Last Friday I wrote about how Cathay Pacific's CEO suddenly resigned. Rupert Hogg had been CEO fo the company since May 2017, and by most accounts did a really good job. He had been with Cathay Pacific's parent company for over 30 years. As he described his resignation: “It has been my honour to lead…
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There may be a vacancy at American in a few months if things keep going the way they have been.
The only people really opposed to the protests are those on the Central Committee in Beijing.
anybodys thought on flying the cathay pacific mistake fare still?.. i have mine booked september 18th. just curious on what your guys thoughts are since all the turmoil, protests. anybody in the same boat as me?
Good to know, then he deserves to go. Hope he gets no job in the remainder of his pathetic life.
@eyesonthepoints my buddy will do it shortly. He’s getting to DaNang tomorrow and start his 3 x US trips for the next 12 or so days. Fingers crossed
“While I have so much respect for what the people of Hong Kong are doing, I also respect that there are many people who are opposed to it.”
Lots of good people on both sides, right?
While it might seem very admirable what Rupert Hogg had allegedly done, the source of the news is from a facebook post created by someone living in New York, working for Epoch Times.
Epoch Times is, at best, a unreliable source with a clear anti-China agenda.
This might very well be true, but I have my doubts
An honorable man.
@Ryan -- It would be pure fantasy if Hogg went to AA and AA started to be more like CX. Then I would actually *enjoy* being an Executive Platinum rather than being indifferent about it.
There's something to be said for corporations domiciled in democratic republics with freedom of speech, freedom of the press, property rights, human rights, etc. It almost makes it worth sitting in an inferior seat with inferior service knowing that the flight crews on those planes have all the same civil liberties that I have and won't face arrest and deportation for exercising them.
@ Bin --- What? I for one hope Hong Kong continues to stand up to China. China will lose if the Hong Kongese stand strong.
What an inspirational move. And the obvious mainland trolls in the comments in any recent article about HK are hilarious.
Color me impressed! Great story. It takes a lot of nerve to do the right thing, and risk your livelihood like that. Hong Kongers are fighting for democracy. While here in the US it seems like we are all too scared to stand up and fight for what we want. Stays Quo is a bi*#^
Maybe he should run for presidency as well, we need such accountable politicians not someone who continuously points his finger at others.
Let's just say there are a lot of irresponsible newspapers out there in HK. Ones that also reported that they had inside sources that China was going to take over HK with armed forces a month ago, especially if you are reading stuff like the apple daily. Nowadays I just read unnamed inside sources as "I'm going to make up some stuff and and I'm going to make it sound serious"
Besides, I'm personally no okay if the pilot of my flight are involved in violence (which at least one of them were and got arrested for) Just my 50c
And honestly there is enough politics out there. You can write whatever you want to but here used to be a nice break from all of those stuff.
We will see if the 9/2 start date for school helps settle things down.
In any case, the PRC will mostly likely want to get this under control before National Day on Oct 1st or they'll lose a lot of face.
I'll be over late September for a few days. It should be interesting.
@Bin. If you are the best and brightest the communist state has to offer, then I think the rest of the world can breathe easier. Geez Bin, I really thought China had good education camps, I mean, schools. But based on your writing, mainland China is turning out some real lame ducks. Nice touch using the Green Bay Packers logo, but with your awful Engrish, nobody is going to believe you are an impartial white guy in Wisconsin adding his 2-cents. Nice try though.
A brave man! And certainly one with more honor than all the people in these comments who are caping for the CCP, in spite of having grown up in free, democratic countries.
@Nathan - Stays Quo? Lol. I found the perfect sub for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/BoneAppleTea/
It's status quo, btw.
@Who is Bin, really? - “Engrish?” You really had to go there? (1) Many native English speakers use far worse grammar than Bin’s post. (2) Bin is s common Chinese name, so if you think he was trying to convince anyone that he was a white guy, then you are just as dumb as he is. Congrats.
Don’t believe this story - it’s FAKE NEWS. Epoch times is vile sinophobic propaganda and should be utterly disregarded. Hogg has recklessly allowed VIOLENT CRIMINALS to continue working on flights putting innocent passengers in danger. He has to go for his negligence
@Robert Schrader
Are you sure they come from a free and democratic country? Just yesterday Twitter stated they had found nearly 1000 fake accounts from China with the goal of undermining the protests.
