Over the weekend Delta announced that they would no longer offer discounted fares through their group travel program for those attending NRA conferences, and that they’re requesting that the NRA remove Delta’s information from their website. This followed pressure from a lot of anti-gun consumers urging all companies to cut ties with the NRA — Delta certainly wasn’t the only company to make some changes.
Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.
— Delta (@Delta) February 24, 2018
Then on Sunday Delta issued a statement regarding their stance on the NRA, which did damage on both sides, in my opinion. I feel like this was a situation where they should have just been quiet. Here’s what they said:
Delta is reaching out to the National Rifle Association to let it know that the airline will be ending its contract for discounted fares for travel to the association’s annual meeting through Delta’s group travel program. The company will request that the NRA remove Delta’s information from its meeting website.
Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.
This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.
Republican lawmakers in Georgia weren’t happy about this, and decided to block a tax break for Delta that could have saved them up to $50 million. Sure enough, that passed yesterday in the Georgia house and senate, something that was lead by the state’s lieutenant governor. Ouch.
I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.
— Casey Cagle (@CaseyCagle) February 26, 2018
This morning Delta published a memo that their CEO, Ed Bastian, sent to employees. The memo is titled “Delta and the school safety debate.” I think the whole thing is worth sharing, given how deep of a hole Delta has dug themselves here:
This week, you have likely seen Delta in coverage of the national debate over gun control and security in U.S. schools. I want to take the opportunity to update you on how we got here and where we stand.
On Saturday, Delta rescinded a one-time group travel discount for the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting, and asked the organization to remove our name and logo from their website. This decision followed the NRA’s controversial statements after the recent school shootings in Florida. Our discounted travel benefit for NRA members could be seen as Delta implicitly endorsing the NRA. That is not the case.
I have heard from many of you over the last few days. Our people and our customers have a wide range of views on how to increase safety in our schools and public places, and we are not taking sides. Our objective in removing any implied affiliation with the NRA was to remove Delta from this debate.
While Delta’s intent was to remain neutral, some elected officials in Georgia tied our decision to a pending jet fuel tax exemption, threatening to eliminate it unless we reversed course. Our decision was not made for economic gain and our values are not for sale. We are in the process of a review to end group discounts for any group of a politically divisive nature.
None of this changes the fact that our home is Atlanta and we are proud and honored to locate our headquarters here. And we are supporters of the 2nd Amendment, just as we embrace the entire Constitution of the United States.
I have tremendous respect and admiration for Governor Nathan Deal, and thank him for the work he has done on the jet fuel tax exemption. He is a great friend to Delta. I know this action by the state legislature troubled him as it does all of us.
I know it is not comfortable to be caught in a highly emotional debate, and many of you have received questions from customers. We are at our best when we bring our customers and our world closer together. Hopefully, our decisions this week will serve this ultimate cause.
I want to thank every one of you for your professionalism and continued focus on taking care of our customers every day.
Oh my, this sure is some political posturing. You know a company has dug themselves a deep hole when their CEO says “we embrace the entire Constitution of the United States.”
I really don’t even know what to make of this situation anymore. It’s all so confusing. You have Delta talking out of both sides of their mouth, you have Republicans blocking tax breaks for big business, you have the government punishing a company over a discount that they are or aren’t offering to certain people, and you have Delta, the most self proclaimed anti-subsidy airline on earth, losing a subsidy. Is it April 1 yet?
My advice for Delta: drop it. Delta isn’t making any friends on either side with their stance here, and they’re the ones who keep bringing it up. This story would die already if they’d stop issuing statements like “we love the constitution.”
Delta says their "values are not for sale". Maybe so but, they do seem subject to change depending on the way the wind is blowing.
ATL may be strategically located, but the service at ATL is awful. The airport has one of the worst customer service cultures I've encountered almost anywhere. Nobody would be sad if they never had to set foot in ATL again.
Hate routing through ATL and wish Delta would move HQ to Minneapolis or Houston.
Glad Delta got rid of their sweetheart deal for NRA, but agree they should stop talking.
America's gun problem is beyond absurd. IMO, no assault weapons for civilians. Require training and licenses for guns as required for cars/drivers.
Really sick of the carnage and the gun-toting libertarian BS.
Hey Axe !!
Ha !! There's no room for more Delta flights in Mpls or Houston. HQ can go anywhere (Boeing), but the troops stay in place.
"Sweetheart deal for NRA" ?? Ha again !! Delta sold just 13 discounted NRA tickets in 2017, then they lost a $50+ million dollar per year GA sales tax exemption. The discount was chump change for Delta. Not even enough for walking around money.... Now $50 million is...
Hey Axe !!
Ha !! There's no room for more Delta flights in Mpls or Houston. HQ can go anywhere (Boeing), but the troops stay in place.
"Sweetheart deal for NRA" ?? Ha again !! Delta sold just 13 discounted NRA tickets in 2017, then they lost a $50+ million dollar per year GA sales tax exemption. The discount was chump change for Delta. Not even enough for walking around money.... Now $50 million is another story. The shareholders won't like a self-inflicted built-in new annual $50 million dollar loss to corporate income EVERY YEAR. The discount didn't go to the NRA, but to the NRA member buying a once-a-year ticket to the annual NRA convention.
Training & licenses are already in place in just about every state.
"Gun-toting libertarian" ?? Doesn't exist much. Maybe you mean gun-toting conservative?
Maybe you should read more.....
I find it ironic that the population advocating for better mental health care (because it is the primary reason why we have gun violence), is the same population that supports the stripping of the Affordable Care Act of the funds used to get everyone health care.
