The president of American Airlines’ pilots union is in no uncertain terms telling members that they should show up late for their flights by using standard security lines, in order to prove a point to both airlines and the TSA.
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Pilots are frustrated with Known Crewmember program
With the Known Crewmember program (KCM), eligible pilots and flight attendants can skip the security lines at airports, and enter the sterile area of the airport without being screened. The intent is that this saves time for crews, and allows the TSA to better allocate its resources to passengers, who generally pose a greater risk.
The thing is, when crews use a Known Crewmember checkpoint, they can still randomly be subjected to secondary screening. It makes sense that there would be some element of surprise involved here, just to make sure crews aren’t trying to transport drugs, weapons, etc.
Over time we’ve increasingly seen (a very small percentage of) crew members abusing these checkpoints, and there have even been several reports of flight attendants trying to smuggle drugs through checkpoints.
As a result, the number of secondary screenings at Known Crewmember checkpoints has allegedly increased massively in recent months, to the point that sometimes people are getting secondary screening more often than not. While there are rumors that changes could be coming to Known Crewmember, nothing has been officially confirmed by the TSA.
And that brings us to the interesting way that one union representing pilots is telling members to deal with this.
What American’s pilots union is telling members
Ed Sicher is the President of the Allied Pilots Association (APA), representing American Airlines pilots. In a memo to all pilots on Thursday (as reported by Ross Feinstein), Sicher recommended that pilots start avoiding Known Crewmember checkpoints. He starts by explaining the problem:
“The word ‘expeditious’ can no longer be used in the same sentence as KCM. The KCM ‘privilege’ has become anything but due to the rising number of secondary screenings our pilots are being subjected to on a regular basis. It is not unusual for a pilot to be ‘randomly’ screened six or seven consecutive times. The rate of these screenings has increased to the point where expeditious screening at KCM has been replaced by unpredictable and in some cases lengthy delays.”
Sicher states that pilots used Known Crewmember checkpoints two million times in 2021, and only 17 problems were identified, some of which were minor infractions. In other words, he doesn’t think the increase in secondary screenings is appropriate.
So, what does he recommend? Using the regular security lines, and not jumping ahead of any passengers in them:
“Since KCM no longer appears to be working as it was originally intended, it may be time for pilots to consider forgoing it completely until expedited screening becomes a reality again. Accordingly, I recommend using the standard passenger entry points for security screening when beginning and connecting on our sequences. For those who choose to do so, please do NOT jump in front of passengers who may also be harried and late due to the unpredictable nature of the TSA checkpoints.”
You might be thinking, “it’s so considerate that he’s telling pilots not to jump the line.” Employees are allowed to cut the line, so as you might expect, there’s a motive for that:
“By temporarily bypassing the KCM screening checkpoints, we will highlight to both the TSA and management the problems that have arisen with the system. Once KCM has been fixed to the point that it is once again a predictable means of expeditious security screening, I will be the first to encourage our pilots to exercise the privilege. Until then, you should consider utilizing traditional TSA screenings and wait in line with our passengers.”
There’s not much left to the imagination here. The way pilots would “highlight” this problem to management is when it impacts operational performance, so the intent here is to obviously have flights delayed, in hopes of getting airlines to pressure the TSA to reduce the number of secondary screenings at Known Crewmember checkpoints.
Bottom line
Pilots are frustrated by the number of secondary screenings that they’re getting at Known Crewmember checkpoints, which are intended to let them predictably zip through the airport. The Allied Pilots Association, representing American Airlines pilots, is encouraging members to forgo these checkpoints.
Rather the union is telling members to use the regular security lines and not skip anyone, in order to “highlight” the issue to both airlines and the TSA.
So if you do see an increase in the number of pilots in standard security lines, now you know why (however, something tells me most pilots won’t actually do this, because who would want to voluntarily deal with a TSA checkpoint?).
What do you make of the union’s approach to dealing with Known Crewmember checkpoint delays?
Sorry, the crew is certainly free to use the standard security lines, but if that makes them late, then they're late for work just the same as if they got up late or left late for the airport.
I have no investment in whether or not the crew has an expedited process, but I'm unimpressed by "trying to prove a point" by playing games.
Seems like an abuse and misuse of a union. Would make far more sense for the union, without public awareness, address these matters directly with the TDA to arrive at a meaningful method of dealing with the actual issues. Trying to weaponize a union is a way to undermine it's value and reputation.
Forget what thy get... Thy should be screened at the economy screening..when thy themselves won't reach flight on time we economy class would not miss flights due to horrible lines for security.. omg. The run and anxiety a common man faces..
I (pilot) haven’t used KCM in months. 80% of the time it’s a waste of time because we do the whole KCM ID check, wait for confirmation, then get sent to TSA precheck anyway. And it’s an 80% compounding system, so after a while it’s 100%. Might as well just go to precheck, which I’ve done for months now.
