Passengers traveling on yesterday’s Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to San Francisco had quite the journey, and they didn’t even make it to their intended destination. I’m piecing together details best I can, so here’s my understanding of what happened (and if I got any details wrong, please let me know)…
In this post:
Cathay Pacific A350 diverts to Oakland
This incident happened on Sunday, February 4, 2024, and involves Cathay Pacific flight CX870 from Hong Kong (HKG) to San Francisco (SFO). The flight was operated by a seven-year-old Airbus A350-900 with the registration code B-LRI.
On this 6,927-mile flight, the jet was supposed to depart at 1:25PM, and land at 9:45AM the same day, after a 12hr20min journey. The flight was entirely routine, until it approached San Francisco. The weather conditions in San Francisco were awful yesterday, with gusty winds that impacted operations at the airport.
As the jet approached San Francisco, it had to enter a holding pattern due to weather at the airport. The plane ended up staying in a holding pattern for quite some time. Eventually the pilots made the decision to divert to Oakland (OAK), presumably because they only had so much fuel left, and conditions weren’t improving. The plane landed there at 10:05AM local time, 20 minutes after its scheduled arrival in San Francisco.
Cathay Pacific A350 then diverts to Los Angeles
Oakland isn’t that far from San Francisco, so in theory you’d think the airline would just let passengers off there, and arrange ground transportation. However, the logistics are more complicated than that:
- Oakland Airport’s immigration facility is only open for select hours (I’m not sure if it was open when the plane landed)
- The logistics of deplaning hundreds of passengers at an airport not normally served by that airline are very complicated
- No matter what, Cathay Pacific needed to reposition its aircraft to San Francisco, prior to operating the return flight to Hong Kong
The decision was made to refuel, keep passengers on the aircraft, and then fly to San Francisco when conditions improved. In the end, the plane spent about four hours on the ground, and at 2:10PM it finally took off, preparing to operate the short 11-mile journey across the bay.
Side note — it sounds to me like Cathay Pacific may have been violating the United States’ tarmac delay rules, unless passengers were given the option to get off the aircraft.
Anyway, as soon as the aircraft took off from Oakland, there was bad news, as San Francisco closed back down due to the weather conditions. So while the pilots circled for a bit, they knew they needed a new plan.
Rather than diverting back to Oakland, at this point the decision was made to divert to Los Angeles (LAX). The plane landed there around 90 minutes after it took off, at 3:40PM. So at this point the flight was around six hours behind schedule, and 337 miles from its intended destination.
It’s not entirely clear why the decision was made to divert to Los Angeles rather than returning to Oakland:
- Had conditions deteriorated in Oakland as well, or was the immigration facility not open?
- Did the airline decide it was just logistically easier to fly everyone to another Cathay Pacific station with frequent service, rather than to an airport the airline doesn’t ordinarily serve? That way the airline would have its own staff to help passengers, and everyone could easily be rebooked on a flight to San Francisco
Cathay Pacific A350 still on ground in Los Angeles
As you’d expect, the intended return flight from San Francisco to Hong Kong, CX879, ended up being canceled. As of the time of this post, the A350 is still on the ground in Los Angeles.
Presumably that partly comes down to pilot rest requirements, as this crew wasn’t in a position to fly this aircraft even further, without some rest period. In recent years, Cathay Pacific has closed its pilot bases in the United States, and this is one of the downsides of not having reserve pilots at an outstation.
It remains to be seen if the airline just eventually flies this plane back to Hong Kong empty, or if it flies it to San Francisco, and then carries passengers from the canceled flights.
The logistics here sure are complicated, since you’re not only dealing with weather, but also with contractual limitations for duty hours. I’m not sure if Cathay Pacific’s pilot contract would even allow pilots to reposition the plane to San Francisco, and then immediately operate an ultra long haul flight from there. Relations between pilots and management at the airline are also not great right now, so I can’t imagine pilots would be looking to do any favors.