@Kerry "the gun crime rate in particular is a tiny fraction of that in NYC".
So what? Did you read the whole post, or just jump to denouncing the title?
"London has almost three times the number of reported rapes",
It only mentions "burglary", but some of that is actual home invasions where the perps break into a house when people are home. In which case you are lucky if being robbed...
@Kerry "the gun crime rate in particular is a tiny fraction of that in NYC".
So what? Did you read the whole post, or just jump to denouncing the title?
"London has almost three times the number of reported rapes",
It only mentions "burglary", but some of that is actual home invasions where the perps break into a house when people are home. In which case you are lucky if being robbed is all that happens. The US has a much lower rate of home invasions, due to the uncertainty of being shot while breaking in.
"while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically"
It doesn't require a gun to kill either. The UK has a alarmingly high incidence of stabbings. And then there's the bombings of metro stations. But other than the home invasions, stabbings, rapes, and bombings everything is fine there. ;)
@Kerry - thank you and +1
@Robert Hanson,
Hahaha you can quote any bizarre headline you want but I grew up in NYC and now live in London, and there is no way at all that London is less safe than New York. The murder rate is half, and the gun crime rate in particular is a tiny fraction of that in NYC.
New York is not especially unsafe, but it has the misfortune to be situated in a country that...
@Robert Hanson,
Hahaha you can quote any bizarre headline you want but I grew up in NYC and now live in London, and there is no way at all that London is less safe than New York. The murder rate is half, and the gun crime rate in particular is a tiny fraction of that in NYC.
New York is not especially unsafe, but it has the misfortune to be situated in a country that allows gun nuts and weapons manufacturers to flood the streets with firearms, which literally NO other civilised country would consider allowing.
The rest of your arguments are too stupid to counter individually but I will point out that you quote the Port Arthur massacre as an example of how dangerous other countries are. Was that deliberately ironic? After Port Arthur, the Australian government banned most types of guns, successfully bought them back and destroyed them, and they have had NO mass shootings since then. A perfect example of what the US should do, if we weren’t so craven cowardly and beholden to gun manufacturers.
I honestly try to stay neutral in the comments section of this blog but reading ignorant bullsh*t comments from gun nuts like you makes it very hard.
If it weren't for guns being with the citizens, we might still be a colony of Great Britain. King George's descendants then would be running the show here today. The problem isn't with the guns, it's with the citizens who don't know any better or who are mentally defective.
Blah, blah, blah....
@Robert Hanson - of course I know what has happened in AUS - I live here. Totally agree that we are not perfect and have our sad history with more than one person being killed (primarily by knives). But your tally of deaths in AUS is 59 since 1996. That's right, 59 (that's 21 years - averages out at just less than 3/year). Even with a 12th of the US population the numbers don't come...
@Robert Hanson - of course I know what has happened in AUS - I live here. Totally agree that we are not perfect and have our sad history with more than one person being killed (primarily by knives). But your tally of deaths in AUS is 59 since 1996. That's right, 59 (that's 21 years - averages out at just less than 3/year). Even with a 12th of the US population the numbers don't come near to stacking up. As Homer Simpson once said, "Oh people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.".
Move to your precious Mexico, Gene.
You'll be pleasantly surprised to find it's only the bad guys who have guns there.
@ Robert Hanson -- These actions are a joke. The only solution is a plan that begins with a ban on military-style assault weapons, and by ban, I mean collect all of the existing ones and stop selling new ones. These guns are designed for one purpose -- killing lots of people quickly. They are not for hunting or sport. These weapons of mass destruction need to be eliminated from our country NOW.
Why are you guys so super violent? Have you missed the last 200 years if progress in civilization? If you are not dropping bombs around the world you turn to yourself and kill each other. Even your police seems to happily participate.
To the rest of the world this is mind boggling. Why don't you just stop popping drugs and pills, take a deep breath and stop the violence?
You dug yourself a nice deep hole there, Ed.
Too bad there is no "edit" function on boarding area, so when something misprints, you can't fix it....
While the mass media, and Left Wing Democrats, (but I repeat myself), rant and rave about the NRA, school systems are taking decisive action.
In Ohio the Faster program is training teachers and administrators to defend their schools. And I do mean training:
"FASTER Saves Lives: How Ohio is Arming and Training School Staff"
"The program itself is structured like a mini SWAT or Rapid Response to Active Shooters course. Three days of...
While the mass media, and Left Wing Democrats, (but I repeat myself), rant and rave about the NRA, school systems are taking decisive action.
In Ohio the Faster program is training teachers and administrators to defend their schools. And I do mean training:
"FASTER Saves Lives: How Ohio is Arming and Training School Staff"
"The program itself is structured like a mini SWAT or Rapid Response to Active Shooters course. Three days of intense training that culminate by exceeding the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy requirements for firearms training. Yep, graduates are expected to outshoot state cops by the end of it. There are twenty-seven hours of instruction, including Immediate Casualty Care (ICC). FASTER is much more than just learning to stop bleeding, use or improvise tourniquets and provide medical aid. Medical aid is important and saves lives, but you know what saves more people? Stopping the killing."
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"Kentucky school district votes to allow teachers to carry concealed weapons"
"The school board for a Kentucky district unanimously voted to allow teachers to carry concealed guns in schools, the Lexington Herald-Leader reported."
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"Teachers In US' Colorado Trained To Carry Guns In Classrooms"
Teachers in Colorado are being trained to use guns, which they will be allowed to carry in classrooms to fire back in the event of a school shooting.
