We know that Delta has big growth plans at Los Angeles Airport (LAX), as the airline sees a “once in a generation” opportunity to dominate an airport that has historically seen traffic fairly evenly split between the “big three” carriers.
Well, Delta has just revealed its latest route addition out of the airport, which is service to Newark (EWR). That might not sound that strange on the surface, though competitively the airline will be at a major disadvantage, and I’m trying to figure out exactly what type of consumer this flight is targeting.
In this post:
Delta launches LAX to EWR route as of April 2027
As of April 12, 2027, Delta intends to launch twice daily flights between Los Angeles and Newark. The 2,453-mile flight will operate with the following schedule:
DL732 Los Angeles to Newark departing 7:40AM arriving 4:15PM
DL980 Los Angeles to Newark departing 9:25PM arriving 6:00AM (+1 day)
DL833 Newark to Los Angeles departing 7:30AM arriving 11:05AM
DL2447 Newark to Los Angeles departing 5:25PM arriving 9:00PM
Both daily flights will be operated by “standard” domestic Airbus A321neos, featuring 194 seats, including 20 first class seats and 174 economy class seats.
Here’s how Scott Santoro, Delta’s VP of Los Angeles and West Coast sales, describes this:
“Los Angeles plays a central role in Delta’s network, and this new nonstop service to Newark reflects our commitment to connecting customers across key business markets. By offering twice-daily flights on our Airbus A321neo, we’re delivering more choice, comfort, and reliable connectivity between the East and West Coasts.”
When it comes to competition in this market, this is one that United dominates, with 10 daily flights, mostly with wide body aircraft featuring Polaris business class seats. Interestingly, United’s partner, JetBlue, will shortly be cutting this route, so the only other competitor is Alaska, which operates up to three daily flights.
Let me also emphasize that it complements service from LAX to New York Kennedy (JFK), a market in which Delta operates up to 11 daily flights.
Delta is really trying to build out its LAX hub!
It goes without saying that Delta is at a massive competitive disadvantage flying between LAX and EWR, in terms of frequencies and onboard product. Delta generally performs best financially in markets where it dominates, to or from a fortress hub (as do most US carriers, for that matter).
The market between LAX and EWR is the third highest revenue domestic market in the country, and that’s overwhelmingly thanks to United’s presence there. United dominates Newark.
It’s pretty clear that this route is a lot more about traffic originating at LAX rather than traffic originating at EWR, given what a loyal following United has at the latter airport. Still, the potential demand for this strikes me as rather thin. This is just going after Delta loyalists who insist on flying to EWR over JFK, and who don’t care about product or schedule? Oh, and it’s not even going after those who frequently fly between LAX and EWR, because presumably they’d be loyal to United, since they’d value the product and schedule?
I get the concept of Delta trying to build out a schedule from LAX, though I think the toughest part here on the premium front is that Delta isn’t even flying a plane with flat beds. That’s also why I find this route to be even more questionable than Delta’s new route to Chicago (ORD), because at least there you don’t have a single dominant airline, and it’s not like competitors typically offer a premium flat bed product.
Admittedly the networks of all airlines include a combination of money making routes and money losing routes, with the latter often being part of some larger strategic initiatives. It does seem to me like Delta is currently engaged in quite a few “growth” initiatives that will have questionable results, ranging from its new Austin (AUS) focus city, to whatever you call the situation in Seattle (SEA), to now building up LAX, including a route to Hong Kong (HKG), which is certainly hemorrhaging money.
Bottom line
As of April 2027, Delta plans to start flying between Los Angeles and Newark twice daily, using Airbus A321neos. This is part of the carrier’s initiative to grow its presence at LAX, and become the dominant airline there.
This route might not sound that strange, but Delta is going up against one of United’s strongest routes, with 10 daily flights operated by wide body planes. So two daily flights operated by standard domestic aircraft doesn’t seem like it’s going to steal much market share.
I get the concept of wanting to build out a network, but there’s a very narrow set of circumstances under which anyone not simply looking for the cheapest fare would select Delta in a market like this. And with a block time of over 6.5 hours westbound, this isn’t exactly a cheap flight to operate.
This LAX growth just strikes me as a massive money pit, and it’s not clear to me how Delta will turn this into some big money marker.
What do you make of Delta’s new LAX to Newark route?
Dunn posts:
“This has been a rough week for the pro-UA and the anti-DL and anti-TD fans”.
I respond by reminding him that it has been a rough week for him as a “pro-DL” and “anti-UA fan”.
Dunn, you are without any shadow of a doubt, the most ignorant, most unchristian creature who pervades this website. Very little of what you post is anything like remotely relevant to the subject matter. When asked to supply...
Dunn posts:
“This has been a rough week for the pro-UA and the anti-DL and anti-TD fans”.
I respond by reminding him that it has been a rough week for him as a “pro-DL” and “anti-UA fan”.
Dunn, you are without any shadow of a doubt, the most ignorant, most unchristian creature who pervades this website. Very little of what you post is anything like remotely relevant to the subject matter. When asked to supply clarification or independent confirmation of your wild claims. You rudely ignore your inquisitors.