What an arrogant, whiny, childish prick! KCM is a privilege and so what if we have to experience extra screening. A few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us but KCM is still a great program. So to be a little child you would screw over the rest of your crew. The flight attendants are the ones who will suffer. We have to be there to board the flight and sit with...
What an arrogant, whiny, childish prick! KCM is a privilege and so what if we have to experience extra screening. A few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us but KCM is still a great program. So to be a little child you would screw over the rest of your crew. The flight attendants are the ones who will suffer. We have to be there to board the flight and sit with the passengers while not getting paid just so you children can throw a temper tantrum. There is nothing in our manual that says we are required to to cook your meals and get your coffee and water but we do it anyway for a good working environment. If you people start purposely delaying flights just to be immature and childish I assure you two can play that game. Expect to hear the words, "get it yourself" or "no", a lot. But hey the way some of you act I'm sure you already hear that at home! Jerk!!
You sound like the child. Kcm is a privilege? It was set up to expedite tsa but instead now it is 50% random. Btw the majority of infractions are from FA's. Guess us pilots can remember this when you need the jumpseat home.
KCM was never intended to be a privilege, it was made to reduce TSA times. After all, what are they checking us for? We literally have the controls in our hands, and a crash axe in our cockpits, we don’t need to smuggle weapons.
But if we can’t get to the jet to preflight we can’t board. Also, you get crews feel pressure to get out on time, meaning hurried checks or just skipping...
KCM was never intended to be a privilege, it was made to reduce TSA times. After all, what are they checking us for? We literally have the controls in our hands, and a crash axe in our cockpits, we don’t need to smuggle weapons.
But if we can’t get to the jet to preflight we can’t board. Also, you get crews feel pressure to get out on time, meaning hurried checks or just skipping checks entirely, making mistakes and possibly causing an accident all to avoid a flight attendant carrying a Swiss Army knife for the corkscrew? Not smart.
Because you could smuggle a gun and kill the other pilot or you could run drugs and continue to fuel the fentanyl epidemic killing countless other.
If you told me to "get it yourself" on my flight, I would have you removed and replaced. I have that authority as Captain.
Don't fly American
The other carriers are going to start doing same thing. We are all sick of it. We are flying your plane yet treated like criminals at TSA. We are fingerprinted several times and background checks often. Yet the people working on the ground around the aircraft are subject to very little security to be around your aircraft.
The general public aren't criminals and they go through security. People who apply fir certainly. Jobs often have to give fingerprints. Since you're reaching here, how about people who take random drug/alcohol screenings?.....you guys DO like to get hammered on layovers and show up the next morning half in the bag.....and it's usually a TSA guy who catches you. So actually, you ARE a threat and should be treated accordingly.
Or have TSA look at how Germans/Swiss/Austrians run their airports. I've never spent more than 5 minutes in a security queue there. Most of the time, there is no queue at all. Checking in on my phone takes longer than passing through security. Pilots just show up among regular people and don't need special procedures.
Freaking privileged airline pilots are whining and crying about having to get streamed once in a while. Talk about freaking privileged people
Yep, the number of randoms has increased by about twice yet the vast majority still get the KCM. The only point being proved is the AA pilot union does not care about increasing the wait timne of AA passengers. Your also correct in that members of your priviliged group have shown a willingness to use their trusted access to smuggle items and drugs. They also routinly try and take the bags and prohibited items of...
Yep, the number of randoms has increased by about twice yet the vast majority still get the KCM. The only point being proved is the AA pilot union does not care about increasing the wait timne of AA passengers. Your also correct in that members of your priviliged group have shown a willingness to use their trusted access to smuggle items and drugs. They also routinly try and take the bags and prohibited items of co-travelers with them while their co-traveler goes through screening and then return it to them in the sterile areas. So - sorry but there are very few saints here. Clean your own house folks. Also the airlines run / manage KCM and AA manages it for all.
Yes. Great. Cause flight delays and rescheduled flights so those already harried passengers passing through TSA without the expedited process have additional stress and difficulties. You wish to punish TSA by adding to the burdens of an already increasingly frustrated flying public and potentially increase the abhorrent behavior seen recently by angry passengers in increasing numbers. On behalf of the rest of your customers who follow not only the TSA protocols but the instructions of...
Yes. Great. Cause flight delays and rescheduled flights so those already harried passengers passing through TSA without the expedited process have additional stress and difficulties. You wish to punish TSA by adding to the burdens of an already increasingly frustrated flying public and potentially increase the abhorrent behavior seen recently by angry passengers in increasing numbers. On behalf of the rest of your customers who follow not only the TSA protocols but the instructions of crew members allow me to thank you in advance Mr out of touch union leader.