A group of 17 teachers and staff in Weld County are taking part in a three-day course this week organized by the conservative organization Coloradans for Civil Liberties.
Laura Carno, the founder of the group, told AFP that the so-called FASTER training is carried out by off-duty police officers who teach participants how to respond in the event of an emergency.
FASTER is the acronym for "Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response," a program created in the wake of the 2012 Sandy Hook school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, in which 20 children as well as six staff members were killed.
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As the saying goes, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away". But the teacher is right there. Instead of dying by making themselves human shields as the teachers in Fla recently did, they can stop the shooter in his tracks.
Once it's known this is likely to occur, the number of school shooting is going to decimated. "Gun Free Zones", aka free fire zones, are an invitation to (as our dear POTUS so graciously said "sickos") to become famous as a mass murderer. Once they know they get one of two shots off, and then they are shot and killed by a teacher, that hobby won't seem so appealing anymore.
"Teachers In US' Colorado Trained To Carry Guns In Classrooms"
A group of 17 teachers and staff in Weld County are taking part in a course this week. (Representational)
Los Angeles: Teachers in Colorado are being trained to use guns, which they will be allowed to carry in classrooms to fire back in the event of a school shooting.
A group of 17 teachers and staff in Weld County are taking part in a three-day course this week organized by the conservative organization Coloradans for Civil Liberties.
Laura Carno, the founder of the group, told AFP that the so-called FASTER training is carried out by off-duty police officers who teach participants how to respond in the event of an emergency.
FASTER is the acronym for "Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response," a program created in the wake of the 2012 Sandy Hook school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, in which 20 children as well as six staff members were killed.
"The reason why (carrying weapons in schools) is developing is because it's a dangerous world," Carno said, referring to some of the mass shootings that have taken place in the United States in recent years.
Under Colorado law, staff at schools can carry concealed weapons as long as they have a permit and are designated as security officers.
Carno said the majority of those taking part in the training this week work in rural districts where a police response could take 30 to 45 minutes.
The training involves lessons about gun safety and use as well as emergency response and how to overcome a threat as students flee a classroom that comes under attack.
"The purpose is not to replace police and emergency medical personnel, but to allow teachers, administrators, and other personnel on-site to stop school violence rapidly and render medical aid immediately," according to FASTER's website.
The only thing that Delta can do to school safety is to prevent their planes crashing into schools.
@Jo145 Apparently you don't follow the news at home. Here's a Time Magazine article on terrorist attacks in AUS:
2014 Endeavour Hills Stabbings 2 Counter Terrorism officials stabbed
2014 Sydney Hostage Crisis 18 held hostage, 2 killed (not counting the gunman).
2016 Minto Stabbing Attack
2017 Queabeuan Stabbing Attack One killed, 3 wounded
2017 Brighton Siege One Killed, 2 police officers wounded.
But wikipedia has more, some of which are mass shootings
...
@Jo145 Apparently you don't follow the news at home. Here's a Time Magazine article on terrorist attacks in AUS:
2014 Endeavour Hills Stabbings 2 Counter Terrorism officials stabbed
2014 Sydney Hostage Crisis 18 held hostage, 2 killed (not counting the gunman).
2016 Minto Stabbing Attack
2017 Queabeuan Stabbing Attack One killed, 3 wounded
2017 Brighton Siege One Killed, 2 police officers wounded.
But wikipedia has more, some of which are mass shootings
1996 Port Arthur massacre : 35 dead, 24 wounded
1999 Wright St Bikie Murders 3 killed, 3 wounded
2002 Monash University shooting 2 killed 5 wounded
2011 Hectorville siege 3 killed 3 wounded
Lately the weapon of choice has mostly become arson:
2000 Childers place 15 killed
2009 Churchill Fire 10 killed
2011 Quakers Hill Nursing Home fire 11 killed
2014 Rozelle fire 3 killed 2 wounded
2017 Melbourne car attack 6 killed, 30 wounded
The US has more attacks, of course. For one reason the population is over 12 times that of AUS. The other one is you don't have as many immigrants from Islamic countries. Of the mass shootings in the last 10 years, half of them were carried out by first or second generation Islamic immigrants..
@ Robert Hanson -- I was being partly sarcastic. I do love Atlanta, and I do think it is one of the greatest cities in the US and that it is getting better. Too bad it is surrounded by the state of Georgia...
You're all missing the point. Delta could move from ATL very quickly if they wanted to. Nobody is talking about dismantling their ATL hub. That truly would be stupid. However it would make sense for them to place their headquarters in a more business-friendly city.
Look what Boeing did. They moved their headquarters from Seattle to Chicago in a very quick fashion. Their major manufacturing facilities are still in Seattle and probably always will be...
You're all missing the point. Delta could move from ATL very quickly if they wanted to. Nobody is talking about dismantling their ATL hub. That truly would be stupid. However it would make sense for them to place their headquarters in a more business-friendly city.
Look what Boeing did. They moved their headquarters from Seattle to Chicago in a very quick fashion. Their major manufacturing facilities are still in Seattle and probably always will be but they moved the headquarters. Delta could easily do the same thing. Remember it wasn't all that long ago that American was headquartered in New York City. USAirways was headquartered in Washington DC before moving out to Phoenix. Companies can and do move their headquarters. There's nothing really stopping Delta from doing the same.
I can't tell if Gene is being sarcastic or not, but I agree, Delta is sitting pretty there.
Delta leaving ATL is a discussion for the reality challenged. Doing so would take years. They'd have to find available gates for a yuge number of flights, get the routes approved, refigure the connections from everywhere to everywhere. Lose ATL based customers and hope to find new ones. Lots of long time employees would have to...