I put it to you that you are nothing but a tired old rambling fraud. An ex-DL nobody, who was once the onetime Mayor of a nothing town in a U.S. backwater. Dunn, you call yourself a Christian and yet you are incapable of carrying out the most basic of Christian practices by telling the truth.
You insult every reader of this blog with your holier than thou opinions and attitudes. Yet today you will shuffle off to your place of worship to ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness of your acts of omission and apparent contempt for others will not be rewarded on any of your holy days.
this has been a rough week for the pro-UA and the anti-DL and anti-TD fans - and they are not necessarily all the same.
DL moved quickly to confirm its intentions to significantly grow LAX first with EWR flights and now Jon says IAD and PHL are next.
DL is not one to talk up what it intends to do until it is ready to do it. I have said for quite some time that...
this has been a rough week for the pro-UA and the anti-DL and anti-TD fans - and they are not necessarily all the same.
DL moved quickly to confirm its intentions to significantly grow LAX first with EWR flights and now Jon says IAD and PHL are next.
DL is not one to talk up what it intends to do until it is ready to do it. I have said for quite some time that the greatest opportunity for any carrier at LAX is to fly to all the other carrier hubs that are served from LAX since no carrier does that very well.
DL appears set to take on all of the AA and UA hubs in fairly short order just as it also expands international service from LAX. MNL is certain to be announced soon with SIN not far down the road.
these are great days for DL fans but days and nights of great mourning for most of the rest of the internet fan base.
and the best part is that I have said for years that this day would be coming.
Yes, it is tough week. As clearly passengers in large numbers will prefer a standard US domestic first class service over the Polaris services offered by United.
But I guess cheap Y tickets with complimentary upgrades will move people from Delta's prime flights to JFK.
DL is realizing that service to their own hubs is good because they dominate them, but the real demand is to UA and AA hubs. So they’re adding service there, figuring service with a substandard product is better than no service at all.
They will find the same results as they found when they tried to compete against AS in SEA or WN in AUS.
Fortunately they have credit card revenue and fortress hubs to subsidize the routes where they have to compete.
Since this is a non-DL One route, one can expect a single tray meal with a beverage. Pathetic.
kinda like the UA service on LAX to ATL.
oh, wait, UA doesn't fly to ATL
or DTW
or MSP
or SLC
IOW, UA doesn't really compete much to DL hubs.
and yet DL appears set to serve every UA hub - fewer of them than DL hubs - and apparenly all AA hubs except CLT - and that is certain to be coming.
The 321neo with no-lie-flat is pretty lame. Wish they’d’ve managed the seat situation better for XLR at least and were using actual lie-flat. I mean, put the 752 with 2-2 lie-flat at least. C’mon.
if only DL was smart enough to order the XLR ;)
thankfully you have no real job in the airline industry.
no airline needs XLRs to fly from LAX to anywhere in the US
Gary quotes Jon as saying LAX-IAD and PHL are up next.
this is really getting fun.
DL was dead serious about taking LAX by storm. I said this day would come - it is just coming much faster than I expected.
Anyone that thought that DL's network team would become lethargic after Glen left is surely being proven wrong.
Get a life, Full Delta Kit Wanker
Why don’t they beef up their LAX/DFW service? Two flights a day on a baby bus? They can’t really be afraid of American can they?
Short on planes. This will be interesting to see if these iffy routes are the best use of DL's limited lift. What would Glen do?
Maybe the network team isn’t lethargic, but they might be making poor decisions that wouldn’t have been made under Glen.
There’s probably a reason Glen didn’t enter this premium market with a non-competitive plane, especially this premium market DL has already tried and failed at in the past.
This same network team probably will try IAD and PHL, only to meet similar results as they’ll see on their EWR flights, especially as UA...
Maybe the network team isn’t lethargic, but they might be making poor decisions that wouldn’t have been made under Glen.
There’s probably a reason Glen didn’t enter this premium market with a non-competitive plane, especially this premium market DL has already tried and failed at in the past.
This same network team probably will try IAD and PHL, only to meet similar results as they’ll see on their EWR flights, especially as UA deploys their 50 Coastliners on transcons around the country.
"Gary quotes Jon as saying LAX-IAD and PHL are up next."
lol. only you would think this is a good thing that could possibly make money lol. you're such an idiot, sTD...
If anything, this proves how stupid DL post Glen since the gain for delta is negligible, at best. One would think someone like Glen would realize how these would only lose money -- but again, reinforces everyone else's point that Delta is...
"Gary quotes Jon as saying LAX-IAD and PHL are up next."
lol. only you would think this is a good thing that could possibly make money lol. you're such an idiot, sTD...
If anything, this proves how stupid DL post Glen since the gain for delta is negligible, at best. One would think someone like Glen would realize how these would only lose money -- but again, reinforces everyone else's point that Delta is just throwing darts at the board hoping for what sticks.
