I’m not sure how this is going to end, though I can’t imagine it’ll be good for labor relations. I first covered this last night, but want to provide an update, as the world’s most powerful flight attendant has just chimed in…
In this post:
Protesting United flight attendants reportedly in trouble
On Tuesday, United had a media event in Brooklyn, to celebrate the launch of its new Polaris business class product. Prior to executives at the airline taking the stage, roughly a dozen flight attendants stormed into the event, walked around in front of the stage holding signs, and screamed. Specifically, they chanted things like “if we don’t get it, shut it down.”
This is in reference to flight attendants not yet having a new contract, nearly four years after their previous contract became amendable. Flight attendants have accused management of dragging their feet in making a fair offer.
Below you can see a small part of the protest. The flight attendants were ultimately escorted out by security.
FA’s have their say at today’s UA new Polaris event
— JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) May 13, 2025 at 7:07 PM
[image or embed]
Many of us wondered if there would be repercussions for them, and now we have the answer. @xJonNYC reports that the flight attendants involved in the protest have been removed from service, pending an investigation. While he initially said it was “100% unconfirmed,” he updated it to “pretty confirmed,” and he knows what he’s talking about.
***reportedly** (100% unconfirmed) "Reportedly the FA protestors have been removed from service pending investigations"
— JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) May 14, 2025 at 1:03 PM
pretty confirmed
— JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) May 14, 2025 at 2:47 PM
Now, it remains to be seen what this investigation actually reveals. Will the flight attendants lose their jobs or be punished in some other way, or is this just for show, to try to prevent other flight attendants from doing the same?
Sara Nelson, President of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, and often referred to as the world’s most powerful flight attendant, has chimed in on this matter. In response to the claim that the flight attendants have been suspended, she has claimed that this is “protected activity,” and that’s the end of the story.
My take on United punishing protesting flight attendants
I think this situation really gets at the complexity of labor relations between major corporations and unionized workforces, and seeing how far boundaries can be pushed.
United flight attendants absolutely deserve a new contract, and it has taken way too long to get that ratified. United CEO Scott Kirby has promised them an industry leading contract, yet they’re still being paid way less than their counterparts at other airlines.
I’m not entirely sure if the lack of ratification is because management is being unreasonable, the union is being unreasonable, or something in the middle. After all, American flight attendants have ratified a new contract, so that should be roughly what United flight attendants should expect as well.
In terms of flight attendants drawing attention to their cause of wanting a new contract, I think storming a media event that the CEO is at is certainly a smart way to maximize the attention that a demand will get. So they thought that part through.
But actions also have consequences. It’s one thing to protest outside of an event, in public. But to enter an event that you’re not invited to, that’s being held by your own company, seems to cross the line, no? I totally support their desire for a new contract, but also, there are boundaries you don’t cross.
Nelson claiming that this is union activity suggests the union was also officially behind this in some capacity. And it was a “protected” activity? If that’s the case, one wonders what wouldn’t be allowed?
Ultimately I’m not sure it’s in management’s best interest to take extreme action here. I can appreciate management wanting to flex its muscles and send a message to flight attendants not to do this, but I think severe punishment probably wouldn’t be very good for labor relations or morale, and not in the company’s best interest.
Bottom line
On Tuesday, we saw roughly a dozen United flight attendants storm into a Polaris media event, in order to express their displeasure over their lack of a contract. They ended up being escorted out by security, but that’s not all. These flights attendants have now reportedly been suspended pending an investigation.
It’s going to be interesting to see how this is handled. On the one hand, I think their behavior crossed the line, as this is different than protesting outside of an event. On the other hand, I’m not sure angering frontline workers by taking serious action is in United’s best interest either, in terms of morale.
What do you make of this situation, and how do you see it playing out?
They should have been fired...
Why?
Retired Delta Flight attendant here. That was very inappropriate for these FAs to do this. There is a right place and time ,this was the wrong place and time. They should be fired if it is Uniteds policy about protesting.
Of course a retiree from a non-unionized workforce would think that.
This is what happens when you let terrorists protest go unchecked in our country. United needs to get rid of trash like this.
Good for them! United is making billions of dollars!! It's time to give back to their employees!
This is United Airlines we're talking about. After experiencing the Flight From Hell on United several years ago, I refuse to travel with them. I'm not surprised at how they treat their flight attendants.
like your ONE flight defines the entire airline...
“Fire them there’s always people to hire” yet senior flight attendants have more to lose, so want to stick around, the company isn’t retaining workers because we literally get treated like dirt. Any problem? Blame the gate agents or flight attendants.
“European carriers and Asian are way better” they also have better STAFFING, Polaris goes on forever with minimal overworked flight attendants. We fly with things broken, everything is differ! While all passengers see...
“Fire them there’s always people to hire” yet senior flight attendants have more to lose, so want to stick around, the company isn’t retaining workers because we literally get treated like dirt. Any problem? Blame the gate agents or flight attendants.
“European carriers and Asian are way better” they also have better STAFFING, Polaris goes on forever with minimal overworked flight attendants. We fly with things broken, everything is differ! While all passengers see is a shiny facade.
Here is why the flight attendants have to resort to extreme tactics:
1. In 2022 United’s CEO earned $9.8 Million
2. In 2023 he earned $18.6 Million
3. In 2024 he earned $33.9 Million
At the rate he’s going he’ll be earning $50 million in no time. Meanwhile Flight Attendants salaries have not changed in seven years
The fact is that when United last ratified a contract a slice of pizza...
