Hello from New York, as I’m just wrapping up the return journey of my quick trip, and flew from Paris (CDG) to New York (JFK). Let me start by disclosing that I’m traveling as a guest of Air France today — it’s the first airline media flight invite that I’ve accepted in about 15 years.
Continue reading: New Air France La Premiere First Class: What A Beauty!
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
It's interesting AF copied LH old F concept of recliner next to a dedicated berth.
Just wow. Like you said, the real product is way more impressive than the renderings. Could look even better in person...
@ tuotuo -- There are two other media folks, plus Ben Smith, the Air France-KLM CEO (there were initially supposed to be four media people in first class, but one had to cancel at the last minute).
Interesting, to be honest the seat part looks better than I thought from the renderings. Looking forward to how much space you have on the seat when the curtain is (partly)-closed and if you are touching it.
@ NS -- Yeah, honestly, the real thing is much more impressive than the renderings, and I also think it looks better in person than in the pictures I've posted.
@ neogucky -- Yeah, I was expecting the seat would feel narrow and that the TV would feel like it's too high up, but I'm not finding either of those to be the case. Haven't closed the curtain yet or tried the bed, but I'll report back!
@ JoeMart -- Hah, I see where you're coming from, though the design is definitely a bit different. I guess we've also seen airlines like Etihad and Singapore do that, with a separate seat and bed.
Bonjour.
I wonder what kind of Wi-Fi speeds are you getting. And doesn't the tablet seem overengineered or complicated to use?
Like I've been saying time and time again, I prefer floor to ceiling curtains to doors. Aside from being lighter than actual doors, it seems cozier as well as it muffles sound and blocks light better than doors that don't even go all the way up.
Bon voyage monsieur.
And just to let you know, you're at 32,000 feet with a biz jet right on top of you, a Swiss A330 right behind you headed the same way, and a DL A350 right in front of you from Amsterdam headed to Atlanta 😉
@ Mike O. -- Hahaha, appreciate the flight status update, since I haven't had much chance to even check! Wi-Fi speeds are surprisingly decent, and Starlink is coming soon, so will take that to the next level.
I am not great with tech, but I have to say, the tablet is very easy to use, and it's nice, because you can plug it in either at the seat or at the bed. It controls basically every seat function, from the window shades, to the lighting, to the entertainment.
Ben, nice pictures! you should get a picture with the CEO! Maybe even an autograph!!! Thank you
Ben, the pull out storage bin looks slightly different from the publicly release photographs. I don’t suppose you have any internal measurements to share with us please?
Ben - do you notice the curtain while sitting in the seat? With the side table closest to the window, it looks like there’s no room between the curtain and seat. It looks like the curtain kind of bunches up near the seat/headrest area which could be a little annoying.
Hey Ben, have you had an opportunity to lie down in the seat? What surprised me from the initial release images, is that the seat and chaise lounge are not fully aligned. Hence one would think that on bed mode, the width of the sleeping surface would be significantly reduced.
Enjoy, looking forward to hear your final thoughts on what seems like an industry-leading product!
Thanks for the preview—looks amazing! Have they also updated the (now 2) lavatories and galley area? And relatedly does AF set up grab-and-go drinks / snacks or is all service through the FAs?
@ Steve -- I'm currently sitting in the seat enjoying a meal, and forgot the curtain existed until you mentioned it. It's really quite far back, and unless you turn your head 90 degrees, you won't even see it. The seat is wider than you might think, and I haven't bumped into the curtain with my arm even once.
@ AeroB13a -- I'll see if I can get a tape measure, but for what it's worth, my overstuffed, maximum US sized carry-on fits in there, as does my backpack.
@ GS -- The two lavatories have been refreshed a bit as well, and look a bit more modern. I'll post pictures with the review. There's no grab & go station, but there's a brand new snack menu (there's even a card for it), which the crew hands out, and there's a tray of snacks they'll bring to your seat.
@ Ben Holz -- I haven't made the bed yet or tried to sleep. For what it's worth, the bed's dimensions are almost identical to the old one. It looks wider in person than it did in pictures. I'll report back!
Is the seat very comfortable, as it looks a little hard? Do they give you a mattress pad? Sorry, one more question. Could you get us a picture with the CEO or maybe an autograph, or maybe is that too much to ask? 🙂
You are a star in a reasonably priced AF cabin. Thank you, very much appreciated.