Which... if you look at AUS drops/Adds, is basically Delta right now. They don't seem to have any forecasting capability.
iow, max,
you can't stand that DL is doing exactly what I said they would do.
and UA and AA are being left in the dust.
tell us how many DL hubs AA and UA serve from LAX.
see above if you need help.
That’s because the AA and UA hubs are in the cities with the most demand. That’s why DL is trying to make inroads there.
SLC, MSP, DTW? Not so much.
sTD hit 60+ paragraphs before noon today defending non-flat A321NEO service on LAX-EWR.
Though it seems he's given up trying to find the United 737-900ER mysteriously flying LAX-EWR on flightaware
When people bring up mental illness and obsession with weird things -- there's your poster child
The Timcel is entirely predictable. Same talking points ad nauseum. SAD INDIVIDUAL!
The only mental illness is from somebody who counts what somebody else posts.
Let’s be clear that Max and the other mental midgets here can’t stand to admit that I really do understand the airline industry and I said exactly this would happen just as I said Delta would expand Los Angeles to Asia. Both happened far faster than I expected. Unable to counter that reality these people resort to personal attacks.
"that I really do understand the airline industry "
lol
except that your standard in the industry, Delta, fired you. Your old Delta coworkers made sure everyone else knew Delta fired you and EVERYONE else thinks you're an idiot and you make so little money that you spend your money on the comment section defending the company that fired you...
It's sad and pathetic... but also sTD.
But again, as ever, feel...
"that I really do understand the airline industry "
lol
except that your standard in the industry, Delta, fired you. Your old Delta coworkers made sure everyone else knew Delta fired you and EVERYONE else thinks you're an idiot and you make so little money that you spend your money on the comment section defending the company that fired you...
It's sad and pathetic... but also sTD.
But again, as ever, feel free to ID a single thing where I'm not using data -- literally anything.
Ben, HOW DARE YOU even suggest that DL's LAX-HKG route is not only not profitable, but "hemorrhaging" money! BLASPHEMY.
Don't you know that it is not only profitable, but likely on track shortly to be the most profitable LAX-HKG route, that DL probably makes more money on ONE daily frequency than CX and UA do on their combined 5 daily frequencies, and that most likely within 6 months, not only will both CX and UA...
Ben, HOW DARE YOU even suggest that DL's LAX-HKG route is not only not profitable, but "hemorrhaging" money! BLASPHEMY.
Don't you know that it is not only profitable, but likely on track shortly to be the most profitable LAX-HKG route, that DL probably makes more money on ONE daily frequency than CX and UA do on their combined 5 daily frequencies, and that most likely within 6 months, not only will both CX and UA exit the market because DL has embarrassed them so badly, but their CEO's will issue a combined statement saying "we beg DL to have mercy on our customers and replace our frequencies, because we realize that our customers will be better served by Delta than they ever could be by us," that they will be so overcome with shame that they will have no choice but to commit seppuku with Delta One Alessi cutlery, and that no less than the Chinese Communist Party will shutter Cathay Pacific AND Air China, hand over all assets to Delta, and insist that DL become the flagship carrier of the People's Republic?
I mean...pull your head our of your @$$, @Ben. /s
Absolutely nobody will voluntarily choose Cathay Pacific over Delta. Hong Kong's flagship airline will no doubt be haemorrhaging money in no time. I mean why would anyone want to spend time in the Pier Lounge and then subject themselves to the in-flight service they offer? I resent it every single time I fly from Australia to the US via Hong Kong rather than take a non-stop flight. /s/
I don’t think this is that horrible of an idea if their goal is to serve LAX. EWR is itself a destination with different demand from JFK. It’s the same logic why airlines would also fly to BUR even if LAX is their hub.
Will Delta make money on the route? Who knows! There’s a pretty good chance that they won’t - but that’s probably still worthwhile in Delta’s mind because it will help...
I don’t think this is that horrible of an idea if their goal is to serve LAX. EWR is itself a destination with different demand from JFK. It’s the same logic why airlines would also fly to BUR even if LAX is their hub.
Will Delta make money on the route? Who knows! There’s a pretty good chance that they won’t - but that’s probably still worthwhile in Delta’s mind because it will help build their competitive posture at LAX and grow loyalty there overall.
If anything I’d have recommended to Delta that they put lie-flats on the route and go in with 4x daily instead of 2x
and your second paragraph gets to the same point about how DL has approached its strategic growth for years.
AA has yet to make even its core hubs profitable on a consistent basis; they have little margin for developmental flying.
UA thinks that adding the 145 new international destination that is unique to UA will move the needle even while it is 4th in the US -which is where the majority of the US carriers...
and your second paragraph gets to the same point about how DL has approached its strategic growth for years.
AA has yet to make even its core hubs profitable on a consistent basis; they have little margin for developmental flying.
UA thinks that adding the 145 new international destination that is unique to UA will move the needle even while it is 4th in the US -which is where the majority of the US carriers get their revenue and profits.
DL has slowly and methodically added domestic markets in key competitor hubs and done so more than any other airline.
