There are of course lots of amazing airlines out there, ranging from Qatar Airways to Singapore Airlines. However, I’d argue that no airline has built a brand quite in the way that Emirates Airline has. Emirates is one of the most talked about airline in the world, and I think the carrier has tapped into…
Continue reading: Emirates’ Brilliant, Unrivaled A380 Halo Effect
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hard product on the 380s is truly weak. J is crammed and noisy, and I don't believe the seats are truly flat ... They may technically be, but the way they operate they end up slightly angled, maybe 170 degrees, and not comfortable even with padding. I actually think the same is true in the F seats, but they are wider and longer and more private, and maybe the padding is better, so it is less noticeable
Ah, how great to see an opinion piece from Ben, from the mind of an avgeek! Now for my ten cents on a contrast with QR, since it’s the other airline that has milked and leveraged its own reputation to the massive extent that EK did — all the more so from the Gulf — by focusing on a premium experience instead of a premium aircraft as such.
First, QR is mighty focused about flying the world’s best premium products. Sure, over half the widebody fleet is 787s and older 777s and A350s (plus A380s and ancient A330s) which don’t have the Qsuite, and there are irritatingly frequent equipment swaps. On a bad day, QR is almost as bad as ET and TG in the swaps department. But what it did all those years ago with the Qsuite remains as cutting-edge today as it was then, and it’s expanded very well indeed… unlike EK’s ’nine planes and no more’ attitude towards its 777 F product. Asian airlines like SQ, BR and NH have been equally hesitant about rolling out premium products on a large scale, but not QR.
Second, QR had a laser-focused CEO, Akbar al-Baker, who believes like nobody’s business in the power of the world’s best business class, to the extent that F becomes redundant. Of course, he was far from the best in terms of employee relations (which Badr Mohammed al-Meer has done stellarly so far in rectifying). EK would have benefited a great deal from having at least a decent 777 J product all these years, something it’s finally realised.
Third, as QR belongs to OW and more or less influences, if not controls, a lot of things about the alliance and its members, it can afford to offload a fair bit of its traffic to a partner. EK can’t, since it has only A380s and 777s so far, plus it’s fairly anti-alliance, so it needs to do all the heavy lifting itself and build its own network with high frequencies and capacities. Qantas has helped it a fair bit, but it can only go so far, and EK has helped QF much more instead of the other way around. That’s a testament to EK’s brand.
So it’s an interesting contrast how EK went all-in on the A380 like no one else did, with a just-okay business-class product, and maintained a bad but nevertheless highly consistent 7-abreast J on the 777. It knew it could get away with it. QR and later EY realised that they couldn’t do that to that scale with the A380 (though of course EY has the Apartments and Residence), so went about focusing on their own premium products instead.
(Also, while a bit unrelated, EK and QR have both built on sports sponsorships like no other, with QR leaning in heavily on FIFA and EK painting its A380s with so many other sports from cricket to rugby… including the latest glaring blue NBA livery. That’s something that the A380 provides the best (and obviously biggest) canvas for!)
Sadly it is just that - a halo effect. The reality doesn't reflect it at all, and is only because of the first class product with its amenities like showers. Emirates is a very mediocre airline for most passengers including in J. Its crew are also not very polished, and frequently inconsistent and not very bothered about their jobs. BA crew rightly get a lot of heat for their inconsistency of service levels, but Emirates crew are the same in my experience.
"Let me of course acknowledge that for economy flyers, the carrier’s A380 experience is quite pleasant as well. Economy doesn’t get much better than on the Emirates A380."
Lol, this just shows you have never flown in Economy with them ever. Crew are generally terrible and unbothered. The A380 is such a vast cabin they frequently look stressed and miserable working it too. Food is also utter low quality slop these days.
Over the decades, I have flown EK four times:
Once in Y from London to Dubai
Once in J from London to Osaka
Once in J from NYC to Auckland
Once in J from London to Dubai
I have never flown them in F
They were all good flights but none of them were rave worthy. I would only choose EK if their schedule work much better than others and if their price is super competitive coz their 2-2-2 just ain't cutting it.
The halo effect that you mentioned is created by people like you who continue to rave about taking a shower in an unhygienic seemingly cramped shower stall, instead of bathing in the comfort of a large hotel shower stall or at your home. For someone who constantly goes on and about space, I find this so strange.
Years ago, Virgin had bars on board. Qatar had on a flight I took from Madrid to Doha in 2019 in J. Nothing revolutionary there.
Even if I'll be torn apart by others here in the comments section: I dare to say that even Lufthansa business class is better than Emirates!
Why? IMHO, any business class with angled seats is inferior to a business class with flat bed seats! (At least on flights of more than 5 hours).