Here is why the flight attendants have to resort to extreme tactics:
1. In 2022 United’s CEO earned $9.8 Million
2. In 2023 he earned $18.6 Million
3. In 2024 he earned $33.9 Million
At the rate he’s going he’ll be earning $50 million in no time. Meanwhile Flight Attendants salaries have not changed in seven years
The fact is that when United last ratified a contract a slice of pizza back then used to cost2.00
Today a slice of pizza at the airport costs $7.00 plus tax.
Scott is being greedy at best
Stock buybacks should never have been legalized, and they're what enable this. It's market manipulation by the company to pump it's stock value and the CEO compensation.
Really? The United CEO (Scott Kirby) has been in the airline industry for more than 30 years and manages a company of more than 100,000 employees with annual revenue of almost $50 billion, so he deserves whatever he can get, especially when his pay package is largely incentive based...
Fly the Unfriendly Skys! WHY NO NEW CONTACT after 4(!) years?!
This was the perfect opportunity to let EVERYONE know what kind of company United is. They don't take care of their employees who are the Frontline workers, the Flight Attendants. Face it the aircraft can't even board passengers without minimum crew on board. Yet the company expects the operation to run smoothly for them, even if flight attendants are exhausted mentally and physically or sick. Just show up to the gate on time to work...
This was the perfect opportunity to let EVERYONE know what kind of company United is. They don't take care of their employees who are the Frontline workers, the Flight Attendants. Face it the aircraft can't even board passengers without minimum crew on board. Yet the company expects the operation to run smoothly for them, even if flight attendants are exhausted mentally and physically or sick. Just show up to the gate on time to work that flight. You can't call off or you will get points and you simply can't afford to anyways. Flight Attendants deserve a contract that will allow them not to live pay check to pay check. One that value's them as humans and a valuable member of the team. And for those that say, email them , try and solve it behind closed doors, don't you think they have tried that!!! Scott Kirby only cares about having a bigger bank account and not his employees . So to see this new improved aircraft and all these amenities is a slap in the face to the Flight Attendants. Yes, it's a protected event but the company doesn't follow rules, they bend them to benefit the company, whether that's amending OUR contract to support their riteric. Those employees that were suspended will be forced out and there's nothing AFA will be able to do. It sucks but that's the just of the situation. This is clearly a form of retaliation of United Airlines against the employees. Seek legal counsel IMMEDIATELY.
They will not be forced out. Sara Nelson went live last night saying they will be fine and will be protected.
Fire them. Good riddance!
In October 2024, United's Board approved a $1.5 billion stock buyback, but in more that 4 years cannot accomplish a flight attendants' contract. I was a loyal United customer, but this along with other customer service decisions has me utilizing competitors. This action is one of desperation. This vindictiveness and failure to reach agreement with the faces of the company really shows the direction Kirby is taking.
You understand exactly what is going on. Even with all this public backlash Scott Kirby doesn’t care and hasn’t even commented on it. All he cares about is money
Well AGAIN Mr. Kirby IS the WORLD’s HIGHEST PAID Airline CEO. He received an 18% increase in 2024 & for 2025 he got a 33% increase. United has Flight Attendants LIVING in their cars who are based in some cities like San Fransisco, are eligible for food stamps, are doing ride share jobs, etc,. They are playing hardball & WANT to eliminate MANY things Flight Attendants have fought for over the years, they WANT to...
Well AGAIN Mr. Kirby IS the WORLD’s HIGHEST PAID Airline CEO. He received an 18% increase in 2024 & for 2025 he got a 33% increase. United has Flight Attendants LIVING in their cars who are based in some cities like San Fransisco, are eligible for food stamps, are doing ride share jobs, etc,. They are playing hardball & WANT to eliminate MANY things Flight Attendants have fought for over the years, they WANT to take away benefits, increase costs of health insurance & limit options, they want to increase a maximum “duty day” from 16 hrs. to 20 something!!! Their “CORE 4 & Good Leads the Way” Company mantra & commercials do NOT seem to gel with what they are doing in reality. I’ve also heard their Maintenance Workers have ALSO NOT reached an agreement & it’s MORE of the same tactics. REMEMBER Flight Attendants are NOT paid on the ground for check-in, briefings, boarding & receive pocket change when they are “holding” with passengers during delays after it’s 1/2 hr past their departure time, waiting at the airport between flts & finally during deplaning. They are paid for “FLIGHT TIME” ONLY! This is something ALL Flight Attendants are asking for. IF they can spend $$$$$$ on NEW dishes, glasses, linens, caviar, fancy wine, champagne, various other things, usually for cabins that DO NOT include Economy, they can pay their Flight Attendants a wage where they can pay rent, buy food, provide for their families, etc. I DO NOT feel CEO’s that come & go who have NOTHING REALLY VESTED in a Company vs a Companies EMPLOYEES who have been their MANY MANY YEARS LINGER THAN AN MANAGEMENT. They have employees there 20+ years some over 60!!! Their Employee's are WHAT MAKE THE COMPANY. United has had Mr. Kirby is the 9th CEO since the mid 1990’s & became CEO in July 2020, he’s JUNIOR in a company like United…
I would actually love if you actually just interviewed Sara Nelson
Interviewd = Waterboarded
People are tired of the constant union drama with these airline employees. This kind of action wouldn’t be tolerated at any major corporation.
How about they focus on things such as as good service for a change?
Let the flaming begin.
People are tired of United stalling contract negotiations for years on and demanding concessions when no major is doing this. Times have changed for employees and it will be tolerated the flight attendants have been suspended with pay and will return to work shortly. United can’t do sht about it and they should just pay their workers, it’s not hard!
United being blasted on all social media outlets for stalling contract negotiations and demanding...
People are tired of United stalling contract negotiations for years on and demanding concessions when no major is doing this. Times have changed for employees and it will be tolerated the flight attendants have been suspended with pay and will return to work shortly. United can’t do sht about it and they should just pay their workers, it’s not hard!
