Delta is pushing back its Atlanta-Riyadh route to March 2027, citing regional safety concerns, though weak demand was already a concern.
the next TPAC flight, likely to SIN, probably just got moved up.
in addition, DL is supposed to receive a number of 35Ks in the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2027 in time for launch of more routes by July, even above MNL going to daily.
Obviously good move by Delta, because flying to RUH now (even in 6 months) seems dubious at best, especially if the seats were a hard sell before the recent attacks. (The subsidies simply aren't worth it.) Whether it's SIN, or more frequencies to TYO, SYD, TATL, etc., all better ideas for the airline, its crews, and passengers.
How do you know subsidies ain't worth it @1990_?
Stop talking like Tim Dunn and pretend to know everything.
Do you know how much money PIF has.
Subsidizing Delta might even cost less than building an extra inch on The Line.
Eskimo, no one, not Tim, you, or I, needs further details to know that people dying from literal missiles hitting the airport, repeatedly, is enough… whatever the subsidies may be, they’re just not worth it (for Delta to operate there). The issue isn’t how much money KSA has to waste.
Hence why I'm calling out greedy Ed.
People died.
Subsidies are factored against canceling the low load flight.
If it weren't for subsidies, Ed would have called off since Thursday. Giving him till Friday was already generous.
Do you have sauce or insider info for SIN moving up, or is that just an educated guess, or wishful thinking?
So Tim just to clarify, United now has more flights to the Middle East than Delta? Just confirming that after your bet months ago that Delta was going to be the only US airline to be flying to the Middle East?
And you’re saying Delta is going to redeploy the A350s on TPAC, the only region where their yield growth doesn’t meet their capacity growth (so they literally dilute their yield lol)
They blew it, Timbits, and all out of greed. And who cares about the Long Flaming Turds? The airlines I fly didn't order them, so they're irrelevant in addition to being smelly inferior Airbi.
homeless,
UA most certainly has ordered both versions of the 350; they just couldn't figure out when they really wanted them so delayed the order so long that Rolls Royce says 10 year old pricing no longer applies - which UA wants to argue about.
and Andy,
DL's PASSENGER RASM is yield and DL is carrying far more cargo per flight on the 359s than UA on every other TPAC airplane except the 77W which burns as much extra fuel as the extra cargo it carries. DL's cargo number will only increase when the 35Ks come onboard.
and when you factor in that DL paid 53 cents/gallon less than UA in the 2nd quarter and that number could well be north of 75 cents/gallon by the end of the year, DL can afford to subsidize alot of passenger and cargo revenue through its lower fuel costs and still end up wiht higher TPAC margins.
DL couldn't have come up w/ better timing to grow its TPAC network; there is no US carrier competition to the Arabian Peninsula right now and UA has certainly not given any indication of when it will restart DXB.
UA could, of course, use all of those new 787 deliveries to replace 777-200/ERs if it wants to remotely come close to being able to compete with DL over the Pacific or anywhere else where UA uses its 777s.
Tim I don't really care about this nonsense that you're writing, you were once again proven wrong. Your prediction that Delta would be the only US airline flying to the Middle East when this launched was not just wrong because other US airlines fly to the Middle East already but this route was delayed... Your bet was wrong, you should just admit it.
As you and Gary both discussed over on VFTW. The 53c a gallon is not only misleading its not even correct on a TPAC flight so I don't know why you would say it. You literally said that AK and UA have more west coast flying so pay more. When Delta flies from the west coast, it also pays more. So why don't you follow your own words, and if you can't tell us Delta's fuel advantage to the cent on a TPAC flight, then the advantage doesn't exist - This is the logic you use on every other argument. So show us the numbers or be quiet.
It's Delta, they'll probably just add more frequencies to ICN.
ATL-RUH will most likely be cancelled and never launch.
Finally, we're never going to here the end of how great RUH was, and shifting to TPAC is even greater.
And Ed just like FAA with the 737MAX, are incompetent and took too long to react on the very obvious.
CAAC grounded the MAX immediately, not among the last on the planet like FAA.
Ed should have postponed the flight since Friday.
Oh and did I mentioned that loads on RUH flights are terrible even with a few weeks left.
