In the past few years, pilots at most major US airlines have negotiated new contracts. In 2023, we saw American Airlines pilots ratify a new contract, worth nearly $10 billion over four years. As I’ve written about in the past, one interesting aspect of this contract is that pilots will under many circumstances get upgraded…
Continue reading: American’s Controversial Pilot Upgrade Policy: Why Pilots Clear Before Elites
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
It is not reasonable or unreasonable. It is just AA policy.
It is their airline. It is there rules. Accept them or leave.
You should also look at eg Singapore Airlines staff travel policy. Back office staff, or any other staff, travelling for work are booked in economy, and then upgraded to highest available class on day of departure. Meaning any oversell situation in Y will be cleared with staff ahead of any frequent flyer. Only to the extent that the over sell goes beyond staff will frequent flyers start getting upgrades.
I see nothing wrong with this or any airline that has this policy in place for its staff. It's a perk of the job.
Do not muzzle the ox that treads the wheat...
I think you mean to say "buy"
“If you want first class, but first class,”
Deadheading is company business travel and pilots argue that they should get it because they are on company business. They try to use the safety argument - that they need to be more rested - but that falls apart because they can't really argue that they are unsafe if they end up in coach which most certainly happens.
I believe UA has a similar policy as AA for pilots but other airlines do not have this policy regarding upgrades.
DL, for example, is very careful not to do anything for pilots that it is not willing to give to all employees - which would include flight attendants who also have to deadhead at times. It is simply unrealistic to believe that FAs will get as many upgrades as pilots could based on sheer numbers of employees in both work groups.
I am frequently number one on the upgrade list, and I know the number of the empty seat. Then a couple of hours ahead the seat is taken, and sometimes it is a pilot in that seat. So a bit frustrating, but I understand AA's new policy. But more and more, I question whether earning all those LPs is worth it. As Ben says, Plat Pro is the sweet spot.
American Exec Plat here. Ben, the upgrade story I’d like to hear about is what seems to be a change to AA’s Systemwide upgrade availability. For years in January there would be (at least some) inventory of systemwides made available for summer transoceanic travel. I used dozens of them over the years. But unless I’m dumb, which is possible, I can’t find a single seat for months on end available, even on the JFK-LHR route. This definitely feels like a move that would be a way bigger issue than pilots getting upgrades from PHL-CLT.
Can we get over the fact that free upgrades have and will become even more rarer. If being up front is so important to you (it is to me) then simply buy an upgrade. If you wait the cost is usually pretty decent. For the most part deadheading is between hubs so if you're flying DFW/MIA, DFW/ORD, DFW/LAX or other trunk routes and are in line for an upgrade you might not get it.
The issue is not "do pilots deserve first class upgrades?"
The issue is how does customer service deal with displaced customers. When someone pays for a first class seat to fly at a set time, they are expecting to fly at that time in that class of service, they don't want "compensation", the whole point of them buying the ticket was to fly in that class of service with that schedule.
Way too often you hear horror stories of people getting bumped for pilots and that is the core problem.
I think the best way for AA to “fix” is to improve operational reliability which will then decrease the number of pilots needing to deadhead and in turn open up seats for elite upgrades.
One piece I do want to mention that displaced premium customers will also be ahead of deadheading pilots on the upgrade list (and just about everyone else) when they paid for F/J seat (not via cash or mileage upgrade) but got stuck in Y due to flight cancellation/delay. However, it’s not automatic so make sure to advocate for yourself at check in or the gate to ensure the correct priority and do not settle for a “we will refund the difference” answer because we know the fare difference equation heavily favors the airline.
Just like people in many positions, it's easy to take the position that "because I'm in charge of something, I should get first bite at it and that's my entitlement". It's really a form of corruption by power if you think about it.
If ALPA and American were serious about pilots needing proper rest before flights, they should offer confirmed first class space to pilots commuting TO work. You are just as likely to be fatigued when on the clock as off the clock. If safety is the true reason, there should not be differentiation between commuting and deadheading.