DL clearly invests in strategic markets where it competitively matters - and has a proven track record of growing its network where others have not and cannot
Now this is a very serious question which I asked in response to one of your posts below Mr Dunn, however, it has probably been overlooked by now.
Why do you appear to hate UA so much, when it was DL who it is reported to have sacked you? Normally, the love hate relationship would not favour the offending party.
To be clear Tim I also think Delta is way over-invested in Seattle - you can only sustain strategic losses if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. So that’s different than strategic losses in LAX. If the entire hub is in the dumpster (like DL in SEA) then you should pull the plug
But you’re right, this new LAX flying (HKG, ORD, EWR) makes a ton of sense for them to grow LAX
Seattle is clearly not a drag on Delta’s profits or they wouldn’t have made $1.6 billion more than United last year and the gap is going to be wider this year
“If anything I’d have recommended to Delta that they put lie-flats on the route and go in with 4x daily instead of 2x“
2 problems. Not enough aircraft and the ones they bought have 20/44 recliners.
Tim the liar, Delta has 30" seat pitch. Do you make up shit and hope nobody checks?
I legitimately think sTD is a lot like Ed Bastian: Says Delta's "Standard pitch" is 31" minimum but either 1. doesn't actually know that most Delta narrow bodies have 30" already or 2. just doesn't care that he's lying since his most stalwart fanboys like sTD don't want to accept reality.
feel free to let aerolopa know that their data is wrong.
They say that DL's pitch is 31" on the 321NEO but UA's on their 321NEO and also much of their domestic fleet is 30"
Max can protest all he wants but unless he wants to tell us the number of rows of each type of pitch AA, DL and UA has, there are far more aircraft types in the DL fleet that have...
feel free to let aerolopa know that their data is wrong.
They say that DL's pitch is 31" on the 321NEO but UA's on their 321NEO and also much of their domestic fleet is 30"
Max can protest all he wants but unless he wants to tell us the number of rows of each type of pitch AA, DL and UA has, there are far more aircraft types in the DL fleet that have 31 inches of pitch in standard economy than on AA or UA.
and the 321NEO produces a wider seat in coach than on UA's Boeing widebodies or narrowbodies.
amazing how much some people argue and fail to get the basic facts straight
"feel free to let aerolopa know that their data is wrong."
back at ya. Make sure you tell delta.com their data is wrong. what an idiot...
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/overview
"Max can protest all he wants but unless he wants to tell us the number of rows of each type of pitch AA, DL and UA has, there are far more aircraft types in the DL fleet that have 31 inches of pitch in standard economy than on...
"feel free to let aerolopa know that their data is wrong."
back at ya. Make sure you tell delta.com their data is wrong. what an idiot...
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/overview
"Max can protest all he wants but unless he wants to tell us the number of rows of each type of pitch AA, DL and UA has, there are far more aircraft types in the DL fleet that have 31 inches of pitch in standard economy than on AA or UA."
No protest lol. what are you even saying? Delta's own website says 30" isn't their standard economy pitch and I need to prove something? lol. you are amusing. I'll give you that. yet another Tim dogmatic statement then telling everyone else to prove him right when he's already been proven wrong lol
*Delta's own website says 30" is their standard economy pitch
#correction
Timcel lives and breathes Alternative Facts
Delta will make 10 times the money any other airline will ever make now or in the distant future on this route!
New York to LA is considered a premium route. Presumably the US3 want to meet that premium demand. Sure, DL can fill a plane full of cheap coach tickets and lose it's shirt in the process. Possibly in bigger scheme of things DL is willing to do just that.
George,
most corporate contracts do not cover premium cabins for domestic travel. DL is the largest airline for corporate travel.
UA's own schedule in BOS-SFO proves that the notion that you have to offer premium cabins is false; B6 has Mint but UA uses domestic configured aircraft as does DL.
EWR-LAX and much of EWR has seen a revolving door of low cost and ultra low cost carriers trying to compete against UA...
George,
most corporate contracts do not cover premium cabins for domestic travel. DL is the largest airline for corporate travel.
UA's own schedule in BOS-SFO proves that the notion that you have to offer premium cabins is false; B6 has Mint but UA uses domestic configured aircraft as does DL.
EWR-LAX and much of EWR has seen a revolving door of low cost and ultra low cost carriers trying to compete against UA and most of those carriers have failed.
NK is dead, B6 is cutting EWR and AS is operating just one flight/day - hardly a competitive threat to UA.
DL can easily pick up all of the higher value traffic that B6, AS and NK carried - and even NK carried some higher value coach traffic that DL would take - plus 10% of the plane in corporate traffic and they would do just fine.
and let's remember that this is all about DL's intention that it will remain the largest domestic airline from NYC. DL already flies to all of UA's hubs from LGA except for IAD - which has no local market - and DL already serves all of UA's hubs from JFK. UA flies to all of DL's hubs from EWR but DL is the largest carrier in several of those markets.
DL already has an advantage over UA in the domestic market where this will play out.
UA has failed in the JFK transcons before.
