In recent years, we’ve seen airline pilots in the United States (particularly at the “big three” carriers, as well as at regional carriers) get huge pay increases, and they’re now very well compensated. As you’d expect, not everyone realizes that, though, and sometimes it’s funny to see the reactions that people have to this reality.
In this post:
American captain shares $458K+ compensation on Reddit
A Miami-based American Airlines Boeing 737 captain posted in the r/Salary subreddit, where… people seemingly just share their salaries with little context (the internet is a fascinating place, eh?). The pilot’s total year to date compensation has been $457,894.51, and the hourly pay is $360+ (this only applies to flight hours).
I’ve written in the past about how much airline pilots earn, and how their pay is structured. Generally speaking, pilots can fly up to 1,000 hours per year, so you can multiply their hourly pay by around 1,000, and then it only goes up from there, after adding in things like per diem pay, etc.
This pilot isn’t even maxed out in terms of earning potential. The pilot is at the top of the Boeing 737 captain pay scale (which currently maxes out at around $361 per hour). However:
- American pilots continue to get pay increases through 2027, under their current contract
- This pilot can get even higher pay if they move up to larger aircraft; for example, under the current pay scale, a Boeing 777 captain could earn up to $447 per hour, so that’s roughly 24% higher than the Boeing 737 captain pay
So a wide body captain can easily clear $500K per year. American, Delta, and United, all have virtually identical hourly pay, though they also have profit sharing. Since Delta is by far the most profitable, you can expect that Delta pilots are paid even better, and some very senior Delta captains are probably earning close to $600K, including profit sharing.
As you’d expect, the internet has quite some takes on this
I wasn’t surprised by these numbers, since I was familiar with pilot pay scales. However, understandably a lot of people weren’t expecting this. I think a lot of people have respect for pilots, but wouldn’t assume they’re that well compensated. The responses generally fall into one of two camps:
- “What on earth, they earn in a month what I earn into a year, how can they be paid that much?”
- “They have a lot of responsibility and it takes a lot of time before you get to these pay amounts, so they deserve it”
My opinion is somewhere in the middle. I respect pilots a lot, and ultimately their high pay is due to their very strong unions, plus our 1,500-hour rule for pilots, which greatly limits the pilot pipeline, and gives them a strong negotiating point.
I’m not a huge fan of trying to compare pay between people and assessing who “deserves” what, because all too often it’s not fair. Like, how much should a surgeon make, how much should a pilot make, and how much should a teacher make?
I will say this — I know a lot of management employees at airlines are rather frustrated about the massive pay raises that pilots have received, while they haven’t. At many airlines, your average captain is earning more than your average mid-level executive who is making some major decisions for the airline.
It’s also important to acknowledge that coming out of the pandemic was possibly the best time in history to be a pilot. Airlines were hiring like crazy, airline pilot pay increased massively, and the pathway from first officer to captain was also faster than ever before, due to the number of retirements.
Pilots have to invest quite a bit of time and money into their flight training (if they don’t go the military route, which requires time, but not money), both to get specific licenses and sufficient hours. Then they have to typically work at a regional airline for some amount of time, to build up hours. And then they can get a job at their “forever” airline, and work their way up the ranks there.
There’s no denying that the entire pathway has just been much faster than before in recent years. For example, you have pilots now who maybe spent a year or two at a regional airline, then a job at the legacy, and were then able to bid on a captain position within a year or two (though with limited seniority, and therefore, limited control over their schedule).
Also keep in mind that historically, airlines haven’t really been stable businesses. Pilots get these great contracts, but then in bankruptcy, everything is renegotiated. Of course we now have airline executives who claim their airlines will never be in bankruptcy again, their airlines will never lose money again, etc. I have a different take, but…
Bottom line
An American Airlines pilot shared their total compensation for the year on Reddit, which was around $458K. Unsurprisingly, many people don’t realize how well compensated pilots are nowadays, and this person isn’t even at the top of the pay scale yet.