I can't tell if Gene is being sarcastic or not, but I agree, Delta is sitting pretty there.
Delta leaving ATL is a discussion for the reality challenged. Doing so would take years. They'd have to find available gates for a yuge number of flights, get the routes approved, refigure the connections from everywhere to everywhere. Lose ATL based customers and hope to find new ones. Lots of long time employees would have to sell their homes and move. It just goes on and on....
Not to mention that Delta dominates ATL, and if they left, someone could move in and take their place/market share. It's not that Delta wouldn't ever do it, it's that they wouldn't even think about for even 30 seconds.
The real bottom line is that major companies like Delta and politicians like Casey Cagle are using the deaths of too many (BTW I think 1 is too many) young people to score points. This is incredibly sad and while I love to visit my American friends and all the people I have met on my holidays have been simply wonderful, I sure as hell am glad I don't live there.
At least here...
The real bottom line is that major companies like Delta and politicians like Casey Cagle are using the deaths of too many (BTW I think 1 is too many) young people to score points. This is incredibly sad and while I love to visit my American friends and all the people I have met on my holidays have been simply wonderful, I sure as hell am glad I don't live there.
At least here in AUS I know my nephews can go to school without needing to have safety drills on what to do if someone storms their school with guns.
The bottom line is that Delta isn't leaving or even considering leaving ATL. It would be a very stupid thing to do. Atlanta is the greatest city in the USA, so Delta is sitting pretty. Why on earth would they want to leave such a great place?
Well said @Matt, thank you
No wonder they are trying to walk it all back.
Here's what happened after Delta, Enterprise, et al issued those anti-NRA edicts:
"POLITICO/Morning Consult:
“All companies who cut business ties with the NRA last week saw their public opinion decline this week.”
Net favorability ratings before and after:
Enterprise 49>25
Norton 38>20
Lifelock 35>21
Met Life 33>21
Alamo 30>19
National 29>17
SimpliSafe 15>13
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No wonder they are trying to walk it all back.
Here's what happened after Delta, Enterprise, et al issued those anti-NRA edicts:
"POLITICO/Morning Consult:
“All companies who cut business ties with the NRA last week saw their public opinion decline this week.”
Net favorability ratings before and after:
Enterprise 49>25
Norton 38>20
Lifelock 35>21
Met Life 33>21
Alamo 30>19
National 29>17
SimpliSafe 15>13
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Plus this:
"Condoleezza Rice stuns ‘The View’ audience with amazing story about 2nd Amendment rights
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice offered an amazing story from her childhood to explain to the more liberal hosts of “The View” why she supports Second Amendment rights.
“Let me tell you why I’m a defender of the Second Amendment,” she began.
“I was a little girl growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, in the late fifties, early sixties,” she explained. “There was no way that Bull Connor and the Birmingham Police were going to protect you.”
“And so when White Knight Riders would come through our neighborhood,” she said, “my father and his friends would take their guns and they’d go to the head of the neighborhood, it’s a little cul-de-sac and they would fire in the air, if anybody came through.”
“I don’t think they actually ever hit anybody,” she continued. “But they protected the neighborhood. And I’m sure if Bull Connor had known where those guns were he would have rounded them up.”
“And so, I don’t favor some things like gun registration,” she said to a suddenly silent crowd."
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In other news, this is from the London Telegraph:
"London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest"
"London is now more crime ridden and dangerous than New York City, with rape, robbery and violent offences far higher on this side of the Atlantic.
While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.
London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically."
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Vapid posts full of ad hominem slurs arriving in 3, 2, 1.... ;)
Actually, Matt, taking all the guns from Americans is not only a viable strategy, it is also good and cool. This is because guns are bad and the people who like guns are dumb.
The CEO of a public, profit-focused company makes a statement including the words "not made for economic gain." His ONLY job is to make the company successful financially.
He should be removed for incompetence. Saying you want to stay neutral and avoid the debate undermines that idea. If that were true, you wouldn't say anything.
Also, for the people who don't know, the US is not a democracy under any definition. Their government...
The CEO of a public, profit-focused company makes a statement including the words "not made for economic gain." His ONLY job is to make the company successful financially.
He should be removed for incompetence. Saying you want to stay neutral and avoid the debate undermines that idea. If that were true, you wouldn't say anything.
Also, for the people who don't know, the US is not a democracy under any definition. Their government is set up specifically to avoid temporary emotional public sentiment from making sweeping changes to fundamental rights. The founders understood that the masses are asses.
The US broke away because it didn't want to be like us, understandably. The argument that gun control works in Europe so the US should do it too is illogical. Different countries have different priorities.
Europe is on edge because we have a bomb problem; Africa because of homegrown terrorism and the apartheid; Asia because of dictator-like power; South America because of incredibly violent gangs.
They must deal with things rationally. Taking all the guns from Americans is not a viable strategy. They are not like us. There's not a once size fits all strategy.
I’m so conflicted. I hate Delta and I hate the South. Let these idiots beat each other bloody I say. Delta getting screwed over after complaining about ME3 subsidies for years, and the supposed pro business South getting testy about guns. All of them are hypocrites.
Thanks for laugh anthony, where to next. Let me guess, Africa first to visit its 'most educated leader' Mugabe, even if deposed. Then on to Venezuela where gun control is working fabulously for the citizens and to visit the remains of Chavez and throw back a few with Maduro to wish him well in his next election, before the obligatory stopover in Bogota to have a talk about the wordl with FARC before moving onto...