Bottom line
A Cathay Pacific Airbus A350 flying from Hong Kong to San Francisco first diverted to Oakland, and then to Los Angeles. This unfortunately comes down to a very bad weather day in San Francisco, though that’s exacerbated by the complexities of airline operations, especially at outstations. I’m curious to see where the Cathay Pacific A350 flies next…
What do you make of this Cathay Pacific double diversion?
It’s not allowed to refuel an aircraft with passengers on board. Cathay would be required to deplane the passengers.
But that diversion warrants a very good reason for CX because of safety reason due to weather. But CX shud have served passengers with their utmoat attention by attending to them by giving food and hotel accomodation rather than be sued for numerous claims
Is this really a surprise?
In the last 3 years airlines have tried to kill their employees by deliberately mandating The Bioweapon Jabs! So now they are short of experienced workers. Then they begin hiring by the DEI Method which means they hire for skin color instead of highest skills needed for the position!
You got trouble.
This is where many Woke companies are at now. When morons take control of companies it never ends well!
Farther. Further. All the result of uneducated Americans. The education system has been faltering for 40 years. You dumb down the population and you end up having the political result that you see today. A bunch of uneducated populace believing everything they see on the internet. Now on to Cathay Pacific. It's not the airline that used to be. I used to fly it regularly to Hong Kong and I have no interest in flying...
Farther. Further. All the result of uneducated Americans. The education system has been faltering for 40 years. You dumb down the population and you end up having the political result that you see today. A bunch of uneducated populace believing everything they see on the internet. Now on to Cathay Pacific. It's not the airline that used to be. I used to fly it regularly to Hong Kong and I have no interest in flying them ever again now that China has its dirty hands on it. Thanks but no thanks China. GET THE F#@K OUT OF HONG KONG. CHINA you are ruining everything in Hong Kong and in China and your own people are realizing it now and they are going to take much more of the BS.
couldn't agree with you more. I'm a HKer myself and totally disgusted with China getting their hands in CX affairs. Really disappointed. I hate that China has ruined not just CX but also HK itself.
CX was looking out for their passengers.
All the innocent looking tourists would get mugged right outside of Oakland.
Matter of time before these thugs upgrade from breaking into F150s into A350s.
Hope you made it to your intended destination safe and sound. Did CX credit the extra mileage to her pax, that’s quite a lot of miles?
Not sure why San Jose Mineta wasn't considered the second time around instead of LAX?
I was on the plane. They made 4 total attempts at SFO, the turbulence was so bad most of the plane was getting sick. 4 hrs on the ground in Oakland with no option to deboard. No food and 1 small cup of water was offered in the beginning. At this point it had been 3 hrs before landing that the food service had happened. So by hr4 on the tarmac we hadn’t had food...
I was on the plane. They made 4 total attempts at SFO, the turbulence was so bad most of the plane was getting sick. 4 hrs on the ground in Oakland with no option to deboard. No food and 1 small cup of water was offered in the beginning. At this point it had been 3 hrs before landing that the food service had happened. So by hr4 on the tarmac we hadn’t had food in 7hrs. They got a new crew and pilots in Oakland but didn’t bring resources with them. Then when we got to LAX we sat 2 more hours at LAX because they weren’t expecting us and had no staff. Still no food offered until I told an attendant that we were all feeling sick as it had been 10hrs since eating and most of us had thrown up multiple times. They gave us 2 cookies and water. In total we sat on the tarmac from 9:57 landing in Oakland to 5:30pm when they finally bussed us into LAX. They told us nothing when let off the plane. We had to find a desk agent to ask. We were given a hotel room. Our luggage was never given to us, still wondering when we’ll get it. We rebooked with Southwest to get home. We were treated like cattle not humans. The plane was full of men, women, children, elderly. No care was given. And no word on compensation
Why Oakland. ? An airport with immigration facilities would be better so passengers could deplane. Portland.Seattle. Las Vegas and Salt Lake City come to mind or why not LAX right off the bat?
There were multiple long haul diversions that day due to winds including JAL, China Eastern both of which went to LAX. And a whole host of domestics - it was up to 25 when I left work at 2pm. And that was before the weather got really bad! I'm a meteorologist and the weather got worse at both SFO & OAK after I left. Prior to 2pm gusts were around 30-40kt at SFO with some...