My concern is the Small Rimowa cabin case which “She who must be obeyed” stuffs full of her ‘bottles and jars’. I will not get her onto a flight to SIN if the case has to be bumped down into the hold.
Ha, Ben, I am tracking you too! You did not answer my question the other day about it but i still found you
You would have to be brain dead to fly this product over the much superior Delta One. I'd even take Delta Coach over this. At least you can get a Biscoff in Delta Coach.
TD, if that is your honest opinion then you have just lost all credibility.
If you are posting just to wind up the trolls then be prepared to take the incoming very soon.
P, I’m chomping at the bit to take an early New La Premiere flight to SIN.
One is content in the knowledge that there are others like me so inclined to give it a punt.
Some might also say that the ME & FE carriers have had it all their own way for far too long.
Good on AF for their foresight.
First of all, where does this strange idea of a bed facing the rear ?
Then, sory to say but when you look at their prices, who could probably fly twice in first with perfect conditions with the same price ! It is ridiculous ...
S, trust me on this point, after years of sleeping north, south, east and west, sat upright and even between inboard extra fuel tanks on C130 and in the A400M, rear sleeping on the New La Premiere bed is something which I am really looking forward to.
Once the service to SIN is rolled out two suits will be booked …. blow the expense, there are no pockets in shrouds.
@ HC -- It's the curtain, basically the same curtain as you'll find at the window seats.
They won't have a problem selling it, although the seat footprint means that it isn't likely to be more profitable than business class or even premium economy. AF aren't stupid, they'll still want it for the halo effect.
@ Schatz -- I'd actually consider rear facing seats to be an advantage. Planes fly at a slight upward angle, so that means your head is a bit higher than your legs, which seems preferred. As far as pricing goes, you're absolutely right -- Air France goes after the absolute top of the market, so there are no deals to be had. But people pay those prices, so...
@ Throwawayname -- Let me challenge that, actually. Air France isn't introducing this new first class in isolation. It's part of full overhaul of four-cabin 777-300ERs, which will be the carrier's flagship aircraft for years to come.
The way that Air France is reconfiguring these jets is any airline executive's wet dream. The airline is introducing the new first class, increasing the business class seat count by two, increasing the premium economy seat count by 16, and reducing the economy seat count by two.
The efficiency here is next level, and it's not like Air France could otherwise sell more than 60 business class seats on a vast majority of flights.
@ Stefan -- I find the padding to be good! There's a mattress pad with turndown service, but I haven't gotten that far yet!
Looks great just wish the seat was not rear facing, I often get a little travel sick when flying in this type of configuration.
Looks really nice, actually. At first I thought the silver trays next to each seat were small bar sinks -- I guess an upgrade for some far future first class might be running water at each seat, or even a private toilet in each cabin or apartment.
Given that the seat no longer has to go completely flat (since you have the bed), I think airlines with this kind of configuration have the opportunity to make a seat that looks more like furniture than a safety harness (of course, it would still need restraints and be anchored, but still they might be able to go for a more "club chair" vibe).
I'll never fly this but hopefully some of the design sensibility will rub off on more accessible products.
Ben, you have to know media flights are gonna be harder to judge objectively than your regular reviews. I mean, you’re flying with the airline CEO?? With that said, I don’t see how this is a different level than the old product. It looks more like a refurbish with some tech and storage updates. It’s the same layout, same level of privacy (no doors), and same type of amenities. This cabin would not be significantly more competitive to other top first class options than the previous cabin. Still no onboard lounge, no enclosed doors like Emirates, no distinct tech features like in-seat headphones.
Obviously I would be ecstatic to fly this cabin but I don’t see how it could be “on another level” than the previous cabin. Where other airlines are in fact launching first class suites that blow away their previous option.
Hi Ben, this looks stellar. Enjoy the trip!! I have a question on the menu, did they improve the choices? I watched Non Stop Dan's LP review and I found it disappointing how lacking their vegan options were and how they weren't befitting of a first class, the snack was not even business class level.
Clearly you have never actually flown La Premiere if that is your comment. There is not even the slightest way to compare these two.
I actually flew Delta One last week to Paris because I had heard so much about it and I was very much looking forward to it but I will say the best part about the entire trip was the lounge at LAX. The Delta One seat was so uncomfortable I could not sleep at all. The inflight entertainment was horrific and had movies from 20 years ago and the food Was nothing to write home about. I've had better On American Airlines in domestic first class.