Thanks for laugh anthony, where to next. Let me guess, Africa first to visit its 'most educated leader' Mugabe, even if deposed. Then on to Venezuela where gun control is working fabulously for the citizens and to visit the remains of Chavez and throw back a few with Maduro to wish him well in his next election, before the obligatory stopover in Bogota to have a talk about the wordl with FARC before moving onto Havana to visit Justin Trudeau's relatives. Not to worry Anthony your worldly travel and fawning over global elites should be enough to allow you leave there with your ears intact. Finally the highlight of the tour, a stop over at the same resort in Haiti to take a selfie in the very same spot that Conan O'Brien stood to prove how wonderful life is in Haiti.
If your stature as a global elite alone isn't enough to get you audience with Ed Bastian at Delta to move HQ, that itinerary certainly will and he would undoubtedly grant you a meeting with the board to introduce the motion, just be sure to wipe any drool off your face. Cheers.
Really? You have "the government" punishing a corporation? Noooo you have Republicans of GA, many who probably are members of the NRA, punishing Delta over an ENTITLEMENT they have in the past chosen to give a certain group. The tax break is an incentive to Delta that GA was going to give them in order to incent them to continue to be a major contributor to the state's economy. I hope Delta picks up and moves asap.
@Anthony for one a lot of Deltas route cant be operated from Minneapolis or Seattle. The mileage doesn't work. Atlanta opened up a lot of new destinations that they cant pull off from further north. And if you want to be technical there really isn't much growth potential in Seattle anyway. The airport is already stretched thin. Atlanta has strategic value with where its located, more than you think. If Delta tries to pull out...
@Anthony for one a lot of Deltas route cant be operated from Minneapolis or Seattle. The mileage doesn't work. Atlanta opened up a lot of new destinations that they cant pull off from further north. And if you want to be technical there really isn't much growth potential in Seattle anyway. The airport is already stretched thin. Atlanta has strategic value with where its located, more than you think. If Delta tries to pull out UA and AA will move right in and pick up all those extra passengers.
And lets face it people don't use Atlanta because they like it, they use it because its convenient. Delta could move eventually, but it would not be quick or easy and would cost them a lot of money.
If Delta were to move out of Atlanta people will move to whatever airline fills the void. Their rewards program is not near lucrative enough to fly way out of your way to use them. Most people these days book on price and not loyalty anyway.
They are in ATL for the cheap(er) uneducated labor.
@Sam, absolutely! Minneapolis, like Seattle, is a city full of highly-educated, globally-minded people -- Atlanta is, and I'll try to be respectful here, one of the most backwards places I've visited on the planet. I have an easier time talking about the world with friends in Mexico City or Bogotá than I do your average person in Atlanta. There's *zero reason* -- other than a quirk of history and path dependence -- for Delta to...
@Sam, absolutely! Minneapolis, like Seattle, is a city full of highly-educated, globally-minded people -- Atlanta is, and I'll try to be respectful here, one of the most backwards places I've visited on the planet. I have an easier time talking about the world with friends in Mexico City or Bogotá than I do your average person in Atlanta. There's *zero reason* -- other than a quirk of history and path dependence -- for Delta to keep its hub and headquarters in Atlanta.
As someone who works in communications, I agree that the more Delta tries to explain its “neutrality, the deeper the hole they dig themselves into. The other companies who ended NRA discounts didn’t have this problem. Word economy, people!
@stuart - Per Delta’s one admission, MSP is their most profitable hub, not ATL.
Maybe the fuel tax exemption for airlines operating out of ATL was initiated to KEEP Delta focused on ATL.
It will be interesting to see if this destroys Cagle's chances at winning the Governor's race, or helps it.
@Sam...There is a reason for it. Atlanta (and Charlotte for American now) offer the two most profitable and strategically placed HUBS in the country. Atlanta is perfectly positioned to feed in all directions. While MSP and DTW are indeed better facilities the locations are only good for certain target regions. ATL can be fed from virtually anywhere in the U.S. and Intl. It is a juggernaut of a HUB and always will be.
Well, this whole thing has turned into one big mess hasn't it? It's pretty funny actually...
@Cole: why shouldn't Delta move operations to Seattle and Minneapolis from Atlanta?
What does Atlanta have? Coca Cola and some regional corporate offices -- nothing more! ATL is also a horrifically-managed airport -- feels like third-world chaos -- that can't even manage a few inches of snow, ice, or wind/rain; can't even keep the lights on! Moreover, Atlanta is a low-income city without a large population of rich people to pay premium prices for...
@Cole: why shouldn't Delta move operations to Seattle and Minneapolis from Atlanta?
What does Atlanta have? Coca Cola and some regional corporate offices -- nothing more! ATL is also a horrifically-managed airport -- feels like third-world chaos -- that can't even manage a few inches of snow, ice, or wind/rain; can't even keep the lights on! Moreover, Atlanta is a low-income city without a large population of rich people to pay premium prices for premium business/first. Atlanta doesn't even have a large population of global economy travelers -- your average suburban Atlanta resident wants to waste money on Orlando or Vegas, not a trans-Atlantic flight to Italy. Atlanta's climate is fairly extreme: lots of thunderstorms in the summer. Nobody enjoys the "I don't give a darn" service culture of Atlanta and the Southeast U.S. -- Atlanta has to have some of the worst customer service I've encountered anywhere in the world.
Seattle, however, is in close proximity to booming China, now has the world's richest company (Amazon), has a ton of other rich tech companies there or moving there, and has a growing population of upwardly mobile, global elites who want to travel and want to do so in high-priced comfort. Seattle's suburbs are full of highly-educated people who value travel and international experiences. Seattle also doesn't have a backwards state government that allows semi-automatic rifles in its airport's non-security area. Seattle's climate is more moderate: winters are mild and fewer thunderstorms in the winter. Customer service is more competent and efficient in the Pacific Northwest -- i.e. doesn't feel like a developing country -- than in Georgia.