There were multiple long haul diversions that day due to winds including JAL, China Eastern both of which went to LAX. And a whole host of domestics - it was up to 25 when I left work at 2pm. And that was before the weather got really bad! I'm a meteorologist and the weather got worse at both SFO & OAK after I left. Prior to 2pm gusts were around 30-40kt at SFO with some crosswinds but a lot of low level wind shear (hence missed approaches). Later winds were gusting 40-50kts and there were some peaks over 60kts with microbursts. I'm not surprised they didn't attempted OAK 2nd time around. LAX was a sensible choice for safety. In fact I'm surprised they waited it out in OAK because the forecast was always calling for the weather to deteriorate through the course of the day so it's not like there was ever the expectation of it getting better until well into the late evening or overnight.
Yeah, my dad was on that flight and was wondering why they didn’t just let everyone off at Oakland which was just a short ride away from SFO. Instead they waited there for an eternity and travelled even further from the destination lol.
Was on a Southwest flight yesterday Santa Ana-Sacramento (SNA-SMF). Flight was much slower than is typical as pilots took the long way around weather, and plane was getting tossed all over the place on approach. Lots of clapping when we landed.
I wasn't worried at all but I was curious for anyone with piloting experience: how dangerous/difficult are high wind conditions? My layperson's observation is that most uncontrolled crashes seem to happen in thunderstorms...
Was on a Southwest flight yesterday Santa Ana-Sacramento (SNA-SMF). Flight was much slower than is typical as pilots took the long way around weather, and plane was getting tossed all over the place on approach. Lots of clapping when we landed.
I wasn't worried at all but I was curious for anyone with piloting experience: how dangerous/difficult are high wind conditions? My layperson's observation is that most uncontrolled crashes seem to happen in thunderstorms and low visibility, vs. windy conditions. How easy or difficult is it to manage takeoff and landing when it is gusty?
hello from a fellow sacramentan!
International flights are subject to a four-hour tarmac delay rules, except for safety, security, or ATC-related reasons. since there are no customs at Oakland (security reason), this situation did not breach the US Tarmac Delay Rules and was beyond the airlines' control. It is a smart decision if they diverted to SJC; but again, we were not there so maybe SJC was full of diversions and unable to accept this flight, or maybe SJC is...
International flights are subject to a four-hour tarmac delay rules, except for safety, security, or ATC-related reasons. since there are no customs at Oakland (security reason), this situation did not breach the US Tarmac Delay Rules and was beyond the airlines' control. It is a smart decision if they diverted to SJC; but again, we were not there so maybe SJC was full of diversions and unable to accept this flight, or maybe SJC is not approved in CX Operational Specifications (Airlines must apply for and receive approval for all airports they can operate such as Regular airports, Diversion Airports, Fuel Stop Airports, Provisional Airports). it was a very poor decision if they divert to Oakland the second time; they did made the right decision to divert to LAX where everyone can deplane and it is CX online station where they have their own staff.
There are full time customs staff in Oakland. They receive daily flights from Mexico and South America.
Customs can refuse to clear a non-scheduled international flight (diversion flights) due to staff availability, security, or any reasons. Same with regular scheduled international flights but delay ETA after customs operate hours. I was on a flight that diverted to LAX just to clear customs because flight was late and SEA customs were closed by 9:30pm.
I looked and it didn't seem like they had any international coming at that time so its plausible that they didn't have immigration. There are only 3 destinations that fly to OAK at this time of year and it appears that most of them land at night. I thought the Morelia Volaris flight would have been midday but it actually landed in the evening that day.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VOI200/history/20240205/0025Z/MMMX/KOAK
I once was on a CX flight from JFK-HKG. Pilot got sick, so the flight was delayed 12+ hours as a replacement pilot flew from HKG to JFK. This was while the Vancouver flight base was still open.
Also OAK is open at 2pm, so immigration isn't the reason they didn't deplane at OAK.