United being blasted on all social media outlets for stalling contract negotiations and demanding concessions is not a good look for United. It was only a matter of time until they were exposed!
Agreed, enough with this stuff. Sick and tired of them.
Honest question, and this isn’t flaming. How can we provide better service if they keep slashing positions and adding more seats? Polaris has 3 flight attendants on certain aircraft (767L) that’s 50 Polaris seats. So a full Polaris service and taking care of the pilots, you cannot provide exceptional service with so many passengers and so little dedicated flight attendants. “Provide better service” they want to minimize the callout, example it’s 2 am and they...
Honest question, and this isn’t flaming. How can we provide better service if they keep slashing positions and adding more seats? Polaris has 3 flight attendants on certain aircraft (767L) that’s 50 Polaris seats. So a full Polaris service and taking care of the pilots, you cannot provide exceptional service with so many passengers and so little dedicated flight attendants. “Provide better service” they want to minimize the callout, example it’s 2 am and they call that they need you at the airport at 6 am, they want to make it 3 hours versus 4. How can you provide good service when you can’t even get proper rest? What if you live in Newark and have to get to LaGuardia?
I know you don’t care, I know you think all flight attendants do is complain, we want YOU to be happy so you treat us like humans. We don’t want 15 hour plus duty days (that we don’t get paid for delays, boarding) we are literally doing wonders with the little dignity we are getting.
If there’s a delay I’m WITH YOU, I’m the face that’s getting yelled at while the pilots hide in the cockpit, but I need to smile while not getting paid a cent and paying up to $103 for a uber at late arrivals.
If more union members showed up to this protest, perhaps they wouldn’t be in this predicament.
UNLESS you are a flight attendant at UA you have ZERO CLUE at what goes on there.
Constant harassment and toxic work environment, age discrimination, a contract that’s not worth the paper that’s written on …flight attendants sleeping in their cars and on food stamps while United rolls out a ridiculous new uniform that has been plagued with nothing but problems, new crockery silverware and glassware that wasn’t needed and this amazing new interior...
UNLESS you are a flight attendant at UA you have ZERO CLUE at what goes on there.
Constant harassment and toxic work environment, age discrimination, a contract that’s not worth the paper that’s written on …flight attendants sleeping in their cars and on food stamps while United rolls out a ridiculous new uniform that has been plagued with nothing but problems, new crockery silverware and glassware that wasn’t needed and this amazing new interior in airplanes that are short staffed with the underpaid flight attendants working on year 4 with an expired contract.
Mr Kirby is despised by his front line employees who he has zero regard for …how is that ever going to end well?
Maybe he wants to take a leaf out of Gordon Bethunes playbook?
Then quit working at such a terrible place. Are you not talented enough to do anything else with your life?
I suspect it’s less to do with qualifications and more about poor-mouthing to push a union narrative.
Yet you’re still working there. What should we infer from that?
OldgrumpyTrumper stfu they still work there most likely because of seniority and pay. The longer you stay at an airline the better the schedule you hold and the pay goes up. Except Kirby is blocking the pay increases and has been lining his pockets. Keep on supporting trump, Trumptard
Then dear god, quit and work someplace better at a higher salary. If they find that perfect job, it’s a win/win. If they don’t find that perfect job, then they aren’t worth what they thought!
Then quit, you lazy waitress. We all hate you. Seriously, we all hope you get fired and that you never get another job.
You have ruined so many family holidays, meeting prep flights, honeymoons, and anniversaries.
YOU are the reason thousands of people's lives are worse. You're the worst, you're scum, and you deserve to punished.
Sometimes I think you’re all the same troll. I hope you get help and don’t off yourse
Oh stfu with your dramatics and attention seeking. You sound like a 10 year old boy having a tantrum just so he can have attention.
Oh France Gall! You think flight attendants cancel flights? Delay them? You think we have that power, oh honey! We are the reason thousands of lives are worse? Damn I never knew we have so much power! Thank you I hadn’t thought of myself as so powerful to create such a bitter troll like you! ❤️
Hahaha no surprise there..when your having a heart attack or seizure from your daily Viagra on the airplane …hope none of those “waitresses” breaks out the IED …calls MEDLINK or attempts to save your pitiful life….or when someone’s phone overheats and causes “thermal runaway” at 35000 ft is your sorry ass donning a PBE or other life saving equipment to save a catastrophe….yup waitress in the sky…your ignorant and it shows.
If it has been 4 years in contract negotiations, and the flight attendant's are working without a contract, why hasn't United brought in mediators to settle this ??? That is shameful. A dozen or so Flight attendant's being boisterous at a Company meeting does not violate Labor Law ,and is protected activity.
It doesn't violate labor law but violates company rules of conduct, which under any labor contract are enforceable to the disciplinary process outlined in the contract. APFA with union shirts to recurrent training was one thing - that was an event they were invited to with a dress code, and yeah, management tried to prohibit specific shirts which was wrong. And that's fine, but if those F/As came into recurrent with signs and started screaming...
It doesn't violate labor law but violates company rules of conduct, which under any labor contract are enforceable to the disciplinary process outlined in the contract. APFA with union shirts to recurrent training was one thing - that was an event they were invited to with a dress code, and yeah, management tried to prohibit specific shirts which was wrong. And that's fine, but if those F/As came into recurrent with signs and started screaming and chanting to disrupt class they'd be sent back out the door or removed and trespassed.
These UA flight attendants have a right to their message and to have it heard. But disrupting a company meeting to which they were NOT invited (on private premises who can trespass them and file charges if it wants to) is not only against rules of conduct but isn't seeming to come across well to anybody but the other flight attendants.