Why do you only talk about AA, when DL and UA pilots have the exact same privileges for upgrading in their contract?
Why is this topic always approached from the perspective of AAL when UAL started this trend. Sure, UAL is mentioned in the post in A sentence, but i have never seen posts on any site putting the spotlight on UAL
I don't think Delta pilots have this policy? I'm sure they will in their next union contract but I don't believe they do at the moment.
why should the airline take away confirmed first class for passengers for a pilot that is actively choosing not to live in their home base and choosing to commute with that added fatigue you mention.
If anything, the more sensible "safety" fix there, if needed, would be to not allow commuting or to enforce a commute policy that arrives the day before a scheduled trip. But of course that's also nonsense.
correct. UAL pilots were in a better position to ask for it and AAL pilots copied.
The real question is what DL managed to do to take it off the table w/ its pilots union. DL pilots often complain of the worse deadhead policies they have compared to AA and UA.
if that argument is valid for pilots, then it has to be used for FAs. You can't argue that FAs are there solely for your safety and then say there is a 2nd tier of safety for FAs.
"DL, for example, is very careful not to do anything for pilots that it is not willing to give to all employees "
we'll see if this is true after the next negotiation. United was the first to get this upgrade policy and Delta pilots will certainly get it in the next. Delta pilots have plenty of perks that other Delta employee groups do not from 401k to many other things
My very uninformed take on this is that Pilots deadheading are much more likely to have been unprepared before rushing to fill in for a spot (e.g. a Pilot was supposed to have a week off so stayed up late before finding out they need to sub in for a timed out crew). In this case, fatigue is not really the Pilot's responsibility since the company is asking them to suddenly work overtime. Very different from regular commuting where the Pilot has advanced awareness and is responsible for their own fatigue.
At that point airlines might as well actively discourage commuting– either pilots live at their base or *they* incur the additional commuting costs associated with blocking off a first class seat.
that really isn't the question, Tim. The question is how quickly Delta agrees to it in Delta's next ALPA agreement. They are going to, there's no doubt.
It's just patterned bargaining. United pilots got this policy first (after the DL pilot deal), delta pilots will get it in their next contract
@Tim Dunn - I fully agree. This is where APFA dropped the ball in the last negotiations. Far more FAs commute than pilots, so they should have been demanding positive space first class commuting passes.
Don’t wait for first class upgrades … that was so 2016! Once the merger happened, executive platinum does not matter except for almost immediate customer service on the phone. Result: I have status with many airlines so my $$ are no longer exclusively AA. In comparing FC tickets online AA is typically the highest so I pick the best route and price without specific loyalty. The big miss for AA is that I no longer use they for transatlantic flights. Air France, Swiss, and freedom flights on Emirates, Ethiad, and Singapore. Certainly opened my eyes to so many magnificent airlines!
Delta doesn't have some things for its pilots that other legacy carrier pilots have and Delta does have some things - like massive profit sharing - that other pilots don't get.
Negotiation is all about moving things back and forth across the table.
DL might stand firm in its stance and there isn't much DALPA can do about it. DL is willing to give a whole lot of things that have far more value.
It is far from certain that "it is simply a matter of time"
Not knowing the system, one has to ask …. Is the Pilot’s air travel taxed or tax exempt?
there are standard rest rules which pilots have to meet; FAs don't have them to the same degree.
But if a pilot accepts a trip and verifies that they meet the requirements, they don't get to pull out a "but I'm not rested if I don't get the seat they want" on a deadhead card.
as to below, pilots are required to be rested for duty when they sign in for a flight whether they commute in by air, drive in, or are dropped off by a family member.
Until AA stops marketing upgrades as the primary benefit of elite status, anything they do to further reduce upgrade inventory is going to make their elite base mad. Selling upgrades is what’s killing inventory, not deadheading pilots. The pilots are just more visible.
US airlines are generally able to give domestic pass benefits tax free as long as it is standby which most airlines interpret as being within 30 minutes of departure - when most airlines cut off sales.
Deadheading or company business is never taxed to the employee.