Georgia and Atlanta need Delta *way*, *way*, *way* more than Delta needs Georgia and Atlanta.
Give Seattle and Minneapolis a 10-20 year head start to improve their airports, and Delta can abandon the agricultural backwater of Georgia for booming cities with booming tech/health companies.
Not sure why you think this statement was a bad one, Lucky. It seems a perfect response to employees who have, most likely, been at the front lines of feedback from people. Are they supposed to just say nothing according to you? On the contrary I think this perfectly explains what they have said from the start: that they do not want to be involved in politically or socially divisive organizations that may come across...
Not sure why you think this statement was a bad one, Lucky. It seems a perfect response to employees who have, most likely, been at the front lines of feedback from people. Are they supposed to just say nothing according to you? On the contrary I think this perfectly explains what they have said from the start: that they do not want to be involved in politically or socially divisive organizations that may come across as an endorsement. I imagine this is not limited to the NRA and they are looking at all of their tie-ins now to assure that they remove their company from any potential social arguments. To me this says exactly what they needed to say: we are an airline serving that is here to serve all.
@ RC - Thanks!
@Ray Good luck with that. Maybe you should do some research to see what it takes to repeal an amendment. It will never happen.
Anyone saying Delta should move out of Atlanta obviously doesn't get it. It will never happen. They would lose way to much business.
Poor Delta. I have a modest proposal...
As it has now lost its subsidy from Georgia, why doesn’t it open negotiations with Qatar to relocate there? After all, the USA’s biggest overseas military base is hosted in Qatar, and Delta has told us how intimately involved it is in military transport matters. Apparently Qatar also provides subsidies for airlines, so DL might get even more subsidy than it does now - we all know...
Poor Delta. I have a modest proposal...
As it has now lost its subsidy from Georgia, why doesn’t it open negotiations with Qatar to relocate there? After all, the USA’s biggest overseas military base is hosted in Qatar, and Delta has told us how intimately involved it is in military transport matters. Apparently Qatar also provides subsidies for airlines, so DL might get even more subsidy than it does now - we all know just how much the US3 love a good government subsidy! And it would certainly show the State of Georgia what’s what.
The Minneapolis/St. Paul and Detroit hubs have been grossly under-utilized by Delta since the merger with Northwest. They seem bent on routing EVERYTHING through ATL come hell or high water. Just because ATL is the busiest airport does not make it the favorite airport. MSP and DTW score much higher than ATL in almost every passenger survey. Delta seems to think that their customers prefer to connect in ATL, but that by itself is misleading....
The Minneapolis/St. Paul and Detroit hubs have been grossly under-utilized by Delta since the merger with Northwest. They seem bent on routing EVERYTHING through ATL come hell or high water. Just because ATL is the busiest airport does not make it the favorite airport. MSP and DTW score much higher than ATL in almost every passenger survey. Delta seems to think that their customers prefer to connect in ATL, but that by itself is misleading. When ATL is the only option you give them, then that's what they'll take. Numbers alone do not paint the whole picture. The bottom line is Delta routes way too much metal through ATL. It's no wonder their operation goes "South like Sherman" any time there is the mere mention of snow, rain, wind, gloom of night, etc. It's time for them to spread things out and lower their overall risk.
Aside from Delta digging themselves a hole here, the most concerning aspect of this is the government's interference in Delta's relationship w/ the NRA. The gov't has no vested interest in who Delta chooses to offer discounts to, and the NRA is in no way entitled to discounts from corporations based on any state/federal laws. Georgia's meddling in this is blatant corruption on the part of elected officials, who are using their position to create...
Aside from Delta digging themselves a hole here, the most concerning aspect of this is the government's interference in Delta's relationship w/ the NRA. The gov't has no vested interest in who Delta chooses to offer discounts to, and the NRA is in no way entitled to discounts from corporations based on any state/federal laws. Georgia's meddling in this is blatant corruption on the part of elected officials, who are using their position to create benefit for NRA members.
Delta - Please stop talking and issuing statements. Also fire your PR team. All they needed was that one tweet removing the discount. They ought to learn from Dick's. They have done a great job on this
Tax Breaks - That amendment should not have been there in the first place. Stop subsidizing corporations in the names of jobs creation. Either you are a free market economy or you are not. There are no tax...
Delta - Please stop talking and issuing statements. Also fire your PR team. All they needed was that one tweet removing the discount. They ought to learn from Dick's. They have done a great job on this
Tax Breaks - That amendment should not have been there in the first place. Stop subsidizing corporations in the names of jobs creation. Either you are a free market economy or you are not. There are no tax breaks in free market economy.
GOP and Governor - You can't make this up. This is what you see in "third world" countries. You don't support an organization that I take donations from so I am going to retaliate. I am surprised as no one in media is rising this point. This has to be illegal and its mind boggling if it is not. Where is the freedom of speech that all american politicians preach about all the time
Gun Control - No civilian in the world needs a gun, unless you are in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq or any other war torn country. Personally, I am against guns. However, I do think gun free american is never going to happen. In addition, I also think there is a legitimate need for folks that live in rural america, farmers, ranchers etc. You can't rely on cops to show up on time, so you need to be armed for self defence
Founders in their wildest dreams would not have imagined civilians carrying semiautomatic/automatic assault rifles or concealed weapons. However, I think the compromise should be to ban all assault rifles and accessories/devices that try to circumvent this ban (like bump stocks), ban high-capacity magazines, Increased background checks for each gun sale including private and trade shows, and finally limit number of guns a person can own.