I have been lucky enough to fly La Premiere a few times and even before this renovation it was by far my best in flight experience to date.
It starts with ground transportation to the airport and VIP escort through security. Once on board You are blown away.
Except when taking off an landing. At take off, you have to jam your feet somewhere as you are pulled forward with the belt cutting into your body in rear facing seats. Very uncomfortable. And the scenery passing as you look out the window can be disorienting. There is no advantage to these seats. The supposedly planes flying at a slight upward angle is not noticeable. I recall back in the early 00s, this was the same argument used by VS on its angled flat seats. They proved to be a disaster.
That's correct, but it doesn't really challenge the analysis published by various airlines over the years identifying premium economy as the most profitable cabin in terms of the RASK/CASK ratio. I'm not saying that P will make AF lose money hand over fist, just that the economics work differently.
Further proof that AF is the best airline in SkyTeam, at least, and indeed in the broader Western world. The only Western competitor is QF, and only in the lounge department, aside from the recent DL One lounges. Onboard, there’s no competition at all.
Paris and Tokyo seem to be constantly one-upping each other, and the ball is now in Hong Kong’s court. Or Singapore’s?
That said, what if AF’s publicity materials featured Asians for a change aside from Westerners, as a nod to the airline powerhouses in Asia? It sure would be a culture-aware hat-tip from one of the world’s most luxurious airlines, certainly so outside East Asia and the Gulf. Thinking aloud here.
Live your dream, Ben!
"You did not answer my question the other day about it but i still found you"
Er...TravelinWilly (love referring to myself in the third person) answered your question:
"The inaugural flight is tomorrow, 8 April, AF4 CDG-JFK. This is all over social media and the blogosphere."
You're welcome! 🙂
Which seating arrangement do you think is better for couples? From the pictures, I could make both arguments (next to each other, or across the aisle)
How’s the bed? I’m not used to sleeping facing the back of the plane. Does it feel strange lying facing the rear? Would the bed be as comfortable if you lay facing the front?
@ Larry -- I'll report back on the bed in a bit, but I can generally opine that rear facing beds are every bit as comfortable as forward facing beds, if not more comfortable (since planes are angled a few degrees up at cruise), as I've flown in them on several other airlines.
@ Anthony -- It's a great question! Honestly, I think either. The window and center seats are just about as close to one another as the center seats, so I might almost prefer that.
@ Mamad -- I can't speak to vegan options, but the airline has a new snack selection in first class, and I've found the actual meal service is excellent, as always.
@ Throwawayname -- But there are only so many premium economy seats you can sell profitably. This plane now has 44 premium economy seats, which is just about at the upper level of what any airline could reasonably sell.
@ Gopher -- You're absolutely right that the service on this flight is elevated, given that the CEO is onboard. You won't see me disputing that. But I'm talking about the hard product, which has nothing to do with the service or anything else.
I guess in a way you're correct, that it's not material different. Previously, I ranked La Premiere as being the third best first class in the world in the air (and the best on the ground). I'd say the product is still in the top three, and I'm not yet sure whether I'd prefer this to Emirates or Japan Airlines.
That being said, the incremental improvements here are really impressive, if you ask me.
No onboard lounge? You're right, and that's not going to change. No enclosed doors? I think the curtains are better than the doors. No distinct tech features? I mean, headrest speakers are kind of a gimmick, but the tech upgrades here are huge, from the fact that there are close to 10 chargers at the seat, to the bluetooth audio.
As I said when I first wrote about the product, it's evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but that's also because Air France was already starting in a really strong position.
• Speaks nonsense
• Praises Japan
• Says HK/Singaporean airlines are bad these days
• Lapdog comments Ben after threatening him to fly a crappy product that Copa has to offer, and the infamous mocking "visualise yourself flying Qsuites or Air France or JAL or something of that kind! ;)"
Proximanova comment checklist all filled out.
@ Justin dev -- Yeah, to be clear, the seat faces forward, and the bed faces backwards. And if you wanted, you could even sleep in the bed the other way around, facing forwards.
@Ben, curious - are you actually assigned a seat for the whole flight, or since this is a media flight, are you rotating with other people checking it out? Great to see pictures of the actual product!
Thank you Anthony, for asking that question, the same thing popped into my mind too.
