New KLM 777 Business Class: Good, But Not Amazing

Just wondering... Should KLM be able to get away with it?
If they sell a stream voucher that is not fit for purpose, at a minimum, they should reimburse you for it.
If they were unable to provide the Business Class meal experience they paid for, at a minimum I think they should offer some compensation.
I'm not suggesting taking this to court or anything silly, but I cannot imagine any other business getting away with this.

Were you offered any compensation for the meal issue? It’s unacceptable to pay business class prices and get premium economy goods

Business passengers should be compensated for that. Part of what you are paying for long-haul service is superior meals as advertised.

Maybe the AI is predicting that toilets might not work so reducing meals might be a good way to handle it.

Like you said, the meal fiasco was not the crew's fault and it sounds like they did the best they could do. But this is definitely not acceptable on any level. If you got a PE meal, then what did those in PE receive, an economy meal? Did some economy passengers have to go hungry as a result? Really looking forward to hearing how KLM compensates you for this. If it were me and I had paid cash, then the bare minimum would be a cash refund of the fare difference between business and PE. And I would demand that KLM go well above and beyond the bare minimum.

The Dutch, unlike the French, aren’t known for their cuisine. This looks quite normal.

How the heck does AI predict less food waste? How about loading all business class meals and if there are passengers sleeping or declining to eat, those meals could go to PE elite passengers. Then repeat for the PE passengers who are passing on the meal service onward to Y passengers.

Ugh, I wish they had gone with modified versions of the Safran Cirrus seats that they have on the 787-9 rather than the JAMCO ones they started installing on the 787-10. I have definitely had issues with "ghost movements" on these seats, with the seat randomly moving. I think part of the problem is the angled silver ledge just behind the tray table. It is an area where many people will naturally rest their arm. However, just below this is a single recline button. I have found that if you rest too firmly on the ledge (or push down on it), it will activate the seat recline, even if you do not push the button itself. Also, the silver ledge has some sort of sticker coating or weird paint that comes off easily, to reveal white plastic underneath. It is a product that does not age well.

Miguel,

The fare difference between PE and J is $2200 o/w. And you are going to "demand KLM go well above and beyond" that!??! Good luck with that.

Still looks light-years ahead of Lufthansa business class.

Their algorithmic approach to meal catering sounds as if they were pitched a product by a consultant or other vendor and went along with it, without considering the implications and of course the vendor hasn't considered the real world issues of actually running an airline... At a minimum you have to set the tolerance that you under deliver food essentially to 0 but I'm guessing if you did that the cost savings would be minimal (or you have a bad model).

On an unrelated note - why are airlines installing wireless charging? I realize it solves issues around cable standards changing but it's not a good solution for charging. The speeds are incredibly slow, your phone gets very hot, and with normal flight movement it's hard to keep the phone positioned properly. I used it on a United flight recently with their latest domestic First seats and I think I maybe gained 4% charge on a 2 hour flight...

Thank you very much for this detailed review.

As a French wine connoisseur and great Champagne lover, I consider the KLM wine list as literally "disgusting". They typically serve almost the same Economy Class wines as Gulf/Asian Carriers do.

I'm quite new in this blog yet and I definitely appreciate when you rate/underscore the wines or bubbles poured onboard. No need to be a specialist but I think relevantly shows how a carrier considers its Premium Pax.

Regarding food, I wonder if KLM is a Dutch carrier or an Asian/Indonesian/Thai one ; as if typical tasty Dutch food were not existing or enough proudly highlighted.

The food and wine in WBC hasn’t been great these past few years. Despite the botched meal service and weird mix of dishes, what you received seems to be better than the norm. The wines are universally terrible on KLM and all seem to average less than $10 in the supermarket.

Overall I like KLM and the quirks you call out, but the food and wine are very lacking. Ultimately I think this is a reflection of Dutch culture. Airlines like AF serve great food and wine with pride and as a reflection of their food and wine culture. KLM seems to only care about serving whatever is “good enough”, and that’s exactly how many Dutch people approach life in general.

I would definitely prefer the wireless charging. It is less of an issue with cables, but more with the outlet. I routinely encounter outlets on planes that are nonfunctional, or only functional if you have the charger at a very specific angle (and it will move and stop charging within 30 seconds). On my Delta flight on Tuesday, I had my phone plugged in the whole time, and somehow I lost charge during the flight...

I'd be curious to know what meals the 12+ crew consumed on this flight in light of the catering issues. Did they opt for P/E meals as well in order to accomodate J class pax?

