American Airlines will be making a major change to its Doha service as of later this year. This adjustment seems logical enough, though I remain skeptical of the long term viability of this route. I first wrote about this a couple of days ago, but wanted to provide an update, as the schedule for the…
Continue reading: American Airlines Adds Philadelphia To Doha Flight, Axes New York Service
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When will AA announce that they plan on cleaning the interiors of their planes?
"Continuous evaluation" = lack of a clear strategy (IMO).
Anyway, this is surprising. I thought AA was gonna cut service to DOH altogether (which I thought they'd do as soon as the World Cup ended btw), not shift the flight to PHL. Interesting!
Might it be a matter of right sizing for AA's network too?
DOH is attractive for AA, between the incentives (aka subsidiaries) and good will for a "close" partner QR. Note the recent addition of JL/IB metal to DOH. DOH also serves a convenient connecting point onto SE Asia and India, esp. with Russian airspace closure.
77W might be too big for AA and NYC. 789 out of PHL might help optimise the investment/ROI.
Ben, this very nitpicky, but, the first picture in the article shows American's 77W Business Class product. Wouldn't it make more sense to show a pic of the 787-9 J seats given that that's the plane they'll be flying to DOH?
Thanks in advance, and sorry for being extremely petty 😉
I would rather fly Qatar in economy than AA in business with a PHL based crew.
Thank goodness AA codeshares won't pop up on my JFK-DOH-wherever Kayak results anymore
My guess is QR is gonna cut their DOH-PHL route and perhaps add a 3rd JFK-DOH route to replace the AA one
Sorry, gotta have cockroaches on the widebody before cleaning is initiated off-cycle. (j/k)
Maybe this is a way to read the tea leaves own what will happen in NYC for AA post NEA?
QR better not cut their PHL-DOH route in response! Being PHL based that would be awful.
This totally makes sense. The QA flight out of PHL is almost always full and connects to the US much better then JFK does. I think AA should consider this strategy:
PHL - Atlantic Hub
MIA - Caribbean/Central/South American Hub
DFW - Global / Pacific Hub
ORD / CLT / PHX - Regional US Hubs with some key international / oneworld flights
JFK - LAX and add in BOS Destination Hubs - Key US and international service / oneworld partners connections and originating traffic.
LGA - DCA - Regional Hubs only, no international (useless you can get XLR to LHR in the future)
SEA/SFO/AUS - Focus cities with one world partner Alaska
This is a model for success and $$ IMO
I wonder if another factor in AA flying a Doha route is related to a labor contract clause. I know the union contracts contain some scope clauses. If that is true, it makes for AA to fly the DOH-PHL route. At least AA has connectivity in PHl.
How? The Philadelphia area has a huge population of people from the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia. That’s who’s on these flights.
Your probably right. QR operated a third daily JFK flight (which arrived around 9-10pm and took off at 1am from JFK), but they got rid of that when AA inaugurated their flight.
I would like that QR flight to return, as it is great for connections at DOH (and allows you to land in the Indian Subcontinent in the morning while not having too long of a layover at DOH, rather than arriving at 1-3am).
Yeah currently Boston is a weird one right? It is like a 'sort of focus city' lol
It’s my understanding that Qatar Airways is significantly subsidizing other oneworld airlines flying to Doha
Wouldn't it be Abu Dhabi is subsidizing, not QR (ignoring the ownership interconnectivity).... because if it was the actual QR entity doing that, with operators with whom it doesn't share anti-trust immunity, then that can be a real legal issue just waiting to happen.
PHX? The place that can barely support 2 LHR flights on immunized J/V airlines; on a route that would overfly 2/3rds of the country?
Where'd ya dig THAT up? lol
JonNYC deserves to be put in his place every now and then. Ego is already way too big
The 77W out of NYC is too large. AA doesn’t fly 787’s out of JFK. If it wants to fly a 787 it is from PHL. Where do you suggest? MIA? CLT?
