Review: Delta One Business Class Boeing 767 (JFK-LAX)

Delta did a nice job overhauling the 767-400ER nose to tail but the Delta One seat is narrow. Delta's premium cabin catering is mediocre at best. A touch better than what you'll find on United, but it isn't amazing. The advantage of Delta on the JFK-LAX sector is that it operates wide bodies. Apart from that there is nothing really remarkable about it the service or the product and T4 is a crowded, unpleasant facility at JFK.

I’ve also noticed on my flights into LAX and BUR in the past several weeks we’ve been flying much lower for the last portion of the flight. I believe it is partly related to where the jet stream is currently and partly for flow control into the LAX area.

You mention no usb-c and no bluetooth. Which airlines/airplanes have usb-c? Which have bluetooth?

you need only look at where this flight is compared to the competition.

When AA pulled its 767-200s off the transcons, DL fairly quickly went with an all widebody schedule (nearly all 767s) on JFK-LAX and became the largest carrier in the NYC-LAX market and has remained that way.
Other widebodies are too large for domestic routes and other carriers including AA uses narrowbodies for their "premium transcon routes"

AA, DL and UA will all have A321NEO based premium transcon routes and a few of those might show up on JFK-LAX but they can't replace the capacity the 767 carries so will likely be used on BOS and SEA transcons as well as JFK to destinations other than LAX.

and let's also remember that UA sometimes uses 787s or international configured widebodies on its EWR transcons but also uses 757s which have a smaller seat than the DL 767-300ERs and also do not have direct aisle access.

B6 uses A321s with nice configurations but they don't compete for the same pool of premium cabin passengers as the big 3 because of the lack of lounges, alliances and a global network.

AA largely does not use widebodies on its transcon flights from the NE so arguing about what the 787 or 777 has is largely irrelevant because those aircraft types are not consistently available.

Because it is a domestic flight. That is why you didn’t get the international flight food and bev selection. Makes sense to me but seems to give author a bit of confusion.

@ CRS- -- To be clear, the reason for the confusion is that it's a Delta One marketed flight. For example, at American, if a flight is marketed as "Flagship Business" (as American's transcon flights are), then food and service is more in line with what you'd get on long haul international flights, rather than domestic flights.

@ Richard_ -- It's an increasingly common trend with new products introduced in recent years. There are too many products to list, but most cutting edge business class products offer that nowadays.

Delta hopes the lounge and excellent on-board entertainment (with wifi) is enough for customers to overlook the old plane and inconsistent product, both hard and soft.

Why does it take 50 minutes to serve drinks? That's absurd. Meal and drink orders should have been taken on the ground before departure.

On a daytime 6-hour flight, which is about the same length as some of the shorter transatlantic routes, why is the meal not served in courses?

And why is there no champagne? Or at least a champagne method sparkling wine, perhaps a Mumm or Chandon from California or a cremant from France.

I also wonder whether Delta is hoping to downgrade in-flight catering by steering customers toward pre-flight dining at the restaurant-style Delta One lounge.

United's new configs have Bluetooth. He was talking about wireless charging though, which is in a lot of newer products like JetBlue Mint and various international business class seats

And, I believe, UA markets its transcon flights on 757s or transoceanic widebodies as Polaris but not domestic configured aircraft.
AS has very few widebody transcon flights

Most people on flights of that length want their food quickly. The bed doesn’t matter if you are upright

@ Tim Dunn -- That's not correct. If you look up routes like EWR-SFO, you'll see they're marketed as "Business" and not "Polaris Business" when operated by a wide body or 757.

Very few people are sleeping at 3-something pm Eastern time. Your argument is more applicable to short Boston-London or New York-London flights at night. Delta should very much eliminate the evening food service on those flights and incentivize lounge dining.

Except for a purely domestic flight that's filled with business travelers, they probably want to get the food over with so that they can work and be productive.

Coursed meal service is pointless for domestic imo. You also get Delta One lounge access on both ends of this flight too. I'd rather have proper dining at JFK and LAX anyhow.