This kind of pay tends to draw mixed reactions. One thing is for sure — it shows the strength of the pilot unions in the United States, that these kinds of contracts can be negotiated. It also shows the strength of the credit card market in the United States, that these contracts can be paid for. 😉
What do you make of this pilot compensation, and the internet’s response?
Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 captains easily make more than this. They are the highest paid narrow body pilots in the world.
This is why ALPA was so much in the mix to get the 737MAX out ASAP. The MAX provided new levels of economics that would support higher pilot pay in a particular air market.
Consumers don't realize that the breakthroughs in airframes with carbon fiber tubes and high efficiency engines are in part absorbed by the unions to increase their pay. This is why in some cases fares appear to rarely change even though it...
This is why ALPA was so much in the mix to get the 737MAX out ASAP. The MAX provided new levels of economics that would support higher pilot pay in a particular air market.
Consumers don't realize that the breakthroughs in airframes with carbon fiber tubes and high efficiency engines are in part absorbed by the unions to increase their pay. This is why in some cases fares appear to rarely change even though it is cheaper for the airline.
On the flip side, many pilots are also part of an ANG unit. Many of them will step away from their commercial flight work to perform service in the military. I am familiar with ANG pilots who took time off from their airline work and flew with airlifts in and out of Afghanistan.
FWIW: In most companies, posting a pay stub publicly is usually grounds for termination.
since AA and WN were very early customers for the MAX and neither of their pilots are part of ALPA, I'm not sure how your argument works.
Unions did succeeding in pushing for salaries to go up for the two remaining pilots when aircraft went from 3 to 2 pilots, eliminating any economic benefit.
and larger aircraft are almost always more economical per passenger than smaller models so the MAX didn't trailblaze anything in that...
since AA and WN were very early customers for the MAX and neither of their pilots are part of ALPA, I'm not sure how your argument works.
Unions did succeeding in pushing for salaries to go up for the two remaining pilots when aircraft went from 3 to 2 pilots, eliminating any economic benefit.
and larger aircraft are almost always more economical per passenger than smaller models so the MAX didn't trailblaze anything in that regard.
and the MAX has one of the lowest carbon fiber ratios of current production aircraft. Among narrowbodies, the A220 is the highest
Any pilot who chooses to fly the Boeing 737 Max, deserves every penny of his salary. His therapists and life insurance bills must be enormous.
U.S. Military aviators may not take home as much hard cash, but the adrenaline rush beats anything which ‘driving an air taxi’ can serve up.
The only thing that is questionable is why someone would think that it makes any sense to post their actual pay in such detail for the public.
it would be far more informative to see the pay breakdown for a first year AA first officer to see the difference that a decade plus of experience makes.
as for the reason US commercial pilots make so much, unions are part of it but ALPA has also...
The only thing that is questionable is why someone would think that it makes any sense to post their actual pay in such detail for the public.
it would be far more informative to see the pay breakdown for a first year AA first officer to see the difference that a decade plus of experience makes.
as for the reason US commercial pilots make so much, unions are part of it but ALPA has also done a pretty good job of limiting the supply of pilots including by getting the gov't to impose the 1500 hour requirement on as many pilots as possible.
and let's put pilot salaries in the perspective of the emergency autoland feature of a King Air that recently happened.
ALPA will fight tooth and nail but there will be airlines elsewhere in the world that will have single pilot ops - in cargo and long range cruise - and then expand it to other phases of flight and categories.
Airbus and Boeing could convert the A350 and B787 to single pilot ops for part of the flight tomorrow if they got the green light. The end of the 737 and A320 will come when the potential to have single pilot domestic passenger ops.
This could be the last golden era of earnings for pilots.
Frame that picture.
Tim,
Agree on the first statement.
This golden era claim has been made for 40 years. Post 9/11 was certainly not a golden era of earnings, or QOL. Many pilots lost livelihoods, marriages, and a few suicides during this time.