Another reason Ed should have pulled out sooner.
Subsidies on an empty flight is what kept him dragging until Monday.
Tbh there is potential for demand for RUH. It has a metro population of 8M, that puts it basically in the top 50 cities in the world.
RUH is and shouldn't be about creating a 4th ME connecting hub. It should be about serving their local O&D to destinations, and stimulating traffic that way. No one in Atlanta or Riyadh wants to go to the other place.
Quite frankly, there aren't even a lot of Saudis in the US compared to other Arab diaspora. Or even Saudis overseas tbh. Less than 1% of their population lives overseas, compared to the other Middle Eastern nations where that % is 12, 25, and even 60%.
I just don't see how Delta fits into this picture with an ATL to RUH flight.
@ yoloswag420 -- I agree with you, and it seems like there *should* be O&D demand for so many markets, given that Riyadh is a legitimately sized city. But what I find telling is that Riyadh can seemingly only attract many foreign airlines with a massive amount of subsidies. How do we square that away, exactly? Airlines don't need to be paid huge amounts to fly to most markets that are actually lucrative, so...
Delta's service makes no sense to me. Bastian claims he thinks Americans are going to live Riyadh, though clearly the goal is to get Saudis one-stop service to points across the US, and to get Americans two-stop service between the US and the region. It just doesn't seem efficient, and when you add in the lack of alcohol, it just doesn't seem like a winning strategy.
That is indeed why I said: "I just don't see how Delta fits into this picture with an ATL to RUH flight."
There's genuinely something that needs to be fixed in that country before they try and make this global tourism and business push.
That starts by having your own citizens live overseas to establish connections and local enclaves and spreading the culture. Less than 1% of their population lives overseas.
The KSA needs a complete and total revamp of their public image like the UAE or even Qatar. They need to do some PR and rebrand themselves, there's very little organic demand for Saudi Arabia today, either to or from it.
One huge issue with this flight was that Delta wasn't selling connecting itineraries through RUH onto Riyadh Air flights yet the last time I checked (I last looked when Delta had the cheap award tickets on that flight). That's despite the fact that Riyadh Air has launched flights to many major connecting markets for ME airlines in the last few weeks (including flights to India and Pakistan).
While they won't be the most profitable, you would think the priority would be to get the connecting itineraries being bookable by customers. Otherwise DL's flight to RUH is basically only for people terminating their travels in RUH. Once that is possible, I'm sure the flight will fill up if DL pursues an aggressive pricing strategy (otherwise EY has been aggressively pricing connecting itineraries from their newer US gateways, including connections to other US cities on AA).
RX needs to develop their own network much more. They wanted DL in as a partner but the commercial integration wasn't there even before the security considerations.
and RX and DL both said their primary focus is to develop Saudi tourism and business - but that is pretty hard to do when there is fear about going to the entire region which has now spilled over pretty dramatically onto Saudi Arabia's airports.
DL's partnership w/ RX was about more than just codeshare and even a potential JV in the future. RX wanted DL to help them build the airline in a number of areas including maintenance.
The ATL-RUH flight was never just about normal air travel stuff.
And ATL simply punches well above its weight to destinations all over the world because of DL's massive hub there. The route is far less about ATL per se and more about how well DL serves the US from ATL.
… it sort of was all foreseeable!
BUT, if DL would be clever and used the available capacity of A350 to launch a new route … MAYBE as a charter to avoid long approval times for a scheduled service to fly ATL-MLE instead 3x weeks and i bet, the demand would be there by passengers & cargo too!
Especially since Maldives has seen a heavy increase on US tourists in recent years! Ranking #9 Nationality in 2026 out of all Visitors by number.
Just a silly but reasonable thought! 😉
No more Korea, Singapore or routes, that are simply a high risk again, make good use of the winter season DL people.
now tell us how you fly from the US to the Maldives w/o flying thru anyone of the many no fly zones which the US government says US airlines should respect.
They have added Saudi Arabia overflights to the list.
If DL wanted to go to the Indian subcontinent, it has had ATL-DEL on its "to do" list but says it doesn't work w/ current airspace restrictions.