Feuding Alaska Airlines Pilots Cause Flight Delay

Yikes! That’s a flight I sometimes take!

Hope they find compatible pilots in the future!

One is a republican and the other is a democrat.

Bullying is a serious problem.
Too bad as an adult you can't use playground rules and punch that bully anymore.

Terminate his contract.

IMHO, it's likely that the root of their disagreement involved something to do with the ongoing contract dispute between the pilots and management or union activity. Somebody called someone a scab or treated him like one. But we will never know.

Obviously a rare event, but I have a feeling this happens more often than gets reported. But one of the pilots has a good sense of coming up with a good excuse like calling out sick.

They are lucky that both flights are operated by A320s, which is rare these days on these long haul routes.

I agree with you that both pilots are not stupid and there will be investigations done by the company. I imagine that there is a backstory to it.

Interesting, this exact flight was parked next to my Austrian Airlines flight departing Monday night. I only noticed it as they were using the Alaska Pride aircraft with the unique Pride color scheme. I thought it fun that they use it for SFO flights. We left at 5:35PM on time and I think JUST made it out before the storm settled in over Dulles. The Austrian pilots were taking some pretty large deviations around the buildups so I can see any planes departing after being delayed.

Never mind, jet lag, I left Sunday night, lol.

Totally agree about the passenger tweets: what a bunch of freakin' drama queens. "Oh I only got $175!" Really? That's $175 more than you're entitled to, sweetie. As for the others, my God none of them seem to have ever faced actual adversity in their lives. They'd better not leave the DC or Bay Area 'burbs, lest they be confronted with the real world.

No. They're going to put the very same pilots on this flight the next time you're on it.

I’m unclear on the point you’re attempting to make.

Is it “You should take the 2.5 hour inconvenience due to a spat between pilots and enjoy it!”?

Can’t wait to read what Kelsey or Mentour pilot might say about this situation!!

He doesn't have a contract. That's not how it works.

Husband and wife perhaps?

The biggest drama queens were the two pilots who couldn’t set aside their issues and do their jobs.

This is exactly what the pilot is supposed to do when there is a breakdown of CRM in the cockpit before a flight. Passengers may not like it but it would have been irresponsible and actually a violation of FARs if after a fight the pilot didn't refuse to fly. There is probably more to the story and Alaska if they haven't already WILL block each of them from the others line going forward.

Feel bad for the passengers. But if things were really that bad in the cockpit, both pilots upset and not able to concentrate of safe flight, then I think the pilot did the right thing by not flying. If things were that bad, who knows what could have happened? Fist fight in flight? Would be great to read the incident reports that the pilots will fill out.

God, if that's the most traumatizing thing to happen to you, you've lived a very good life...

I think @stogieguy7 was completely lucid in the point he was making. Several pax tweets e.g. “Very scary that your pilots could be this careless and flippant”, “I have never been more traumatized by a flight experience” & "They only offered me $175 for this travesty" were examples of them being complete drama queens and/or wanting compensation over and above what they were entitled to. He never said or implied they should, "enjoy it", rather that they should get a little perspective.

There should be mandatory psychiatric evaluation, emergency psychiatric hold, and probable counseling.

Basically, these people act as if this was the worst thing that ever happened to anyone. Yeah, it was inconvenient. But, I've had an AA crew not show up for a 5:00 am PBI departure because they partied too hard in Miami the night before (seriously). Did I get $175? Hell no, we just had to take our 2 1/2 hour delay as if it's part of the AA experience. And even this little story is nothing compared with what happens when there's a weather issue and you're on your own in Atlanta or Charlotte or Chicago or Denver or Dallas or Detroit. For the night.

In other words, these people are entitled millennial cry babies who are exaggerating the stupidity that went down. That's my point.

This is exactly why only one pilot is needed . Would you want to fly with pilots that were arguing ? Me neither.

@derek

Same should be done for passengers. License to fly.

SOunds likeone of the Prima Donnas needs to be fired??? Did the younger Bald pilot walk off first???? If so he should go

While this is what is supposed to happen, there was no need for what sounds like a very flippant announcement...

Passengers were a bit dramatic. It was only a 2 hour delay for a cross country flight. Big deal. Getting $175 even if the ticket was business is not bad for 2hr delay. And I'm pretty sure if the plane was going down the 2 pilots wouldn't just go I hate you so much I'll just let the plane plunge into that corn field.