Looking at the aeroLOPA schematic, one can clearly see the advantage of a window and centre seat choice. The ease of face to face dining and conversation, etc. Plus, with the centre seats dividing curtain in place, one is still retaining easy movement and privacy too. A cabin within a cabin.
My word Ben, I am really enjoying this topic and so looking forward to the complete review.
You must be exhausted lad!
@ Clem -- Hah, good question. To be clear, it's just La Premiere that has media, the rest of the flight is as usual. So I've been assigned the same seat for the entire flight.
Thank you for the pictures! Something that would be great to see would be the current selection of coffees available.
Thanks for sharing a preview, Ben. Wasn't a fan when I saw the pictures/videos especially after experiencing JL A350-1000 F (preferring the more squarish dimensions of that to the 5-window length on AF New LP). But sounds like the length makes this seat look narrower than it is and its not uncomfortably so.
I know you're hesitant to accept media flights and stays, but want to say I'm glad you took this one. Great preview. Now try to convince the CEO to open up LP award bookings to us common-folk.
Sorry Mason, you forgot something …. ethnicity ….
Proxi, is expecting to see “Asians” instead of “Westerners” in AF publicity material, furthermore, demanding AF be “Culture-aware” and “Hat-tip”, etc, is beyond my comprehension.
Some people miss no opportunity to badmouth anything from the west.
@Ben.
Are you able to sit in either seat for Take Off and/or Landing? They both have seat belts, unless there's some requirement to have your feet on the floor.
Enjoy the flight
That's the last thing that long-term LP customers would want................more points people....eye roll
Sorry Ben more questions I’m afraid ….
The single seat would appear to have an extendable leg rest, is this correct?
Can the chair recline?
With one passenger seated in the chair and the other lounging upon the bed of the same suite, can both passengers watch different programs on the two TV monitors?
Many thanks.
I don't believe face to face is possible with this configuration? Unless Lucky reports back otherwise...
@ JasonB -- Thanks, appreciate it! 🙂 I've approached that general topic, and let me just say that I wouldn't hold my breath, nice as it would be... :p
Hiya, Ben!
Thanks for making an exception and reviewing this for us.
Two questions: do the middle beds become a double? It looks like the partition doesn’t go all the way down, but that would seem like a missed opportunity.
And I know you weren’t able to be at the launch the other week, but I watched all of the other media /vloggers respond and it seemed like people thought it was nice, but they weren’t as impressed as you are. Are you able to see why they weren’t as excited?
Thanks, mate!
@ AeroB13a -- Too funny, I'm so happy I live blogged this, because I didn't realize the seat reclined until you mentioned it. Stay tuned, I'll have an updated post soon with a picture of that, but the recline is significant.
As far as the monitors go, you can only use one monitor at a time. Otherwise, two people could easily chill in one suite at a time.
@ FrozenKiwi -- Unfortunately the center seats don't become a double bed. I think the logistics just became too complicated, and it was a choice of having full privacy between the two suites or a double bed, but not both.
Based on the renderings and the single seat display, I can see how the "wow" factor might have been missing. But actually experiencing the product is a different story. This post will be updated soon with a lot more details, and I think it will show how some of the concerns people had about the seat are not actually an issue.
Are the new business class seats similar to the new seats found on the 3 class 77Ws, or to those on the new A350s?
Again, thank you so much Ben, you continue to be a star in a reasonably priced AF La Premiere suite …. I’m betting that you are exhausted!
@ Emil -- They're similar to the new business seats on the three-cabin 777-300ERs.
I love the kind of retro Hollywood vibe from all the fabric. Is the temperature comfortable behind the closed curtains?
Just in case my question was lost in the mass, would love if you could elaborate on what Ben Smith told you about award availability since you answered a comment in a way that was... not particularly encouraging 😀 .
The CEO previously posted a video that face to face dining is possible. But I thought it looked a little weird because the table needs to be in an angle and the other person has to sit on the couch.
This AF video might be of interest?
https://wwws.airfrance.co.uk/information/cabines/la-premiere/suite-la-premiere
Question: what are those pair of oval-shaped panels in the ceiling bulkhead above the seats in the very first picture in Ben’s report? Storage?
Hey Ben! First off, wow! That new seat looks amazing. La Premiere really gives a vibe of a 5-star luxury grand hotel that many other airline’s first class products just don’t. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to try this, but one can dream. 😉
Unrelated to the seat, but I’m curious as to what your impressions of Ben Smith are. From what I know about him, he seems like a fun guy, and I always appreciate when airline executives are also aviation enthusiasts and don’t just see their airline as any other business. What have your interactions with him been like thus far?
