Yesterday I wrote about a pretty costly mistake that happened while a heavy jet was taxiing. We now have video footage of the incident, and it gives us a clear sense of how this situation unfolded.
Continue reading: Ouch: American Boeing 787 Engine Ingests Cargo Container
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Most likely the aircraft will have the engine replaced and be back in service within a day or two. The damaged engine will most likely be out of action for weeks, and need extensive maintenance
Someone wasn't following ramp procedures and was too close to zones where they should not be with engines running.
on the topic of AA 787s, they need a new engine for this one...which raises the question of how their new 787 deliveries are coming.
United updated its investor guidance with its earnings report to show that they will only receive 3 787s this year - way down from what they expected to receive in 2024... note that the 787 is not being affected by the Boeing strike so these are 787 specific issues that continue to delay deliveries of that plane.
UA also disclosed that it expects its fleet to end up for 2024 just under 1000 which is not just a miss from its guidance when it placed its massive 787 and MAX orders and its net fleet increase for 2024 will be only 41 aircraft, net of 10 319/320 retirements earlier this year. They expect no other aircraft retirements in 2024 so UA's fleet age will increase.
Boeing's production problems are causing real problems for airlines that are missing all kinds of goals.
UA also said on its earnings call that its aggressive growth in the Pacific has come to an end, China continues to have weak traffic so they will probably not add anything else, and the S. Pacific is seeing weak fares.
AA supposedly needed its new 787s for its DFW to S. Pacific routes so not sure if they are getting those new 787s or will just have to block seats on existing 787s but AA, like UA, is hurting due to Boeing.
This incident doesn't help
The engine will be removed as an unexpected engine removal (UER). American has spares and have the ability to request a lease engine if applicable, so the aircraft will be back into service shortly.
The key for the engine shop turn around time will be whether or not the damage extends into the core of the engine (via a borescope inspection). If not, the focus will most likely be on the fan/booster, which should only be a slightly more extended shop visit.
WTF has AA's damaged engine got to do with UA's fleet deliveries, you absolute loon??
Context matters. American has commented on 787 delays which matter w aircraft damage. Sorry if it went over your head
American itself or GE has some spares but there is no assurance they are available. GE overhauls this engine
GE has a lease pool where spares can be requested IF AA does not have their own spares available. However as this isn't performance driven I'm sure AA won't be too fond of the cost.
Are you talking about the airline that is getting its non-Boeing wide bodies delivered on time?
On a recent Tell Me Why, within the AA Newsroom, Brian Znotins states the delivery delays for the 787 are accounted for in the summer schedule 2025.
@UncleRonnie, I'm not a big fan of Tim most of the time either, but I have zero issues with his statement. He is providing industry insight which was outlined in UAL 3Q24 earnings which probably applies to AA since both airlines have 787s on order. I will agree, their was too much info on UAL. The second paragraph was not needed for any context of the 787 or AAL.
@uncleronnie not only does this incident have nothing to do with UA, notice he also apparently had the time to complete the entire investigation and find the root cause beyond the shadow of a doubt. Impressive.
And according to certain group of people, this is yet another to avoid Boeing planes.
"iF It'S bOeIng, i AIn'T GOiNg!"
Snowflakes.
Are they? Is that why Delta needed to buy unwanted Airbus aircraft from LATAM and also is flying around substantially less efficient A330Ns than American or United's 787s? Or why United is operationally more profitable than Delta now, and doesn't regularly melt down?
The engine supply chain is separate from the airframe supply chain
AA does their own engine work on 787 engines in Tulsa, and is reopening the 787 heavy check line there, so they certainly have spares on hand. The airplane will also need to be inspected for any further damage, but I'm sure they can get it replaced relatively quickly.
holy thread drift.
for people that say they want to read less from me and about DL, many of you do a remarkable job of discussing just the opposite.
1. there is no assurance the damage to the AA aircraft is just to the engine. It is those that are pre-judging the damage who think the fuselage has not also been damaged.
2. Engines are not designed to ingest metal. Multiple people have said that the engine will be overhauled and they are right.
3. roberto is correct that the narrowbody information might have been excessive but AA also is dealing w/ Boeing delivery delays for the MAX. Delivery delays of 787s is affecting airlines including both AA and UA.
4. The A330NEO is just as efficient on certain stage lengths - but most importantly, Airbus is delivering them on-time to at least some customers in stark contrast to 787s and MAXs. DL, since they were mentioned, will receive 7 339NEOs this year - in addition to 7 359s. The total number of 339s or 359s being delivered will probably be more than all of the Boeing widebodies being delivered to all US airlines this year.
5. The first ex-Latam aircraft has entered mods to convert it to DL standard, 3 years after it entered service. As much as some people want to argue otherwise, that is about how long it takes to do major cabin refurbishments. Given that the 35Ls are not in the schedule by the end of next summer, Airbus is apparently planning to finish the conversion for DL of all 9 in the next 9 months or so - a pretty reasonable goal.
6. UA reported OPERATING profit margins higher than DL but that metric excludes relatively minor (sarcasm) stuff like paying interest and accounting for investments. DL had a higher net income margin including because it made money on its airline equity investments which UA lost money on whatever it invests in. Try paying for your food expenses but not paying your mortgage or car payment and associated interest and let us know how that works out
7. DL and UA's revenue metrics are fairly similar. YTD UA has cancelled more flights than DL with DL still with the least number of cancellations of the big 3. WN is leading the big 4 in that metric. DL still has the best on-time of the big 4 YTD. If AA and UA aren't having meltdowns, apparently they run much worse operations than DL on a day in and day out basis.