I'm sooooo tired of hearing pilots whine and complain about literally everything. They make bank. All this is gonna do is fuck over the passengers AND the gate agents (who've literally gotten NOTHING the last 2.5 years of dealing with shit from the pandemic). You pilots need to be humbled a bit. Tired of the entitled, arrogant attitudes y'all like to have.
Guess you can drive
I have a great Idea: transfer the known crew member program over to Clear then have a secondary clear post at every airport to fast track the security process
Can't agree with negative generalizations about pilots or about TSA, but pilots and flight crews are professionals who are responsible for hundreds of lives on every flight. They are also responsible to be at the gate on time ready to fly, as their union knows. Get to work on time and stop whining. Use your union to get more pay for standing in line. In the meantime, even Karen's can use TSA Pre or jump...
Can't agree with negative generalizations about pilots or about TSA, but pilots and flight crews are professionals who are responsible for hundreds of lives on every flight. They are also responsible to be at the gate on time ready to fly, as their union knows. Get to work on time and stop whining. Use your union to get more pay for standing in line. In the meantime, even Karen's can use TSA Pre or jump to the front if there are *occasional* unavoidable delays. Otherwise, deal with it, get fined or get fired.
Crews don't get paid a penny for any time other than when the plane door is closed. That's it, so no pay for time spent in airports or lines. It all comes down to max duty times and minimum rest times by federal law. Many times crews are scheduled the minimum 10 hours on the nose and cannot be a minute within or they are breaking regulations and rest rules.
As a crewmember myself, I can tell you that us pilots will ABSOLUTELY use the passenger entrance to security. In the case where you are the “chosen one,” that entails walking back up a long corridor and THEN entering the passenger line, which is actually more problematic than just using the passenger screening in the first place
I love how crew members getting randomly screened at an airport instead of just breezing by is a big concern in our privileged world. I remember reading multiple instances of airline crew members getting caught smuggling drugs through KCM. I even saw with my own eyes once a crew member try, because she got caught, to take something through for a random passenger that she just met in the line. I was hoping to not...
I love how crew members getting randomly screened at an airport instead of just breezing by is a big concern in our privileged world. I remember reading multiple instances of airline crew members getting caught smuggling drugs through KCM. I even saw with my own eyes once a crew member try, because she got caught, to take something through for a random passenger that she just met in the line. I was hoping to not be on that flight. How many other times had the crew member done that? Ultimately, it only takes one person to screw our up for everyone else. Deal with it. If your job isn’t giving you enough time to show up for your flight then that sounds like an issue your UNION needs to bring up to the airline.
“Multiple instances?” Out of how many tens of thousands of crewmembers? If it’s .000001% of the total, then random based on that number. In the meantime, enjoy missing your connections when flying because the crew from your originating flight crew was held up at security.
You appear to be trolling Jay but I believe are correct in that it is a small amount of the total causing the issue. Not that I've done the math but 19 persons out of about 2 million that day changed everything on 9-11 and caused all of this. No one gets a pass although some, like those allowed KCM, are pretty close to having it. Comparred to the past the pilots cheered when KCM...
You appear to be trolling Jay but I believe are correct in that it is a small amount of the total causing the issue. Not that I've done the math but 19 persons out of about 2 million that day changed everything on 9-11 and caused all of this. No one gets a pass although some, like those allowed KCM, are pretty close to having it. Comparred to the past the pilots cheered when KCM started and if the current radom percentage was what it started with they still would have cheered.
Maybe Sicher is abusing the advanced screening program. I would like to see him in the regular security line as well. Only takes one person to sabotage a flight, airline, entire aircraft full of people.
Like no TSA personal have smuggled stuff thru. Who checks them. They just constantly walk back and forth thru the security many times without being checked. I know. I flew for AA. One time some women just bypassed the security as TSA just waved her thru. I was in my uniform and asked who she was. They said she was one of them. I told them if I saw her on my plane I'd kick her off. They said I couldn't do that. I told them you want to bet.
Most people don't know that the 911 highjackers walked past security onto the aircraft wearing pilot uniforms.
Sorry, that’s BS. Look up the videos from the security cameras kn YT. None of them were waering any uniforms.
Stop spreading lies.
Wow - talk about BS. I've watched the videos more times than I can count and must have missed that. They, the 19 terrorists, did their homework and took advantage of the rules in place at that time and properly screened. Hopefully that comment of yours was not actually taught in a K-12 environment but even that would no longer surprise me.
Maybe don’t smuggle prohibited items through KCM maybe the “problem” wouldn’t have arisen.
Why don't you ask an El Al crew at ben gurian airport in Israel??
