Review: Japan Airlines Business Class 787 Dallas To Tokyo

Having flown in JAL first dozens of times (always paid ticket), the experience has always been stellar. Flew in biz a couple of times and the service was very good. It's impressive how Japanese value customers as if they were royalty.

I flew Japan Airlines to Singapore last year. LAX to Natita in first and Narita to Singapore in business. I found hunting an award with business on the second leg to be challenging and ultimately unnecessary. This is because the Singapore flight arrives at midnight so I was trying not to sleep and JAL has the best room in economy out there anyway. The first class is amazing though.

@Ben

When the cabin is too warm do you ask the crew to turn the temperature down? If so, do they usually honor that request?

As someone who loves Japanese food, I was drooling over the menu. Loved it.

I find the japanese options on Japanese airlines good even in economy class. I usually won't eat economy class food, but ANA and JAL are the only airlines where I will.

Gentle prod: the reason that we see feet squeezed into small footwells these days is because people like Lucky have praised those configurations to the high heavens for half a decade. And carriers (mistakenly) believe that's what we all want.

You asked for those configurations, Lucky. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Love love LOVE JAL.

I'm surprised to read they offered PTO drinks. They generally don't offer them in J (even when there is plenty of spare time on the ground) so interesting to see they were offered.

I've not flown then for about a year or so, is this a new thing?

I think two hours is very reasonable for a full day flight service on a long haul flight.

To be honest I think anything less would be a little rushed. A shorter night flight of course i'd like things wrapped up quickly.

I’m not as keen as the Apex Suite as you are. I actually prefer a bulkhead on a seat like United’s new Polaris seat. Every bit as spacious and the footwell is huge and does not feel restricted at all. There is also a large side table for storage, and the table both folds and can be pushed up for easy egress!

How good was the coffee?

Lucky, when did JAL open up the window seats for assignment? I have a future JAL flight in business and all the APEX window seats are blocked.

This product is great in the window seat as you say, for a single. I think it is terrible if you get an aisle seat or if you are traveling with a companion, as I just did. Especially on the 777, there is no good option for two people. We ended up taking a window and an aisle, but it was super awkward. First of all, you can hardly see the other person. Plus someone was sitting on the other side of the aisle, and I felt like she was traveling with us since I could see her so easily, but no one else. She was talking to my wife and having a much easier time seeing her than I did.

For couples on the 777 I'd probably recommend the two sides of the aisle more than anything. The 787 the two center aren't bad, and they stagger better than on the 777 for more privacy.

It almost always comes down to the crew. We flew JFK to Narita in J for the first time a couple of months ago and found the crew to be exceptional and the service to be on par with our experience in their F product. So much so, I felt that we did not need to make an effort to find F award space if J was always this fantastic. From the sound of your review, not all J flights on JAL are created equal! We both also loved the Apex Suite!

@Alex. We opted for the two aisle seats on the 77W and it worked great for us and though I was nervous the seats would not be great based on Ben’s reviews, we loved them and they were super seats.

I took this flight a week after it started up. The food was great, the Japanese option was a 3x3 grid of 9 different little bites. Do get the window seat though, even if flying with someone.

I flew JAL in business from Narita to Bangkok on a 787. I thought the seats seemed pretty narrow but then again I had come off a Singapore business class flight a week prior which may have messed with my perception. Service was great but I gotta say their IFE was not super intuitive and quite frustrating to use. The selection of entertainment was good though.

The Apex suite is my favorite business class amongst those I've tried (not a huge list and no ME3).

For those looking, if you take an aisle seat you get a great storage area that takes up the space behind the offset window seat.

The warm cabin issue seems to be a constant problem with various airlines. To me the cabin temperature is as important as the food. A warm cabin makes for a lousy flight.
Is it a fuel issue in that running the A/C packs burn more fuel, or is it because there are no longer blankets in economy and the crew does not want to respond to the complaints from econ passengers?

@Lucky and others,

I am flying to Tokyo this summer. I have booked Delta business on the retro-fitted 777 with the Suites through Virgin for 60,000 miles MSP-HND. If I get the option for JAL F on the 777 I am going to book that with AA miles. If J opens up on JAL, would you or others cancel the delta flights for JAL business for 70K miles or keep the Delta suites if JAL F doesn’t open up?