I don’t know if you’re gonna write a proper review of this flight, but if you are I look forward to reading it.
Safe travels!
Awesome pics Ben. Sitting in the lounge right now and watching the plane you arrived in. I am flying the return leg AF1 to Paris.
Hello Ben,
Would you be able to share which publications the other two media members represent ? I am curious if it is mostly internet media or also traditional print media is represented.
Enjoy the journey and I am looking forward to the detailed trip report.
@ Jay -- Funny you ask, because I have a post coming specifically about him. Stay tuned, I got some writing to do, because I had too much fun on the flight!
@ UncleRonnie -- I believe that's just where oxygen masks would drop down from.
@ hbilbao -- Not efficiently, to be honest. In theory someone can sit in the seat and one person on the sofa, but it would be a tight squeeze.
I am in 1A. Looks like the middle seats are not occupied. Surprised actually! Was the bed comfortable? Any tips for me?
lol you do realise that there are non English speaking people and bloggers I would rather rebook than see Non stop Dan, Sam Chui or Josh Cahill.
Hi Ben
Thanks for the live report from this inaugural LP cabin flight ! Your articles have grown to be one of my main sources of information in the last years so a big thanks for that ! Do you have any info on the pace at which they will be renewing the planes ? last time they did the renewal of B773 it was like a plane every 2 months, I suppose it will be quicker if they wanna finish by the end of 2026!
“you do realise that there are non English speaking people and bloggers”
I refuse to believe this.
@ anteo21 -- Thanks for reading! The goal is to reconfigure all 20 four-cabin 777-300ERs by the end of 2026, so it should be quite a fast pace.
@ InternationalTraveler -- So anteo21 revealed one, since he posted publicly. The other was a print journalist from a more traditional media outlet, based in France. One more traditional TV media person was supposed to be on the flight, but had to cancel. Sorry for being vague, but I'm sure you can understand...
@ Regal Roamer -- Just updated the post with a lot more details. Please report back on your take. I hope you have an amazing flight!
Welcome back to NY!
I have to say it, but I feel like whenever I'm corresponding with someone in the air, it gives me a vibe like someone has just been let in the pearly gates and they're enjoying themselves with champagne lol
If I had the chance to be in the same room (or in your case cabin) with an airline CEO, my top 3 topics to ask would be aircraft, routes and product.
There’s a teaser on TPG with some absolutely ridiculous pictures of Nicky in the F seats!! lol
I have just read your update Ben, the additional information and photographs are most welcome and reassuring to someone who is about to spend his own money on my first AF flight since 1982.
Thank you for a most entertaining day Ben, sleep well wherever you see your bed next.
"I intentionally brought an oversized carry-on."
Would have been super hilarious if they had made you gate-check it. =)
It is interesting that, within a few months of each other, the world's two best first class offerings, JAL and Air France both introduced new revolutionized first class suites.
85k one way in business class to most destinations outside of Europe (even as close to CDG as Central/West Africa), we with occasional 60k credit card specials available to/from the USA and MEX. P is only relevant for Platinum status holders (a level which some of us don't see as worth pursuing given that Gold is Elite Plus, giving you all the Sky priority benefits).
Love Air France, by far one of the best airlines globally but this product is really disappointing ( relatively speaking from a first class pov) and the older La Preimiere is a better product IMHO.
The curtains are too close to the seat - any elbow movement will move the curtains.
TV as pointed out small and one of them is too high (above the chair).
The lounge and seat too close, if fully extended it looks cramped.
The overall vibe is that Air France felt the need to refresh but they wanted to do it VERY CHEAPLY so they went with this.
Air France is a great option for J class but for F, I would splurge on something else… unless I get invited 😉
There are a few points of origin from which P tickets are just very expensive, as opposed to bordering on the insane. I'm pretty certain that I have seen some €7-8k return fares out of Italy- which is still a fair bit more than what I'm prepared to pay, but could perhaps be justified by a well-off person travelling on a honeymoon or another special occasion. Whether the plan is to introduce the new product maintaining those price levels or to try and hike them well into the five figures is a different question.
Do most people care about wireless charging? It charges slow and I can't imagine most are leaving their phone in that same spot for an hour or two to allow it to charge.