That emergency auto land that Ben and G*ry Leff have latched on to is a last resort, highly “parameterized”, controlled, piece of automation. It’s like saying “See, my car hit the brakes on its own!...
Tim,
Agree on the first statement.
This golden era claim has been made for 40 years. Post 9/11 was certainly not a golden era of earnings, or QOL. Many pilots lost livelihoods, marriages, and a few suicides during this time.
That emergency auto land that Ben and G*ry Leff have latched on to is a last resort, highly “parameterized”, controlled, piece of automation. It’s like saying “See, my car hit the brakes on its own! I don’t need to drive!”. It shows how ignorant travel bloggers are about the piece of machinery they’ve made their livelihoods on criticizing. EASA put an immediate end to their single pilot exploration. Why? Because of safety. No fanfare, no “let’s get some more data”, just an indefinite suspension. I believe it’s because the world is coming up to a crisis of competency, and everyone keeps trying to remove safety barriers for the sole reason of cost.
The insatiable need for corporations to reduce the labor line item cost on a spreadsheet, at the expense of safety, will always continue. I get it. Line must go up. But these bloggers? I don’t know why they support it. I can only assume they say such ignorant things for clicks.
And no, Boeing and Airbus could not convert it tomorrow, or even in a year. There’s an immense amount of reDUNNdancy that goes into aircraft systems, not even including the infrastructure on the ground. Ask the airlines if their insurance would decrease, or astronomically skyrocket, if single pilot ops came tomorrow. As part of my business, I’ll tell you, it’s the latter.
People will yell about Boeing’s poor automation after the Max incidents, and in the literal same breath, ask to remove the human element from the equation. Truly baffling.
feel free to post average US (esp. big 3) pilot total compensation and I would bet that right now is the peak for compensation for airline pilots.
DL led the industry in raising pilot salaries post covid knowing that the supply was limited enough that other airlines had to match and also spread it to non-pilot staff to keep the pilot/non-pilot compensation percentage in balance. AA, UA and WN largely matched with varying degrees of...
feel free to post average US (esp. big 3) pilot total compensation and I would bet that right now is the peak for compensation for airline pilots.
DL led the industry in raising pilot salaries post covid knowing that the supply was limited enough that other airlines had to match and also spread it to non-pilot staff to keep the pilot/non-pilot compensation percentage in balance. AA, UA and WN largely matched with varying degrees of impact to the earnings statements - with UA still not having lifted FA and mechanic salaries. Other LCCs and ULCCs are choking hard on higher labor costs.
As for partial automation of commercial cockpits in order to allow single pilot ops for at least part of the flight, it is going to happen and it is naive to think that computers can't duplicate the thought process and reactions of humans and could potentially do it faster and safer.
ALPA is very powerful in the US but other countries have far less powerful unions and strong economic reasons to push single human pilot ops for at least part of a flight, including in long range cruise where most airlines now have up to 4 pilots watching the plane fly itself.
it is a guarantee that someone will go first and it won't be with fully automated landings but the technology does exist and Airbus and Boeing could start converting their current new generation aircraft to single pilot ops if they got the go ahead.
Taken in a vacuum, yes this looks ridiculous, but consider this. A pilot will spend years gaining the certifications and experience, at great expense, to even be considered for a paying pilot job. Pilots not working for "major" airlines typically make much, much less. By way of comparison, at least when I was working the regionals in 2003, a first officer's earnings on the turboprops were barely above the poverty level, and though there has...
Taken in a vacuum, yes this looks ridiculous, but consider this. A pilot will spend years gaining the certifications and experience, at great expense, to even be considered for a paying pilot job. Pilots not working for "major" airlines typically make much, much less. By way of comparison, at least when I was working the regionals in 2003, a first officer's earnings on the turboprops were barely above the poverty level, and though there has been some modest improvements, green regional pilots are still making Walmart manager wages. It takes pilots years to finally get the call up to the Majors. Remember too, pilots are under strict medical scrutiny, with a long list of maladies that wouldn't slow down the typical person, but can end his career without warning. On top of that, a pilot must retire at age 65. No doubt pilots make great money, consistent with the complications and gravity of their job, but it's important to keep things in context. Piloting a complex machine full of humans in an extremely hostile environment is a very specialized skillset that takes years and money to acquire. I think they've earned it.