My take on the comments on Cinese side is that many might be from Chinese officials with the goal of undermining the protesters. Its a sosial media war.
It all gets down to the comfort level democratic societies have when doing business with communists. The stronger China becomes the more democratic principals clash in business dealings. Ironically it the insatiable desire for cheap goods from democratic countries that has fuelled this massive communist business model.
Cathay Pacifc leadership just had a taste of this idealogical clash. In Australia - a democratic country, the communists are protesting against the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement. Talk about irony!
Since when facebook post became a credited source? Aren't they Russian trolls?
@TDA: Yes I had to go there, wasn't planning on it, but then when I knew there were virtue signaling snowflake wieners out there such as YOU, well, I just couldn't resist. Sorry Bro, didn't know your snowflake would melt so fast. And thanks for the congrats. Means a lot coming from someone as virtuous as you.
P.S. What kind of name is TDA? Is that Chinese too? Please educate me oh worldly wise traveler. I'd stereotype what kind of name it is but then your millennial beard would probably melt as fast as your snowflake so I'll wait to be re-educated by you. Standing by.......
@TDA, Thank you for confirming that native English speakers (such as yourself) use worse grammar than Bin. You should have written "he is a white guy" not "he was a white guy" unless he changed his skin color between the time he commented and the time you commented. Writing in past-tense is a sign of poor grammar, usually attributed to native speakers such as TDA. Engrish 😉
SO heartwarming, if true. Any airline would be lucky to have a man such as this. As others have mentioned, AA would be an obvious great place. Stick it to China. I'm sure President Trump (regardless of one's opinions of that man) would support such a move, too, which could help AA. This leader seems to be the opposite of Discount Dougie.
Still, this move leaves me worried about the future of CX and its awesome premium product.
Oh here we go again... the Hong Kong topic is back.
Lucky, I think you like the drama too much.
I think this really shows the magnitude of what’s going on in Hong Kong and how far the people will go to quite literally fight for their freedom. He basically quite a multi million dollar job and the highest position in the company to protect his staff and their freedom. Wow. I think this goes to show how lucky we are in the western world.
If China asked Doug Parker for the list. Doug would do the same noble thing of only putting in one name.
That would be
Scott Kirby!!!
Hats off to Hogg. The world is truly sick and tired of the Beijing bullies , and their thuggish henchmen and lickspittle toadies. Xi and Trump: 2 peas in a pod.
in HK, illegal protest are clearly defined. all rallies requires an application to the hk police. and the police will reply with the NON-Objection response. then this is a legal rally.
in other words, rallies without non-objection response are illegal protests.
and in the past 2 months, the police has been very generous, granting over 100 non-objection responses. even in the amid of the storm, like last weekend, over 10 NORs have been issued.
once again, hk is a society respecting rule of law.
Sure sounds like a honorable man!
I never flew CX, simply too expensive for me, lol. Whatever Hogg brings to a new company, I hope its not CX's price structure.
Fake news, which started its life in the many discussion boards then found the way into fringe media. That’s why you would see none of the reputable media quoting it.
That said it isn’t that far off the reality, it’s quite obvious that China wanted heads to roll and he took the proverbial bullet.
Hope it goes well for your buddy. Rootin for him from over here ha. Appreciate the reply.
And
Thanks for the redit url.
Tbh, I couldn’t find any news source other than a few sites from Taiwan. Can’t put too much credibility into this yet, I have to say.
Soon, Cathay Pacific will have a “political officer” acting side by side with the new CEO.
As an aviation forum wish you paid more attention that the world’s best airline, airport and city state i.e. Singapore has similar history to that of HK but lived under what you westerner so-called “oppression and no freedom”. But thankfully they gained independence from western colonial powers and malay religious state. They are way more strict on China on punishment. Almost all of westerner here pretty much is impressed by Singapore and how the country ran. Let me tell you something uninformed and uneducated westerner. No country is more strict than Singapore on laws. Despite not a communist, they’re very socialist and capitalist at the same time and doesn’t have freedom like the US or HK. No freedom of the press, no freedom of public assembly, mandated national service for male, severe punishment for vandalism, drugs, jaywalk, littering (including capital punishment). But wait, what do they have? Better airport, better airline, efficient transport system, safe street and affordable housing (bigger than hongkies). Almost in all aspect better than HK. So how is China different than Singapore? Long live Lee Kuan Yew and those inspired by him. If HKers pull something like this in Singapore, god bless them all. Let’s see how many hongkies or westerner will call me a ccp bot or degrade Singapore just because it is convenient or deflect the topic. Those who ever said good things about Singapore and SQ and calling out CCP is a complete hypocrite unless you can tell me how CCP is different than PAP.