Your right to own a gun does not TRUMP my right to live PERIOD.
A good solution would be for Delta to (immediately) move headquarters to Minneapolis -- and then, in 20 years or so, move hub operations to another expanded airport(s). This would allow Delta to send an immediate message to the backwards State of Georgia that its crazy politics won't be tolerated, while also allowing for a humane transition -- primarily for many staff with homes and families in the city -- out of Atlanta.
The Georgia politicians, and those in many others states, are totally the lap dogs of the NRA. "Go hide the fuel tax exemption, Fido." "Go bark at Mr. Bastian, Fido." The rest of us who are sick and tired of this need to organize too, or at least stop being so complacent about it. Delta indeed should consider moving its headquarters and the many associated jobs elsewhere not in retaliation for the fuel tax exemption,...
The Georgia politicians, and those in many others states, are totally the lap dogs of the NRA. "Go hide the fuel tax exemption, Fido." "Go bark at Mr. Bastian, Fido." The rest of us who are sick and tired of this need to organize too, or at least stop being so complacent about it. Delta indeed should consider moving its headquarters and the many associated jobs elsewhere not in retaliation for the fuel tax exemption, but to tell the politicians that their slavish worship of the almighty gun lobby has consequences.
@William The difference is in America pretty much anyone can go into a store and buy a gun and have it ready to go. Hell, this site showed a guy in Atlanta airport in 2015 legally walking around with a loaded AR-15 and 100 rounds of ammo. This is not normal I am sorry. For sure other countries have guns, and mass shootings. And if someone wants to do this barbaric act they will find...
@William The difference is in America pretty much anyone can go into a store and buy a gun and have it ready to go. Hell, this site showed a guy in Atlanta airport in 2015 legally walking around with a loaded AR-15 and 100 rounds of ammo. This is not normal I am sorry. For sure other countries have guns, and mass shootings. And if someone wants to do this barbaric act they will find a way. The difference is that in America it's a weekly occurrence due to the easy access to guns. Other countries make major changes when shootings occur to hopefully not allow them to happen again. For America, it's just another day on the news cycle; another day moves forward.
ATL is a crummy airport with low-quality service from everyone: TSA, check-in agents, concessions, lounges, etc. The State of Georgia allows civilians to bring semi-automatic weapons into the non-secure areas of the airport. ATL does a horrendous job maintaining operations when the least bit of snow, ice, rain or wind hits. Recently, they couldn't even keep the lights on.
In contrast, Minneapolis-St. Paul is a serious city -- with serious winter capabilities -- and non...
ATL is a crummy airport with low-quality service from everyone: TSA, check-in agents, concessions, lounges, etc. The State of Georgia allows civilians to bring semi-automatic weapons into the non-secure areas of the airport. ATL does a horrendous job maintaining operations when the least bit of snow, ice, rain or wind hits. Recently, they couldn't even keep the lights on.
In contrast, Minneapolis-St. Paul is a serious city -- with serious winter capabilities -- and non of the Southern/Confederacy BS of guns, horrible customer service, and general disorder/chaos.
Delta would be doing all of its passengers a favor by abandoning Atlanta for a more pleasant and competent airport.
This is a great opportunity for Delta to abandon a backwards city and state.
Please, Delta, get the heck out of Atlanta.
1) It wasn't a tax exemption for Delta; it was a fuel tax exemption proposal for any jet fuel bought in ATL. (of course, Delta would be the main beneficiary).
2) The tax exemption wasn't revoked, it was a new tax exemption, and was attached to a larger overall tax deal. The GA legislature just removed it.
3) Cagle (Vice Governor) is in ethics hot water for taking money from the NRA and then making...
1) It wasn't a tax exemption for Delta; it was a fuel tax exemption proposal for any jet fuel bought in ATL. (of course, Delta would be the main beneficiary).
2) The tax exemption wasn't revoked, it was a new tax exemption, and was attached to a larger overall tax deal. The GA legislature just removed it.
3) Cagle (Vice Governor) is in ethics hot water for taking money from the NRA and then making retributive legislation actions. (He also takes money from Delta). Cagle is running for governor.
4) The biggest impact is potentially Amazon HQ2 looking elsewhere.
Delta was good in supporting their employees and giving them information. I am not sure why DL or any other airline can't pay taxes on fuel though. I know I do.
Thanks for the kind words, Charles S.! Glad you agree.
@ William. We’re talking about what is supposed to be a developed first world nation South Africa has the same number of murders as the US and the population is 6 x smaller. There are other more dangerous countries including sadly Mexico
However you don’t need to walk around town to the supermarket armed with a gun
There’s been yet another shooting at a place of education, this time Central Michigan university
...@ William. We’re talking about what is supposed to be a developed first world nation South Africa has the same number of murders as the US and the population is 6 x smaller. There are other more dangerous countries including sadly Mexico
However you don’t need to walk around town to the supermarket armed with a gun
There’s been yet another shooting at a place of education, this time Central Michigan university
How many more ?