Biggest error people make about unions is that unions prevent you from being fired. No, they just outline the path you have to follow to do it.
Doubt it, they will be back on the schedule next month. Get over yourself
United FA need to slow down and make sure they follow every company rule and regulation before boarding and take-off(I bet there are a lot rules that get ignoredfor convenience). And if you don't feel well, stay home, that way you ensure public safety.
Heuhhh? What are referring to, specifically? You bet what??? Is D for Deny or Demon?
Another underhanded union tactic: punish paying customers so they get less for their money. That’s a path to success!
I agree with your opinion. They should have done this outside, not inside. Write letters to CEO, news outlets, etc but do not go into a private meeting.
Are you slow? Do you think they didn’t already try these things?! Google it actually
If you think they didn’t try these things after four years you’re crazy!!!
They should be fired. If the union wants to go on strike it can do so. Trying to harm a company event without an official work action. They should have no concern about termination
Speaking of facts (your username...), the fact is that it is illegal for the union to strike until they have been released from negotiations by the National Mediation Board (NMB,) after which a 30-day cooling off period is required. Airline workers are covered by the Railway Labor Act and cannot just strike on a whim.
How about you google or YouTube the process for flight attendants to strike in The United States before leaving comments showing you don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
I fly United first or business class regularly. This action by flight attendants is unacceptable! Fire them!! They have zero right to disrupt in this manner!!
Guess what? United doesn’t give af about you. Only thing they care about is getting your money. These flight attendants won’t be fired.
A fine example of FAFO. And we're in the FO stage.
Personally, I have no sympathy here because if I behaved this way at my job I'd be fired too. With no chance for an unemployment claim either.
Great news. It’s long past time that unions see consequences when, despite Nelson’s claims, they or their members cross the line. You raise an interesting point: was this sanctioned and organized by the union? Assuming this event was not open to the public, forcing their way in is trespassing; being an employee does not mean you have access to all corporate events. If this is illegal trespass and the union was an accomplice, I would...
Great news. It’s long past time that unions see consequences when, despite Nelson’s claims, they or their members cross the line. You raise an interesting point: was this sanctioned and organized by the union? Assuming this event was not open to the public, forcing their way in is trespassing; being an employee does not mean you have access to all corporate events. If this is illegal trespass and the union was an accomplice, I would love to see the Labor and Justice Departments pursue any relevant legal responses. It’s long overdue to strongly push back on unions, regardless of industry.
This likely did not help their case with the NMB.
Its only trespassing if they were asked to leave and refused. Were they asked to leave?
Another pathetic Trumper! You’re beneath us all and something we whipe our butts with. Disgusting!
Committing a crime is not protected activity. Fire them and anyone who can't provide good service.
American consumers have put up with bad service due to union nonsense for too long! If United were smart, they would fire every union member and outsource as Qantas has done a number of times.
We, those of us who pay for premium cabins, would reward them with additional business if the new hires provide better service than the union activists.
You can't treat people like shit and expect them to provide a good service. Virtually all European legacy airlines are unionised and they deliver substantially better service than the crap we see on US airlines. Why? Because their staff gets fair working conditions and in return the airlines are able to hire high quality employees. The idea of improving service by removing employee protections is ridiculous.
If they don’t feel their job meets their standards, why are they still in that job? We just came out of a period of significant job mobility. The fact that they did not move on tells us something.
Flying is a career, not just a job.
It’s called seniority you idiot! The longer you stay the better your seniority gets and you will hold a better schedule over time. Plus the flight benefits and many are waiting on retro pay. Starting over means starting from the bottom in terms of the pay and schedule. United is number #2 in profits so there is no reason they should have the lowest paid flight attendants and Scott Kirby is the highest paid CEO. You Trump supports are idiots!
From Europe, I have been in a union over 30 years.
It has protected me from job losses and furloughs, negotiated annual pay increased higher than the company initially proposed.
Protected my pension, working hours including flexibility and a private heath scheme.
This is because European unions are far more powerful in Europe. Better protected.
The flight attendant behaviour was completely unacceptable. This was an important media and product launch event, which is not a time to storm in and interrupt. Protesting outside would be fine but they crossed the line. United crew definitely need a new contract but that is (hopefully) getting worked through in Chicago.
Au contraire.... The. perfect venue & timing for such activity. UA has had 4 years to avoid this and the union is all but impotent to strike by the antiquated Railway Labor Act.
Legality of what labor can expect is one thing. It is quite another to realize that United is a service business. Its employees can destroy in months what the company has taken years to build. The airline is full of examples of labor discord that has crippled airlines.
Unions might be shooting for the moon and management clutching its purse but absent a reality check, United could watch as much business go to competitors as American has seen in recent years
Seems like it was the perfect time based on the attention and chatter it generated.
Its alright folks. No matter what anybody thinks, this was a Union-organized strategy. And greedy scott kirby whom has given himself billions of dollars in raises to himself, had it coming. :) They will be fine.
Billions of dollars?
We are fighting for our lives a lot of you cannot conceptualize this. We work like dogs for this company and at the beginning I was promised a lot and this company never once delivered. I am financing Groceries through karna while Scott Kirby buys his 3rd yacht off of my labor. “Pick another job” I am still paying off a loan given to me by this company after training because I went 1 month...
We are fighting for our lives a lot of you cannot conceptualize this. We work like dogs for this company and at the beginning I was promised a lot and this company never once delivered. I am financing Groceries through karna while Scott Kirby buys his 3rd yacht off of my labor. “Pick another job” I am still paying off a loan given to me by this company after training because I went 1 month without pay after working 6 days a week for FREE!!!!! Look up indentured servitude. PUNCH UP!