My partner is Dutch and I would absolutely agree with your assesment. We have stopped flying KL for the most part in favor of DL. Its not "bad" but the quirks have become tiresome.

I only flew KLM on three occasions - each time long-haul and in business - but each time I got mixed feelings, although must've been my expectations issue. Netherlands are a fascinating country with amazing culture and history, and every time headed for boarding, I couldn't help but expect a JAL/ANA level of service/cultural detail. And each time I left feeling that I had an OK business class flight, and the blue houses are really cute, and nothing more.

I flew old 2-2-2 seats, but they didn't bother me. What I found underwhelming was the food (just passable), service (good, but each time you can tell that it's trained, not sincere), and just overall lack of knowing I'm flying that uniquely blue plane that always stood out to me when I was a little kid looking out the airport windows.

IMHO KLM could be and should be in JAL/ANA league, but its merely an AF shadow.

Why do you feel the need to drag Asian carriers and Asian food into your criticism? Tell me which of the offerings are Indonesian? You really don't know what you're talking about... now THAT's disgusting!

KLM is always trumpeting the fact that their meals are created by Jonnie de Boer, who is a famous chef owning probably the most exclusive 3-star Michelin restaurant in the Netherlands. In my experience the meals always feel weird and cheap, and like a big thick soup of sauces that mix all the ingredients together…

Regarding wine, Delta is serving chateneuf de pape these days and even United is serving whispering angel rose. KLM seems to be serving the latest Chilean reds from the Albert Hein bonus days.

Well I started the year on New Year’s Day by being upgraded to business class on ARN-AMS as the flight was full/overnooked in economy.
Now on Europe flights it doesn’t mean much as it’s just an empty middle seat on a 737 and a boxed meal except that … we got upgraded at the gate … no business class meal had been loaded so we got the packed economy cheese sandwich
Obviously it was a free upgrade so could say “nothing to complain about” but it just adds on to their Dutch always cheap approach. Food waste is sad indeed but I think it’s just an excuse to save a few bucks.
Now on a trip to Japan on a so called business class light fare … with a friend with no status … well he would not get lounge access if he wasn’t flying with me (Platinum who can bring a guest) while they let AMEX platinum holders in … go figure.
As you write Lucky, KLM just aims at being average

Crew meals are entirely separate.

Ben,

Can you please show photos of the menus, bedding, the seat in bed configuration and the amenity kit.
Thanks

I can’t believe Ben is in Jozzy ! Joberg has been on my radar for a while. I want to fly LHR OR Tambo on BA a380. I still flew more miles than Ben this week. Iah lax hnd lax hnd Iah. I feel sick. Good night everyone.

I go out of my way to fly KLM over Delta, simply because the crew is so much more pleasant than what you get with Delta. The hard product isn’t great compared to Delta or AirFrance, but the food always seems to be decent in business class and service is in another league compared to Delta. I flew KLM from ATL-AMS a couple weeks ago and the purser wrote a note thanking me for my loyalty, even though I’m a member of SkyMiles instead of Flying Blue, and even let me choose two Delft Blue houses! Very refreshing compared to the nasty attitudes I usually experience from Delta’s FA’s.

LOLZ @ all the comments suggesting a dumb reward ticket should get compensation from KLM.

If you won’t seek out KLM then surely that doesn’t leave many European carriers that you would seek out in international business class? Do you think you could even fill a Top 10 list for European business class? I agree AF are trying to be more premium, I just won’t fly them because of their patchy safety record.

Not a fan of KLM...AF is overall a better product and experience.

Here's what the Dutch response to that would be in English: "Sorry, that is not possible."

Nor should it be. Compensation in the form of a fare difference between classes over a few missing meal elements? Come on.

I'd be disappointed too, but demanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars would and should be met with the hilarious indifference demanding it would deserve, especially in the Netherlands.

KLM is the sort of airline that is not known for its outright luxuriousness or aspirational qualities but because of its convenience, efficiency, and practicality, especially when it comes to its network and connecting through AMS. There's a certain style and quirkiness to the airline that make me want to try them again, especially in either this product or their reverse herringbone products, having tried their non-all-aisle access products previously. I find their food hit-or-miss, however, and also oftentimes not very aesthetically pleasing. And I had the same packaged cookie on KLM about 5 years ago on one of their short-haul economy flights, lol.

Their mini shoe-sized salt and pepper holders are gone too! What a shame.