I work for TSA, and nobody should be so privileged to the additional screening when often drugs or firearms have been found. Just because you're a pilot or flight crew doesn't make you above or beyond additional screening. Just come earlier and stop complaining. You flight crew members are just as spoiled as a pre-check passenger.
Often?? There have been 2 million screenings and 17 total mostly incredibly minor infractions. I’d venture to say there have been more TSA infractions than that. Not to mention what is a pilot going to do? Get access to the cockpit?? Where I have a battle ax next to my hip??
I believe that we trust these men and women to get us safely from point A to point B all over our world.
They fly our children, our parents, business associates and our soldiers all over the world.
Be it on vacation, business , emergencies and wars.
I know that it takes time to get all of the pre-flight stuff on order and to get their gear put away and to get...
I believe that we trust these men and women to get us safely from point A to point B all over our world.
They fly our children, our parents, business associates and our soldiers all over the world.
Be it on vacation, business , emergencies and wars.
I know that it takes time to get all of the pre-flight stuff on order and to get their gear put away and to get comfortable before the flight. ( amd I want my pilots comfortable )
With that being said I think that our pilots and staff should have an express lane without being harrassed with all the bullshit.
I also want to say thanks to the pilots, co-pilots,flight engineers, and the rest of the crew that works diligently to keep us safe and comfortable .
Thanks guys and girls for a KOB well done. Keep up the good work and piss on the TSA.
GOOD! Pilots & crew should be checked in the same manner as passengers, so they could be SEEN in the same process as passengers. Pilots & crew should of course have the privilege of going to the front of the line 2B screened 1st so as 2B on board getting the plane ready 4 the flight.
Yes, yes, yes.... they wont do it but if they did. TsA would learn how to move things along faster. It really does make sense. Hate to be on that flight that gets delayed .... but if it helps the overall problem.
Fire all the US pulots and hire all ilegal aliens
It’s not just the pilots who get randomed for secondary- flight attendants as well. Got randomed 5 of the last 6 times I went to work. Very frustrating. Last time our delayed departure time was moved up but our hotel pick up time had already been rescheduled. We got to the airport- running late -no TSA for KCM- then when they showed up- 2 of us got randomed. I told the TSA officer we’d need...
It’s not just the pilots who get randomed for secondary- flight attendants as well. Got randomed 5 of the last 6 times I went to work. Very frustrating. Last time our delayed departure time was moved up but our hotel pick up time had already been rescheduled. We got to the airport- running late -no TSA for KCM- then when they showed up- 2 of us got randomed. I told the TSA officer we’d need to get to the front of the line since we were already late. She said no- I’m like, okay- whatever. I’ll get there when we get there. I literally ran all the way to the gate since they were holding boarding since all flight attendants have to be on board to start the boarding process (on an already oversold delayed flight).
Unfortunately system is broken for everybody.
What a crappy attitude from the pilots union. Inconvenience those that make your job possible. Just one more reason to not use airlines to travel ANYWHERE.
Totally ridiculous to make such a statement in the midst of high delays already. Have missed connections due to delays and now there is an idiot suggesting purposefully delaying flights?
Airlines will order them to get there earlier, to prevent delays.
It should be noted that the KCM was originally proposed by pilots for pilots. Predictably, the flight attendants cried “me too” and were subsequently allowed to us KCM. Also predictably, the overwhelming vast majority of violations are caused by FLight Attendants. And yet again predictably, it would be politically incorrect to single out the FA’s so the pilots must suffer through this indignity as well. Perhaps Captain Sicher is only injecting the implementation of common...
It should be noted that the KCM was originally proposed by pilots for pilots. Predictably, the flight attendants cried “me too” and were subsequently allowed to us KCM. Also predictably, the overwhelming vast majority of violations are caused by FLight Attendants. And yet again predictably, it would be politically incorrect to single out the FA’s so the pilots must suffer through this indignity as well. Perhaps Captain Sicher is only injecting the implementation of common sense to the situation, which I commend. TSA is an example of bureaucracy run amuck. Wasting the pilots time is only of importance when it costs the company. If pilots were being paid during security screenings you can rest assured they would be differentiated from the FA’s.
Just in case someone didn't feel like doing the math, the % of incidents found based on the numbers here are .00085%.
Taking into account that overly frequent secondary checks WILL discourage any consideration of delinquent behavior, I still don't feel like the threat has proven to be a rampant problem that would warrant the borderline harassment of crew.
Correct, thank you!
Ed Sicher is a dumb ars............. I've just flown my 64 flight leg this year and can honestly say, I have never seen a crew member receive a secondary screening at Pre Check after going to the front of the line and then thru screening!! What's the beef Ed?
I was a pilot with a major carrier in the industry for 35 years and this is an effective way to highlight the problem and force the needed corrective action. Management and the Federal Government only make a change
when they have to, and this should send a clear message that it needs to be done.