As much as I am happy if employees are happier now Al-Baker is gone, I can't help but feel also service standards have gone down at QR since he's gone. They're incredibly inconsistent now, before even economy they were ridiculously consistent and polished. That's gone and it can easily be lacking, both in terms of crew amd things like food. QR loves to remind you 10x a flight that they're a "5 star airline" and "the world's best airline" but recently it's all fur coat and no knickers.
In the main one has to agree with you vicnc.
The mindset of some Middle Eastern management teams, in many services sector disciplines, starts off extremely well. To start with one can be very impressed by all of the glitz and glamour. However, in many cases that soon wears off, aircraft cabins, hotel suites and restaurants, etc, can soon look tired. When the shine wears off there tends to be a reluctance repair and renew.
Some mention uncomfortable seats and beds, I too have experienced both phenomena in F. Four out of my five EK flights in F, had imperfections, faulty equipment, etc. My only ’perfect’ flight was pre Chinese virus, could that be the reason?
On a positive note, one is looking forward to the new suits as they appear to be less ‘Dolly Parton’ glam.
EK are certainly fans of using travel influencers, most recently a number of the well known YouTubers admitted they were on a paid trip for the inaugural A350 from Edinburgh (well 1 admitted it the others failed to do so).
Having flown Emirates economy more than once, I would say that they do offer a somewhat superior economy product. Food is at least respectable and crews have been nothing but pleasant to me. But its still economy, and on a 14 hour flight its not going to be fun.
I completely agree on J. I’ll fly first now and then as the pricing is often competitive (although if Etihad operates the same route I’m Etihad every time), but emirates J leaves so much to be desired even on A380. Cabin is big, clientele are often there to be seen so can be obnoxious and loud. Not a fan.
AA and Emirates are perfect contrasting examples of the airline halo effect
I wonder what Ben’s friends flying to Athens would’ve said flying AA despite the vastly superior hard product
Lol@ dubai being "open, liberal, and tolerant"
It's a slave society, with the vast majority of people being low pay migrant laborers. Serving absolut vodka in hotel bars doesn't change that.
Frequent flyers, using the same carrier and travelling in the same cabin class tend to become accustomed to that product. I have a monthly transatlantic return flight with BA, in J.
My master’s book the same seat number on an A350 …. I love it! Now it is home from home.
My experience of LH is admittedly limited to flights between LHR and BER and one BER to DEL, A380 in F. This I found very smart deco wise, service, food and beverage, but totally lacking in privacy. We found sleeping to be difficult, however, not uncomfortable because of the bed or bedding, just too open for us.
The point is even for economy it isn't anything special but they imply through their marketing it is based on the halo from First. There are economy products out there that are as good as economy can be with fantastic crew with less sexy branding, which Emirates is far from in standard but many assume it is the best based on their marketing vibes.
Fyi - EK has A350's being delivered now. Try to stay current if you want to stand on soapboxes.
The A380 halo effect is definitely real, but as long as you're not flying Emirates' 777, I'd say that they're still better than any American & European airline across all cabins.
Meant to say that no airline from the Americas & Europe is better than Emirates.
Did this just happened?
"visualise yourself flying Qsuites or Air France or JAL or something of that kind! ;)"
LOL @Jenna
That's why the world is full of woke snowflakes but always missing part of a brain.
"open, liberal, and tolerant" is relative.
Trump is "open, liberal, and tolerant" compared to Stalin.
Biden or Obama is NOT "open, liberal, and tolerant" compared to Gandhi.
I've flown Emirates First Class on the A380 a couple of times and it's not just the bar, the shower or the quality amenity kits that makes Emirates stand out. Yes the food and wine are exceptional but it's the smaller things like the chauffeur service (Business and First Class) to and from the airport and the transfer to the lounge when arriving in Dubai if travelling First Class that helps Emirates stand out for me
Probably sad he wasn't invited lol. The way he goes on about them with zero criticisms is almost dystopian. Tbh though I don't understand why anyone watches the guy - insufferable and you learn or are informed of nothing.
You actually had a good point about relativity but you ruined it by using "woke" and "snowflakes". I doubt you even understand what "woke" means, just mad you can't be racist and an asshole.
Yesterday was the 20th anniversary of the unveiling of this abomination. No surprise that it shares a birthday with Oliver Hardy, another fat, useless thing.
Lucky loves the vibe of Dubai, guys! A very tolerant and liberal place, with great cappuccinos.
I totally concur as far as building a mystique, most specifically around the showers and bar, however I also give them full marks for service and the soft product. Their F&B is in our opinion the best of any airline and totally makes up for any lesser hard product. Regrettably we are forced to fly BA or AA from here (PHX) when crossing the pond, and both are terrible. It's not the seating, and in fact event though BA dropped first when they switched from the ancient 747 to the new 350, the new biz suites are quite decent. It's the F&B that are so pathetic - BA seems to go for the cheapest they can get away with. That certainly applies to their lounges too.