Why don’t you change jobs if it’s so bad? If these claims are accurate, I would have been gone a long time ago.
Go where? There's not a single employer in this country that doesn't overwork and underpay their employees. Those at the top continue to see their salaries grow exponentially while the rest of us are lucky to afford rent in a studio apartmment and ramen noodles while working two full time jobs.
Then go back on welfare and smoke weed all day.
@Twipenne There’s the talking point. “Every job is underpaid and overworked.” That sounds a lot like what someone who doesn’t want to work hard would say. When everything is a problem, it suggest that YOU are the problem. When one makes themselves valuable enough to an employer, that person will be qualified for those higher paying jobs.
@AGrumpyOldMan_GA
From your username, you grew up when everything was much cheaper and a dollar went a lot farther. @Twipenne is more right than wrong here, median employee wages have stagnated compared to the cost of living for decades, while C-suite and upper managerial compensation has exploded. I'm personally very lucky in that I got through college with no debt thanks to GA's Hope Scholarship plus some money from family, and after college got...
@AGrumpyOldMan_GA
From your username, you grew up when everything was much cheaper and a dollar went a lot farther. @Twipenne is more right than wrong here, median employee wages have stagnated compared to the cost of living for decades, while C-suite and upper managerial compensation has exploded. I'm personally very lucky in that I got through college with no debt thanks to GA's Hope Scholarship plus some money from family, and after college got a job that I've been working ever since with a small but healthy software company and I'm compensated well and treated well.
My fiance was not so lucky, she's overworked by UPS and under threat of another major layoff, and even then she earns 1/3 what I do. Her takehome would barely be enough for a flophouse apartment in our area if she were still single, otherwise she'd have to live upwards of 90 minutes outside of Atlanta to afford a decent place, despite growing up in what are now expensive and very desirable neighborhoods around Decatur. Even with our combined income we can't afford to live there. This is the reality most Millennial and Gen Z are dealing with, and it's a generational blind spot that Boomers and Gen X can't seem to wrap their heads around. Where in the 1970s-90s median home prices were 2-3x median household income, now median home prices are 6x median household income or higher, depending on the city.
Boo hoo! Then change jobs. Its not rocket science!
Fighting for your lives? Is somebody trying to kill you? Easy on the drama twinkles.
If you are "fighting for our lives," I assume you are a more junior FA. UA is going to sign a deal that costs them $X. Your union will insist on a contract that will split that in a way that gives the lion share to more senior FAs. UA would gladly (I assume) agree to a contract that is less skewed, but cost them the same $X. So, your struggles are caused by UA,...
If you are "fighting for our lives," I assume you are a more junior FA. UA is going to sign a deal that costs them $X. Your union will insist on a contract that will split that in a way that gives the lion share to more senior FAs. UA would gladly (I assume) agree to a contract that is less skewed, but cost them the same $X. So, your struggles are caused by UA, not the union? I guess they have succeeded: the union screws the less powerful for the more powerful and gets those on the losing end to blame UA. I truly wish you the best a hope your union agrees to a contract that treats all FAs fairly.
You're so incredibly lazy.
There's 10,000 people who would do your job for 10 dollars an hour. I hope you get fired and you end up homeless.
I *hate* you. You ruined flying for all of us. You lazy, entitled cows.
It is not acceptable for a company to disregard its workers and their rights. Sometimes, people have to resort to things outside the box.
Workers are already screwed by the complicated system of money and power. They have limited resources to force companies to settle contracts.
These brave crewmembers should not be investigated or disciplined. The company …. Needs ot be disciplined for not coming to the table ………FAIRLY. It’s never fair for workers.
Or, UA is being reasonable and the union is not. Could be either, and I bet you have no inside information on the negotiations.
The United employees have the inside information and if you actually follow along you would see United demanded concessions across the board and the union said no to it. United has been doing this for years and it’s how they stall for as long as possible.
Great decision by United. These unions need a check on their "power". Fully support
The union organized it :)
I don't understand why anybody would think that flight attendant's actions are not acceptable. They're getting royally screwed by United and have every right to protest an event. Good for the fas and shame on the CEO of United. 5 years without a contract is disgusting. Do whatever it takes to get what you deserve.
Exactly Scott Kirby is one vile creature who only cares about himself. He doesn’t take care of his people. It’s sad how Republicans act like this
Well Ben, I will no longer be a reader. Taking sides with the FAs makes you not even close to journalist. The flight attendant leadership in United was derelict in their duty when they turned down nearly a 25% raise nearly 3 years ago because they were sure that Joe Biden would fix their problems and then again they turned down offers from the company because they were sure, I was going to fix their problems and now they're screwed which they sorely deserve.
To be fair, this is not a news site, but an opinion blog. He’s not a journalist. I think he does a good of striking a fair balance.
How were you going to fix the problem? And where is this offer you speak of? did the FA know about these raise offers?
If you were *actually* a reader you'd *know* that Ben isn't a journalist.
This was organized by the AFA. All the Trump supporters fall back and in line!
United is demanding a lot of concessions. Concessions that are unreasonable and that other airlines don’t implement . If Kirby was negotiating in good faith , they would just offer a march to what American offer to the flight attendant , but they are not . And they feel confident on the current administration .
Greed.
"If Kirby was negotiating in good faith"
The perfect response of an idiot. If you don't agree to our demands, you're not negotiating in good faith.
No one is going to agree to his demands when they are unreasonable and an effort to stall for as long as possible. The company is making record profits. You’re the idiot!
Clearly unprofessional behavior. These FAs should be suspended.
Protected Union activity
Suspended for what? Violating their contract....oh wait...
They can still be punished (with the path of discipline outlined in the contract) for violating company rules in a company handbook.