Exactly, Jason. The biggest Hindu temple outside of India is in Central New Jersey, less than an hour from PHL. People are moving to the area in droves and it even gets some tourism traffic.
I suggest Qatar drop AA completely. EWR to Doha on United would work much better
Ummm. Have you ever poked your head into
The economy class cabin of a QR flight going from
The us to Doha? I have. This past spring flying iAd-doh. Misery. It’s not pretty. AA service might be inconsistent but a business class seat in a 1-2-1 configuration beats 10 across on a 777 any day, regardless
@Jason - but then they wouldn’t be able to bash AA and PHL. I guarantee any one of them would take AA J over QR Y.
We are booked on this flight in business next April. We used miles and got a fantastic deal. Any idea if AA would.be willing/able to put is on a Qatar flight even though it's not showing any business award availability?
I like this. I’m based in Philly and fly to Doha often. The flight to Qatar is always full these days - now with 2 options, hopefully I can again finally start finding award availability on Qatar with my AA miles
That’s just foolish. So QR should drop AA as a partner because you would rather fly UA from EWR? You may not like it, but alliances do matter. And as Ben points out, AA is probably getting incentives from Qatar.
My guess is that if you're starting from another city other than JFK, you will be re-routed through PHL.
I'm in a similar situation. I booked the AA flight for 70K in business for next summer on the way to DXB in hopes that this route might be dropped.
I'm unsure if they will reaccomdate me on QR. I'm not going to call and see what the system automatically does in terms of rebooking. Since I have another flight on QR from DOH-DXB, I'm hopeful the system will rebook me on the QR JFK-DOH flight.
Do you mean Emir of Qatar instead of Qatar instead of UAE instead of Abu Dhabi?
From what I’ve seen, the fares on QR are a good bit higher out of PHL than JFK. I’m Phl based and wanted to fly to Doha- Phl was 50% more expensive for a majority of the schedule. I think the QR flight from PHL is likely safe
Wow! I’m having a field day with the posts coming out today.
At first my instinct was to bash AA for abandoning JFK on yet another route but it does make sense for them to diversify their portfolio and leave JFK-DOH to their partner Qatar.
Now I wonder when PHL is going to get a nonstop route to East Asia, whether on AA or another airline. There’s a large East Asian population within a 1-2 hour drive of PHL, especially in New Jersey, so there’s probably plenty of demand that would bleed over from the EWR catchment area. It’s a shame that AA and US merged before US could launch their planned route to NRT or PEK from PHL. If US survived there would probably still be nonstop flights from PHL to East Asia today.
We are starting in JFK. We only live 3 hours from JFK so we are driving there and flying from JFK. We have additional flights on QR for this trip as well but we booked each segment separately as we are doing a stopover in Doha and our ultimate destination is Phuket, and AA won't ticket all the way through to Thailand on a single ticket.
I am flying QSuite Washington Dulles to Doha next week, redeeming 75,000 miles. The flight never appeared on the website. However, after calling every fee weeks over the past seven months I was able to score the redemption. Originally, I was forced onto the AA JFK flight. Point being, don't count on the website - call.
2 options? But surey Qatar will axe their flight when AA starts. And QR will bring back whatever flight they axed when AA started the JFK-DOH operation.
These AA, AY, IB, JL whatever flights to DOH are QR wetleases for all practical purposes. Nothing more, nothing less.
If AA is just throwing darts and taking the subsidies why not give Charlotte a try. Lots of domestic connectivity and essentially no competition for one stop travel to almost the rest of the world (outside of Europe)
I'm hopeful this will be an easy switch over to QR but nothing with AA is easy.
I got caught on the other side of things last year; had a confirmed QR flight with QSuites from DOH-JFK and when AA started their flight, was switched over to that. I worked with corporate as well and they wouldn't switch me back to a QR operated flight. They basically said since there isn't availability on QR, keep checking.