Emirates along with Qatar Airways exude all the glamour that is otherwise completely lacking with any American or European carrier!
Ben writes: "Virtually any spreadsheet jockey airline CEO would scoff at the thought of removing eight business class seats for a bar. But Emirates’ President knew exactly what he was doing, and boy, was it the right decision."
I just (roughly) did the math:
8 business class seat x $3000 (USD) x 365 days a year x 123 A380 aircraft = Just over
1 billion a year!
I agree that the Emirates FC mini suites are actually smaller than Etihad's FC. Their wine is excellent, though
I've been fortunate enough to fly EY, QR, GF and SV Business Class in the last couple of years, four flights per return trip. I found QR to be unexceptional (apart from being pressured to forgo dining on demand and the freezing cabin on the Omani leased A330). The best and most consistent experience for me: Saudia !
you are absolutely right about the halo effect and aspirational value people associate with emirates but you missed a key point. People flying in economy which in terms of numbers is the vast majority. They dont even know about angled lie flat or caviar. They feel economy in emirates is like business class. They love the IFE with infinite content. the food and even the small gifts handed over to all kids. They walk thru the business class cabin and wonder how much better it must be in business if economy is so good.
To be totally fair, to my knolwdeg Emirates does do plane swaps between A380 and 777s so it's fairly easy to know what you will fly at booking. Some destinations are exclusively flown (non-stop) by the A380, JFK, SFO, LAX, NRT, SYD, MEL, CDG and LHR come to mind. Those are also the markets with the highest yield x demand in the world and for those there is no halo effect: flying EK means flying the showers, bar or one of the most comfortable Y experience.
Now is there two EK experiences depending on the market ? Sure enough. But you know what you get into at booking and if you are lucky enough to live in one of those attractive places, EK is very much what it says it is.
That's very different IMO to QR selling Qsuites or a certain Y pitch and seat width at booking and delivering god knows what when you show up at the gate...
@ Jenna - it might be worth reading the whole sentence which ends with "in the immediate region" which is for sure ture.
As for slave soceity, that is not true. Yes, there is a disparity in wages between, for expample construction workers in UAE and Europe. But, these migrant workers, have not been forced to move to UAE (therefore not being slaves). If they would be able to get job in their country (India, Philipines, Pakistan etc), they would not leave.
Therefore, fault for not securing a soceity where people can work and live is with their country of origin and not with UAE.
The A 380 is simply the best experience for travellers; it is quieter and roomier than any Boeings we have flown on long haul routes. Dubai duty-free also appears cheaper then any other Hub we have experienced and we do break journeys by spending a few days in Dubai - although we could often fly direct with other inferior airlines. Their retention of the A380 is a big draw card for this airline, make no mistake.
We found another snowflake.
Now vlcncflake, just like certain words are relative.
Certain word meanings evolve too, like woke.
Just by trying to link woke with racism only proves that you are actually the only racist here.
Certain words don't, like racist a**hole will always define you.
The 'woke' sensitivity is getting way out of hand for both sides.
I just (roughly) did the math too:
90 F+J x a little $250 halo markup x 365 days a year x 123 A380 aircraft = Just over 1 billion a year!
And no that doesn't even negate your math.
74 business class seat x 80% load factor = 14 empty seats.
So the revenue lost on 8 seats removed out of 14 empty seats = 0.
There's a reason "Alex" is not running an airline or writing an airline blog.
Be fair to ORD, Kor …. Thinking of a rhyming slag for Emirates or A380, is not as easy as saying: “If it’s a Boeing I ain’t going”.
Thanks for your calculation, Eskimo.
But is the ad hominem attack at the end really justified? Does the world need your opinion on Alex' ability to run an airline or write an airline blog, based on a single comment ?
Putting others down makes you feel better, I get it. And anonymity makes you feel like there is no cost associated, but there is, just not to you.
Internet does not have to be this place. Let's start with this Blog's comment section.
Next time you need to feel better, go for a run, bake something, picture yourself in AF business class :o)
But don't put down others that did not come for you.
Ok, Emirates airline have a fantastic fleet of aircraft, but I must point out having the the exceptional cabin Crew and pilots make the airline what it is, a company can only be as good as the workforce.. well done Emirates!
I agree. The 2-2-2 is a non-starter for me. And flying business class without a door (like Q Suites) and no lie-flat? No way. Ben is 100% correct - Emirates has built an amazing halo effect, why else would anyone put up with such an outdated abd inferior hard product? Just a matter of time before the other factors are mitigated by other airlines (I've noticed better and better food on Qatar, and Riyadh Airlines is going to have amazing soft and hard product.). Just a matter of 2-3 years and the halo will be outshown by others.
NonstopDan definitely admitted it, he said he had booked to fly later but cancelled it because they offered him a flight on the inaugural return - I didn't realise the rest were so hush about it as i don't watch them, so thank you.