Have u been working without a contract for over 4 years...umm no..so shut your pie hole. Don't criticize what u know nothing about
I don’t have a contract. I work at the pleasure of my employer. I’m not entitled to anything beyond being compensated for my work that I sell to them. If I don’t like the arrangement, I leave. It’s not a hard concept; I’ve changed jobs multiple times to find something better.
I bet if it was you you would be right there with them. First do your research see how the FA are being treated. I applaud them
I wouldn’t be so stupid as to do something blatantly against company rules (which I agreed to) then make demands.
I am not in a union. I prefer to negotiate for myself based on my merits which has me with better benefits than some others like more vacation time than seniority would dictate, a contract of sorts relating to what class of service I get for a level of required travel which has me...
I wouldn’t be so stupid as to do something blatantly against company rules (which I agreed to) then make demands.
I am not in a union. I prefer to negotiate for myself based on my merits which has me with better benefits than some others like more vacation time than seniority would dictate, a contract of sorts relating to what class of service I get for a level of required travel which has me up front more often than not, and adjustable compensation each year based on how the company does. I’d rather do that than have someone else getting me the same as someone who doesn’t perform.
For once, United listened to my suggestion.
And they will withdraw your suggestion just as quickly
o
Companies should not be required to contract with unions as the only option. Everyone operates according to what they can negotiate in a market, and if the union can attract people to its ranks then good on it, and those members can strike. But the airline (and any company) should have the right to hire outside of a union if it wishes.
The cost for a company with already a unionized workforce to hire tens of thousands of new ones and train them to fit the company requirements will cost a lot more then just renegotiating with the union
If your point was as simple as you made it sound, unions won’t exist and all the companies around the world would do what you said
A perfect recipe for more labour strife !
A perfect recipe for freedom.
They should absolutely be fired.
You should absolutely mind your business.... l
You too these are their bread and butter. Maybe one day you will be fired
But they won’t be :)
The union knows that and that’s why it was organized by the AFA
They have confirmed it
United flight attendants all need to get the flu for a week or two.
Sara Nelson just informed us it’s a protected union activity…
She had time at the latest UAW rally?
And what is her qualification or jurisdiction to decide that? Trespassing isn't a protected activity. It's a crime. Nelson lies as soon as her mouth opens.
Unfortunately nothing is going to happen until the NLRB declares an impasse triggering a 30-day cooling off period before the FAs can start a strike. During that period is when the real negotiations take place. And in this current political environment, the NLRB is likely going to continue to take their sweet time on the issue. So in the meantime, everyone suffers the consequences.
Since the AFA helped organize it I doubt they will be fired. If a contract isn’t agreed to soon I imagine this is only the beginning of United being blasted especially since way more people are aware now.
So is this considered crossing the picket line or picket crossing the line?
Ben, have you ever met @JonNYC in person? I've always been so curious about how he is such an insider. He's like the Adam Schefter of aviation, except a million times more reliable (and less obnoxious) lol. I'm sure he's private, or else he'd likely have a blog or other media, but a blog on him and his background/insight would be fascinating.
Plot twist. Ben is @JonNYC.
Ben and I have met, Etihad first class, sheer happenstance— just as the script would have it!
Enjoy your next career at WalMart.
JoeAmateur is already there waiting.
This is actually a very interesting question, whether you meant to ask it or not. What would FAs do if they weren't doing this? The average FA certainly has a better job outlook than a standard Walmart associate. I'm thinking they would be heavy into the food service industry and perhaps retail store management. Or not work because the spouse is the bread winner.
Ummm most Walmart associates do better than you think. Lots get stock options.
And @ Walmart pays for college degrees FOC, very cheap insurance, etc etc etc…and other benefits that no one knows about…just sayin
I bet if it was you you would be right there with them. First do your research see how the FA are being treated. I applaud them you to nothing wrong with working at Walmart you should be ashamed degrading worker
Enjoy being an inbred Trumptard
I don't understand why you'd think this is acceptable. If they did the same in a company recurrent training session (disrupting it to a halt screaming and holding signs) it would be the same thing. If I walked into a meeting room at headquarters of my company in a meeting I wasn't invited to and started yelling, I'd be fired on the spot. So would just about anybody who works in any sort of professional...
I don't understand why you'd think this is acceptable. If they did the same in a company recurrent training session (disrupting it to a halt screaming and holding signs) it would be the same thing. If I walked into a meeting room at headquarters of my company in a meeting I wasn't invited to and started yelling, I'd be fired on the spot. So would just about anybody who works in any sort of professional role. They went uninvited into an event with members of the public and disrupted it. Anything but punishment would be unacceptable. I am pro-labor, but you have to still follow the rules of conduct for the job and do your job.
At least from Ben's article, I don't think any of the flight attendants thought they'd just get scot-free away from this. It seems obvious enough to me that they did it fully realizing they might be suspended or fired, since after all this isn't a legally protected strike, but they went through with it because they feel strongly that management isn't acting fairly or in good faith.
I'm confused with your take. When do you think is an acceptable time for unions to have a demonstration?
@Justin Dev
To my understanding, legally speaking, it's when the union has notified management that they will be striking in whatever timeframe is legally allowed, then going on strike in that period. Barging in to a private event would be considered trespassing, which was illegal when civil rights activists did it in the '60s and is still illegal now. Part of the reason that form of protesting is effective is because the people who...
@Justin Dev
To my understanding, legally speaking, it's when the union has notified management that they will be striking in whatever timeframe is legally allowed, then going on strike in that period. Barging in to a private event would be considered trespassing, which was illegal when civil rights activists did it in the '60s and is still illegal now. Part of the reason that form of protesting is effective is because the people who do it usually understand that consequences could include getting fired or jail time, so people generally only do it when they feel very strongly about the issue they're bringing awareness to.
