I answer dozens of questions a week on the ”Ask Lucky” page of the blog, and sometimes I think it makes sense to expand on the questions by answering them here. While the questions might be specific, I think the thought process used in figuring out which award is best can be applicable to a…
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Given David's existing bank of MileagePlus miles, and given that Turkish business class is a top-quality product with a great lounge in IST, I'd say LAX-SFO-IST-ATH is a no-brainer. Yes, it's two stops, but SFO-LAX and IST-ATH are both very short-haul flights. I wouldn't mind a two-stop flight at all, with the majority of my flying on a 10+ hour leg in a high-quality business class.
My hesitation with flying to LHR or CDG and then on to ATH would be that the flight from Western Europe to Athens is not entirely "short haul." It's a 3.5 hour flight, and within Europe, "business class" on BA or Air France is going to give you an economy class seat with a blocked seat next to you (though you'd get a meal, etc). If David and his fiancee want to have a premium-cabin experience on their honeymoon, I'd keep the intra-Europe flying to a minimum, hence I really do think the SFO-IST routing is the ideal one. IST-ATH is under an hour, so the bummer of flying "European business class" is minimized.
I would be *really* careful transiting through SFO, since it's an often-delayed airport (fog/rain = low ceilings = SFO falls apart) and the first flights affected are the LAX-SFO shorthauls. Admittedly, May is usually pretty good, but there's always a chance of fog, especially in the morning.
If one really wants to go this option, either book an early morning LAX-SFO or at least leave extra connecting time. And note either might make the option a bit less attractive.
I would go KLM... I think theirs is a superior business configuration and service (in the 747's particularly) of the ones with a reasonable travel path (taking Virgin off the table). I intentionally route through AMS to Europe and Asia in order to avail myself of the excellent experience and comfort they offer.
since you mentioned Korean... do they have access to full award availability that AF/KLM release to flyingblue or only the same subset that Delta and Alaska can access?
thank you.
Dont forget to look at options with aegean (star alliance) they fly all over the greek islands and to some of the major european hubs as well. Not necessarily the best business class but as an airline they really do look after you!
I flew Austrian biz to Greece over this past summer and had a fantastic experience on both the long and short haul flights.
It's also importat to remember that by using United miles you can also add Aegean flights from Athens to the islands by using layovers and/or open jaws
We did this trip last summer (from LA) using United miles for our anniversary, spending five nights at Mystique in Santorini. Greece is definitely an ideal honeymoon spot.
Given David's situation, I'd really be leaning towards United miles, since that would probably give him what he needs the fastest. I think he wants to have the miles ready to use in June when he's 330 days out. He just needs to open up the Ink and his fiance the Sapphire Preferred and he's there.
On the way out, we went LAX-YVR-MUC-ATH and spent a night in Athens before continuing on to Santorini. On the Vancouver to Munich leg, we were originally scheduled on LH C, which featured their new business class. The day before the flight, F opened up and snagged that. We were the only passengers in the cabin. I've flown NH and OZ F before, but that was simply the best flight experience I've ever had.
The drawback here was the LAX-YVR was on AC Rouge, which is essentially what you'd get on a European business class product. The trade-off on getting that great LH F flight was worth it though, IMO.
For at least one direction, I would consider snagging an LH C flight on the Western half of North America, with the idea of maybe upgrading to F if space opens up within two weeks of departure. Using UA miles, the cost of first is almost prohibitive these days, but a honeymoon is (hopefully) a special occassion, and David would have almost a year to earn the additional miles he'd need. I would only do this though if I was on a plane with new LH C class. Last year that meant western routes like YVR-FRA, SEA-FRA and DEN-FRA were a no go. Almost two years later, hopefully more planes have been refurbished, but I would never spend the additional UA miles needed to fly old LH C.
On the way back we went JTR-ATH-IST-IAD and spent a night in DC before heading back to LA. We flew TK C on the longhaul, and felt it was fine but not really special. Decent hard product, good food and indifferent service. SFO-IST wasn't being flown yet last summer; despite my feeling there are better Star Alliance C products across the pond out there, I'd take that IST-SFO option in a heartbeat. And that lounge in Istanbul is really incredible.
One last thing, I found that A3 did not release award space to the islands until about six months out. I had booked our award to ATH 11 months out, but was able to add on the JTR legs when those opened up. As a UA elite, I was not charged any additional miles or change fees, but that will probably be worth monitoring regardless of David's own situation. This should also be another reason to lean to United miles anyways, as I don't believe adding A3 flights within Greece are possible with any of his other mileage options.