Look, I know La Première looks great in photos, but let’s be real — international first class is basically a vanity project at this point. Airlines aren’t investing in it because the numbers don’t make sense. Over the past decade, more than 20 major international carriers have reduced or scrapped first class entirely, and the seat count globally has dropped by over 70%. Why? Because today’s business class — especially from airlines like Delta with Delta One Suites — delivers 90% of the experience (lie-flat beds, privacy doors, direct aisle access, upgraded dining, etc.) for about half the cost.
And let’s not pretend Delta doesn’t want to dominate at the top end. If there were real, scalable demand for international first class, Delta would absolutely be offering it. They’ve poured money into Delta One lounges, branded bedding, and consistent soft product upgrades — they clearly understand the premium traveler. But unlike airlines clinging to first class as a brand halo, Delta is focused on a product that people actually book. The future of luxury flying isn’t $15,000 seats that go out empty — it’s business class done really well, and Delta knows it.
The tv screens are huge and there are in fact two, one on each side. Which other airline has two screens? There is a lot of elbow room between the seat and curtain as Ben explained. Let us know once you’ve flown it lol ie never
AF makes a lot of revenue in F otherwise they wouldn’t have invested in it, including adding it to a further 10 aircraft.
And please, don’t compare with American carriers. Delta is offering burgers in delta one as a gourmet experience lol DL and AF maybe partners but the reality is night and day.
NW, an interesting missive in support for the Delta product, however, one overlooked the fact that Delta’s understanding of the “Premium traveler”, has not elevated the airline into the top twenty of world class airlines.
I get that Air France is expanding La Première to 10 aircraft, but let’s be honest — Delta is expanding something far more important: profits.
I’ve looked at the numbers. In 2023, Delta made $4.6 billion in net income with an operating margin of over 11%. Air France-KLM? Barely cleared €934 million, and that’s with a ton of government support and a much lower operating margin. I don’t need to be an economist to see which airline actually knows how to run a business. Delta doesn’t need to chase prestige — it builds premium products people actually book and pay for, and the results speak for themselves.
And yeah, I’ve had the “burger” in Delta One. It was delicious, by the way — served with wine selected by a Master Sommelier and part of a menu designed by real chefs. I honestly think it’s smarter to offer elevated comfort food than throw foie gras at someone just to justify a $15,000 ticket. Delta just gets how the world works now: luxury needs to be scalable, not performative.
If La Première were the future, Delta would be all over it. But they’ve done the math — and I trust the airline making billions more doing what actually works.
While sleeping. Also, I imagine a lot of people in LP have multiple devices. For long hauls, nice for earbud cases as well. Not a difference maker at all, but used.
@ Ben, thank you, that fulfilled my curiosity. It looks like Air France picked a balanced mix of media representatives. I was already anticipating the French media to be represented as well. I am sure the written press article will become soon public too.
You can be proud that your blog and internet reach is seen as so significant by Air France that you have been among the invited guest !
I greatly prefer wireless charging and don't find it slow, depending on the charger of course. I listen to a lot of podcasts and music on flights, and would certainly leave my phone sitting on the charger.
Did you have anything more regarding air temperature besides no air nozzles because Lufthansa group has temperature touch seat control in their new first class soon to be on SWISS a350 also ?
It's nice and all, but still not nice enough to me for $12,000 - $20,000. I'll wait till economies crash and price falls to $3K-$5K RT for IAD-CDG or JFK-CDG.
I love you did this trip, and I really don't understand the criticism. It's fully disclosed. Yes, I made a critical comment on the subsequent piece on Ben Smith, but how can anyone have a problem with this.
It's fantastic reporting, and we got it live. Pipe down.
@Throwawayname - I'm FB Platinum and will sometimes book a P award if I feel like treating myself, but the consensus is that there is no availability at all on AF1/AF4 (the flights with the new suite). Ben alluded that this wasn't going to change, so I was just curious to know if he was able to share more insights on what he learned on that front.
Justin, how many pockets are there going to be in your shroud?
As I know of no way to take my meagre savings with me when my number comes up …. I for one intend to spend what cash I have before I go.
I’m sure that there will be no pockets in my shroud.
These are not new airframes, so AF aren’t spending to upgrade the air supply too.
Absolutely Gerty, I had a great day following Ben’s progress across the pond.