@Dusty,
Can it be considered a private event when they are employees of the company holding the event?
Were they invited? A company can hold a meeting or event and invite only those they want to attend you know. Anyone else is a trespasser.
Yes. What can of question is that?
Yes. It was a private event. For one, not on company property so actually it wouldn't be United it would be the venue trespassing the crew members. Employees can't walk into just any shareholder meeting without owning shares or an open invitation from the board. They can't even necessarily go to any company facility without having a business need (as determined by the business) to gain access. I had to be escorted in at headquarters...
Yes. It was a private event. For one, not on company property so actually it wouldn't be United it would be the venue trespassing the crew members. Employees can't walk into just any shareholder meeting without owning shares or an open invitation from the board. They can't even necessarily go to any company facility without having a business need (as determined by the business) to gain access. I had to be escorted in at headquarters of my employer when attending meetings even though I worked there for years before moving to a field location.
flight attendants are governed by the railway labor act, which hasn’t been updated, in decades. When the act forbids a group from taking work actions except under strict rules, and when the government also forbids said group from taking work action even when they’ve met all the requirements to do so, the airlines take this as an opportunity to stall, and not bargain, in good faith. It’s been almost 5yrs, since a raise, and almost...
flight attendants are governed by the railway labor act, which hasn’t been updated, in decades. When the act forbids a group from taking work actions except under strict rules, and when the government also forbids said group from taking work action even when they’ve met all the requirements to do so, the airlines take this as an opportunity to stall, and not bargain, in good faith. It’s been almost 5yrs, since a raise, and almost 10yrs since a new contract, what actions do you suppose one takes. Multiple action and protest have been conducted just as was suggested outside airports over the past 4years with no results. Who then holds these corporations accountable for intentionally not negotiating in good faith, which is supposed to be prohibited? Especially when the CEO accepted a $34mil salary? While handing out crumbs for profit sharing. Typically airline contracts of the past has been every 4yrs, it’s gradually increased to 5yrs, so by the length of time these negotiations have taken place, those Flight Attendants have worked a whole CBA. That’s a ten year contract back handedly. It should be criminal.
What's your position at United headquarters? We know. Nice try.
Good.
It's definitely warranted, and I say that as somebody who supports the right of labor to organize. Civil disobedience is an effective method to protest and raise awareness for an issue, but part of the reason it's effective is because it usually does come with real consequences.
It is hard to believe they thought anything different would have happened.
Did the union consider using actors w fake name tags?
First smart post from Tim :)
"Did the union consider using actors w fake name tags?"
You considered it just yesterday:
"btw, who is to say that the union didn't hire people to stage the protest, providing them w/ UA uniforms?"
...and you seem oddly invested in this narrative.
-You, yesterday
It was just reported yesterday.
The union threw its own members overboard.
Btw WN pilots and others did this but at employee events.
Highlights how fast United will fall if they don’t fork over some serious cash not just to the FAs but also mechanics. And then other unionized ground workers
@Tim Dunn,
You talk fatalistically like this is some massive hill to climb that will never get accomplished and will put UA at some significant disadvantage once they agree on a contract. When history tells us that the US carriers all end up having similar agreements.
Labor Agreements are like a dance. Labor always publicly complains about evil management, and management keeps their traps shut and doesn't negotiate in the media. So we never know...
@Tim Dunn,
You talk fatalistically like this is some massive hill to climb that will never get accomplished and will put UA at some significant disadvantage once they agree on a contract. When history tells us that the US carriers all end up having similar agreements.
Labor Agreements are like a dance. Labor always publicly complains about evil management, and management keeps their traps shut and doesn't negotiate in the media. So we never know where things stand until they put it to a vote.
Yes. We do know.
United will be much less profitable or they will have lots of labor unrest.
65,000 unionized UA employees in 6 workgroups are working under amendable contracts or will be before the month is over.
United’s labor costs could go up by $1 billion per year. That isn’t even a double digit increase and yet signing for many recent contracts has involved double digit pay raises.
United mechanics...
Yes. We do know.
United will be much less profitable or they will have lots of labor unrest.
65,000 unionized UA employees in 6 workgroups are working under amendable contracts or will be before the month is over.
United’s labor costs could go up by $1 billion per year. That isn’t even a double digit increase and yet signing for many recent contracts has involved double digit pay raises.
United mechanics are just as upset.
Add in that the DOT may be whacking EWR capacity by 100 plus flights per day and UA could be seeing huge cost increases and revenue decreases. The scenario UA faces is very serious
It is not what any other airline faces
you are such a broken record. I'm not going to refute your statements because you're just making conjecture.
but once again, you conveniently forgot to mention the re-negotiation of the Chase Agreement. Which might will have a significant impact on UA's bottom line.
But you'll twist yourself into knots again, and the cycle DL comparisons will continue.
Tiresome
EWR is kind of the point I think. Forget about the FA activists for a second - if you were the union, and UA was in the headlines every day because of how much of a disaster EWR is, and Kirby is in the headlines every day sucking up to Trump/FAA because they want to do something with B6, this is kind of the time to pile on, no? (I mean, other than years ago...
EWR is kind of the point I think. Forget about the FA activists for a second - if you were the union, and UA was in the headlines every day because of how much of a disaster EWR is, and Kirby is in the headlines every day sucking up to Trump/FAA because they want to do something with B6, this is kind of the time to pile on, no? (I mean, other than years ago of course when they should have gotten this deal done). I’m sure the union will take care of their stunt actors one way or another.
Tim, I ask you because I know that I will receive a serious answer to my question.