It is worth noting that KLM may not have many planes with the new layout. We travelled from AMS to Cape Town in January. The flight down was on a new configuration 777 as scheduled, but they changed equipment a few days before our return flight, and we had a 787 with a 2-2-2 configuration in business. The interesting thing is when we asked a pair of flight attendants about what happened to the expected 1-2-1 layout, they both denied that KLM had any planes with a 1-2-1 layout. One of them later realized that I must be referring to the "new" cabin and said that there are very few of them. Apparently so, given that they thought I was making it up.

Biggest takeaway from both flight experiences is the deliberately hot temperature in the cabin. Maybe this is well known, but as we hadn't flown KLM long-haul before, we were surprised and annoyed at how hot the cabin was. Made it very difficult to sleep, on flights where passengers are obviously expecting to sleep. (especially with a 0:30 am departure on the return leg.) When asked the flight attendants made clear that the 23 C/74 F temperature was deliberate, and saved them from any complaints about it being too cold! Sorry, but if you're going to keep it that hot, I'm flying someone else next time.

KLM from Schipol to Dubai in the new business class 777 cabin. I found the seat rather hard and the sliding door does not add much privacy. The meal service took about 4 hours to complete which was painfully slow.

Cabin crew were friendly and somewhat helpful but had all visibly been doing this job for a long time so were not as eager to please as less experienced crew members often are.

No comparison between the chic Air France business class experience and dear old KLM, if ever you have the choice.

KLM (along with Schiphol) has really gone downhill since the pandemic. Average hard product in J and poor food / wine. At least they have improved the inflight entertainment. At one point they only had about 8-10 movies to choose from, which were all universally terrible. AF is a far better airline and is a pleasure to fly.

Seats and service sound ok.
If Catering was really about avoiding food waste and not purely cost cutting, they'd cater sufficient business class meals, risk being short on premium/eco meals and use the extra business meals in premium eco, in case the algorithm was wrong...
I'd say this is cost cutting, with a side of sustainability marketing...

Nice lounge in Amsterdam? The KLM lounge is very poor for a major hub lounge, with very limited food and not enough space most of the time.

Light fares don't get lounge access, but Amex cards don't either (assuming you're talking about KL lounge).

You must talk about shengen one. The non shengen is quite large.

KLM does not (and never has had) 787s flying with 2-2-2, you must have been switched to an old config 777. However, almost their entire 777-300ER fleet is now fitted with the new cabin, but their 777-200ER fleet refit has not started yet. There are no plans for their A330s to get the new cabins as of now...so yes, quite a few planes still fly in 2-2-2.

KLM does not have 787s with a 2-2-2 layout. If you were swapped to a 2-2-2 layout, you were either on a 777 with the old configuration, or an older A330. From the latest info I could find, 10 of 16 777-300ER planes have been modified, and 0 of 15 777-200s. There are still 11 A330s with 2-2-2 layout. With 23 787s total, that means 33 of KLMs planes have 1-2-1, and 32 have 2-2-2.

I too have had a plane swap from CPT-AMS (787 to old 777), it does not seem rare. And the planes are hot, I always bring a USB fan.

@ben I recently flew this AMS-LAX on a retrofitted 777 and had issues with the Wi-Fi as well. I requested a refund as when it worked it was almost too slow to load emails and then it just stopped working at a few points. I was very quickly offered a refund. (Funny enough, with the fluctuation in currency exchange I made a few cents profit ). On the outbound I had a 781 and the seat would magically start moving itself the entire flight unless it was fully up right. I would be sleeping and then it would start moving back to a recline or from eating to sleep. It was so bizarre and the FA couldn’t figure it out as nothing was being pressed.

I agree about your description of AF vs KL. I really enjoy KL J and think they’re nice and fun and I really feel the personality of the airline, but I’m always feeling they’re slightly missing the mark in a lot of areas. I definitely feel like I’m getting a little more upscale / thoughtful product and service with AF.

Are the bulkhead seats (like 1A and 2k) in the new KLM 777 similar to the bulkhead seats in the new AF 777 (ottoman with lots of foot space) or are they the same as every other row?

Delta needs to get rid of any FA that is over the age of 40. Let the youngsters take over.

The non Schengen one is still packed all the time and it can be hard to find a seat in morning hours. Irrespective of crowds, the lounge is just so-so in my mind. The food has been the same boring selection for years. KLM clearly aiming for “average” and whatever is good enough rather than looking to surprise or delight passengers.

Both lounges also have a major mice problem, FYI.

At least the adjusted the catering for the pre-arrival meal in general. We flew in January and got the hamburger, which is nice but not a full meal. I complaint about the lack of a proper second meal service on a 12h flight. We also landed at 22:30 so not a real time to go eat somewhere.