You shouldn't punish the 99% of the pilots that don't abuse the KCM process, but arrest and fire the few individuals that do.
It's easy for frustrated travelers to be negative. I'm a disabled veteran, and every American itinerary this year has had a leg that was late and created a missed flight. After going from one end of O'Hare twice trying to catch flights where gates moved, I was so affected that when I reached my destination 4 hours later I had younger men, total strangers, pacing me to make sure that I was going to make...
It's easy for frustrated travelers to be negative. I'm a disabled veteran, and every American itinerary this year has had a leg that was late and created a missed flight. After going from one end of O'Hare twice trying to catch flights where gates moved, I was so affected that when I reached my destination 4 hours later I had younger men, total strangers, pacing me to make sure that I was going to make it to baggage claim. (Thanks, guys)
All of that being said, the only things that are important to management are what is measured, because that's how they get the big bonuses. So, if flights have to be delayed to show that the system isn't working, it's not the pilots or FAs who are at fault. Don't know about you, but I don't want some stressed out crew flying MY plane!
Because KCM is not pre check. The only reason a crew member even goes through the pre check line is because they were selected for secondary screening at the KCM checkpoint. Pre check IS the secondary screening.
Just as a TSA Pre my random secondary screenings have become the norm over the last year. The only front of my hips/groin area pat down was a highlight there, also had a couple other partial pat downs of other areas, RNO last time I went through majority of people in the Pre line were “randomly selected” to go through standing scan machine. In EVERY single one of the pat down cases agents said “I...
Just as a TSA Pre my random secondary screenings have become the norm over the last year. The only front of my hips/groin area pat down was a highlight there, also had a couple other partial pat downs of other areas, RNO last time I went through majority of people in the Pre line were “randomly selected” to go through standing scan machine. In EVERY single one of the pat down cases agents said “I was randomly selected”, I never even set off a metal detector.
So yes, crew members have a point but it’s bigger than them. TSA has hugely increased random selection screenings on Crew AND TSA-Pre passengers. Epic wastes of everyone’s time.
Lol...go get a Global entry card! They still might be checked but the process will be streamlined.
Global Entry has NOTHING to do with this issue -do some homework before trying to appear bright...
Typical pilots. Right here right in front of us flaunting their beliefs that they are above the rules. With no concern for procedures. Imagine behaving like and entitled child at your job. You would be fired.
Sure thing, then just show up at the airport we’ll ahead of time to get to your job on time like the rest of people who have to travel to get to work. Telling your boss you were “stuck in traffic” multiple times will get you reprimanded if not fired. The solution is to leave a little earlier to ensure you arrive on time not “show them” that you’ll be late by taking the “slow” lane and getting stuck in traffic.
Normally I'd agree with you but pilots can't just show up early for their job. There are duty time regulations that must be followed Per Title 14 CFRs. They are scheduled to get enough rest in order to be able to perform their flights safely. Do I think what the union is asking is right? No, I think its pretty petty in my opinion. It's not the public's fault. At the same time I do...
Normally I'd agree with you but pilots can't just show up early for their job. There are duty time regulations that must be followed Per Title 14 CFRs. They are scheduled to get enough rest in order to be able to perform their flights safely. Do I think what the union is asking is right? No, I think its pretty petty in my opinion. It's not the public's fault. At the same time I do not think its fair to hold a pilot who is bound by federal regulation to the same standard as someone with a regular 9 to 5.
CD: He us not saying show up early. He is saying leave earlier to show up on time. A reasonable request. Most of us have to do it.
Hey Bob pilots are not paid until the aircraft actually moves. So yeah let me show up 2 hours before the flight so I can sit around for free. Also we have layovers that sometimes are scheduled for less than 10 hours FAA requires 8 hours of rest. So getting to the airport 2 hours ahead of time reduces rest time. Nothing like a tired pilot flying your airplane
Absolutely unreal, the most ignorant response yet. Another one who hasn't spent any time working as crew. We're talking poor work rules, 14 hour days, 10 hour rest periods, sometimes up to 5 days on the road, poor food choices, those who have to commute 6 or more hours from a different city and have families will barely see them. All while trying to maintain fitness and alertness to safely fly an aircraft. We ask...
Absolutely unreal, the most ignorant response yet. Another one who hasn't spent any time working as crew. We're talking poor work rules, 14 hour days, 10 hour rest periods, sometimes up to 5 days on the road, poor food choices, those who have to commute 6 or more hours from a different city and have families will barely see them. All while trying to maintain fitness and alertness to safely fly an aircraft. We ask for a little respite to help make getting to our jobs a bit easier, which may in turn give us extra time to get a real breakfast or lunch before potentially not being able to eat for a long time.
I absolutely LOVE that you're angry about this. Rest assured that I'll be watching with my phone ready to record any shenanigans by you clowns.