Delta already gives pilots better deadhead provisions than flight attendants. Delta pilots are confirmed in D1 for transoceanic deadheads; FAs are not.
The only situation in which a paid (or upgraded in advance of checkin) passenger would be downgraded to accommodate a pilot deadheading would be on a flight that crosses an ocean or the equator. On those flights, deadheading pilots are confirmed in the premium cabin, and can't be required to travel in the main cabin.
Such deadheads, while not unheard of, are far less common than domestic deadheads.
The focus should be on paying passengers - the pilots won’t have a paycheck without a paying passenger. This gets to the heart of the many things wrong with AA. The lack of focus on the passenger and more on themselves is the heart of the issue. The pilots always act like they know how to run the airline better than the mgmt team. If they are so smart then they would say hey these seats should be for our best clients. However it’s clear neither mgmt or pilots are focused on passengers.
My guess would be that United gets less attention in this area because they're far more likely to actually just book pilots into First Class. Since American adds pilots to the upgrade list and clears them at the gate, it's much more noticeable to passengers on the upgrade list than when the F cabin on United just gets booked up. United pilot deadheads book directly into First Class if the cabin isn't sold out at the time the deadhead is booked.
Can we all agree that pilots unions actively harm American consumer welfare and we would be better off if we allowed foreign pilots to fly here? Why do pilots get their own labor market when their customers have to compete globally?
Ben Holz, then airlines should pay their crews not just a living wage but a thriving wage to be in those specific locations; the issue is that bases in NYC, ORD, LAX, SFO, etc. have an absurd cost of living, so, commuting from elsewhere ends up being what happens. These cities are working on building more affordable housing, but it takes time. Instead of recognizing this reality, I see lots of punching down on the folks at the bottom, unfortunately.
Tim is so quick to rely on profit-sharing as the cure-all for every issue… but, what happens when there’s an inevitable downturn? The line doesn’t always go up, friends, as much as we’ve pretended so for too long. Worker protections, especially during downturns, are of vital importance, lest we forget. Lots of union bashing here, which is so short-sighted, and telling as to whom is a mere industry shill or so deep in right-wing propaganda to forget reality.
Tim
The profit sharing formula isn't unique to Delta's pilots in the slightest. AA and, I believe, United Pilots have the same profit sharing formula as Delta pilots.
The shared profits off the same formula is different, but the same language in the contract is the same.
And there are plenty of reasons for Delta's profitability that don't need to be brought in here.
And it really is just a matter of time... Delta really isn't great at union negotiation and that can easily be seen in the way Delta pilots usually get things first before the rest of the industry, this one upgrade item excepted.
Lol forgot for a second this is the US we are talking about... Even so, I can get it for a junior FOs having seen that for the first 2-3 years (max) earnings are definitely on the lower end of the scale, but more senior FOs and captains should have no problem facing the living costs of living close to those hubs you mentioned.
Rich Karens will always say if want first class, buy first class. Unfortunately, us mere humans can only try to hope our loyalty is reciprocated through free upgrades.
A pilot walks into a bathroom and looks at himself in the mirror and thinks to himself ´This bathroom needs more mirrors’
UA pilots get first class seats when their deadhead bookings are created reducing available first class seats for revenue upgrades. At least AA pilots have to wait for their upgrade after check in. You're whining about the AA pilots policy even though it is actually more favorable to revenue passengers just because it's more visible. We don't see UA pilots getting upgraded just before boarding so no one is outrageous. what a joke.
Agreed!! LP, AAdvantage miles and the whole “loyalty” game isn’t worth it anymore
To elaborate even further, Employee personal standby travel, and I think spouse and dependent kids, is tax free. Other family members such as parents and buddy passes are subject to imputed income. This only applies to domestic travel. Other countries may have different rules and will charge the non-rev traveler accordingly. This is thru the same channels as revenue passengers. i.e. a delta employee will pay any foreign taxes to DL and then DL pays the given country.
Indeed. For a long time Delta’s pilots couldn’t ride in their own jumpseats when they were commuting or nonreving.