Maybe I am the minority here but I don’t like to freeze on airplanes. 23C sounds very comfortable. For those who are hot, you can always take off your sweater.

I don’t miss air nozzles either - if the plane has them, my first action is to close them.

I rather feel some airlines are keeping the cabin cold to save on heating costs.

Would the impression and future review have been a bit better had there not been issues with the catering?

Take the 90 minutes delay. Absolutely unacceptable service.

Uh like in Logan's run scifi book. We can make biscuits with the oldies...

Interesting, thanks. I'll admit I relied on what the flight attendant told me, and didn't actually check. It was really late, so maybe I misheard, or maybe they are even more unfamiliar with their fleet than I realized.

So Ben, it sounds like the bulkheads here are not like the AF bulkhead with the huge ottoman. My family and I are scheduled to be in a 777-300ER this summer from AMs-ORD and it says “World Business class” in the seat selection with 35 biz class seats. Will this be the new seat? I didn’t see in your review where you stayed number of seats. If the bulkhead is different I will take the bulkhead row. If not I will stick with row 2x

35 seats in 1-2-1 is the new seat.
34 seats in 2-2-2 is the old seat.

I’m in the same situation, as long as there is no airplane swap.

If you grew up in Central Europe, this would be logical to you. The Dutch are protestants of a special sort, many of which are calvinists. They despise luxury beyond a certain point and you show off how you´re not too indulging into luxury. The French are Catholics and luxury is in their cultural DNA. I read your report and I commend your sharp observation, but this is culturally predestined.

I generally like KLM, but their „green food policy“ on steroids is just abysmal. Another example is that they abolished salad dressing on shorthaul flights to save some weight … oh boy, we are talking about 10 grams per business class pax!

Letting the airplane get hot is cheaper than cooling. Anyone who understands aircraft pressurization systems understands this.

Also, hot planes suck. Wear a sweater if you are cold.

Food on KLM business class seems to be a small selection of tapas as main course and is usually very poor

They also had a month last year where they only swerved vegetarian food. Not what someone paying thousands of dollars for a business class ticket wants or expects…. And it wasn’t pasta but several weird “beyond-meat” type dishes.

I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect , like it was many years ago. I actually was surprised how friendly the team were, helpful, interested. I just want a good seat, good entertainment, and most of all a top crew.

I flew both the update 777 business class and the old business class. I prefer the old business class, the newer made me feel locked in an you seat lower in the new one, to compact. Food on a plane is not interesting to me, so no comment. KLM service on the flight with the newer business class was actually poor, arrogant and not friendly at all. The flight with the older seats ,was perfect , like it was many years ago. I just want a good seat, good entertainment, and most of all a top crew.

Great Review,

As for location in the plane, are there any advantages for Bulk head seats ?
Would you prefer sitting in the Mini Cabin rows 8 & 9 ?

Thanks for the great article as always. I agree with the other commenter who said this "reduce food waste" idea is more "cost cutting with a side of marketing." Why do corporations have to pretend? If you want to reduce service, just say it. Disappointing because I love KLM. Sounds like they are making some things worse, some things better. Too bad when the Middle East airlines (and AF, as you point out) are going into the stratosphere.

Well said!
Living in Amsterdam and took several business class flights, KLM is one of the worst. They have a lot to learn but based on their culture - they won’t .

Not a word on seat length! Amateur!

If Business got Premium Economy, I presume Premium Economy got Economy. So what did Economy get?

In response to previous comment,about half the Netherlands is Catholic,they're not all calvinists,not all French are Catholics.Lets not get stupid in trying to explain away poor catering in top tier bookings.

In response to previous comment,about half the Netherlands is Catholic,they're not all calvinists,not all French are Catholics.Lets not get ridiculous in trying to explain away poor catering in top tier bookings.

we are couple and interested to book a business class seat. Is there any option to see each other throughout the air journey?

you know the house is full of gin, right?

I had the same problem with the meal in business class on their Amsterdam to Paramaribo route, but we got no meals from economy class just a hamburger as pre landing meal. As for their new business class seats I will see in 2 weeks when I fly to Amsterdam.

I have been fortunate to fly KLM and Air France business class several times recently and CDG is enough reason I now choose KLM whenever possible. Air France is definitely better service, and better food, the seats seem close enough and I appreciate the Dutch charm and the little houses. They are close enough that the airport decides it for me unless I am actually going to France.

Just flew the product ATL/AMS......Agree with the article, it was a good product. Solid, not a wow. Maybe just me, but I could not seem to get comfortable on this particular trip.