It's too bad he doesn't have many MR points because I actually like Aeroplan in this situation since they allow two stopovers on a roundtrip. No YQ on United, Turkish and Aegean means he could get to SFO on UA, cross the pond on TK, stopover in IST, ATH and an island like Santorini for 110k miles apiece.
@ Lantean -- I believe they have access to the same subset of availability as Alaska and Delta.
GREAT Analysis of options Ben, but to me is simple, go with what you have & don't speculate. I'd choose Turkish for the exact reasons that you mentioned, superior service, space availability out of SFO, the incredible opportunity to stopover in amazing Istambul, their amazing lounge at IST, etc, etc. So, for these reasons it's a no brainier to me!
@ Lucky. Any reason not to apply for the US Airways Premier World MasterCard with the pending merger? Is this the equivalent of 50,000 AA miles with no minimum spend and just an $89 fee?
hey lucky,
looks like you put swiss for the star alliance redemption but forgot to but zurich between "munich and istanbul"
then i guess Korean has nothing... i have searched for VIE-NYC on Alaska website from now until the end of August. no options on AF or KLM at all... not even coach. it's pretty pathetic.
i know it's only one route and 5 month period but it pretty much shows that Alaska miles can't be used on AF/KLM any more, maybe unless you're super lucky...
Lucky, does Korean charge the same high fuel surcharges ($800) for all partner awards to Europe? How about on Delta metal? The mileage required at 80k miles seems like a bargain and UR points are easy to come by, but the fuel surcharges are pretty excessive and bordering on what British and Virgin charge.
My wife and I were in a similar situation but we live in NY so we had more options. Perhaps try to fly domestically thru JFK which then opens up the possibility of SQ suites to Europe if they want to do something truly special. We booked JFK-FRA this summer in the suites and then FRA-ATH-JTR on Aegean using United miles. Just need to open a KrisFlyer account to transfer UR to.
@ Lucky
@ Lantean
@ Bubba Hotep
@ Stannis
First, thank you Lucky for posting this, as I also plan to go to Greece/Europe and it would help me a lot.
I am based in SFO, and from what I read above, the most aspirational business class for SFO-IST is on Turkish Airline’s business class for 80k United miles for one way, isn’t it correct?
And if I book roundtrip award for SFO-IST on Turkish business with UA miles, it would cost 140k/person but I can do route like SFO- IST, ATH and an island like Santorini ?
One thing that I don’t understand is why Stannis said that it will cost “for 110k miles” to do that route? it should cost 70k one way or 140k roundtrip.
Also Lucky, you mentioned Korean Airlines cost 80k miles for roundtrip in business, I think that’s very good deal because it’s better than using 140k UA miles for roundtrip on Turkish Airlines. So the roundtrip using 80k Korean miles is on Korean Air? how to search for award availability?
Regarding the comment about fog at SFO. Is it accurate to say a flight leaving at 1am has less chance of being cancelled because there is less air traffic at that time? How bad is the fog typically in October?
@ dave -- Correct, it's typically bad early and mid-morning, but late at night it's usually less of an issue.
@ John -- A one-way would cost you 70K United miles. And if you do a roundtrip you can indeed do a stopover. The price Stannis quotes is if using Air Canada Aeroplan miles.
The Korean price would be for travel on Air France, KLM, Delta, etc. Keep in mind there will be ~$800 in fuel surcharges. You would want to search availability on Delta's website, and if there's low level/saver space it should be bookable through Korean Air.
@ Ken -- They don't release much space out of LAX, so you'd have to connect, and then intra-Europe you'd be in economy. So I probably wouldn't choose them.
Gotcha. Not many options for AA points to EU, it's unfortunate. Looks like SE Asia/Japan is the sweet spot with CX and JL. And the Middle East with Etihad if you have enough points. I really wish UA didn't devalue on partner awards so much. Really kicking myself for doing our ATW in J instead of F, it would've only been an extra 20k points per person before the deval. And I had plenty of UR points too.
What about Turkish non-stop lax-it's? Is there no way to use AA miles on this flight?
@ Gsw90405 -- Turkish is in Star Alliance, so you could book that with United miles but not American miles. That being said, award availability is extremely limited on that route in business class.
Hi Lucky,
What alliance would be your suggestion if one were going coach from YYC (calgary) to greece ?? Gotta plan ahead here to transfer points ! thanks, susan