You are right on how UA markets its transcon flights
But UA does not use consistent equipment types or configurations

On DL LAX to JFK is always wide body international aircraft. US on EWR to SFO is multiple domestic and international aircraft types. AA DL and B6 have product consistency on their transcons. It is UA that does not

Honestly, you don’t need to defend every single thing that Delta does at every single opportunity.

More crying from our resident alcoholic FNT Delta Diamond bc the price tag isn't high enough for their wine snob taste buds.

Like you realize the point of a flight is not the wine, right?

@Ben to be fair, they serve the exact same meals in domestic F as Delta One on international flights. You see the same boring shit all the time. The meatballs, lasagna, short rib, etc.

It's more about the fact that Delta doesn't have any elevated food offerings, save for a few Asian curated menus, where the difference would be massive.

Shouldn't there be 3 options for dinner instead of 2? Or did they run out of the third one by the time they got to you?

Delta also uses 757s for some of it's premium transcon routes as well.

@ Tim

DL uses 757s on it's JFK-SFO route as well as 767s. So it isn't consistent either.

Flow controls from East->West flights are almost never capped around the Vegas area, because that airspace is designed specifically for that volume. It was almost certainly for turbulence, we had a lot of high altitude turbulence in February when that flight happened, plus strong headwinds often make pilots want to descend early to save gas.

The point of having a business class is for snobs right?

International configured 757s like UA’s. UA also uses domestic 777s and 737s

Delta and United will eventually replace their 757s with premium configured 321s

@yoloswag420

And no one is calling out their terrible catering out of DTW, or lack of to be correct.

This is on going for months now. Especially on international DeltaOne, DTW is the worst, everyone avoid regardless of what Tim Dunn would say.

Doesn’t flying at cruise speed at 24,000 feet burn a lot more fuel?

Most people Tim?
Bed doesn't matter?

Where did ChatGPTim get your data this time, DOT again?

An intellectual called E39 claims that this is an average SkyTeam experience.

Awarded four stars, his knowledges are truly exceptional and proves SkyTeam inferiority every word he speaks.

UA absolutely does not use domestic 777s or 737s on premium transcons. Just like they don’t market it as Polaris. But Tim D is a total wanker and doesn’t stop him from making up his own facts.

Tim Dunn, The Man(?) With Zero Friends

Usually, but the winds at altitude can get very strong. In the winter, they regularly get up to 140 kts in that area, so a lot of times it actually saves gas to stay low and out of the jetstream.

"Delta also uses 757s for some of it's premium transcon routes as well."

Yup, DCA-LAX and v.v. is a prime example.

UA EWR-SFO regularly get 777-200HDs which I believe you are referring to as Domestic 777s. I fly this route on UA a dozen times a year or more and it is a mix of 777-200s with Polaris, 7878s with Polaris, 777-200s with the 8 abreast HD lie flat first class seats, 757-200s with international lie flat 2x2 seating. It is always scheduled for lie flat, not always Polaris seats. Once I had an equipment swap to a 757-300 with recliner 2x2 in first. In all you get Polaris branded bedding, amenity kits, and upgraded food and bev, including two meals each direction and decent wines. Ben is right, it is not sold as Polaris, but "Business".

This looks a lot better than the ratty old ancient 757s that Delta uses on LAX-BOS. But same poor catering, especially that awful cheap wine. Glad to see that the new D1 lounges help compensate for the very poor onboard product.

please tell me you misread what I said.. it is pretty clear for most English speakers/readers.

The best bed in the world doesn't do any good if you have a long-drawn out meal service and can't take advantage of the bed.

Even on longer flights, DL does offer a Dine and Rest option in which flight attendants will serve the meal all as one course except for the dessert cart or presented on a tray.

Even if you don't intend to sleep, some people prefer to receive everything except dessert at one time so, as noted, they can clear the tray and work.

The point is choice. I have never tried to ask for coursed delivery if they are serving it all at one time but I suppose you could try and let us know how it goes.

just like the old 757s that UA uses even on transatlantic flights.

DL has already retired some of the ex-TWA 757s which are international configured.

AA, DL and UA will all have A321NEO based premium configured aircraft, hopefully within a year.

as for food, compare what other airlines offer on US domestic flights.

Skyteam is the worst!