OAK is 24 hours, but that doesnt mean immigration is 24 hours. That may indeed be why they didn't deplane... or at least contributed to it.
This is exactly what happened to a flight I was on yesterday February 4, EK215 from Dubai to Los Angeles. It was in a holding pattern around Santa Barbara and resulted in running low on fuel. It seems LAX had VIP traffic with Air Force One departing around that time. The decision was made to divert to Ontario and for the similar reason, no immigration or customs available at that time, we were all on...
This is exactly what happened to a flight I was on yesterday February 4, EK215 from Dubai to Los Angeles. It was in a holding pattern around Santa Barbara and resulted in running low on fuel. It seems LAX had VIP traffic with Air Force One departing around that time. The decision was made to divert to Ontario and for the similar reason, no immigration or customs available at that time, we were all on the plane for over three and a half hours. After getting some fuel, it took off for Los Angeles.
Seems like your captain didn’t want to hold very long. Two loops in a holding pattern and then it was off to Ontario. I’m not sure of the range of the A380 but, if they had room, they should have carried more fuel. It was no secret that really bad weather was heading to LAX and airlines are advised, for flight planning purposes, of VIP movements that might cause a delay. Thirty minutes of holding fuel would have been enough to handle the delay.
The Captain said they had 217 tonnes of fuel at take off but had burned through 211, so they were low.
My point is they might have been able to depart with more fuel. I think fuel capacity is a little over 700,000lbs and they departed with about 479,000lbs so, depending on payload, they might have been able to carried a lot more.
Some spotter posted that Emirates flight taking off from Ontario to LAX on YouTube.
Presume there were many logistics involved, but wonder why SJC wasnt the option?
What a trip literally. Diverting all the way to L.A. is a new one for me. Last March 21st our Air France plane was prepared to land at SFO then unbeknownst to anyone onboard the plane lurched upwards sending everyone around us into panic. We realized there was rain but didn't realize we were in a storm. Then the tail just missing a lightning flash (we were seated in the last seats). Next we realized...
What a trip literally. Diverting all the way to L.A. is a new one for me. Last March 21st our Air France plane was prepared to land at SFO then unbeknownst to anyone onboard the plane lurched upwards sending everyone around us into panic. We realized there was rain but didn't realize we were in a storm. Then the tail just missing a lightning flash (we were seated in the last seats). Next we realized is we were heading downtown when the plane turned around to make another go at landing at SFO. Thankfully we landed ok but even the crew was petrified. The captain never even bothered to share with us what he was doing so that was infuriating. After we landed we learned that SFO closed air traffic pretty much right after we landed. Driving home we saw the after effects of the huge storm.
When you're talking about distance, it's FARTHER, not FURTHER. It's shocking how many people get this wrong!
Could someone just say they were having a medical emergency when on the ground in Oakland to just get off? Have the paramedics haul you off the plane, then just say you were having chest pains but feel much now??
you would be stuck with the ambulance bill.
Not if you are a Veteran!
I suspect Cathay has maintenance service in LAX that they do not have in OAK. still, given the weather situation, risky
I was actually at San Bruno, on the top parking lot of the Tanforan shopping center spotting and caught CX870 coming in from OAK for its final landing attempt. At that time, the winds were so strong I had a very difficult time standing and holding my camera steady. The plane was rocked back and forth and about a mile from touch down, plane powered up for a missed approach. Afterwards, no planes landed for...
I was actually at San Bruno, on the top parking lot of the Tanforan shopping center spotting and caught CX870 coming in from OAK for its final landing attempt. At that time, the winds were so strong I had a very difficult time standing and holding my camera steady. The plane was rocked back and forth and about a mile from touch down, plane powered up for a missed approach. Afterwards, no planes landed for about 30 mins. The tower was reporting microbursts and with a gain or minus of 20 knots. Then the wind changed to 160 and then planes started to land on the 19's.
If you have video, would be cool if can post to youtube. I have a family member on this plane!