How was he doing a great job? Cathay was still making a large profit from its main operations during their darkest time. The only reason why they lost a ton of money is the oil hedging that was done when the current chairman, John Slosar, was their CEO. Hogg took over and laid off almost the entire I.T. department, then the 9.4 million personal data leak happened. It cost Cathay a huge reputational damage, and potentially a lot more financially if the leak had happened a few weeks later due to the GDPR... Cathay has close to a monopoly in many routes, and it doesn't really take a genius to turn a profit.
It is not what news says, it is what the news doesn't say. Whats conveniently forgot to mention is that these employees actively engage in publicly releasing passenger information, and target law enforcement personnels and their family members. This is not acceptable anywhere in the world.
@eyesonthepoints - I’m currently sitting in CX First class on the tarmac in Boston, having just landed from Saigon via HKG on the mistake fare. It was perfectly seamless in every way. Don’t worry about it.
@bin - the Chinese government let’s you post on this? So surprising. Here in USA we believe in individual rights.
If this is indeed true and not misinformation, then Mr Hogg, you’re my hero.
On a side note, I avoided Cathay for several years as I felt they had severely declined (especially food and uninspired service). In the last six weeks I have completed four trips with them (2 long haul) and their J product is definitely back in my good graces. Small sampling size but a good start.
"While I have so much respect for what the people of Hong Kong are doing, I also respect that there are many people who are opposed to it."
Why? Stop equivocating. It's okay for you to take a side. Just because two groups are equally passionate about something doesn't mean they are equally right.
Hogg gets fired
Hogg gets hired by AA
Democrats win new election
China and the US two communist countries
Hogg needs to give names of all freedom fighters.
Hogg gets fired again
Singapore airline and changi airport dubbed best airline and airport in the world. One thing people forgot is that Singapore is authoritarian single party state with no freedom of public assembly no freedom of press and severe punishment on vandalism. But wait. They have larger and more affordable housing than hongkies. How is china different than singapore? Where’s the hate for Singapore? Hypocrites!
@eyesonthepoints we just flew them yesterday on mistake fare from hanoi with no problems....cathay first was lovely as usual
@Bin
Your name should be Bitter...
Use your real name, comrade.
"Hogg has recklessly allowed VIOLENT CRIMINALS to continue working on flights putting innocent passengers in danger"
Yeah, no. I doubt any of the passengers are in danger. Nice propaganda though...
"I think you like the drama too much"
Or the add/click revenue these articles generate 😉
You JUST landed, and the first thing you did was open the internet to check out this site and comment? Ok then...
No way he will get another top post at any airline including AA. China is too important of a market and they will make sure to ruin any airline that dares pick him up. Basically applying their own social credit score to foreigners. Like what they're trying to do with Cathay now by banning anyone who has participated in a strike.
1. This is not a reliable source -- and thus far no one is reporting these details. It may well be true, but wait for better sourcing.
2. Don't equivocate and both side this. The only side to be on is that of the protesters, not the Chinese dictatorship. These men and women are braver than anyone on this forum, up against a world power bent on destroying democracy.
@Who's Bin really - Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Your personal attack on Bin and grammar shaming on tda is really low and petty.
Good riddance. No one wants another 9/11. Lived through it once is one time too many. Maybe the assclown should've kept his mouth shut and not hold a press conference picking sides. Shareholders don't give 2 flying squirrel nuts about his personal opinion. Be a professional and look at the bigger picture.
Please don't share fake news, this is clearly false. It would provide so much hope if HK C levels were this noble, unfortunately there are probably next to none.
The CAAC announced that Cathay complied with its requests. They would not have done so if Hogg only put his own name on the requested name list of protestors. Moreover, the pilots would not have been fired if their names were not provided.
@Robert Schrader
It's funny that you think it's a shame for people growing up in "free, democratic countries" (I'm assuming that you're talking about America?) to be pro-CCP in this HK turmoil. Actually on the other side of the firewall, millions of mainland Chinese netizens are comparing what our gov had done in cracking down the Occupy Wall Street movement and laughing at our hypocrisy.
