by virtue of OneWorld status from an overseas carrier. It's less crowded, the service is better, the clientele is different than an Admirals Club or credit card lounge - there, I said it. And it's nice! But despite the price of admission being only $150 - less than 100x this cruise - I still couldn't fathom paying it unless I had a crazy long connection.
Correction - I meant to say "more than 100x less than this cruise" - hopefully, that's obvious in context.
Yeah, one of those things I could afford, but know I could never convince myself to buy. (Just like I will buy J on widebody flights, but never F---though I'm rarely on flights with both J and F.) My mathematical mind can't help but do the calculation that $35K would get me the serviced apartment I'm currently renting in Ireland for over 100 nights (and I'm paying high season prices---the high season isn't even 100 days.)
100% agree with F vs J. Or a "suite" vs standard room at my intended hotel. Or renting a "premium luxury SUV" vs regular SUV. Etc, etc, etc.
I guess like all things, there is a market for this, and that's great.
I'd rather go on five $7k cruises, or better yet, seven $5k cruises, ten $3k cruises, etc.
Some people cannot take the time off from work for five cruises or more. Accordingly, they may opt to spend more on fewer vacations or cruises.
@ This comes to mind -- That's totally fair, and I even largely agree with you. I wrote a while back about the general luxury hotel rate inflation we've seen over the years:
https://onemileatatime.com/insights/luxury-hotel-rate-inflation/
There's just not "value" in luxury travel in the way there used to be. Ultimately that's driven largely by American spending power, and a lot of very rich people having very little time to vacation, and therefore spending whatever it costs.
Once you start comparing other expenses in life, it's of course hard to justify any sort of luxury hotel experience (or something like this).
But we're also talking about a product here that has a total of 95 rooms, in an industry that has hundreds of thousands of rooms. So from Margaritaville at Sea to Four Seasons Yacht, there's something for everyone.
It’s also larger economic trends. Our economy is supported by the spending of the top 10%. This cruises concept is a great example.
Saying you're going to book a 30k+ cruise again is vastly different than booking your next cruise before you disembark. Talk is cheap, literally.
Was Captain Kate the captain on your ship?
Ryan Walker's youtube review on this ship was brutal. And his opinion is always spot on. Recommend you watch if you haven't seen it yet.
Ryan Walker's youtube review on this ship was brutal. And his opinion is always spot on. Recommend you watch if you haven't seen it yet.
@ Ryan (not Walker) -- Yeah, I saw that, it was really rough. I was at least happy that seemingly some of those issues were addressed, like room cleanliness (at least in our case).
The rooms do look gorgeous! I don't think I fully registered how expensive this is though, crazy. Although I'm mostly impressed that you have no less than 10 friends that can spend 35k for a week, that sounds like reality TV material right there (yes I'm obviously jealous)!
this blog has turned from a "how to use miles and points" to "here's another credit card offer", and "look how rich I am"
That's my cue to un-bookmark
@ RetiredATLATC -- I'm sorry to hear that, but I still do plenty of points content. I earn Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador status the (mostly) hard way, and also World of Hyatt Globalist status through stays, and I review as many of those interesting properties as I can. And my flights are booked almost entirely with points as well.
I know this blog is all about airlines and airports but no need to announce your departure. Ben will miss his most important Diamond member.
Hey Ben, just pointing out a technical issue regarding a ship’s “weight”. Go ahead and run the ship’s specs through AI to learn a bit about weight/displacement/internal volume, etc.
Thanks for the ‘taster’ review!
So , if the bags with a different room Number , were wrongly delivered to the wrong room Number , isn't that an illustration of the crew being unable to read Numerals . If a crew is unable to read Numerals , why does anyone deserve any gratuity ?
"...isn't that an illustration of the crew being unable to read Numerals ."
Yes, that is an illustration of the crew being unable to read Numerals. Sometimes, when I'm typing fast, I'll write the word "the" as "teh." That is an illustration that I cannot spell "the."