Here's the video on my channel. The CX flight is the last 30 secs or so. https://youtu.be/V7kz2loptqw
I was on the flight. I’d love to see this video to know what it looked like on the outside, it was a horrible ride on the inside
Here's the unedited footage. https://youtu.be/L7Y4RddEIt8
Sorry it was so shaky in the beginning. It was incredibly windy on the ground and I had a difficult time keeping steady. This actually was my last shot.
Sorry to hear about your experience on the flight. Quite dismayed to hear that CX dropped the ball on this one.
I live about 10 miles from SFO. Yesterday had gusty winds with periods of really strong gusts. Not surprised so many flights were diverted, I thought people would have to be crazy to land or take off in that weather.
I wonder why they didn’t attempt to go to SJC? I think customs are open there at that time since they have a ZIP NRT flight in that time frame.
Same thing happened to my brother flying JFK-SFO. Diverted to LAX, they just sat on the plane for a few hours. Finally took off again but diverted again to SLC. There they got off and he was able to go to the lounge to eat. They finally got to SFO ~28 hours later.
This begs the question - why are domestic trans-con flights not catered in economy. The passengers didn't have a real meal...
Same thing happened to my brother flying JFK-SFO. Diverted to LAX, they just sat on the plane for a few hours. Finally took off again but diverted again to SLC. There they got off and he was able to go to the lounge to eat. They finally got to SFO ~28 hours later.
This begs the question - why are domestic trans-con flights not catered in economy. The passengers didn't have a real meal the entire time until they got off the plane in SLC, ~10+ hours... It's essentially the same length as a JFK-LHR flight (maybe even shorter with tail winds), yet those are obviously fully catered. My brother was offered a $25 transportation credit OR 2,500 miles. He pushed back on how ridiculous that was and was told their guidelines permitted up to $75.
Weather diversion so why expect any form of compensation ? They offer a gesture and then it’s not enough. Better not to offer anything
He fully understands it's weather related and he wasn't entitled to anything like they would in a random delay or what have you. But at the very least, how can people not be given meal vouchers or similar for their time at SLC. They were there for 7 hours (after the long delay at LAX where they didn't deplane), and why only given a "transportation" credit?
Again, my bigger issue and question is why...
He fully understands it's weather related and he wasn't entitled to anything like they would in a random delay or what have you. But at the very least, how can people not be given meal vouchers or similar for their time at SLC. They were there for 7 hours (after the long delay at LAX where they didn't deplane), and why only given a "transportation" credit?
Again, my bigger issue and question is why economy isn't given a real meal on trans-con flights. A pack of peanuts or crackers is not sufficient for a ~6 hour flight.
This is why I take matters into my own hands and bring limited food.
It seems it was a bad day all around in SFO yesterday. Add AA76 transcon from JFK to the list. The morning flight also diverted to LAX...eventually arriving some 5 hours late into SFO.
Well, I see on CX's website that it's now just taken off from LAX, and will land in SFO on Feb 5 at 8:53pm... 1.5 days behind schedule! What bad luck - for both passengers and CX!
Tarmac delays have exceptions. If it diverted to OAK it was most likely for a fuel and go ( back to SFO). CX has no representation at OAK and there was no immigration so it so they had no choice but to keep everyone on board, before going to LAX.
If the DOT considers it a violation then they have to ensure all airports have immigration and customs facilities.
CX870 wasn't just in the holding pattern. It attempted two landings at SFO before diverting to OAK. Four hours later it attempted one more SFO landing, but it's best assumed that they had fueled up with LAX as the alternate. I'm not sure if the tarmac limit of 4 hours includes ground taxi time. If it doesn't, then CX did not violate the limit. The plane started taxiing just less than 4 hours after it arrived at its OAK parking spot.
Tarmac delays are after 3 hours, not 4.
Edit: I guess it is 4 hours for an international flight. Arrival or departure. Dicey.
yesterday Alaska 707 for JAC to SFO aborted landing and diverted to PSP! Sat at PSP for a while and eventually was able to land at SFO around 10pm.
Jackson Hole to SFO diverted to Palm Springs?
Yep, ridiculous