You'll get paid more when there is scarcity at your position or when you require specialized training.
Only thing now is, FA's may see this and think they should make a fourth or a third of what pilots make lol.
Basically pilots are paid for production. I saw a report on pilot compensation in the 1920s. Their pay was based on the size and speed of the plane flown. Effectively the more "seat miles"--a term still used by airlines--produced the greater the compensation. It was then up to management to sell those seats.
Lol at anyone who thinks $500k is a good salary.
A freaking data scientist at Pinterest makes $600k. Fully remote job, individual contributor (not management), leetcode easy interview questions. Then the actual job is SQL monkeying. Same thing at DoorDash and Meta and these places don’t even ask leetcode.
The average partner at Skadden makes $6 million and they are constantly being poached by Kirkland with offers of $10 million or more.
$500k was a...
Lol at anyone who thinks $500k is a good salary.
A freaking data scientist at Pinterest makes $600k. Fully remote job, individual contributor (not management), leetcode easy interview questions. Then the actual job is SQL monkeying. Same thing at DoorDash and Meta and these places don’t even ask leetcode.
The average partner at Skadden makes $6 million and they are constantly being poached by Kirkland with offers of $10 million or more.
$500k was a good salary in the 1990s, which is probably when a bunch of us in this comment section were born. It’s still a good salary in the middle of the country, which is probably where a bunch of us aren’t keen on traveling. If you like to live an upper middle class lifestyle in a major coastal metro and travel to places with Fine Hotels and Resorts you need at least $2 million a year.
More nonsense from the Arps in hiding, luv your bragging post darlink …. Xxxx
Yawn….first, your job is boring. Second, most of us have side gigs like real estate development that put us easily into seven figures. Third, you work a lot more than we do and we actually enjoy what we do.
If you think they don't deserve it, go ahead and learn that skill and get the job. With an increase in eligible pilots, salaries will come down. That's part of the reason the salary market is bearing this price.
If they "deserve" it or not, everyone can decide for themselves. What I do find odd is that pay is so much higher compared to other western countries, and that there is so much variance based on the type of aircraft flown. Becoming type rated on aircraft A does not take three times as much/long as aircraft B.
Why does my 777 counterpart make so much more than my 737 self?
This is generally a function of seniority. A new captain at a major airline will not be operating international lines on widebody aircraft in a domicile of your choice.
So a bus driver should be paid a lot more or even a truck driver as they statistically kill more?
Good for them. Pay them $100M for all I care. When they are flying me and my love ones, I want the best.
Getta loada Mr. Moneybags ova’ere!
Compare this to an "average" NFL QB, including starters and back ups, who are making maybe $5 or $10 million per season without the same level of responsibility. One makes a bad decision and they throw a pick 6 interception, the other 100+ people die.
The "average" career length for an NFL quarterback is 4 and a half years.
At the end of each of their careers, the pilot will make close to what the "average" NFL quarterback will make.
I see comments about the cost of pilot training. A Google search will reveal flying schools in Europe charging the equivalent of two months of that guy's salary for the full airline pilot qualification, it really isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things (and presumably there'll also be cheaper options in Mexico, Brazil, Asia etc).
Good luck taking that European certification to the United States. Even if that was true, one does not simply step off the boat with a foreign equivalent of an FAA ATP certificate and climb into the right seat of an American Airlines airplane. He's gotta go through the same process as a U.S. trained pilot.
EASA and FAA have got bilateral validation and conversion processes in place, it sounds like the steps are mostly bureaucratic and don't involve any need for expensive airborne tests etc.