> But, I've had an AA crew not show up for a 5:00 am PBI departure because they partied too hard in Miami the night before (seriously). Did I get $175? Hell no, we just had to take our 2 1/2 hour delay as if it's part of the AA experience

Yeah … you should’ve gotten the $175 just like these guys did.

Delays for weather are one thing, delays because your pilots are unprofessional are very different. There absolutely should be a penalty to the airline for providing grossly unprofessional service. Many people actually rely on their scheduled flight times when making plans, and delays can be extremely costly. If those delays are purely the result of unprofessional service, then they should pay up.

You complain about these people being entitled (and yes, the people “traumatized” are beyond ridiculous) but frankly it is far worse for a business to think it should be able to provide sub-par services to customers without paying a penalty for it.

What are the consequences for the pilot that walked off?
Both pilots should receive consequences.
AND no compensation to the passengers?

Agree with your analysis. The pilot's actions were anything but "unprofessional" and he acted with transparency by sharing the reasons with the passengers instead of using an excuse like one of them was ill, which anyone would accept. The passengers complaining about being late should be ashamed of themselves. Would they rather be dead? Anyone who watches NG's Mayday knows that poor cockpit relations and communications can be deadly. Almost all air traffic accidents are a result of human error, often trivial.

Unfortunately, this is a typically American response of whining entitled consumerism. They demand seamless service at the cheapest price, but if the slightest thing is not to their satisfaction they bitch about it and look to blame someone. The airline and its staff did their jobs. Passengers should be grateful they took their responsibilities seriously and put their safety first.

Btw: Is this an argument to have an extra pilot in the cockpit for safety and as a reserve, in case someone gets ill during flight, not to mention avoiding potential suicide attempts by rogue pilots that happened on MH317 and Germanwings. Of course, airlines will push back to save costs of carrying an extra pilot on every flight.

Alaska is the last airline where I'd expect this given how well their crews get along. As an example, in June I was waiting at DCA for a flight to PDX, the crew arriving from PDX (FAs and pilots) hugged ever member of the ground crew and every member of the crew operating DCA to PDX. I have to wonder if the dispute between the pilots has to do with the contract negotiations that are getting pretty heated.

I wonder if the disagreement was in regards to some safety question. Did the captain, for example, want to proceed with the departure after an extended ground hold that put them under dispatch fuel load?
Just a hypothetical, and it would only matter if there was WX and a diversion at the end of the flight (ie they'd risk a fuel emergency too soon in a standard wx hold) . If they left the gate with correct fuel, it might even be totally legal to depart, but the F.O. says " we should go back and fuel up" and at that point it's clear they don't have agreement on trusting the command?
I'm just trying to think of a non-personality level 'fight' that breaks crew compatibility.

I wonder how many times a flight is delayed due to this type of situation but no one is ever told. I cannot stand not knowing why my flight is delayed and, of course, the attendants have no idea either. I think it was good that the pilots were transparent. My only scare in the end would have been if the remaining pilot was a douche and had some mental health problems. I think both pilots should have been replaced.

In general, airline pilots are supposed to compartmentalize and get on with the job. On the other hand, there may be some provocations that could be classified as "existential" and reasonably lead to a cockpit abort: if a pilot wants to break a sacrosanct safety rule or so egregiously insults a pilot on their race or ethnicity, something central to your being, so that crew coordination is engangered, then I can see how the crewmember may call an audible. Anything less would not qualify.

Always a comment that should garner “Ignorant Comment Award”

I'm so glad Ben came down on the side of good CRM processes. The pilot who walked off might have saved lives and probably (!) should be commended rather than disciplined.

(We obviously don't know what led up to the disagreement, but just with equipment issues, if in doubt, it's better not to fly with a potential problem unaddressed.)

Oh puhleez - 2 1/2 hrs late? I just spent the night wandering around JFK when two LAX- bound JetBlue flights were cancelled, the final one at midnight. Found my own standby the next morning and charged $75 for the privilege. I’d gladly take a 2.5 hr delay. I was in the airport 20 hrs total.

Shut up all you who are whining and complaining! One of the pilots was looking out for your safety while the other wanted to take off in dangerous weather. Be glad you were able to go home at all. There are too many air disasters to even fathom so i commend the pilot who was looking out for you and also for being transparent. Would you rather be lied to?
So just shut up and count your blessings.