I mean it is sarcastic if you think about it: we had little problem with our gov calling those OWS protestors "terrorists", beating them up on the streets, and arresting thousands of them; we were also okay with our gov surveilling the while world, including Angela Merkel who was supposed to be one of our strongest allies; but we just cannot take HK police using tear gas and beating up some protestors, with the tacit support from the Communist Party. Sure, we're way better than China in terms of freedom/human rights/democracy, but are we really that excellent to condescend to them? And are we really capable for taking the responsibility if we insist on having things in our likings? I hope that the mess of the Arab World has not been forgotten by any of us, even though we refused to take any significant amount of refugees and left all that mess to Europe.
Lucky this is unverified news... The source of this story is really dodgy. There's much misinformation from both sides right now. Unless you published this just for clickbait?
I really think you should do fact check about what you are posting Lucky. There is not any reliable news source backing up the story. And logically speaking, this alleged behavior of Hogg is probably the silliest thing a executive of a large commercial company can do: misbehavior against compliance.
The narrative about people feeling "unsafe" on Cathay planes crewed by "violent" staff is just pure propaganda. Nobody has been convicted, so everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Moreover, it is well-known that the police have been using mass arrests to meet a quota and the use of the term "riot" was deliberately manipulated and abused by the HK Govt to try and deter people from expressing opposition to the regime.
there is no moral equivalence between the two sides so stop trying to be even-handed, Lucky. This is a classic fight between good and evil.
Hope this is true.
But anyway thank you for sharing this.Like a bright light in a rainy day.Remind people these is still sunshine somewhere.
Have respect for Mr. Hogg.Also have respect for you Ben.
Again thank you very much.
If Hogg wanted to do the honourable thing he should have put Slosar’s name on the list.
I changed my mind, lol. Hoggs could still be an honorable man, but be careful, this is a contentious topic, it's probably the best to have some solid sourcing first.
It’s always a pleasure to see the pro-China trolls rearing their ugly heads at any hint of an anti-communist sentiment. We in HK just ignore it nowadays although at first the sounds of locusts can be a little startling... you begin to understand their prisoner like mentality growing up behind the wall! Sad, really!
"If Hogg wanted to do the honourable thing he should have put Slosar’s name on the list."
Or, just for fun and giggles, Xi Jinping's name.
Have to see, no other news source but this one highly questionable Taiwanese website has picked this up - as much as I would like this to be true it’s very likely this is fake news. As someone else pointed out, the CAAC confirmed Cathay had complied with listing names BEFORE Hogg resigned.
Lucky,
You can see “both sides?” How can you equivocate like that? Perhaps you don’t want to alienate Chinese readers, or you really are that determined to remain non-political. Understandable.
But travel IS political, and to pretend it’s not is denying reality, and avoiding moral stances when a place is in existential political crisis is normalizing the unambiguous authoritarian evil behind it. It’s not all yuan and cents. Think about the Hong Kongers you have relied on when you’ve been on Cathay and in HK. This is THEIR freedom at stake, and you have a platform on which you can, at the very least, if you won’t suggest any support for the people, decide to NOT say, “Oh, I see the dictatorship’s side too.” That’s wrong.
The story of Mr. Hogg only sending his name in is probably not accurate; however, it is quite obvious that he did support the employees' rights to freedom of speech.
Disinformation is quite a battle in the Internet these days. Check out the NYT article titled "China Is Waging a Disinformation War Against Hong Kong Protesters." I have seen footage of the "violence" in Hong Kong, and I can't imagine anyone who had seen them would buy into any of China's propaganda. That's why another 1 million+ protest took place last weekend. Sure, there were a few pro-China pro-police protests in Hong Kong, but they're clearly not the majority if you look at crowd sizes and who were in the crowd. In the past, there were documented paid protesters in these pro-China protests.
Epoch Times is created by the Falun Gong, and Falun Gong also has a TV station that can be viewed in the USA. I am not a fan of Falun Gong, but a lot of their criticism on the Communist Chinese are valid. In fact, their TV channel has a number of reporters on the ground in HK to cover the protests, and some of them got attacked and all documented live! Just like anything else, always questioned the source of information before taking them as facts.
Back to Cathay, the question is whether Cathay is back to the good side of China. Only time will tell. I personally am so pissed off that I have decided not to fly any Mainland Chinese carriers in the foreseeable future.
@Lucky, this is totally unverified and probably not accurate. Please don't contribute to the spread of fake news, at the very least their should be a significant disclaimer added to this story.