Not many lie-flat J seats could be installed on narrowbodies back in the day—Vantage and Parallel Diamond were among the few that didn’t take up too much floor space, unlike the more space-consuming setups like the A321T First Class that AA uses. Of course, now there are improved herringbone Vantage seats, like those on ITA’s A321neos.

The new thales system can be installed with integrated USB-C, some narrowbodies already have them

It also depends on what aircraft you are flying, the A320/330s don't suffer so much, but the A350 suffers a lot of fuel burn even at FL330 as opposed to FL390/FL410.

correct... and DL and UA both have chosen to keep the 757s in service until the A321NEO premium configurations are in service while AA retired them.

Same thing for the 767s.

Not every aircraft can be the newest and best.

wc,
and the point is that DL's product on the transcons is more consistent than UA's.
all of the talk about the consistency of the Polaris seat on international routes is lost when UA uses multiple versions of aircraft on transcon routes. AA, DL and B6 do not do htat.

that branding is immaterial. The product does matter.

JFK-LAX is all widebodies all of which offer direct aisle access with rare exception for DL. the int'l 757s are comparable for both DL and UA and neither have direct aisle access. Add in the 772s and there is nothing comparable to either Polaris or Delta One.
The only real disconnect in DL's use of Delta One is the ex-Latam 350s and one of them has already been converted, 2 are in mods now, and the rest will be done or out of service by fall.

yolo,
I have never had lasagna or meatballs on DL 1 international flight

and again, look at the competition.
Is AA or UA ON DOMESTIC flights -the subject of this article - consistently better?
the answer is no.

Last two international flights there was no wi-fi during the whole trip. Could do any work.

also, Ben, since you are an avgeek, many of the seatback flight tracking systems show the headwind or tailwind component on an instantaneous basis.

DL's "command center" on some of its aircraft shows this along w/ speed, pitch roll etc.

Next time you are flying out west and see this, check out the detailed flight data if you are on an aircraft equipped with this info.

Avgeeks enjoy it... 🙂

Which doesn't change what you said about DL having product consistency on their transcons while UA does not. Sometimes just admit what you said is wrong, instead of constantly diverting the conversation.

@Tim Dunn

it is pretty clear for most English speakers/readers.

Not sure how did Eskimo understood that, but for sure AeroB13a wouldn't even be close to understanding that.

Never seen a guy who doesn't get his first language.
Who would think that "company" and "economy" are the same terms?

Speaking of that feature - any idea why the “cockpit view” is inhibited below 10k feet? It’s this way on DL and I recently had the pleasure of flying on two UA aircraft with the NEXT interiors - same story. On the handful of AA planes with seatback IFE you can watch the cockpit view takeoff to landing.

I get what you're saying Tim, I'm just asking where did you get that information.

Maybe reading just 1 sentence is too hard without 9 repetitive paragraphs?
Okay. Lets try it your way. I can't fluff 9 like you but let's see.

You're trying to say bed matters for that flight length to most people. I'm just questioning how do you know that is what most people want. There are people who would like to sleep even at 3pm, then there are people who like to eat longer and don't sleep at all.

While I can't fluff about profitability on these paragraphs I'll just put them in as filler anyway. One paragraph fluffed without any material.

But now back to my one sentence question. How did you know what most people would rather do? Did tour beloved DOT publish this data. That shows something like Q3 PBASM - Passenger Bedmode ASM?

Just for the sake of wasting another paragraph, I'll keep repeating the one sentence question. How do you know which preference is for "most people".

Wow Tim, credit when it's due. It's really hard to fluff entirely nothing into 10 paragraphs and you are doing it on every reply.
Compliments to Tim.

UA has the best wines these days transcon and international, similar or a bit better catering on transcon than Delta, but worse lounge option.

I don’t understand why some of you still try to have a rational “discussion” with this guy. He’s either a troll who created this character for fun or he really has some serious mental issues. There’s no point in trying to have a discussion with him. He’s not capable of doing that.

It's a shame that you'd only earn 6 XPs on that flight.

Tim - I'm sure you will poo-poo the comment but JetBlue Mint food is light years ahead of Turkey meatballs and vegan lasagna.
Ben - This sounds more like a UA domestic flight.

AA transcon isomewhat better with food. Serving standard domestic F class food on a D1 flight seems sad and cheap.