How come on these reviews you don't put how they were booked anymore? Did you pay full price? Booked with miles? Sponsored trip?

I think that part of these blogs is very important for people trying to maximize their points' value and strategy.

@ ryan -- Ben always lists the costs for the trip in the introduction post: https://onemileatatime.com/sri-lanka-trip-report/

Can anyone explain why Asian airlines keep airline cabins warm? Do they not know it makes (most) people physically uncomfortable (and dehydrated)? I live in Asia— It’s certainly NOT "cultural" to sweat through a f*cking cardigan!

Aside from that, in my experience JAL business class is just OKAY (in its weight class), while First is phenomenal.

—JRL

The wi fi works only on one device or can i be split like on the ipad and when log out on ipad can be used on Iphone?

So i’ve gotta ask. Why don’t you just tell them to turn the temperature down in the cabin? I always have this problem on JAL and they comply (although ANA turns it down more, which makes a me slightly prefer them even if product is not as good). Am i being rude by doing so?

@ Too Nashty — I do the same, and while occasionally I'm given a surprising look, it's reasonable to expect a comfortable environment in a premium cabin.

Pajamas, cardigans, socks, comforters, blankets.... How about the overlooked absoulte RIGHT to have ventilation?

—JRL

I took this flight (the other direction) also in seat 8A! I agree, it looked to be the best business class seat out of all of them.

I am surprised by the final analysis as I have flown JAL in business class and I could not look up as FA's were running over to me every time wondering if I needed anything else. Seats, service and food were wonderful.

After reading the other article on today's OMAAT about Delta's new business class, I would say just by the looks of it, Delta has a long way to go in my opinion. I will be flying Delta to BCN on business class this year so I will know at that time. But no US based airline can match Asian airlines service from FA's in business class.

Absolutely love JAL J. Flown it more than anyone else over recent years.

I’m on my way to becoming a Sake somellier, next exams next month. Whilst dry is a word we’d use with wine in the west it does not necessarily work in the Japanese lexicon and is not really positive. Clean taste might be a better word to use, although still not the right word if you want someone crisp and dry like a pinot Grigio from the Veneto. I’d also say that that kind of dry tastes is a lot less popular than flowery, fruity or estery flavours you often find. Next time you are in Tokyo (or San Francisco, Sydney or Melbourne for that matter) you could have a lot of fun doing a Sake tasting or even a class, or visit a brewery. I know a great one not far from Narita which you could visit on a long layover.

@Mike - I find it's cultural. North American carriers tend to keep temperatures cooler, think 19-22c, whereas Japanese/Korean carriers are usually 25c+ (I think KE standard is something like 27c!).

The funny thing is you'll usually see the Japanese or Koreans wearing the cardigans and bundled up in blankets even in the stifling cabins!

I was upgraded about two weeks ago from Premium Economy to Business class on the 787-9 from Sydney to Narita. So I enjoyed seeing the detailed review here of a comparable product.

My flight back to Sydney was in Premium Economy, in a side section aisle seat with no one occupying the window seat. I had flown the 787-9 in Premium Economy between Sydney and Tokyo and return.

In the interim I have flown Japan Air multiple times between Vancouver, SFO, and SAN and NRT on outgoing or return segment on the 787-8 in business and the 777 in First class.

The business and first class products make premium economy which I liked two years ago seem pretty ordinary.

They will turn down the temp if you ask.

I fly this route on a monthly basis. The FAs are happy to cool down the cabin if asked.

If travelling with a child (7 yo) would you still opt for the side seats or would the centre paid be better?

If you have a window seat, there is storage at the top of the seat behind your head!

"due to the lack of air nozzles"

Give it a rest. Tiring of the persistent whining about it.

When the nozzles exist, it is just blowing cabin air at you. It is not cooler air.

You want some air blowing on you? Bring a battery or USB powered mini-fan with you since it is such a big deal to you.

Funny how you never mention that you asked the cabin crew to turn down the temperature.

