In the coming days, Alaska Airlines will once again transition to having an all-Boeing fleet…
Continue reading: Alaska Airlines Retiring Airbus A321neos, Returning To All-Boeing Fleet
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Still salty about Alaska swooping in to buy Virgin America from under JetBlue. I feel that was the tipping point where JB was really starting to flail. It would have been a great match, with JB flying an all-Airbus fleet. Would have given them the ability to grow into a true competitor to the big 3. And now with Delta’s middle finger to loyal customers, it would have been nice to have a real competitor to move over to.
Alaska is so in the pocket of Boeing, it's crazy. It was one thing to retire somewhat aged A319 and A320 aircraft, particularly when new 737s were coming on line. But these A321neos are relatively new a/c with capabilities that Boeing's rewarmed 737MAX doesn't match. To me, this is crazy wasteful (it would be different if we were talking about adding Airbus jets to an all Boeing fleet, but they already had the expertise to fly these A320 series a/c). This reliance on the 737, which is not the greatest aircraft, simply astonishes me.
It simply made little sense for AS to hold onto an Airbus fleet given that it decided fairly early on that it would not have a premium lie flat or even the angled business class product that Virgin America had on its A320 family fleet.
AS is adding aircraft that have larger gauge (average seat size) than what Virgin America had on its aircraft other than the A321NEOs.
The AS A321NEOs are very nice aircraft; if they go to AA, they need very little to be a very competitive product and to provide AA with some much needed additional capacity.
Like Southwest, AS recognizes the value of a simple fleet.
Those that think that AS and B6 should merge should note how costly the AS - Virgin America merger (acquisition) has been to AS and why AS is not interested in going down the road of operating what is now a 4 aircraft type fleet while also trying to be a low cost carrier.
I wonder if AA will use these to add some seasonal transatlantic capacity next summer? Maybe PHL-EDI and PHL-SNN. Or an extra daily PHL-DUB service…
My understanding here is that the benefits of a single type of aircraft will greatly outweigh the perks of on a321. The number of customers who actually care about the aircraft they are flying on, especially domestically, is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. However, having the same planes will simplify nearly every other aspect of running the airline itself. You bypass all of the issues of pilots and FA's having to be certified on different types of aircraft, you are able to significantly reduce your inventory of repair parts, and it means you can swap out planes without causing issues with customer assigned seating. For an airline such as Alaska, it makes so much more sense to me.
Pretty sure they get trained by Alaska on the 737. I'm sure it takes a little bit of time, but I don't think it's as long a process as it could be since they're both jets.
Are American's neos actually not ETOPS? Don't they fly them to Hawaii from LAX and PHX?
So the A32x does not work unless you have a premium or lie flat product? Someone better tell Spirit or EasyJet as they might be surprised.
As it was not specified in the article (from what I skimmed through), Alaska has a total of 5 A321neos that would presumably be transferred to AA (per Wiki)
More like it doesn’t work if you have five of them. You want fleet consistency if you’re a smaller LCC, not Delta’s oddball “we’ll fly anything” fleet they can use because they’re huge.
AS needed to replace VX’s A319/320 ceo planes as well as their older 73G/73Hs, they went with MAX and Boeing, not Airbus. Everything else follows from that. Perhaps it was the wrong decision but once they went with Boeing for their fleet refresh Airbus was leaving the fleet.
It doesn’t make sense to fly a fleet that is 95% Boeing/5% Airbus when you’re an LCC. When Alaska decided their A320ceo and 73H replacement was the MAX9, that was it. If they had instead gone with A320neos to go with more A321neos they would be dumping the Boeing fleet over time, but presumably Boeing was cutting deals given how disastrous MAX has been for them.
Alaska Airlines purchase of Virgin and what they did after has to be some kind of corruption or fraud thing.
There are definitely cost benefits to having a single fleet type, both with maintenance and not having to retrain pilots as frequently. Even its Horizon fleet has gone that direction, having axed the Q400s. Given Alaska's current 737 fleet, and its home base in Boeing county, its going with the MAX is no surprise.
Pilots routinely retrain to fly different types of aircraft. One of the benefits for Alaska of again having all its planes share a single type rating (737) is reduced pilot training costs going forward because there won't be any more retraining for pilots changing aircraft types. (This happens a lot at larger airlines with complex fleets because essentially all pilot contracts give higher pay for flying larger aircraft, which creates incentives for pilots to try to bid to fly those bigger planes.)