I’ts terrible and embarrassing
Last week I watched several extremely well spoken students from the school in Florida speak on tv. They are only teenagers and you have a leader trump, who speaks like an uneducated troglodyte
This is the same trump photographed giving the thumbs up , with the leader of the Italian fascist party Lega Nord Matteo Salvini
The USA is a great country with wonderful flora , fauna , landscapes , people , performing arts , sports and museums but it’s divided by a group of fundamentalists who think they have a right to go around carrying a weapon based on an 18th century law
Ron Swanson...now that’s a true American. Regardless if you agree or disagree with the 2nd amendment it’s not going to change. Read up on how many states have to ratify it and you will see why. @Hosea what an intellectual argument. @Ben O. They are not holding Delta hostage. While I agree this is punitive in nature they aren’t required to give them a subsidy. I also firmly believe it’s up the voters in Georgia if they approve of the legislatures actions.
Sorry but I appreciate Delta's statement. I have a lot of respect for them. Everyone has different opinions on the issue.
Wait, no mention of illegal state fuel subsidies for Gulf carriers? Ah, I see, when it's a state-issued 'tax break on jet fuel', that's a completely different thing altogether. In fact, forfeiting state tax revenue in Georgia in favor of a highly profitable commercial subject makes you 'a great friend to Delta'. Okay...
@ Ben -- Screw Delta. As a Georgia taxpayer, I am thrilled that Delta had their tax exemption revoked.
I like the "not made for economic gain and our values are not for sale" statement. Too funny. Also I wonder how this all fits in with Delta as they operate their own refinery. I assume that doesn't impact the ATL market which is where they are walking back the statement on this. I still say it's stupid to sit in the middle of the road on this as they will get hit by the...
I like the "not made for economic gain and our values are not for sale" statement. Too funny. Also I wonder how this all fits in with Delta as they operate their own refinery. I assume that doesn't impact the ATL market which is where they are walking back the statement on this. I still say it's stupid to sit in the middle of the road on this as they will get hit by the bus. From a pure marketing standpoint they are not gaining any favors. They have managed to confuse United as they aren't sure which way to follow this time.
You can take the shithole out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the shithole.
Time for Delta to move "back home" to Minneapolis/St. Paul. And for what's it's worth, the State of Minnesota enacted a fuel tax credit back in 2013. If State of George is not willing to offer Delta incentives then it's time to look elsewhere. If I were Delta I would send a clear shot across the Georgia legislature bow; We're not going to further expand in ATL. Future expansion will occur in more business friendly...
Time for Delta to move "back home" to Minneapolis/St. Paul. And for what's it's worth, the State of Minnesota enacted a fuel tax credit back in 2013. If State of George is not willing to offer Delta incentives then it's time to look elsewhere. If I were Delta I would send a clear shot across the Georgia legislature bow; We're not going to further expand in ATL. Future expansion will occur in more business friendly states like Minnesota.
And I agree, it's time for Delta to shut up about this issue. They only keep digging themselves a deeper hole. They should instead focus on improving the reliability of their Fisher-Price systems.
What's their criteria for determining what groups are "of a politically divisive nature"? I could figure out a way to consider any company politically divisive. Also, if they wanted to remain neutral they should have said, "we are ending special discounts for the NRA, but will continue to negotiate group rates, as we would for any other organization."
@Steve - would that we could be like other countries where nobody ever kills anybody. May the peacefulness and non-violence that has swept Mexico make its way north of the border! May all the killings via weaponized trucks end here in the US so that we can say, as all of Europe can, "No one has ever been killed here while they were just standing on a sidewalk minding their own business." May bombs stop...
@Steve - would that we could be like other countries where nobody ever kills anybody. May the peacefulness and non-violence that has swept Mexico make its way north of the border! May all the killings via weaponized trucks end here in the US so that we can say, as all of Europe can, "No one has ever been killed here while they were just standing on a sidewalk minding their own business." May bombs stop exploding everywhere in the states so that, like our friends in England, we can attend the concerts of dim-witted pop stars without worry. May another mass shooting never happen in America, just as they have never happened in France. Imagine!
They published it in a clear attempt to have Nathan Deal veto the legislation. Which he should, based on what Jeff said above - politicians can't hold businesses hostage to their own personal beliefs on completely unrelated issues.
Delta isn't continuing the conversation. They issued an internal memo because they probably heard from a lot of employees asking for more information.
@ Jason -- It's not really internal anymore when you post it on your public news hub page.
If GA removes the tax subsidy and Delta fires a thousands of staffs in Atlanta, will the gun lobby give the fired staffs employment?
Delta should stand it's ground.
@Jeff Shilling - couldn't have said it better myself.
@Billiken
There's an app called Bitmoji that allows you to easily create an animated version of yourself.
This really is the gift that keeps on giving. Here we have one of the most vocal anti-mideast-airline companies, that speaks incessantly about the need to "protect" American airlines from those that get "unfair" subsidies from their home governments, responding to the impending loss of their sweetheart Georgia tax break by promising that they support "the entire Constitution of the United States." You can't make this sh!t up.
Go big or go home. It's time to seriously talk about repealing the 2nd amendment. We ended slavery, we can end gun violence. Plenty of developed liberal democracies have thrived with orders of magnitude less gun violence than the US and much stricter gun control.
The whole world is looking at the United States and shaking its collective head. (As I write this the news is reporting a shooting at Michigan State University. It goes on and on and on...)
I like those cartoon images of you! Who creates those?
Just my opinion. I don't care what a legislator holds as a value or opinion, but to impose such in a retaliatory manner is abuse of power. I don't care if the legislator or other political official advocates for my side. If they do it in a retaliatory manner I will not vote for them, and I will speak against them.
This is truly reflective of a persons core value, and it stinks! It's manipulative and wrong.
Can't Americans just stop killing each other? Your obsessions with guns to the rest of the world is mind-boggling.
Time for Delta to move out of ATL.
Guns are bad and people who use them are bad