"If a crew is unable to read Numerals , why does anyone deserve any gratuity ?"
They don't deserve gratuity. They should pay the passengers a gratuity, and in this case, the crew pooled their money and paid each person €700 (€100 per night) for their innumeracy, which is a lesson they won't soon forget!
Good catch on your part!
Willy . You spell "the" correctly , yet perhaps type faster . Slowly is better as explained by Sinatra in "nice and easy" , meaning "slower , nicer and easier" . Yet if they don't know the numerals , they need to be tested before employed . The hard crust on the pizza might be explained by cement powder used instead of baking powder .
Ben, are you sure you didn't accidentally book the Four Seasons Auto Spa and Yacht Line?
Think the problem with these ultra luxury experiences is for the cost, you notice every flaw (as you should). Makes it hard to just sit back and enjoy.
This is 100% true for me, and it doesn't have to be ultra luxury. Even just at a Park Hyatt. We stayed in the (wonderful) Park Hyatt Vienna a few years back and what do I remember most? Okay, the truffled eggs at breakfast. But the second thing I think of was a piece of paper in the hallway that wasn't cleaned up for a whole day.
One advantage of spending $80 a night on hotels (which is still quite possible in Europe, at least outside the capitals) is that it's almost impossible to be disappointed. I have to remind them to put milk in my coffee? Personally, I couldn't care less -- unless I paid $600 a night for the hotel in which case, WTF?
The result is, the less luxurious the place I stay the net happier I am.
"The result is, the less luxurious the place I stay the net happier I am."
I'm not sure I agree with this, but I'd never thought of/about it until I read your comment. Either way, thank you for the great food for thought (100% serious, none of my occasional (usual?) snark). Great comment.
Maybe put another way, "the lower our expectations, the easier it is not to be disappointed?" Not trying to put words in your mouth, just thinking here.
For sure, it is just funny cause I stayed at the Montreal Delta a few weeks ago for like 200 bucks and was amazed by the free bottle water, a door man and the smiles.
Then last week I stayed at the St. Regis Kanai (excellent) and was outraged (I am being dramatic, slightly irritated) that they forgot turn down service one night.
So yes, agreed it is an expectations thing and if I am paying 35k for a cruise I expect perfection.
I am a few days out from final payment for an upcoming 4S cruise and am considering taking the 3% fee and canceling due to the slew of poor reviews, in addition to several pre-cruise issues.
1. My initially-booked voyage was among those that were canceled. I, too, received the 30% offer. Now that final payment is almost due, 4S has asked for the full amount (easily correctable, I’m sure, but a significant oversight).
2. My TA presented several suites as available at time of booking the new voyage. 4S would come back telling her “that suite is no longer available”, always trying to put me in a connecting suite or one on a lower floor. It was clear they were holding out suites with preferable locations for future clients who carry more weight.
3. Automated emails from 4S about final payment, with due dates in 2025 (for the previously-canceled cruise), and the incorrect amount due.
4. My TA reached out to 4S about these emails, and they acknowledged the errors, but told her my final payment was due “immediately”. This, despite the invoice from 4S that shows final payment is not yet due.
I have done one RCYC cruise and it was a fantastic experience from start to finish. Another two booked (one this year, one next). For me, like Ben, I am looking for a frictionless experience with good food and good service. I’ve sailed Celebrity in the Retreat, Seabourn, Crystal and Explora. They’re all nice, but not as pleasant and crowd-free experience as Ritz was (for me, at least). In addition, the food on Ritz was the best I’ve experienced at sea. Explora was #2, with Crystal coming in third. Of course, this is very subjective.
I hope 4S can remedy the issues plaguing their new cruising experience.
@Lucky; I’m no cruise expert….but I believe they are called cabins or staterooms, not rooms.
For $35,000 a week, they'll call them whatever the heck you want them to be called.