Presumably spending X hundreds of hours flying an A320 in Spain or the UAE is also duly recognised by the US airlines, unless of course they're blocked by dodgy union agreements
I congratulate these pilots. They spend time every year doing recurring training in addition to being on the "road" for days at a time, many working holidays and weekends. The pressure is real. The sacrifice is real. Hats off to these guys. As stated, the airline business has a "rocky" past in terms of layoffs, etc...If I were young, I would seriously consider the profession.
If you think that is overheating then check it this guy Darren Byrd on YouTube.
He breaks down exactly how much he makes on each trip in detail. How many hours x hourly pay, per diem paid, extra paid for international flight, how much is contributed to his 401k, etc.
How he games the pilot scheduling system at American to make the most and work the least.
Given the amount of money they put out for flight training not to mention the time they're well worth the pay. Better than some C level imbecile that spends their day spouting the latest LinkedIn language. Pilots actually do something real.
Although not sure posting one's income on Reddit is a particularly wise move.
Pilots also go into ALOT of debt for flight school, and have NO idea what the environment will be coming out of it...they work for regionals for PENNIES for a LONG time, and then a limited amount make this amount. The COMPANY makes BILLIONS, and we have people fighting over if employees should get paid as much as they were able to negotiate, which ends up being nothing compared to UPPER management. It PROVES the value of unions.
"they work for regionals for PENNIES for a LONG time"
hasn't been true in years now
Expecting remuneration to be rational is like expecting airfares/award redemptions to be rational. So my "take" on this news is... it's a game and this is how they're currently doing. I'm definitely NOT envious.
I think this is one of the reasons why US carriers cannot provide quality service. Middle Eastern and Asian carriers who are considered top-notch pay their pilots less than a half of that. Then, they can invest more on the inflight service.
...Meanwhile in the US, some flight attendants are so underpaid that they are eligible for food stamps. How can they provide "service" when they're not paid any better than at waffle house?
I think this is one of the reasons why US carriers cannot provide quality service. Middle Eastern and Asian carriers who are considered top-notch pay their pilots less than a half of that. Then, they can invest more on the inflight service.
Meanwhile in the US, some flight attendants are so underpaid that they are eligible for food stamps. How can they provide "service" when they're not paid any better than at waffle house?
I don't mean US pilots should be paid like in the East(I know the cost of living is a lot higher in the US), but with this cost structure, I don't know how US carriers can enhance their service without raising the airfare significantly.
This is such a profoundly uneducated take. Youre mad about flight attendants but blame pilots? The reason why quality service doesn’t exist is because this the US. You should know the US folk think service is beneath them.
"...I don't know how US carriers can enhance their service without raising the airfare significantly."
A good starting point is paying senior management salaries that are inline with what their contributions actually are. Drop in the bucket? Sure. But it's a good starting point without having to gouge customers even more (the drip drip drip of fees) and/or paying even less to those who do the yeoman's work (FAs, cust service reps, etc. etc. etc.)....
"...I don't know how US carriers can enhance their service without raising the airfare significantly."
A good starting point is paying senior management salaries that are inline with what their contributions actually are. Drop in the bucket? Sure. But it's a good starting point without having to gouge customers even more (the drip drip drip of fees) and/or paying even less to those who do the yeoman's work (FAs, cust service reps, etc. etc. etc.). There are myriad ways to find money to enhance service; another easy win? Stop the stock buybacks.
There was a regular, recurting ad in the inflight magazines oh so many years ago - it said, "You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate". Pilots are traditionally paid well, and the pilots at American (and Delta and United) have negotiated well.
Also - what you're able to command in pay in ANY profession has never been about "fairness" or "what you deserve". There are two general factors that come...
There was a regular, recurting ad in the inflight magazines oh so many years ago - it said, "You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate". Pilots are traditionally paid well, and the pilots at American (and Delta and United) have negotiated well.