If the bulk of the screening issues occur at airports not your home base and crew rest minimums are a consideration, perhaps take a different approach to the problem.
It will take some time (and money) to implement, but the airlines and the unions get together to have small hotels built inside secure areas.
Crews would have minimal commutes, it wouldn't preclude them from going out of the secure areas to eat, etc....
If the bulk of the screening issues occur at airports not your home base and crew rest minimums are a consideration, perhaps take a different approach to the problem.
It will take some time (and money) to implement, but the airlines and the unions get together to have small hotels built inside secure areas.
Crews would have minimal commutes, it wouldn't preclude them from going out of the secure areas to eat, etc. But would allow them to go to bed in the secure area and have a prefictable transit time to the gate without screening because they never left the secure area.
(I'm not a pilot, crew or employee of any airline)
Can't agree with negative generalizations about pilots or about TSA, but pilots and flight crews are professionals responsible for hundreds of lives. They are also responsible to be at the gate on time ready to fly, as their union knows. Get to work on time and stop whining. Even Karen's can use Pre-check, or jump to the front if there are occasional unavoidable delays, but deal with it, get fined or get fired.
Flight Crew are not respected like they used to be. It’s a thankless job. People are so opinionated about a job they know nothing about. The company has made unrealistic long work days ( up to 16 hrs) and short layovers…..and now to be harassed about getting through security to get to work so flights could go out on time? Also for some of us, trying to commute to work on full and oversold flight....
Flight Crew are not respected like they used to be. It’s a thankless job. People are so opinionated about a job they know nothing about. The company has made unrealistic long work days ( up to 16 hrs) and short layovers…..and now to be harassed about getting through security to get to work so flights could go out on time? Also for some of us, trying to commute to work on full and oversold flight. The majority of you get in your car and drive to work. Imagine not knowing if you were going to make it to work when you woke up in the morning and putting your job on the line?! Ive had an amazing career with this job but I look forward to retiring one day when I don’t have to look at flight loads or the weather.
Sounds suspicious to me. If TSA is seeing a significant uptick of reasons to scrutinize attendants and pilots ( drug smuggling, being intoxicated or impaired) I say check them all through regular TSA screening. The time impact wouldn’t seem to be that great. If they don’t like it leave the company although I’d rather see them leave the entire industry.
Try reading the article see how ridiculously small the number on apparently minor events they have found. TSA is attempting to justify their jobs and not doing so very well...
Well....I think that only those pilots on duty should be allowed to use the special checkpoint. I think that pilots off duty should not be allowed. Flight attendants should not be allowed on or off duty. This would easily solve the issue. First because pilots have more to lose. Second because there is lower chance of them abusing the system if they can only use it when on duty. Third because flight attendants especially younger...
Well....I think that only those pilots on duty should be allowed to use the special checkpoint. I think that pilots off duty should not be allowed. Flight attendants should not be allowed on or off duty. This would easily solve the issue. First because pilots have more to lose. Second because there is lower chance of them abusing the system if they can only use it when on duty. Third because flight attendants especially younger in experienced ones have been known to abuse the system. Then people will not feel so many types of people have special treatment and abuse it and seemingly do not get in to as much trouble but "we" regular customers have to endure so much. By the way many other places have less strenuous checks and still low problems but that's another issue.
It's unsurprising that the "professionals" at American or its union would resort to this. This is the same airline that ignored its safety of flight responsibilities about 5 years ago when it allowed a passenger obviously too large for her one seat to board a plane and be encroaching into/onto my seat with the separating chair arm raised out of the way. A recent article showed they still were making that same mistake. The airline...
It's unsurprising that the "professionals" at American or its union would resort to this. This is the same airline that ignored its safety of flight responsibilities about 5 years ago when it allowed a passenger obviously too large for her one seat to board a plane and be encroaching into/onto my seat with the separating chair arm raised out of the way. A recent article showed they still were making that same mistake. The airline and its union leaders seem to be greatly lacking common sense and a basic understanding of their responsibilities. Telling pilots to intentionally be late seems consistent with the airline that has been my very last choice for the last several years.
The majority of the airline industry is manned by wonderful individuals. But "rouge pilots" that "one day" get out of bed to crash a plane on purpose are a reality. People forget those incidents much too quickly. Crew members that "mistakenly" transport a prohibited hazmat chemical, those that deliberately traffic drugs and yes, even transport handguns.., are also a proven fact. "One incident", is one too many. If KCM is done away with, safety will...
The majority of the airline industry is manned by wonderful individuals. But "rouge pilots" that "one day" get out of bed to crash a plane on purpose are a reality. People forget those incidents much too quickly. Crew members that "mistakenly" transport a prohibited hazmat chemical, those that deliberately traffic drugs and yes, even transport handguns.., are also a proven fact. "One incident", is one too many. If KCM is done away with, safety will be increased and you may even see a rise in "prohibited item captures". Let's plug up that hole in security, everyone will be safer. They say one bad apple ruins the barrel.