@eyesonthepoints - I have right through all the protests and never a problem. Go for it!
This is was meant as an brainwashing severity test right?! How gullible does one have to be to believe in shite like this?!
"@jw ...we need such accountable politicians not someone who continuously points his finger at others."
I agree 100% with JW good thing Obama is gone - just one example he tried to blame the disaster that is Libya on Cameron. Obama is responsible for way more deaths than Trump.
One can only hope a competent person leads AA and shakes up the airline and its service. Rupert Hogg would be good.
@tda. Exactly. Thought this on another occasion where Lucky said something similar about another situation. Pick a side, Lucky, You can't please everybody.
On a side note... How does Doug Parker still have a job ?
How does Trump have a job?
Why do people with no human decency get placed in such high positions?
@jkjkjk
"How is china different than singapore?"
Just curious, does Singapore also have big Internet firewall to censor foreign websites from its people, not counting blocking of porno sites?
Ben, If you don't know shit about the Hong Kong politics, please keep your mouth shut.
The Hong Kong protest started up as a democratic movement, then turned into a violent nativist protest. Maybe you should go to Hong Kong, see what they did and listen to what they said before making stupid statements.
Hogg is covering pilots who participated in activities to assault police and destroy public facilities, flight crews who illegally leaked passenger information. No matter what's going on with the protest, none of these acts within the airline business shall be tolerated. Don't try to mix politics with aircraft security. Would you like to board a plane if you know the pilot is one of the violent protestors?
The US has paid for this years ago and I don't think the US government or FAA will allow this if the same thing is happening on United/AA/Delta. So stop the double standard and hypocrite respect. Hogg deserved to be fired by the board of Cathay.
Why is this post still up, given that it has been debunked as entirely fabricated by the protest movement in HK?
I'm a long-term reader of this excellent blog since 2012, and have to say I'm a bit disappointed at the editorial standards if this is allowed to be left up. Would be great if Lucky could respond with a comment.
@CuriousCat,
Look up how Singapore is ranking on the Press Freedom Index. Your freedom of speech in Singapore is no stronger than in China -- the former is just far easier to control given Singapore's small size and restricted geographical area.
The Beijing shills/trolls must have been instructed to make oblique references to 9/11 in any comments on the Cathay pilots ( trying to suggest that the situations are similar , and that it might resonate with Americans). These references keep coming up, here and elsewhere, risible and absurd though they are.
Twitter has already closed 200,000 mainland-based accounts that were deliberately spreading misinformation about the protests and the source of funding.
The bottom line is that this will put a big dent in the Cathay frequent flyer program and will have a huge deterrent on those of us who want to travel to the Far East.........there are going to be a lot fewer trips booked through Hong Kong no matter which side of the fence you are on..........
I partially take back what I said, that Lucky should be ashamed of his equivocating.
The pro-fascist trolls and brainwashed believers are the real shameless ones. Calling the protests a “violent nativist” movement so badly distorts the truth that it’s disgusting. 30% of the population has been marching the streets, and except for the airport, it only turns ugly when the police make it so.
Since this isn’t a politics blog, I understand Lucky must feel like he could be popping his livelihood if he goes down the political route here, considering the people who rear their heads when he equivocates IN THEIR FAVOR. The pro-fascists wouldn’t be happy unless he called the protests astroturfed by America.
It’s a rock and a hard place when your travel blog has been thrust into this choice by a monumental event such as this. Still, I wish you’d be brave. They win by this kind of both-sides gaslighting.
@SH
"Look up how Singapore is ranking on the Press Freedom Index. Your freedom of speech in Singapore is no stronger than in China — the former is just far easier to control given Singapore’s small size and restricted geographical area."
I was referring to Internet, but about Press Freedom, does Singapore kidnap people for secret trials that might end up with death sentences?
@CuriosCat,
The Singapore government has a range of tactics to suppress the opposition including internet censorship (although not as heavily as China's - but again that's because Singapore's population is infinitely easier to control given the small size) - several people have been driven to bankruptcy by the ruling party through dubious methods. Protests are completely outlawed in Singapore, except for in designated "speakers' corners".
The point is that Singapore can hardly be used as some kind of model society for Hong Kong to strive for if democracy and free speech is what the population is after. That being said, Singapore is doing much better than Hong Kong despite having neither of these things... go figure.
@SH
"That being said, Singapore is doing much better than Hong Kong despite having neither of these things… go figure."