Also - what you're able to command in pay in ANY profession has never been about "fairness" or "what you deserve". There are two general factors that come into play:
1) The more difficult it is to replace you, the higher a salary you can command. As an HR rep, it is harder to find a qualified, experienced pilot and it takes about 3 months of training after hiring once you find one. Southwest received thousands of flight attendant applications in the one hour their window to apply was open, and training is 4 weeks. Ramp workers are trained in 1-2 weeks.
2) You make more $$$ in direct relationship with the amount of money your job produces. Pilots flying 777s can produce close to 500k in revenue for an airline in one flight (300 pax, $1,000 per ticket average, plus cargo). Pilot's equivalent of being a teacher - a flight instructor - produce maybe $300 in revenue per flight. Even thought flight instructors are " rare" and hard to replace, they only make about $30k - $40k per year.
Thanks, this seems like a very reasonable take.
I'd argue it's a similar story with doctors. Long and expensive education is required, therefore there are few doctors relative to demand, therefore individual doctors are well compensated, and those that bring the practice the most revenue get the highest compensation.
The thing is that "what you can negotiate" depends a lot on market conditions. If the US wanted cheaper healthcare and cheaper flights, all it would...
Thanks, this seems like a very reasonable take.
I'd argue it's a similar story with doctors. Long and expensive education is required, therefore there are few doctors relative to demand, therefore individual doctors are well compensated, and those that bring the practice the most revenue get the highest compensation.
The thing is that "what you can negotiate" depends a lot on market conditions. If the US wanted cheaper healthcare and cheaper flights, all it would have to do is invest in more medical schools and flight schools and subsidize doctor and pilot education. And/or, open the door wide to foreign doctors and pilots, rather than throwing up every possible obstacle to prevent them from coming here to work.
This is why I keep to myself. Absolutely no need to share my personal business.
I like hiding under a rock :D
Well, good for that particular pilot, but they are an outlier. Most crews make far less, and the career paths can vary wildly. Thankfully, American and United and other airlines have robust unions fighting for all their members. Delta’s pilots union has been around since 1934! If only their flights attendants, baggage handlers, and maintenance technicians would organize, then, not only could they still enjoy profit-sharing, but also have greater job protections, which is especially...
Well, good for that particular pilot, but they are an outlier. Most crews make far less, and the career paths can vary wildly. Thankfully, American and United and other airlines have robust unions fighting for all their members. Delta’s pilots union has been around since 1934! If only their flights attendants, baggage handlers, and maintenance technicians would organize, then, not only could they still enjoy profit-sharing, but also have greater job protections, which is especially important during economic downturns, mergers, etc.
Where’s @Tim Dunn to tell us otherwise that FA’s should save their dues and get a gaming console or whatever the propaganda line was?
And what does an AA Eagle Pilot make - $25K per year? Your life if in their hands, just like the $500K per year pilots.
@ Randy -- They used to get paid peanuts, but not anymore. Now starting pay for a regional pilot is six figures:
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/envoy_air
Envoy captains? Sure, it's definitely possible. Envoy first officers? Not quite.
Consider also, Envoy is effectively at this point the American Airlines "minor league" team, offering a direct pipeline to American mainline. This is not the case when you're working for, say, Mesa. This also allows Envoy to be quite a bit more selective, so your chances of walking in the door from your CFI gig are slim.
Yes, pay is better then it...
Envoy captains? Sure, it's definitely possible. Envoy first officers? Not quite.
Consider also, Envoy is effectively at this point the American Airlines "minor league" team, offering a direct pipeline to American mainline. This is not the case when you're working for, say, Mesa. This also allows Envoy to be quite a bit more selective, so your chances of walking in the door from your CFI gig are slim.
Yes, pay is better then it was back when I was working the regionals, but the cost of living is damn near double what it was. Increasing regional FO pay was a necessity to keep your pilots from having to take on second or third jobs just to survive, which compromises safety.