The competitive situation is not any different other than DL is stronger; AA and B6 still compete in those markets which are far more significant.
It is far easier strategically for DL to grow in UA than it is for UA to succeed in JFK or for UA to stop DL's growth over the Pacific.
this is not a high risk addition. It is the result of DL's proven strategies of growing in other carrier strength markets
The only difference is that DL has shifted its competitive focus to the west coast and Asia/Pacific which are UA strength markets.
With DL as large as or pretty close to what it can be right now at BOS, LGA/JFK and SEA, DL's growth in competitive growth markets is shifting to LAX and UA strength markets.
While DL is laser focused on what it will achieve in this next phase of its strategic expansion, UA is still chasing secondary and tertiary international markets that it serves with domestic aircraft while being unable to gain share in competitive secondary and tertiary US domestic markets where AA, DL and WN are not going to give UA an inch.
I have said for years and it is clearly being seen that DL's domestic and international growth strategy would be easier to execute than UA's domestic growth strategy and we are seeing that play out in living color.
"most corporate contracts do not cover premium cabins for domestic travel. DL is the largest airline for corporate travel."
Delta will be very interested to learn that LAX-NYC is a market where premium cabins aren't considered covered by corporate contracts. As usual, you'd do well to learn from your beloved airline before speaking so dogmatically.
The way you trip over yourself saying idiotic things, sTD...
of course transcon flights have different rules.
but MOST corporate contracts do not pay for premium cabin travel for the majority of passengers.
DL will gain corporate contract revenue because DL has focused on growing in key competitive markets.
NYC isn't any different, Max.
If I am wrong, you should be able to show us where UA will "hit back" at DL and succeed as well as tell us how well UA does at...
of course transcon flights have different rules.
but MOST corporate contracts do not pay for premium cabin travel for the majority of passengers.
DL will gain corporate contract revenue because DL has focused on growing in key competitive markets.
NYC isn't any different, Max.
If I am wrong, you should be able to show us where UA will "hit back" at DL and succeed as well as tell us how well UA does at JFK where DL fails at EWR.
We'll wait. put the summer of 2028 on your calendar when the data comes out.
UA is powerless. THAT is dogmatic and that is the truth
"of course transcon flights have different rules."
weird... it's like it's the topic here... and George's initial post about the premium NYC-LAX so your reply is either based on inability to read or just pure ignorance.
Lol didn't even realize he was agreeing with you, Max. And of course when you say yes "transcon flights have different rules" and that is entirely the point...crickets! Abandon the thread and pretend it doesn't even exist.
"If I am wrong, you should be able to show us where UA will "hit back" at DL and succeed as well as tell us how well UA does at JFK where DL fails at EWR."
you really are so stupid. You say something stupid, refuse to just acknowledge it and move on and instead find some obscure way to bring up something unrelated lol
Let’s not forget that Spirit used to run up to 2x Daily EWR LAX for many many years. There is demand in Y, without loyalty. The blogs are obsessed with “premium” these days. Everyday people are flying too :)
Exactly this.
Delta can fill the plane and run a profit by just pricing coach $10 under united
I'm curious to know the pricing. Will Delta first-class from Newark be significantly cheaper than JFK in Delta One?
It had better be, because recliners suck-hard compared to lie-flat, especially for redeyes
Perhaps DL is going after AS on this route, not UA.
This is actually kind of a "win" for Delta elites at least because, in theory, it should be easier to get an upgrade out of Newark than JFK. Also, LGA, JFK and EWR are treated as one airport by Delta for purposes of same-day change and IROPs. Delta partner and Sky Team member SAS flies into Newark. So this creates a potential connection for SAS passengers.
Except the upgrade out of EWR will be to a recliner while the upgrade out of JFK will be to a lie flat seat, like the ones offered on every UA EWR-LAX flight and soon, every departure out of JFK.
Regarding SAS, don’t they already fly to LAX? Anyone willing to book a connection in EWR to DL without a true premium transcon product will be a bargain hunter looking for a cheap fare....
Except the upgrade out of EWR will be to a recliner while the upgrade out of JFK will be to a lie flat seat, like the ones offered on every UA EWR-LAX flight and soon, every departure out of JFK.
Regarding SAS, don’t they already fly to LAX? Anyone willing to book a connection in EWR to DL without a true premium transcon product will be a bargain hunter looking for a cheap fare.
Premium seats and a superior schedule are what make this route so profitable for UA. It’s why so many other airlines (including DL already in the past) have cut or reduced service.
The photo of those seats look soooo uncomfortable and twisted .
you do realize that UA has more seats on its domestic configured A321NEOs than AA or DL and that UA's standard economy cabin pitch is 30 inches compared to 31 for DL?
Maybe one inch makes a significant difference to you, but not to me.
your personal preferences don't matter.
this is one of those issues where clear facts and data provide all the response that is needed.
DL's domestic configured aircraft have space as good as or better than AA or UA aircraft.
is it ALL tight for some people, yes.
but the vast majority of passengers do travel economy, DL makes plenty of money on corporate contracts for economy travel and both Airbus narrowbody families offer more space in economy than Boeing models.
wow... not even 9am and sTD is trying to peddle in lies. No, Tim.