The table swivels so you can get up during meal service. I just got off HND -> SFO on J and I found the apex suites to be incredibly nice and comfortable. The window seat is the best product for someone flying solo. The lack of storage is a down fall for sure tho. The service and the food (japanese meal) were incredible and very attentive.

Thanks for the review. How was JAL's special coffee?

@mike. Outside air temperature at 35000 ft is probably - 40 deg so aircon is not needed. Cabin feed air must be warmed but too often overheated.

I was in Japan 2 months ago. It might be 5c outside, but hotel room temperature is always set at 25c! And they have some very warm duvets...how the Japanese sleep like that I have no idea. So yeah, pretty much a cultural thing.

Bump in case anyone has an opinion on this:

@Lucky and others,

I am flying to Tokyo this summer. I have booked Delta business on the retro-fitted 777 with the Suites through Virgin for 60,000 miles MSP-HND. If I get the option for JAL F on the 777 I am going to book that with AA miles. If J opens up on JAL, would you or others cancel the delta flights for JAL business for 70K miles or keep the Delta suites if JAL F doesn’t open up?

I agree with Ed, above. I'm no Sake expert, but have lived in Japan for 13+ of the past 21 years or so, and have drank my share of Sake with many of my Japanese counterparts. I've never heard the word "dry" used in association with Sake. I can imagine the confusion on the poor FA's face as she tried to figure out what the hell this passenger was asking. Lucky, based on your writing, I'm under the impression you are monolingual. Studies show that monolingual people are less able to express themselves, i.e., lack articulation, compared to multilingual people.

By the way Ed, please post the name of the Sake brewery near Narita that you mentioned.

@ Ash -- I'm actually bilingual (German is my first language), but I appreciate your not-so-veiled insult (hopefully I'm articulating myself well enough for your liking).

As far as dry sake goes, you're absolutely right that I'm no sake expert. However, I do enjoy sake, and have long requested dry sake, and that has never been met with confusion. A few websites that talk about it:
http://www.sakeexpert.com/saketaste.php
https://kurand.jp/en/4783/

Or maybe the person writing sakeexpert.com is just monolingual?

I'm sorry Lucky. And yes, you did a fantastic job articulating yourself.

I've seen many of my US based colleagues come through Japan over the years and are totally unable to adapt their English to the English (barely) spoken by some Japanese. These colleagues are all monolingual, and it shows. My frustration with my colleagues caused me to jump to conclusions about you.

As for the sake argument, no reason to beat a dead horse. Safe travels.

@Ash

Since you're Mr. Japanese expert. I'm curious how you and your numerous Japanese counterparts would translate 辛口 orドライ? Same question for the soon-to-be somellier above. I've only spent a paltry 2 years there but I've seen 辛口 sake countless times and have never seen confusion when talking about it as if the flavor description of "dry" doesn't exist in the language.

Perhaps the FA wasn't familiar enough with English and Western Accents to understand the transition of ドライ->dry and then modifying to "driest"?

Cheers.

@ A passerby
I never claimed to be a Sake expert, but like I said, I've lived here 16+ years. I've drank with various Japanese counterparts, dozens of them if not more, on hundreds of different occasions, and have never heard any of them verbally describe Sake as dry.

Spicy, Dry. That's how I would translate those words, respectively.

And who knows why the FA didn't understand what Lucky was talking about? You're guess seems reasonable.

Take care.

@A passerby
I wanted to wait to see what your response was to my post above before adding the below, because I had some hints in there that I wanted to see if you picked up on. But it’s tax season, and I have to get some things done, so I’m knocking this out now.

For the benefit of the 3 or 4 other people who might still be reading, @A passerby used Katakanaドライ to write “Dry.” Katakana is one of three Japanese writing systems/scripts. Katakana is the script reserved for foreign words and concepts. Some of you might say at this point, “What? The Japanese don’t have a word for "dry’?” Of course they do: 乾かす 干す. In English, “Kawakasu.” That means, for examples, a person who dries off after a swim, or clothes that dry after being washed. But the Japanese have no native word of “dry” when it comes to describing alcohol. Therefore the Japanese imported the word and concept from abroad. Frankly, there’s no better evidence that “dry” when used to describe alcohol is a foreign concept to the Japanese than the very fact @A passerby used Katakana to write it. @A passerby wrote, I suspect sarcastically, “as if the flavor description of “dry” doesn’t exist in the language.” To point out the obvious: you wrote it in Katakana: the very script reserved for words that don’t exist in the language.