I know they used to have some sort of leiason who worked with QR but I was stuck on AA metal.
USAirways did survive. It just took the AA name. USAirways management took over AA and axed that route in favor of flights out of DFW, LAX, and ORD (most of which are gone now).
Did you mean Al Thani royal family instead of Emir of Qatar instead of Qatar instead of Doha instead of UAE instead of Abu Dhabi?
@Daniel - if this flight (AA’s) is for all intents and purposes just a wet lease, then why move if from JFK to PHL? That makes no sense. AA is hoping to reduce capacity and hopefully fill more seats with connecting traffic. PHL may not be great (heck, I prefer flying out of JFK when it makes sense for me) but if has more connecting traffic than JFK.
PHL’s TATL gates are underutilized right now, whereas CLT does not have much room for int’l growth.
Ben and the crowd like to jump down AA's throat....yet are still the world's largest airline. They simply coordinate well with the oneworld alliance and manage their international network accordingly. Not that they can't make improvements, but I don't see all of the negativity justified.
As for DOH, without the NEA feed anymore it just makes sense to change the departure to PHL with its much better connectivity. I do agree it's a big question whether QR maintains their service on the route.
Qatar flt from IAD to Doha is long haul and in economy , the service is good. Compared to many other airlines , the Qatar staff help in the transit to Asian cities esp those in wheelchairs. The food served in Qatar is good , the people serving food are pleasant and always smiling. I have flown many times . I find it very comfortable. The customer service is excellent. I wish Qatar airways had their own people to take the wheelchair passengers to the aircraft as they do in Doha.
I love to fly Qatar.
When using an AAdvantage award earlier this year from Orlando to Doha, I used that JFK-DOH flight but to get to JFK I had to connect in CLT. Extremely inconvenient so it makes much more sense to operate the flight from a hub.
American would have to be significantly cheaper for any rational person to choose this over a Middle East carrier
Yes Your right, QR is a great airline. Just want to correct/ point out several things to You. Doha is their only HUB, so there would obviously be more staff and services their versus anywhere else in the world. Next, QR is fairly unique in that they not only own the airline, they own the airport, AND have the management contract to run said airport. I highly, HIGHLY doubt that QR actually has "there own wheelchair staff" as it's most likely a group of airport workers wearing a branded badge/vest. Next, even if You would be willing to pay for this extra "service" to push You around, most passengers wouldn't. Lastly, what could help getting better service around the world for disabled passengers would be strict guidelines being in place and in force to stop malingerers from taking up space and time of the rest of the workers at the other cities airports. One of my biggest travel pet peeves is when there are more wheelchairs at landing than takeoff (ESPECIALLY when we are about to go through customs, imagine that...). Ridiculous that they can cut the cue, load and bosrd themselves, walk around the entire flight asking for extra food, then as soon as it comes time to wait through TSA/Immigration,: I need 15 wheelchairs to be waddled though the hoards of passengers trying to get home, while they are acting more important than every other human there. Cutting in Line.
Do you think this will happen automatically.to same class of service? As of now my AA business class flight is still showing up.in my reservation. I'd LOVE if they switch me to Qatar business, but don't want to get my hopes up... Would you recommend calling or just seeing how.it plays out..
I’m sure this is what they will revert to. I asked the same thing about XLR international out of DCA and LGA but would need approval. Both have perimeter limits but I think LGA doesn’t have any on Saturday. Would be neat to see LGA-LHR on a Saturday at least. Not the best use of an LHR slot but who knows. Thought it would be cool to do “Capitol to Capitol” flights out of DCA to GVA, BRU, LHR, CDG, MEX, etc. Also not sure about runway length for fully loaded XLR
More than likely more going on than what it appears. Bet AA would prefer to operate the flight on the 787-9 as opposed to the Premium 777-300 that is not even based in PHL. PHL provides the connectability of their Network as opposed to NYC/JFK more reliant on Origin/Destination traffic. The partnership with JetBlue more than likely had little factor in this decision making since JB was never destined for ONEWORLD Membership and they will have their own headswinds to deal with should the merger with SPIRIT take place. I look for AA to operate PHL-DOH but see Qatar opening CLT-DOH to take advantage of the massive CLT Hub and providing a more comprehensive network from more ONEWORLD Hubs. US to SE Asia/Middle East traffic is growing very rapidly and Qatar sees potential in capturing that traffic and has deep pockets to meet the challenge.