Thanks to him and others who asked interesting questions, I learned so much about the AF La Premiere product today, thank you all.
Thanks Ben. The new cocktails are really good. The service so far is great. This morning I was the only one, but now, it’s a full cabin.
Good stuff, looks like a great product. Sadly, I won't ever be flying it unless I get a terminal diagnosis 😀
Were the only media passengers onboard from US-based outlets? I saw that Nicky Kelvin was onboard (I count him as US-based since he’s with TPG).
Really cool that you were selected for this and it speaks volumes to you and the blog. Amazing to see how far it's all come after all these years of reading. Now your email the other day makes a lot more sense 🙂 . So awesome to follow and thanks for sharing all of the details and thoughts!
It's also helpful if you're using wired headphones with the newer Apple devices, which attach to the same port as the charging cable.
A new Airfrance F seat takes the same space as about 7.5 economy seats.
A return CDG-LAX retails for 22-25kUSD and is sold out for about 50% of the days in the next month and only a minority of days have "saver" ticket fares at 22k meaning inventory is low on most flights that are not full.
An economy fare on the same dates retails for 1.4kUSD. Airfrance commends 138% more revenue per sq. meter in First than economy. So even if the load factor is lower than in economy it's probably still generating more cash than a Y seat.
You want to talk about J ? Well a F seat takes about the same space as 2.6 J seats. So that corresponds to 9.6k per J seat which retail at 6.9k, so F retails a 40% premium per sq meter. The question is how good they are with the cost management end, especially food and wine inventory. But making the argument that they are losing money is wrong. They have right sized the cabin and designed the product to make it work. Something that US airlines could not.
Also 100% of F TATL revenu goes to AF pocket as they offer 100% of the capacity so they benefit from the Delta miles and connectivity in the US but have little to pay back to Delta. So I'd say F is especially lucrative to AF considering their JV partners does not offer any capacity to justify collecting some of that revenue.
The drop in capacity of worldwide F illustrates the failure of a certain business model that sees F as an ultimate reward for loyal customers, this model was spearheaded by US airlines. No one in their right mind would have paid cash for such a mediocre product and it showed in balance sheets. AF used to lose money on First as well in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Since then they have understood that there is a market segment way above business class that is not always well served by business jets. This market values exclusivity, privacy and good service. This translates in high fares, low capacity and low access through miles. Miles users are not the core customer anymore.
Delta does not have the capacity to make F work for them. They make J work for them thanks to credit cards and fortress hub but they are out of the market for F. It's not a huge market segment so it's not a big issue.
Also I think it's a bit limiting to compare earnings of an airlines with 1000 planes to that of an airline with 4x less planes that operate in a different market.
If Air France were to scrap La Premiere, its customers aren't gonna switch to Delta of all airlines lmfao. They'll fly private.
I'm still laughing
Ok - I’m confused. I genuinely don’t understand why you fanboy to such an extent over La Premiere? From NYC, LAX and SFO the departure experience is awful. In LAX there isn’t even an expedited lane through security. The lounges (as of last year) at all of those locations are average at best and at SFO you’re dumped in the Emirates lounge. On board the old La Premiere was absolutely at the end of its rope. Several planes had duct tape on the sides of the storage and the fabric was worn and pilled. The seats are fine but there isn’t the width or comfort to compare to so many other products -CX, JAL, even the newer BA. The wine program is frankly laughable - this is France we’re talking about!!! They don’t offer a truly coup de coeur champagne and have no rose on regular flights and the catering is decent from Paris but again mediocre from every other out station. La Premiere is such a peculiar halo product - it had the name and the price tag to appear rarefied. And
in Paris for departures or transit a very reasonable experience but everywhere else it is a hairsbreadth away from all the other - and frankly, aside from a smaller cabin with one toilet and sometimes one attendant, worse than several business class products - Qatar always has a rose champagne in business and Emirates with its assembly line product often has a better meal.
I would really ask you to reflect if you could book La Premiere on the odd day for 100,000 Aeroplan miles and fly it ten times a year or if a return ticket to Copenhagen was $10,000 would it feel quite so special? I think the product is fine, but the ne plus ultra? No. Not at all.
Andrew
I disagree with the notion of some comments here that first class has no place in the commercial airline world due to the increasing standards of business class.