Deadheading is ON the clock, commuting is not.
As a LONG time commuter, I take responsibility for my rest so I go on the clock rested.
FC passengers do NOT get bumped for commuting pilots. Geez. Very rarely there are seats open in FC, after upgrades, paid for or awarded. Then and only then a pilot or any employee might have the chance to “jumpseat” or non-rev in a FC seat.
Then don’t be loyal? Buy whatever is cheapest and pay for a cheap promo upgrade now and again…
I'm in F/J because I paid for it. My first preference for unsold seats is to leave them empty. But, if you're going to move someone from Y up front, I'd much rather it be a pilot. Pilots don't take their shoes off, try to put their bag under their seat 1C when I'm in 2C, complain if I recline, play music/videos w/o headphones, etc. Of course, I don't know if the ones who have done those things on my flight are upgrades or purchased the sest.
But that’s optional and considered a benefit to be able to do that but nothing is stopping them from moving to their base. Everyone chooses how far the want to live from their job no matter the job or the industry.
Many commuting crew have a "crash pad" at base. Friends to stay with, a reasonable airport hotel or an apartment shared by many crew members which is just a place to sleep. So commuters are able to manage a rest before their trip sequence starts.
A completely different scenario than a dead-heading pilot which is more likely (domestically) to be a crew already on a sequence and getting re-assigned.
Ben,
You covered two scenarios of when you'll see a pilot in a cabin seat:
-- commuting
-- deadheading
I'd like to split the "commuting" into two:
-- using their "space available" pass benefits
-- buying a seat like the rest of us
Those who buy a seat are full fledged passengers. They earn LPs and many are Elites. As such, they're on the upgrade list just like you & I.
(For the record ... my time at pre-merger, I have no idea about today... AA employees could buy ID20 tickets. They were 20% off any fare, you did have to meet all rules/restrictions of the chosen fare).
My data points are really old, but when I was a Gate AAgent, a deadheading pilot was very rare. Commuters were very common at DFW. I only dealt with the "pass rider" ones. The paid ticket commuters usually were all set by the time they got to the gate so I can't really talk about their numbers.
1. An upgrade is not a god given right. You want to fly first, either but a first class ticket, or hope for the best. Unless you actually hold a first class ticket, you shouldn't be complaining if others got upgraded (be it airline employees or other passengers). If you think your chances are higher with a different airline - fly that other airline. That's a very long way of say "grow the heck up"
2. Question - I honestly do not know... Where do flight attendants fit into this? I don't see them upgraded very often but not sure why. DO they commute less, did their union fail to secure them the same benefit or do they travel in plain clothing, so that nobody knows they have been upgraded?
My thanks to you too Mitch.
Every day is a school day for me …. even while I’m on the graveyard shift …. 🙂
Trigger Warning: For those who are unfamiliar with humour and satire …. my “Graveyard shift” reference is rhetorical humour.
AA pilots are listed for first class
upgrades, if available, when traveling for the company. This travel would be deadhead travel (company needs pilots in point A and they are in point B) and travel for training.
Pilots commuting to base/work outside of company travel needs, do not get priority on the first class upgrades and will only get an upgrade if all other upgrades get their, basically bottom of the list.
So why do they get priority for company required travel?
1) Rest. A pilot usually is being flown to another base to then fly revenue flights that same day/night. Pilots are scheduled to work 14+ hours a day, and a few hours of extra legroom before taking the controls of 185 passengers to fly a red eye flight, it’s welcomed and good for safety.
2) Forces the company to schedule better. Stop pulling a pilot from base A to cover base B, pay a pilot premium in base b to cover the trip or staff appropriately.
Delta pilots get first on DH more than 4 hours. Now if a whole crew…pilots and flight attendants are on an under 4 hour flight it’s by seniority…myself with 30 years as a flight attendant gets the first class or comfort seat over the 28 year pilot. We have to watch closely as agents tend to get intimidated by pilots….not on my DH….especially when it’s a new hire thinking pilots go ahead of flight attendants. Also monitor this on flights that I work