8. UA has yet to settle with its FAs - which will cost it hundreds of millions of dollars in extra labor costs - which were already higher than DL for the quarter - and take about $500 million or more out of its bank account - which means either that UA has enough cash to afford its $1.5 billion stock buyback plus retro or it doesn't plan to get its FAs up to industry standard pay despite telling employees they would wait til the end of the big 4 pay increases to lift UA employee salaries. AA, DL and WN have all lifted FA pay in some cases multiple times but UA is nowhere near ready to fork over money to FAs.
9. UA's annual income - operating or net - is still expected to trail DL's for 2025 as it has for years. UA has a much more seasonal earnings swing due to UA's weak position in Florida.
anything else you want to discuss or myths that we should debunk or shall we return to AA and their damaged 787?
correction
UA's annual income - operating or net - is still expected to trail DL's for 2024 as it has for years.
Neither DL or UA have given profit-specific guidance for 2025 yet
Question to any commercial pilots that might be here; I’ve recently been watching apron and gate movements and noticed more often than not that the walk around that used to be done of engines, tyres etc by the pilot and first officer prior to push back is not always carried out, is this normal or do individual airlines have varying policies ?
thanks for your commentary. I inadvertently referenced your comments to someone else below
Tim is absolutely right, Context matters. Except his posts are all out of context.
AA accident = 787 engine = 787 deliveries = UA deliveries = UA earnings call = MAX delays = Boeing delays = China traffic = S.Pacific fares.
WTF!!!!
It's like asking Tim Dunn what is 2+2 and he answers Donald Trump. Because 2+2 is a number which is often thrown out on earnings call that talk about some fluff but the context is also about the "+" between the numbers which the plus sign is just like Elite Plus which is part of SkyTeam and therefore is about Delta which happens to have a 757 coincidentally another person who has a 757 is Donald Trump.
So Tim's cookie dough fluff answer is 2+2 = Donald Trump.
Do you have any other hobbies ? I wouldn’t have the time to write multiple paragraphs.
You need to be brief as people get bored after a few lines.
Better still, why not start your own website and blog?
“ AA accident = 787 engine = 787 deliveries = UA deliveries = UA earnings call = MAX delays = Boeing delays = China traffic = S.Pacific fares.”
HAHAHAHA, that’s funny. Love how he never mentions Airbus delivery delays or A220 P&W engine problems.
Except that you clearly did read and that is obvious from your response. Voice dictation is a wonderful thing.
I spent far less on aviation websites than you think I do
“Then again, at least this is happening going into the winter season, rather than going into the peak summer season, where American desperately needs every one of its long haul aircraft.“
Ben I’m sure it’s a major disruption as we are not at off peak season yet. Wonder how many passengers were rerouted or had their travel disrupted ? Glad I’m flying out of JFK to FCO and not ORD.
Next , Air France owes American a new plane or that a350 should be seized by the FAA.
Air disasters are much less common occurrence in the 21st century. But many crashes have been linked to a damaged part replaced several years before.
American should write it off and prosecute Air France .
I don’t know about now as I’m no longer in the industry, but back when Virgin America (RIP) was a thing, they had maintenance “pre-inspecting” the planes for the pilots at certain stations, especially on RON aircraft. The pilots were none too happy about it at the time and seemed to think it was going to become more common.
That said, I have seen my flight crew walking the apron on recent flights on AA and NK, so not sure if that kind of thing is unique to certain airlines or if it’s more widespread.
Good question either way.
You’re such a bore. Even with voice dictation it’s the same as when I alluded to writing. Read the room
while the engine is clearly going to have to be overhauled, is there confirmation there was no damage to the fuselage....
SO...... when is AA going to get its next 787s and will they proportionately be as bad off as UA's 787 deliveries relative to orders?
Supposedly the 777W conversions are also starting later than planned so maybe AA will have plenty of aircraft since they cancelled so many routes in order to free up capacity for those conversions...
"the room" doesn't like to talk about real issues such as how massively Boeing's delivery delays are impacting airlines... whether that is the case or not for American, we will see.
Incidents like this raise that question just as it did when DL's A350 sliced off the top of the CRJ - and that A350 still has not flown since.
nowhere is Delta mentioned in the post above nor did I bring it into the post below until someone else did.
"around substantially less efficient A330Ns"
You seem to repeat that a lot, but there's not much evidence to substantiate it. A330N is not as capable as 787, but it's in no way "substantially less efficient."
I think it obvious that D3 was joking.
But, wasn't it the French that tried CO for the piece of metal that fell off their DC10 that caused that Concorde to crash? I'm not making fun, just the irony...
Would it not be effective to have strong tie-down straps so the worst thing would be a trailer(s) blowing over and dragged along out of the way?
I see everyone writing things like AA doesn’t have enough aircraft and they need all the long haul aircraft they can get. There is a used market out there. If they are so desperate as many posters say then they can buy a few 767’s or 777’s and run them until they get their new planes. I don’t feel sorry for any airline that ditched their widebodys in fear of Covid—stupid stupid stupid I wish they woulda ditched the 737 instead