My two flights booked on AA's DOH service were cancelled in the midst of 2 trips. This resulted in an overnight in Long Island for the 1st. And a mad scramble in DOH (with NO competent support there from AA or QR) to get placed on the QR flight.
As readers of blogs like this, we air travel enthusiasts tend to forget how most travelers are not nearly as knowledgeable or intentional about their flight choices as we are. There may be enough people to make this flight work as long as they care primarily about price, or timing, or the first choice that comes up on their search, or thinking that an American carrier must obviously be better than an airline from one of “those” countries. I have a couple of colleagues at work (otherwise highly educated people) who still only book flights with Boeing planes because they don’t trust “those European” Airbus planes.
Need Advice for 20th Anniversary:
Award booking in AA First Class in November. MCI-LGA, JFK-DOH (AA), DOH-MLE (qatar).
What do you think AA will do for rebooking?
Is it better to be proactive and reach out?
Will they protect "class of service (first") in a situation like this? i.e. Could I suggest to them to rebook me from DFW on British First to LHR and then either British/Qatar First from LHR to DOH? Obviously no award seats available.
Thanks!
Most people on these flights are just going to India or Pakistan - families of 4 or 5- looking for the cheapest fare. They don’t care.
And.... Cue the disappearance of every single QR J NYC-DOH award as pax are rebooked on QR instead of AA. Three days ago, approx 30% of dates in April, May, and June 2024 had QR J award availability of 1-2 seats to DOH. Now? ZERO through the end of the schedule.
Everyone has to ask themselves this first: fly AA to the ME or Qatar? I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Will the PHL flagship be done in time for this or will busines class long haul passengers be sent to the admirals club for baby carrots and sugar cookies?
Not sure where you were seeing this. I've been looking daily for over 2 weeks for a JFK-DOH award on QR for June 2024. Couldn't find a single award seat, so I booked JFK-DOH on AA in hopes the route might get cancelled.
AA has not rebooked me on QR as of yet.
American Airlines has a service to Doha because it is required that both metal in an international Joint Venture and/or Strategic Partnership serve the two countries involved so that the authorities can grant anti-trust immunity. What is NOT required is that both carriers have the same level of coverage on their own metal. For example: AA/QF = token AA presence LAX/SYD + seasonal DFW/AKL and soon LAX/AKL (QF operates all others.
It's especially awkward for them in JFK. They've had their own JFK terminal since I remember. That said, it seems the Northeast is now mimicking the old USAir route network in many respects (hub in PHL, healthy LGA focus-city operation, nothing at JFK). Can they make it work? I don't know, but I don't think so. Nobody in their right mind would fly AA over QR long haul. QR flies to PHL, so AA would be better served just maintaining connectivity from the hub for this one.
In PHL? The hellhole of the USAir system? Do you really have to ask this question?
They have to be very careful with the stewards too knowing the rules in Qatar where it is still illegal. But who in their right mind would endure AA on a flight this long when you can have QR. Get a grip AA. I think we'll rename you Dreamland Airlines, perhaps Fairytail Airlines ).
Inapplicable here, as neither carrier has filed for anti-trust immunity. Their relationship is little more than a simple codeshare, they remain competitors otherwise.
What coverage is serving Charlotte, which has nil demand to the Middle East and surrounding regions, going to bring to Qatar that it doesn't already have?