Doing much better from more stability, unlike Hong Kong with China threatening next door? Any restrictions on who can be candidates for elections?
Who gives a shiit what happens to HK? Lol just give us our decent first class seats with reasonable redemptions. The country can suffer for all I care
@CuriousCat
I don't know how Singapore came into this topic. But I'll chime in, "Section 377A" illegal even in private? So much for privacy in Singapore.
On a funny note, 337 was inherited from, yep British Empire. The same empire that plays some part in HK protests. I say HK shouldn't blame China. Go blame the British Empire for colonizing your home just so they can sell more narcotics to Chinese people.
And I almost forgot, I feel very sorry for the kids in Hong Kong. If they spent more time in school and studied history they should realize that they were unfortunate to be in this geographical location. Before those kids had to fight the extradition bill against China, their ancestors could do nothing against the "British extra-territorial rights", which is much much worse than the extradition bill. And that is from the same pre 1997 British that gave those kids the idea of Democracy or Freedom.
No country is perfect. I do agree with @SH, the smaller the country and population, the easier to control and brainwash people (not that I does or doesn't happen there). Can't say if LKY dynasty has every snatch people from the streets or not, if they do, they did a pretty good job keeping quiet.
Enjoy your summer war, stay peaceful, stay away from airports, and don't forget school starts in a few weeks. See you all again next summer, there is always a reason to protest Beijing.
@Phil -- "Who gives a shiit what happens to HK? Lol just give us our decent first class seats with reasonable redemptions. The country can suffer for all I care"
OK ... your desire is solely about "... decent first class seats with reasonable redemptions," but what if HK's sufferings ultimately prevent them from giving you what you so desire? Would you care then?
Adding my voice to those who have branded as fake news the story that Lucky repeated from social media claiming Rupert Hogg handed over a list containing only his own name to Chinese regulators. Just look at what SCMP aviation correspondent Danny Lee (who generally knows what he is talking about) posted on Twitter (the capital letters are his, not mine):
EVERYONE: STOP TWEETING ABOUT RUPERT HOGG RESIGNING, REFUSING TO SUBMIT NAMES OF STAFFERS TO BEIJING.
THIS IS FAKE.
(AND ALSO DOING MY HEAD IN ALL DAY)
@Eskimo
Before those kids had to fight the extradition bill against China, their ancestors could do nothing against the “British extra-territorial rights”, which is much much worse than the extradition bill.
Are you saying that “British extra-territorial rights” allowed British visitors in Hong Kong to commit crimes there but not get prosecuted there. And once they returned to Britain they would then totally escape any prosecutions?
So Hong Kong's originally proposed extradition law could force Hong Kong citizens breaking rules there to be legally sent to China for prosecutions.
Might this look like China imposing its own form of "extra-territorial rights" upon its citizens in Hong Kong (similar to British extra-territorial rights)? Commit crime in Hong Kong but not get prosecuted there. Then get legally sent back to ethnic home (that is ... China) to face actual prosecutions?
@CuriousCat
If you studied history in school, you would understand “extra-territorial rights” better.
And no it's not a form of “extra-territorial rights”, there is no extra territory, it is exercising Chinese laws on Chinese territory. Fact is after 97, Hong Kong is part of China.
How China wants to deal with SAR is not up to the SAR but up to Beijing. So far (since 97), they are most of the time being quite fair (yes, the world knows about the bookseller or HKNP) to the SAR. But if HK is making too much noise, there is no guarantee what China will do between now and 2047. Don't forget Xi is now the eternal leader, he remembers.
Do you think that the peoples’ complaints are illegitimate?
“Sovereignty” is not a valid explanation or excuse if you don’t also say where the greater good overrides it. Point in case:
If you studied history in school, you would understand “extra-territorial rights” better.
And no it’s not a form of “extra-territorial rights”, there is no extra territory, it is exercising German laws on German territory. Fact is after 39, Poland is part of Germany.
How Germany wants to deal with Polish Jews is not up to the Polish people but up to Berlin. So far (since 39), they are most of the time being quite fair (yes, the world knows about the Gestapo and the camps) to Poland. But if the Jews are making too much noise, there is no guarantee what Germany will do. Don’t forget Hitler is now the eternal leader, he remembers.
Not making that comparison in Hong Kong itself. But your explanation is the same “sovereignty” line the CCP is currently pushing in the UN to justify their other violations of human rights.