Delta's standard pitch in economy is 30" with a few at 31". There's nothing "standard" about 31" when most of your seats are at 30" and when Delta has the worst of the US3 legroom in Y+ and F on most planes.
DL has a long track record of building hubs in other airline strength markets; they have done it in NYC, BOS, SEA, and is now focused on LAX.
DL's competitive focus for the past 10 years has been AA, B6, NK and WN.
DL has managed to become the largest airline at LAX and has the abililty to add flights using gates that other airlines simply do not have access to.
I said...
DL has a long track record of building hubs in other airline strength markets; they have done it in NYC, BOS, SEA, and is now focused on LAX.
DL's competitive focus for the past 10 years has been AA, B6, NK and WN.
DL has managed to become the largest airline at LAX and has the abililty to add flights using gates that other airlines simply do not have access to.
I said that DL would shift its competitive forcus to UA and the west coast and that is exactly what is going on. This is now the 3rd major UA market from LAX that DL has entered; LAX-HKG and ORD are off to a good start. DL would not have announced EWR if they weren't seeing good results on ORD and HKG.
and the chances are high that DL is shifting corporate traffic which is precisely what they do best; DL carries the most corporate traffic of any US airline.
DL starts most routes with fewer fllghts than the competition. BOS-SFO also has double daily domestic A321NEO flights against far more UA flights on domestic configured aircraft and B6 on Mint. on some routes like ORD-LGA, DL has grown capacity significantly.
Other airline hubs are the greater opportunity for growth from LAX; themarket is fragmented because few airlines have succeeded at getting close to parity with other airlines to their hubs if they even serve them. No other big 3 airline flies to CLT or PHL, AA has a token presence to IAD.
UA has been talking for years about returning to JFK. I have said equally as long that DL would start EWR transcon service if UA returned to JFK. UA does not have slots for JFK service and certainly hasn't published schedules. DL does have access to EWR and is already coordinating w/ the FAA for its EWR-LAX flights.
B6 is leaving EWR-LAX in what is a highly questionable partnership from an antitrust perspective that might very well raise antitrust concerns.
AS has done poorly on the transcons since it took over Virgin America. They only fly EWR-LAX 1x/day now.
DL can succeed in the market just by taking B6 and AS business as well as corporate contract revenue which DL carries far more of from NYC than UA.
Add on that UA is going to see its labor costs increase by up to $1 billion per year and is taking delivery of new aircraft faster than it can generate cash which is adding to its debt and DL has UA in the perfect position to shift its competitive focus to UA and the west coast. And we haven't even considered that UA's domestic growth strategy is stalling out highlighted by their domestic cuts which amount to 7% of flights and 5% of capacity for the 2nd half of the summer.
UA did nothing when DL announced LAX-ORD and HKG. They have very few viable options to challenge DL's west coast domestic and int'l growth.
It will be spectacular fun - full of fireworks - watching the airline and its fans that have loved to trash talk every other airline be slapped into its 4th place in the domestic market by the US' most profitable airline which also happens to fly the most domestic capacity on its own metal.
I do enjoy diving into your posts Walter, I find out something interesting about you every time I do so. Let me start on your LAX muttering.
From this post, I deduce that you are making some plausible strategic arguments. However, the sentence “DL would not have announced EWR if they weren’t seeing good results”, in my opinion this crosses the line from evidence into assumption. It might be a reasonable hypothesis, however, it is...
I do enjoy diving into your posts Walter, I find out something interesting about you every time I do so. Let me start on your LAX muttering.
From this post, I deduce that you are making some plausible strategic arguments. However, the sentence “DL would not have announced EWR if they weren’t seeing good results”, in my opinion this crosses the line from evidence into assumption. It might be a reasonable hypothesis, however, it is not something that you can state as an established fact. That said, you are always welcome to offer up further evidence, yes?
6 out of 10 for effort.
it is assumption.
I have only anecdotal comments that DL is doing well out of the gate on LAX-ORD and HKG. surely there are people that frequent this site that can confirm if DL is carrying full loads on those two routes by visiting the gates at any of the 3 cities involved.
Logic dictates that if DL was getting its backside handed to it, it wouldn't be adding yet a third highly competitive UA...
it is assumption.
I have only anecdotal comments that DL is doing well out of the gate on LAX-ORD and HKG. surely there are people that frequent this site that can confirm if DL is carrying full loads on those two routes by visiting the gates at any of the 3 cities involved.
Logic dictates that if DL was getting its backside handed to it, it wouldn't be adding yet a third highly competitive UA market.
every airline does a certain amount of strategic/developmental flying. Instead of adding routes to Mongolia or Greenland or secondary Spanish destations with narrowbodies, DL uses those same domestic configured aircraft to grow its domestic network in industry competitive and high value markets.
THAT is the strategic difference between DL and UA and it is why DL is the US' largest corporate travel airline and also the largest domestic US airline on its own metal.