So you are proposing to "whack" 99.99% of the crews for that one bad apple? Great plan...
One is too many for those industry. One incident can cause multiple life. Simple
Get to work early just like ever other passengers or job.
It's physically impossible to show up early when given a 10 hour overnight rest with 8 hours of actual sleep, this is the minimum by federal law to operate an aircraft. That's how crews are scheduled. Any earlier and crews are breaking rest rules.
You're a flight attendant. You don't "operate" anything other than the coffee maker....and you're not very good at it.
Yes, one is too many!
What are you saying? That somehow the infractions of .000008% are going to get said pilot access to the cockpit that he normally wouldn’t have? You realize there is an ax in the cockpit?
Pilots work for an airline and do extensive background checks to become pilots. I don't think its necessary for them to go through the same level of security as passengers. If you can sign up for clear and bypass the security then Pilots should be able to also. Its just so unnecessary to haggle them as they're about to perform their duties.
Screen them just like everybody else! Same for politicians who are currently exempt from screening as well! Many layers of security are needed. The background check is just one layer. There have been multiple cases where the good guys that were former military have later been involved in violent crimes; no sympathy for the arrogant swine making $300 an hour.
@AnAirlinePilot, I have an active TS/SCI clearance, subject to random polygraphs and random drug testing and in my day job help secure the nuclear stockpile. I still have to go through TSA checkpoints.
It agree with some that it seems kind of crazy that crew have the ability to skip security. And some have clearly abused that. The answer seems to be turning the program into dedicated crew security lanes.
What's wrong with this union? Let's delay passengers happy enough to fly American Airlines. Pilots only think of themselves and NO ONE ELSE! AA pilots will never see a Delta style contract! Good luck!
I don't really see how requiring checkpoint screening for flight crew would significantly increase delays. When going through a checkpoint, they already get to skip to the very front of the standard or pre-check line and leave everything in their bags. Especially with dedicated crew lanes, I think delays would be minimal. I know a former FA who said she always just went through a checkpoint because it was quick and more predictable. I've seen...
I don't really see how requiring checkpoint screening for flight crew would significantly increase delays. When going through a checkpoint, they already get to skip to the very front of the standard or pre-check line and leave everything in their bags. Especially with dedicated crew lanes, I think delays would be minimal. I know a former FA who said she always just went through a checkpoint because it was quick and more predictable. I've seen KCM lines that take longer than simply going through the checkpoint. I understand the arguments against requiring crew checkpoint screening, but I still doubt it would cause significant delays.
I'm curious if drug smuggling is a big cause of the increased secondary screening, what does that have to do with my security on a plane. I don't really give a crap if the pilots smuggling a suit made of cocaine if they don't crash the plane.
Exactly! TSA supposedly exists to prevent hijacking, not be part of the war on drugs. Pilots can be armed for all I care. They don't need a weapon to divert or crash a plane, but they might prevent someone else from doing so.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Every Customer facing and ramp airline employee has to budget their schedule to be on time. Like the pilots and flight attendants, we too have to be at that gate or aircraft on time. Gate agents are the ones who open the jetaway door for the pilots and flight attendants. At most airport, these customer facing employees have to go through regular TSA security lines. With passengers. Then go to whichever concourse...
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Every Customer facing and ramp airline employee has to budget their schedule to be on time. Like the pilots and flight attendants, we too have to be at that gate or aircraft on time. Gate agents are the ones who open the jetaway door for the pilots and flight attendants. At most airport, these customer facing employees have to go through regular TSA security lines. With passengers. Then go to whichever concourse they are assigned, clock in (on time, of course) and get gate and flight assignments for the flights on theor schedules.
These employees are already working the flight when the crew shows up to be let down to the aircraft. The ramp is already loading baggage and cargo down on the the tarmac. ALL of them, including pilots and Flight attendants had to get to the airport, park, take whatever transportation is provided, shuttle, train, bus, to the terminal. Some crews get shuttle drop off from their crew hotel unless they are based in that city.
All but the crew members have to go through tsa. They get scanned. Everything they have gets scanned. Even lunches get scanned.
The Pilots and flight attendants sail through the Know Traveler line with freshly bought coffee and who knows what in their luggage. They are rarely scanned.
Airport employees can't even bring a bottle of water through tsa. If everyone that works at making sure that crew gets ON their plane and that plane gets boarded and it gets disconnected from the jetway and it gets a ramp tug pushback and a tower agent gets then safely into line-up to take off...ON TIME, perhaps the crew members can get to work on time without prima donna treatment.