I was born in Hong Kong and I don't support the violence and the protest. The main issue with the protest is that they are not even protesting agains the right people. The elites who controlled Hong Kong real estate and government are the ones who is causing the widening wealth gap but yet somehow this get blamed to China; who btw is not even governing Hong Kong.
I am ok with protest in general, but at least protest for the right cause.
Do you think that the peoples’ complaints are illegitimate?
No, they are not illegitimate. On the contrary, they had so much freedom, that they could come out and protest (compare that to other minorities in China). What is illegitimate here is closing down airports. Violence is also a big no for both sides, but then I'm not here to argue who shot first, who is on 'self-defense'. Too late for that now.
You are trying to make a point here with Hitler, unfortunately you are overlooking the big differences here
1. HK was never 'occupied' nor invaded by China, especially by military force. The British did. It's actually the complete opposite, HK was returned to China, just like Poland was liberated. Your argument actually strengthen Beijing.
2. You are comparing, an ethnic group to citizens, not the same. Not that China isn't doing that somewhere else. They do with the Uyghurs, but not at genocide level. But that is not the case here in HK. They didn't single out any group or ethnicity.
3. Hitler being eternal leader is debatable, since he didn't live that long to lead. Xi on the other hand, abolished his term limits, he could rule (lead) China for a very long time.
Not making that comparison in Hong Kong itself. But your explanation is the same “sovereignty” line the CCP is currently pushing in the UN to justify their other violations of human rights.
Correct, you can't compare your statements with HK. But yes that is what China is doing somewhere else, not in HK. The good news for HK is they have 'a lot more' human rights than other minorities like the Uyghurs or Tibetans. Look at how Beijing deal with Tibet in 2008. HK never directly faced the military police, yet.
I'm not picking sides here. HK got it much easier than Tibet.
But closing down airports, and if so 'according to many here' faking news to make a martyr of CX CEO doesn't shine a positive light on HK at all.
@Eskimo
If you studied history in school, you would understand “extra-territorial rights” better.
And no it’s not a form of “extra-territorial rights”, there is no extra territory, it is exercising Chinese laws on Chinese territory. Fact is after 97, Hong Kong is part of China.
*****
I never said anything about land territory being part of "extra-territorial rights" in my post! Instead, I think I'm saying similar to what you said, except overlaying inverse about China apparently imposing its own "extra-territorial rights" upon Hong Kong citizens, by not letting Hong Kong handle them, but forcing them to get "returned" to China for prosecution, instead?
@AnthonyWC
I am ok with protest in general, but at least protest for the right cause.
*****
Last I heard, those protests originated against proposed Extradition Law! What's your issue about a wealth gap?
Doesn't Beijing govern Hong Kong, by proxy, since no candidates for government office there can run without Beijing's prior approval?
@CuriousCat
LOL, my point is HK is China, no running away from that fact. I also try to point out HK endured even worse under “extra-territorial rights”, yet they survived. TBH, it doesn't matter if China can officially extradite or not, if they wanted they would.
@AnthonyWC
Wealth gap issue is everywhere not just Hong Kong. Even China can't solve wealth gap. But here is the thing, do you thing coming out to protest will solve anything? You are better off working and earning money rather than spending time protesting. Of course, if unemployment were to jump over 10% then there should be enough people with enough time to come out protest (while waiting to hear back from job applications).
@Eskimo
my point is HK is China, no running away from that fact
*****
Yes, technically correct, thus one-country-two-systems is already meaningless?
Are you sure this is true? If so, I'm surprised the SCMP (HK's English-language paper of record) hasn't reported it.
It would certainly be admirable, if true.
But this version of events seems much more likely:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/transport/article/3023273/hong-kong-protests-have-caused-severe-turbulence-cathay
Goes to show Mr Hogg was ignorant of international politics. How clueless could he be? Businesses should always stay out of politics. You should never bite the hand that feeds you. It's really common sense. Mr Hogg as a CEO should have known better. There is a legitimate security concern here. Who knows what the staff or pilot can do to sabotage China and its people? I don't think China is being harsh here. It's just pure stupidity from Cathay Pacific.
"I also respect that there are many people who are opposed to it."
Excuse me, what? Long time lurker and fan of this blog, but saying that you understand why people oppose Hong Kong's last stance for a shiver of democracy from your privileged first class cabin is just offensive. I would have expected more from you.