You use the term United “Mechanics”, is this the generally accepted term for those technical staff employed to maintain the aircraft?
In the UK we have to call most of the ground staff Technicians of the appropriate trade group, i.e. Engine Technicians, Avionics Technicians, etc. To be called a mechanic is to belittle the status of the appropriate trade discipline.
Yes. I believe they are technically called technicians
And DTWNYC
We know about the chase agreement but not a single other airline has as many open labor contracts plus the prospect of losing billions per year in revenue depending on how offended the DOT was for being told that removing EWR slot controls was a mistake. Who seriously thought that would turn out well when the evidence that the CO/UA EWR hub has...
Yes. I believe they are technically called technicians
And DTWNYC
We know about the chase agreement but not a single other airline has as many open labor contracts plus the prospect of losing billions per year in revenue depending on how offended the DOT was for being told that removing EWR slot controls was a mistake. Who seriously thought that would turn out well when the evidence that the CO/UA EWR hub has been over scheduled for years which is the reason for the poor EWR on time. Throw in a planned runway closure and nowhere near enough flights being cancelled and there has been endless bad news for United
Yes the AFA offered a few up as sacrifices. The mechanics/technicians are upset.
United is in the worst place of all US airlines right now
Some of us saw that they were skating on thin ice and said so
Well
Two months ago you were telling everyone that American still had soooo many open contracts from covid (they have none open)
So I think you can calm down with your proclaimed knowledge on the matter.
“ United is in the worst place of all US airlines right now”
If you weren’t constantly claiming the sky is falling for everyone but delta, you might have some small degree of credibility but you don’t have...
Well
Two months ago you were telling everyone that American still had soooo many open contracts from covid (they have none open)
So I think you can calm down with your proclaimed knowledge on the matter.
“ United is in the worst place of all US airlines right now”
If you weren’t constantly claiming the sky is falling for everyone but delta, you might have some small degree of credibility but you don’t have that credibility. Plus, isn’t this normally your stupid thing to say about AA?
And American’s profits fell. You missed it?
You need to make up your mind about who is in the worst place. Of course United will have a drop in their profits with new labor agreements. Who said they wouldn't. Delta would have a drop in their profits if they were Unionized more heavily.
Your normal attempt to find new arguments to misdirect when you lose others never stops being funny.
Bro just cheerleads for delta and trolls united people. I enjoyed it when he was banned here but then he infiltrated other blogs.
Most people here want to have constructive conversations about the industry, and don’t care who “wins”. Maybe if Tim offered equal parts criticism to delta people might not react so badly to the novels he writes.
Reading for weeks (months) about the same talking points is as if he’s a rabid...
Bro just cheerleads for delta and trolls united people. I enjoyed it when he was banned here but then he infiltrated other blogs.
Most people here want to have constructive conversations about the industry, and don’t care who “wins”. Maybe if Tim offered equal parts criticism to delta people might not react so badly to the novels he writes.
Reading for weeks (months) about the same talking points is as if he’s a rabid dog salivating for United to fall back from gaining (surpassed DL in some areas) and it’s really flippin odd.
Delta leads the industry in pay to its people. THAT is why they have so few unions.
And United has more contracts out than AA did before it settled w them all. The impact will be much greater. United has been profiting from the lack of new labor contracts. They will either pay up and profits will drop or labor unrest will grow. And it’s not like AA has great labor relations or customer...
Delta leads the industry in pay to its people. THAT is why they have so few unions.
And United has more contracts out than AA did before it settled w them all. The impact will be much greater. United has been profiting from the lack of new labor contracts. They will either pay up and profits will drop or labor unrest will grow. And it’s not like AA has great labor relations or customer service even with new contracts.
AA can’t figure out how to use its NYC assets while United can’t figure out how to work within the constraints of the airport it chose for its single airport hub.
Delta has been closing the gap in NYC and United knows its advantage is about ready to go up in smoke.
The FAA will cut EWR capacity and the hub United operated on March 31 is history
No other airline faces huge increases in labor costs and revenue declines the latter large because of how UA mismanaged schedules for the runway reconstruction project
And there will be no merger w B6.
You just don’t get it.
Actually, I do. And that is what scares you
No I’m not scared of a key board warrior.
You’re just a troll.
I am not a troll but I do bring facts and reality which some don’t want to hear
United management has been on a me centered growth addiction that is detached from reality for years
They have endlessly trashed competitors while claiming to be just like Delta and yet Delta has never gone as long without raises for its people as many UA people have gone. United’s profits of recent years have come...
I am not a troll but I do bring facts and reality which some don’t want to hear
United management has been on a me centered growth addiction that is detached from reality for years
They have endlessly trashed competitors while claiming to be just like Delta and yet Delta has never gone as long without raises for its people as many UA people have gone. United’s profits of recent years have come from the backs of most of its employees. Delta has led the industry in pay increases post COVID
The FAA didn’t fail 2 years ago but EWR failed because United over schedule EWR.
And then Kirby has had the nerve to tell the nation repeatedly that the FAA made a mistake in removing slot controls at EWR when really UA underutilized its slots while controlling 70% of EWR flights. Does anyone really think that telling your regulator that they screwed up would end well?
And now he is convinced that the DoJ will let United steamroll B6 to get back into JFK even though the DoJ denied AA which is smaller than UA in NYC a lesser arrangement.
The only conclusion one can come to is that UA management is so drunk w their own success that they not only cannot see their own pitfalls but lash out at anyone that dares to challenge their narrative
They have had a great run. Reality is going to set in big time
Sounds like a vestige of the ole British Empire & class distinctions ! ... lol
Sorry, above comment was meant for @AeroB13a's question of British vs. American references to the mechanic title ....