My take on this is that business class is going to displace weak first class products (rightfully), while it is going to evolve as a more tailored and targeted niche product for those seeking a distinguished premium experience. The emphasis here is on the experience as, indeed, travelers who seek a cost effective way of arriving in a decent seat and relaxed are going for business class, which will remain the sweet spot also in terms of revenue.
So for first class, this means that only the strong will survive, and with this trend, I also expect the products to become more expensive and more exclusive. Air France perfectly caters to this development and I think they'll be very successful with it.
I remain, from the pictures, of the same opinion I wrote a while ago here
The bed is narrower at the shoulders and maybe even a few cm shorter than the old one
Also the chair seems to be somewhat
misaligned with the dining table. Its obviously very pretty and the 5 Windows are quite a plus, but the SQ a380 product would seem still far superior IMHO, and the many options for seating would cause rather confusion than confort to the occasional flyer and would be close to pointless on a flight shorter than 11-12 hrs unless one has to deal with restless legs
The curtain on the middle seat shoulder might not feel bothersome but indeed makes the seat took cramped, with the vicinity to the other customer upon takeoff and landing remindful more of an old BA product than of any new P products.
Looking forwards to trying it soon, tho, as the above remarks are just points, its always a treat to fly P
This comment perfectly encapsulates the difference between the cultures of the US and Europe. US - pile em high, please the investors. Europe - it‘s not all about the profit margin, it is also about the experience of the paying customer. I, for one, think there is room for both (as shown by the fact that both strategies are being successful, and maybe AF shareholders are not so obsessed with quick returns on investment). Clearly the seats don‘t go out empty, and the people running AF aren‘t novices - if it was dragging them down, they wouldn’t do it!
I expect the print Journalist to be from Lefigaro? They usually review all air france changes right away. The TV journalist that cancelled was probably Tf1 ?
Etihad The Residence and some suites in SQ A380 first class have two screens. The screen size is also smaller than that of JAL and ANA first class suites (43 inches). This new La Première is nowhere close to a disappointing product and have almost reached the perfection but his claims actually have some valid points.
Like you lasdiner, we like the SQ suites too.
Like you we have not experienced the La Premiere product.
When flying East from LHR our options are most reasonable, however, turning West less so, unless we spend extra time and expense travelling to another hub.
Since being made aware of the New La Premiere suite, we are now looking forward to our next trip East. When rolled out on the SIN route we will book a window an adjacent centre suite too.
Hopefully it will be worth the additional expense, time and inconvenience travelling via Paris.
One will be happy to agree or disagree with you Andrew, once we have experienced it for ourselves. Wait out for a really objective opinion.
I have flown both SQ suites and LP. LP is prettier and soft service, on the ground particularly , is better. I find the SQ cabin and bed much more comfortable. Their bedding is a marvel.
Looks both elegant and simple. Love the color palette. Love the curtains and many windows. This product looks very relaxing, almost soothing. Thanks for the review.
@Ben you eat dogs?
“ It’s like asking me to rank pizza, ice cream, or dogs. I love them all… how am I supposed to choose?!”
Great review and I believe due to the excitement you forgot to mention if these new curtains facing the aisles have noise reduction feature like the old ones, because they were amazing.
Still cant beat Etihad and Singapore. The food looks disappointing. For the price that caviar should be a full tin with all the accompanying items.
The soft product still false short.
First off, kudos!!! I've been reading your blog for over 10 years now and I've always found your reviews spot on so I'm glad you're able to give the AFKL CEO honest feedback!!! Hopefully they'll open up award space for the new La Premiere for us AF Platinums.
Tried both, like both and will try AF to SIN for comparison when the New La Premiere rolls out on that route.
This is awesome Ben. Once again, congrats for achieving such a fantastic level of credibility and recognition.
When you said "pizza, ice cream, or dogs" , for a second I thought you ate dogs lol.
Ben, I really respect how honest you always are. I saw TPG talk about you being on the flight on Instagram and I knew you didn't typically accept invites, so I wondered. Kudos to you for the disclosure and for keeping it real. This is what sets you apart from the rest--your honesty. Thanks and glad you had such a great trip.
@ Mike -- Then see my full review, which has a lot more details:
https://onemileatatime.com/reviews/air-france-la-premiere-first-class-suite-777/
If the caviar is the biggest complaint, then the product is still competitive. Flew on the new LP a few times now, and it knocks "old" LP out of the park.
ARGH! This was supposed to go on the latest LP thread this month, apologies, please feel free to delete this and the one above.