You mean, no chance at all that it was simply a decision that in hindsight turned out to be wrong?
AS did not have a lie flat or similar product on its 737 fleet so the retaining the Virgin America fleet accomplished that for the time.
The A320 family and B737 family have pretty similar capabilities and costs for domestic and near international routes which is all AS flies.
Larger carriers including AA, DL and UA have both families in service and on order and can justify the higher complexity far better than AS
As Pedro highlights - lots of benefits to fleet simplicity. If you are operating a sub-scale (<100 of a specific aircraft type) mixed fleet, it is expensive to keep all the necessary parts, crew scheduling complexity, etc.
Also, you say they're in the pocket of Boeing but I would imagine they get pretty good contracts in terms of pricing. There are always benefits to larger orders - for example Ryanair and Southwest probably pay the least for 737 of any airline in the world. Alaska likely doesn't get those deals but would still do well given the close relationship.
Glad that AA is getting some extra capacity along with a better FC product for a few years. As a 6'8" man thats based in DFW, the "OASIS" project has been devastating to my knees, back, hips, ankles, elbows, and believe it or not, my forehead (since the bathrooms are so cramped I have to use my head to stabilize myself. EMBARRASSING to pay thousands for a a domestic flight and still be uncomfortable along with being emasculated and made to feel like cattle. Thanks American Airlines!
Back then, VX should have merged with JetBlue. We need new airlines to enter the market to increase competition.
But then again, AS and VA share the same engine preferences (CFMI) whereas B6 prefers PW and IAE
Definitely agree with you here, Tim (excluding the LCC designation, unless you're referring simply to OpEx). Alaska is trying to have a West Coast focus, and a simpler, extremely consistent fleet makes sense for that. Merging with JetBlue and their large Caribbean network wouldn't make sense - buying Virgin American was all about the California slots they would get out of the (admittedly costly) deal, and as a frequent Alaska flyer I personally have benefited from the merger.
I sometimes toy with the idea of a Hawaiian/Alaska merger and while it might make more sense than JetBlue/Alaska it would still be simply ridiculous at this point in time.
On a different Alaska airlines matter. The attendants at reception in their C and D lounges at Seattle need retraining. 3 times they tried to stop me entering during a 6hr layover despite me being emerald oneworld with qantas and flying in first from new York. They were read the riot act and I got in. I have no patience for incompetence.
Alaska’s 321s have 16 f/c seats and American’s have 20. That can cause problems at the hubs when an aircraft goes ots or there’s an oso. I’m sure it won’t be too long before AA adds another row to the Alaska 321s. Enjoy the extra room while you can.
Was it wrong? They removed a serious competitor and kept another competitor from acquiring them and becoming a serious challenge to them. If you think they ever intended to keep those planes or the VX configurations you weren't paying attention.
Alaska competes against Southwest.
https://simpleflying.com/why-low-cost-carriers-stick-to-one-plane-type/
Doesn’t work like that! In fact that would easily cause mishaps, heck it causes mishaps hopping between different variants of a common type rating let alone what you are suggesting!
These A321neos matchup very well with the same fleet type at AA who is one of the largest Airbus Operators in the world. It would be a good addition for AA .
Alaska did not swoop in, they were already in negotiations with Virgin America when JetBlue jumped in, which all that did was raise the purchase price. A JetBlue/Virgin America merger would not have been as great as you might think, although all Airbus, not all the same engine manufacturer, which would have increased JetBlue's maintenance and parts cost, and would have had to add difference training for the pilots. Not as expensive as two completely different fleets, but greater costs just the same. So JetBlue may have ultimately did what Alaska did, and retired the Virgin American fleet.
Alaska is foolish for doing this. Mixed fleets work and work well. Just look at American, Delta and United. As we often said, Alaska doesn't play to win, they play not to lose.
Hopefully JetBlue will come in a few years and buy out Alaska. I'm sure once the MAX is grounded again, Alaska will be looking for a way to get some help.
Alaska and Boeing made a bedroom deal for the MAX. No one wanted to buy that garbage airframe. But since they are neighbors in Seattle, Boeing practically gave Alaska the garbage aircraft for nothing.
I care about what aircraft I'm flying on. Especially when it comes to ETOPS. I will never fly Alaska to Hawaii as long as they use the MAX aircraft.
And confirmed in the AA earnings 10-Q today - they are joining American through Jan 2024 (I assume that's a repainting timing thing)