As for the Kanji 辛口 that @A passerby asked me to translate, and that he has seen on Sake “countless times,” I translate that to “Spicy.” Note, not “Dry.” But Kanji in particular and Japanese in general can be tricky, and is by far the most difficult language I've studied. As this chat indicates, things are not so easy when working with Japanese.

There are numerous Japanese, as @A passerby noted, who have become familiar with the Western concept of “dry” alcohol. But in my opinion, the concept is not broad enough in Japan yet to expect every single Japanese person to understand it. Having wrote that, I’d expect a FA on an International flight to be one of those Japanese that understands some foreigners use the word “dry” to describe Sake (and other alcohol.) But she didn’t. Not the end of the world. As @A Passerby noted, the FA was not familiar enough with English to understand. Language barrier, it happens. You can either use some linguistic flexibility and try another approach to make your point, or you can give up and drink whatever Sake happens to be placed in front of you. Either is a great option.

@A passerby, I always appreciate the opportunity to challenge my own assumptions. Now that I think about it, I drink whatever Sake is put in front of me at whatever Izakaya I happen to be in. I don’t recall my counterparts and I ever discussing the concept of “dry” Sake, but I’ll bring the topic up the next time I’m out. When it comes to Sake, we almost always refer to which prefecture it originates from, as we think that's a better indicator of quality. Akita and Niigata have the best rice in Japan, hence I think they have the best Sake in Japan. And while I’m at it, my wife will call her brother later this afternoon…he’s lived in Japan for 59, 60 years (I can’t remember how old he is). He’s had more than his fair share of exposure to Sake (it’s just before 0900 on Sunday here in Japan, so we are letting him sleep in before calling after a late Saturday night he undoubtedly spent drinking Sake), and he’s had enough exposure to the West and speaks enough English to understand our concepts, so this will be an interesting topic about which to get his opinion. If more Japanese use "dry" with Sake than I expected, I’ll be happy to admit it.

@Lucky, sorry again. That post was a dick move on my part.

@Lucky-Can you include review on the aisle seats in your next reviews? Almost all travel blogs reviewing JL's Apex suites are talking about the window seats but I haven't found any reviews about the aisle seats yet. I'm not referring to just this review but in your other reviews on other airlines as well, please include reviews on the aisle seats or the types of seats different to yours. By review I mean detailed descriptions as you did with the window seats (placement of storage spaces, seats, controls etc with photos) and not just whether they are staggered or not.

No place to put your phone? What an outrage......................pathetic.

Does lax to kix in November 2019 use the same seats in biz class? How do I check? Thx

"On this flight the crew just seemed to lack that x-factor that makes flying a Japanese carrier so special. They were friendly and they were well intentioned, but they just weren’t as attentive or infectiously adorable as I often find on Japanese airlines. "

Lucky, i think you were a bit harsh about your flight's crew. How can flight attendants be "infectiuously adorable" with all passengers all the time ? They are not robots with artificial intelligence or supposed to behave like actors & actresses on stage.
So they were a bit slow clearing your tables but who is in a hurry on a 13hours'flight,come on.

Better late than never. Over the past 7 months or so I've asked numerous Japanese counterparts about using the term "dry" to describe sake. A few insist sake is never described as "dry," a few have disagreed and will describe sake as such. Interestingly, it doesn't seem to matter how well they speak English. A couple of the most fluent English speaking Japanese men I know insist "dry' is not used to describe sake. On the other hand, a couple of the least proficient English speakers I know think "dry" can be used to describe sake. As I wrote to A passerby above, I'm always happy to challenge my own assumptions. Take care.

Two things make this business class product a no-go for me (and this is the product that flies to my U.S. home, Boston), and I have flown it more than once.

1. The seats have very little storage. The window seats have less than the already meager storage in the aisle seats.

2. The difficulty of getting up when the tray table is open.

I think that the new (current) AA business class has a much better hard product, and while the food is usually inedible, I take my own.