DL has committed to growing its presence at LAX which many have claimed is too fragmented for any airline to dominate. Regardless of the definition of "dominate" DL has said it will grow LAX and do so with gate space that others can't access.
other airline hub markets are the biggest opportunity for any airline to close the gap from LAX; this is undoubtedly the first of many other airline hub markets that DL will add.
just weeks into the start of LAX-ORD and HKG, it is clear that DL is locked and loaded on UA's strength markets at LAX.
for all the bravado from UA about other airlines, it is beyond enjoyable to watch DL slap UA up the side of the head and down the other side.
Thank you for that information.
Now this is a very serious question Mr Dunn, why do you appear to hate UA so much, when it was DL who it is reported to have sacked you? Normally, the love hate relationship would not favour the offending party.
14 paragraphs of recycled and mostly untrue material from the moment he wakes up... Tim, you need a life
"DL has a long track record of building hubs in other airline strength markets; they have done it in NYC, BOS, SEA, and is now focused on LAX."
In some places, yes. In other airline strength markets, Delta has been losing share... including across nearly every market across the SE where Delta has been losing share consistently for about a decade.
Poor Tim, Delta Seattle hub failed so now it's second try is LAX.
So for Deltas flight to HKG has failed to make money. Does this upset you?
LAX-HKG is off to a good start? Huh?
The largest at LAX? By a couple of percentage points while not even making the top 10 in cargo carriers there (unlike UA)? Is that good?
And is being large good? Every size metric UA rises to the top of is met by your disdain. But it’s good for DL?
Is it good that UA is expanding its NYC lead, before they even add JFK next year?
Wow so maybe Tiny Tim hallucinated on his FlightAware post - it was EWRLAX but it was an A321 not a B739 flying it!
Chump.
and the complete irony of your butthurt is that DL came for UA"s biggest and highest revenue EWR market and you and others are fixated on aircraft types?
DL did what I said they would - but even moved faster and more boldly than I expected.
UA is in a pile of excrement if DL keeps this stuff going for a couple more years - which they very likely intend to do
I mean... UA-NYC, I think sTD hallucinates on a lot more than just imaginary United 739s flying LAX-EWR ;)
But Tim, you can simply admit when you're wrong vs digging a deeper hole for yourself and looking even more ignorant.
I don't really see anything wrong with this. They know customers who are booking up front are going to fly to JFK to get the Delta One product. Most customers book main cabin though which is perfectly fine on this aircraft type.
most corporate travel doesn't pay for domestic lie flat service anyway.
doesn't mean there is a market for it but DL has succeeded quite well in pulling in corporate travel revenue with domestic configured aircraft.
Let's not forget that the A321 is a far nicer product in coacy than UA's aged 757s which fly half of UA's EWR-LAX flights and nicer than any of AS' flights.
The A321NEO for DL offers AVOD and...
most corporate travel doesn't pay for domestic lie flat service anyway.
doesn't mean there is a market for it but DL has succeeded quite well in pulling in corporate travel revenue with domestic configured aircraft.
Let's not forget that the A321 is a far nicer product in coacy than UA's aged 757s which fly half of UA's EWR-LAX flights and nicer than any of AS' flights.
The A321NEO for DL offers AVOD and a wider seat than on any Boeing narrowbody.
While UA has been starting Mongolia and secondary Spain service w/ domestic configured aircraft on a seasonal basis, DLhas been growing its domestic presence in key industry markets.
The implications for industry leadershp between DL and UA's strategies could not be more clear
"most corporate travel doesn't pay for domestic lie flat service anyway."
lol. on LAX-NYC? yes, Tim. they do. Your ignorance is truly amusing.
Most travelers between NYC and LAX fly coach. United has no advantage over Delta in coach. It’s a great move by Delta to see how loyal their base is. Why not?
Most travelers between any two cities fly coach, right?
One could argue that most travelers between DAL and CSW don't fly coach ;)
just messing with you... it's a JSX route
Most people flying between NYC and LHR fly coach, but that doesn’t mean it’s the profitable segment. The first and business class passengers make or break a flight.
LAX-NYC is no different, setting the DL route up for failure.
Likely these flights are focused more on the LA Basin point of sale, but my sense is Delta won't last on EWR-LAX more than 3 months.
Any of you commenting live in this market?
I'm all Delta, all the time. Mostly from LGA and JFK. But at the moment, JFK is a poop show with construction, roadway changes, terrible traffic, and email warnings from the airlines about how early to be, to take the AirTrain, etc. I didn't really even have a sense of how crazy the destruction was until I took the train to that crazy remote Uber lot...
Any of you commenting live in this market?
I'm all Delta, all the time. Mostly from LGA and JFK. But at the moment, JFK is a poop show with construction, roadway changes, terrible traffic, and email warnings from the airlines about how early to be, to take the AirTrain, etc. I didn't really even have a sense of how crazy the destruction was until I took the train to that crazy remote Uber lot - you can really see from above how much has been destroyed so the rebuilding can happen. Getting to an Uber with luggage after landing on an international flight is punishment.