PHL may have a "large East Asian population" (what significant city doesn't?) but it has almost negligible demand to anywhere actually in east Asia.
I only have 2019 numbers, but there's several unserved medium metros (with non-hub) airports that have significantly more traffic to, for example, Japan than PHL does. Las Vegas, Austin, and even Nashville are among them. In fact, PHL's PDEW to Tokyo (both airports) is on the same level as Indianapolis's.
Virtually guaranteed that putting a widebody on the umpteenth daily JFK/LAX to LHR flight, or even to Hawaii, would be more lucrative than trying to make Philadelphia-east Asia "a thing."
Probably because QR wants it that way. JFK is more importat for them than PHL, so they probably prefer their own metal to JFK.
Point is, these flights are for all intents and purposes (except inflight service!) QR flights and QR pays these airlines for operating them.
Unlike PHL the new service to MAD by IB completely complementary in terms of schedule. And the schedules of AY to CPH and ARN, as well as JL to TYO are at least complementary at least in one direction. Flying the same route with almost the same schedule makes no sense …
I am a CK and I absolutely despise AA. The only reason I fly them is because I am a hub captive.
Last week my family and I did a South Africa vacation. I actually paid J for QR over buying award tickets on AA. Even with Qatar's shitty service (on both legs service was horrible), it is a no brainer for me to bypass AA. Worst airline EVER.
It's journey control or married segments tripping you up. JFK-DOH was available about 30% of days if connecting in DOH to another destination in ME or Asia. Nonstop by itself was rarely available. Doesn't matter now though, as they're all gone. Checked via QR Avios, as well, just for good measure. Not a single 70k seat for the entire schedule... just the 140k flexi available almost daily.
I am more interested in AA’s longer term strategy at JFK Airport. Are CLT, DFW, MIA, and PHL going to be where AA’s future international growth lies…at the expense of JFK and LAX?
Not true. Allegiant doesn’t fly to Mexico, yet they are starting a joint venture with Viva Aerobus.
why not give Charlotte a try
Reverse the question: why WOULD they give it a try?
Has CLT ever shown the ability to sustain more than 3 simultaneous year-round longhauls within the AA system? Pretty certain the answer is "no," and that's with 40million+ passenger feed, on routes with high US demand.
Not sure there's an easier way to burn money, than placing a 13hr+ operation at that sort of hub.
The timing of AA's flights are strange as they almost mirror QR's flights. Wouldn't it at least make sense to depart PHL in the late morning and DOH in the early morning?
For those you that are speculating and hoping that AA will rebook on a QR flight out of JFK I am sorry to break it to you, they won't. I have spent almost 2 weeks since they announced the discontinuation of the flight trying to get them to put on other PHI to DOH flight. First time I was on the phone with them for 3 hours and they said QR denied the request (JFK-DOH). I finally got a supervisor to approve and put one the PHI to DOH flight (I am flying in June 2024) The status just kept on showing "request" every time I called I was told to wait 24, 48 and 72 hours. Finally today another rep told that the reason why it hadn't been ticketed was because they were waiting for QR to confirm my DOH TO MLE leg. I said that was not changed and on QR website it shows as confirmed so what you are telling me doesn't make sense, A supervisor finally noticed that I was right and sent the reservation to ticketing and within 5 mins I got a email that the ticket was issued. now on the website the status shows as ticketed. If my experience is of an example, my advice for you is to call AA immediately and request a supervisor and don't waste your time with a REP. also it has to be someone from Advantage not the regular reservations supervisor. Good luck and you get your flights booked. Don't expect AA to call you or change it automatically for you let alone put on a Qatar flight.
Call them, they are not going to change it and they won't put you on a QR flight. Read my post about this.
I'm glad AA kept the service to Doha & shifted it to Philadelphia. I believe with as popular as Doha and Dubai are, American Airlines should consider adding Doha to its route map with an additional flight out of Charlotte. It would add a route not currently served by either AA or its QR airline partner.