As someone who regularly flies AA JFK-LAX in J, the products seem remarkably similar. Even down to the hot chocolate chip cookie. Both have premium lounges (Delta One and Flagship), lay flat beds, serve a meal via tray, offer warm nuts and hot towels. Was expecting to see a bit more differentiation for an airline that markets itself as America's premium carrier. The only big difference is AA uses an A321 on the route instead. While the cabin is smaller, Both J and F have their own bathrooms onboard.

I fly AA A321T regularly in J monthly. The knock on AA is the menu rarely changes. Its chicken, beef short ribs, or fish. Would be nice to have a lasagna option or something different.

What about preordering your meal? Would the food options have been more? Seems a weird two food options if that is the only choice.

I disagree. I value a longer food service onboard. It makes a 6 hour flight seem to go by quicker. I can usually finish dinner and be over Chicago. I am not looking to spend time in a crowded lounge before boarding a flight. I often get to the airport 30 minutes before boarding, especially if is not rush hour.

I'm not sure you have reviewed the 767-300ER product but that's the product flying to most secondary TATL markets (NAP, DSS, EDI, BER, PRG, GVA, CPH and more) with a lot of those being leisure destination for American travellers.
I think a review in a non-bulkhead row to get the full foot cubby experience would be valuable. I would expect a lot of people would try redeeming on those routes for holidays and would need to understand this is what they should expect.

I would prefer eating the salad at a leisurely pace and by the time it's exhausted the main should have cooled to an unappetizing tepidness at best. A cover could at least be placed on the main to offer some degree of insulation. Resembles more of a premium economy experience at best and inexcusable for a flight of such duration.

The low flight altitude may well have been down to winds aloft. I've been on Australian transcons that have stayed below 29000 feet during the southern winter because the jetstream was so fierce at higher levels. I guess the better engine economy at high altitude is outweighed by the wind velocity.

I get that it’s for content but 86k Amex miles makes me wince! For a daytime/redeye combined with an immediate turnaround. I love flying and I’ve done some crazy flights but this sounds brutal and very expensive. I know you cover it with clicks so all good!!

Also some flights on JFK-SFO as well.

"You're trying to say bed matters for that flight length to most people"

try again.

I SAID that on a flight of less than 6 hours, most customers do not want a 90 minute coursed meal service.

the best bed doesn't matter if dinner service is being dragged out.

"How did you know what most people would rather do?"

In my case, observation. and reading the comments here validate it.

The majority of people are not interested in a long dining experience on a flight where you have the opportunity to eat at a decent pace, get the cabin cleared of meal dishes and do whatever else you want - sleep, work or use the entertainment system. Of course there are exceptions.

a long, coursed meal delivery makes sense on an 8 plus hour flight. On a 6 hour flight of which about 30 minutes has to be in takeoff/landing position, a lengthy meal delivery leaves a couple of hours for sleeping.

and airlines do ask customers and instruct their staff.

if you or anyone wants a long drawn out meal service, ask for it and see what happens or fly an airline that offers it - if you can find one.
Delta, and some airlines, offers a faster, single tray service if they have a long coursed service.

Ben, you value amex points at 1.7cpp. Why didn't you pay cash instead of redeeming at 1.5cpp?

Umm Tim hate to break this to you.

But anyone can claim "observation. and reading the comments here validate it."

here's for a try again..

So the 'majority of people' thinks Delta sucks based on 'observation. and reading the comments here validate it.'

AS is the best airline in SEA based on 'observation. and reading the comments here validate it.'

Who needs DOT data when ChatGPTim can 'observation. and reading the comments here validate it.'

I am sorry; but could not disagree more (although I was on a Coffin Class 67 - ATL > SAN).
Seating way past shelf life, uninterested crew, and catering left untouched. The only good thing on this flight were the French chocolate biscuits, ended up being dinner.
Interesting that America's best makes AC look good!

the comment about UA polaris seats and AA flagship seats is incorrect they are rarely flown on domestic routes as delta flies these 767 compared to A321 on AA or 757 / Domestic 777 on UA - this is the second best domestic hard product after JetBlue Mint

And it's a pretty poor experience.