Then there's the Van Wyck. If you know you know.
I live in Lower Manhattan. On a good day for an early flight out of JFK, it can take 60-75 minutes. But usually more like 90. (I can get to LGA in 15 minutes for an early departure.) I go to LAX a few times a quarter. Last few times, I've actually connected thru ATL because the connection there and the traffic to JFK here make it a wash.
So, EWR. I can get there in 15-20 minutes thru the Holland Tunnel. I'm going to do this flight as soon as I can. Will save me hours in a car.
Maybe not a long-term plan from Ed, but he's got a few years before JFK is done, and I'd bet this flight will be full up front.
It's not a bad, but I'd rather that seat than JFK chaos.
If you find EWR works for you give UA a try and see what you're missing. If you like it they will surely match your DL status.
A certain reader is not going to enjoy this article.
Pretty sure this is just about growing their feed for LAX. 2x daily isn't competitive, probably just timed to connect to their longhaul banks at LAX rather than O&D. O&D business travelers will fly JFK-LAX, which is anyways the better route.
@ yoloswag420 -- That's a good theory, but the timings don't really match up with a 7:40AM and 9:25PM departure from LAX, which seems much more about the local market than connections.
MEL lands at 7:33AM, HKG lands at 8AM, HND lands at 11:05AM, and PVG lands at 3:49PM. The only good connection is SYD, which lands at 6:05AM.
Eh, a 1:35 int/dom connection at LAX is a fool's errand. Maybe if you have global entry and are travelling with carry-on bags only, but for the vast majority of travellers it's simply not doable.
@ PeteAU -- I agree it's challenging, but the airline is selling the connection, and people love itineraries that look like they have a short travel time, even if they end up on a redeye 14 hours later. :p
Seems more targeted against Alaska which traditionally operates flights at those times, although down often to 1x/day since last summer
@ AAflyer -- Though what upside does DL have going after AS? AS is neither strong at EWR nor at LAX, so competitively there's not much to gain, since this is unrelated to their SEA battle.
If J is priced a lot less than D1 to JFK there may be a decent market for this route
@ JustinB -- Perhaps, but then Delta would largely just be cannibalizing its own premium demand to JFK.
I don't think it would cannibalize D1 and I think this is exactly what they'll do. They already sell Premium Select on aircraft equipped with a PE cabin between LAX/JFK, and I think they'll align pricing to that rather than D1, even if it's branded domestic Delta First. This will also set them up to undercut UA's lie flat pricing, although I'm sure they'll get their share of unhappy travelers who select Delta First over...
I don't think it would cannibalize D1 and I think this is exactly what they'll do. They already sell Premium Select on aircraft equipped with a PE cabin between LAX/JFK, and I think they'll align pricing to that rather than D1, even if it's branded domestic Delta First. This will also set them up to undercut UA's lie flat pricing, although I'm sure they'll get their share of unhappy travelers who select Delta First over United Business and unwittingly find themselves in a recliner. This will make for some odd fare comparisons for those not familiar.
Are these going to be on the 20F or 44F configs? I could see a decent market for the 44F configs until they get the lie flats figured out. It is a true premium route and they could come in a really undercut what UA has been commanding for J (albeit a very different product). It's always crazy to me how little difference AS has on the SFO/LAX-JFK routes in J. Heck, even if they...
Are these going to be on the 20F or 44F configs? I could see a decent market for the 44F configs until they get the lie flats figured out. It is a true premium route and they could come in a really undercut what UA has been commanding for J (albeit a very different product). It's always crazy to me how little difference AS has on the SFO/LAX-JFK routes in J. Heck, even if they have to compete against UAs real PE pricing, I could see them regularly selling out a huge chunk of these seats rather than making it an upgrade fest.
@ AdamH -- It shows the 20F configuration. But even the 44F configuration wouldn't actually make the product more premium for those in premium cabins. Also keep in mind that for UA, a large percentage of EWR-LAX tickets are sold as part of larger itineraries, so it's hard for DL to steal too much market share.
No, on Ua ewr-lax, the majority on those flights are local passengers just going ewr-lax. There is connectivity of course, but overall the market is largely local
But sTD tells us on the Thought Follower in Travel's post on this subject that LAX-HKG is going better than expected for Ed and Friends!
@ Jeff -- Well since Tim only cares about data and not speculating, I'd love to see his data on LAX-HKG doing well!
Ben, are you serious?
“Since Tim only cares about data and not speculating” …. surely you cannot be serious Ben. The man is constantly speculating without credibly (checkable) date to support that speculation. He pontificates at any request for actual evidence of credible data and I’m sure that you of all people are fully aware of that fact, yes?
I was assuming he was being sarcastic.
Really Pedro? …. and should should the readers assume that you are simply Ben in a sombrero? …. :-)
Now, I am being sarcastic.
I can't wait for Tim to post some fact other than there we a lot of people sitting at the gate
yeah harebrained and executive-therapy-by-route-map, but hey if it makes ed feel better about UA's ascendency then who's to say if it's good or bad