I agree with you on everyone being on time and subject to the same standard but there is one thing that is over looked with pilots and flight attendants. They are subject to Title 14 CFR duty times regulations. They can not show up early but have to be on time due to rest regulations. Major delays for example during a TSA screening (of which I have waited over an hour in line) could cause...
I agree with you on everyone being on time and subject to the same standard but there is one thing that is over looked with pilots and flight attendants. They are subject to Title 14 CFR duty times regulations. They can not show up early but have to be on time due to rest regulations. Major delays for example during a TSA screening (of which I have waited over an hour in line) could cause a crew to time out and be grounded for the day. A crew that shows up late can even time out right before a door closes. They are bound by the law and can not operate that aircraft. I do not agree with the union and how they suggest dealing with this. I think its pretty petty. It is not the general public's fault.
This is stupid. I understand that it might be frustrating, but it needs to be unpredictable. Just because someone becomes a crew member doesn't mean that they might never have bad intentions. How inconvenient could be possibly be to walk through a scanner and have your bag scanned. This who article is stupid and over privileged.
Or he could pressure crew to stop abusing the lane for.illegal purposes so the number of checks drop.
Some nasty pilots think that they are above the laws.
Time to allow foreign carriers operating US domestic routes!!!
"something tells me most pilots won’t actually do this, because who would want to voluntarily deal with a TSA checkpoint?"
At the current random screening rate, pilots are dealing with standard TSA screening the vast majority of the time. Often times this checkpoint is located nowhere near the KCM checkpoint. Many pilots have begun using the passenger checkpoint to save time and hassle. This cuts out the unpredictability of showing up at the airport and...
"something tells me most pilots won’t actually do this, because who would want to voluntarily deal with a TSA checkpoint?"
At the current random screening rate, pilots are dealing with standard TSA screening the vast majority of the time. Often times this checkpoint is located nowhere near the KCM checkpoint. Many pilots have begun using the passenger checkpoint to save time and hassle. This cuts out the unpredictability of showing up at the airport and having X number of minutes to report to the aircraft. If the KCM program does not change, this is going to become the norm and there will be delays, especially on peak travel days when security checkpoint line wait times can often exceed the time allowed for crew to report to the aircraft from being dropped at the curb.
As a reminder, airline crew are background checked, randomly drug tested, scrutinized very closely in a highly regulated job, and many pilots have prior military experience requiring government security clearances. They also have millions of dollars to lose by violating these policies. They also have access to an axe in the flight deck and physical control of the airplane. KCM is intended to recognize these factors. Right now, it does not.
It’s a power grab and nothing more. The whole flight crew has been screened heavily before getting the job. If they truly wanted to cause harm they can do it regardless of extra screening especially the pilots.
TSA has their heads up they behinds on this one.
Instead of banning the people bringing through contraband they over step. What else would you expect from our government bureaucrats.
One more reason to get rid of the union. Obviously they care nothing for the customer, which will lose customers and drive the number of flights down. This in turn hurts their members.
I've been a member of four different unions, and they all sucked.
Let them show up early like any other passengers
We already pull 12 to 14 hour days, with minimal 10 hour rests overnight.
Who doesn't? Most people don't sit in a cozy climate controlled cockpit though... This sounds ridiculous. Obviously you can't have crew smuggling drugs. does that suck for people that aren't? Of course but the hassle doesn't outweigh the reasoning. I can't imagine any rational non spoiled airline employee wouldn't understand this.
I'm sure the KCM checkpoint is still far more lax than standard. This sounds like entitlement BS. Honestly America is going to...
Who doesn't? Most people don't sit in a cozy climate controlled cockpit though... This sounds ridiculous. Obviously you can't have crew smuggling drugs. does that suck for people that aren't? Of course but the hassle doesn't outweigh the reasoning. I can't imagine any rational non spoiled airline employee wouldn't understand this.
I'm sure the KCM checkpoint is still far more lax than standard. This sounds like entitlement BS. Honestly America is going to hell in a hand basket. I'll only fly if absolutely necessary and never domestic if it can be helped US airlines are pure garage compared to foreign airlines.
find a new job then!
Josh, wonderful deflection of safety standards. It's not about any one individdual, its about safety standards for flight crews, being physically and mentally fit to deal with the threats present in aviation and ensuring safety for hundreds of people. Would you like to think the people up front are fatigued or tired as they fly human lives? Or do you live in a 1950s coal town mentality?
Well since there is a regulation as to how many hours they can be on duty; then be prepared for your flight to not go because they go illegal because they “show up early” like the passengers
TSA checkpoints are nothing more than a symbolic way to show that the government is ‘keeping us safe’.
You put the blame for the trouble makers at the feet of flight attendants but you forgot that the pilots have also caused issues. One pilot is reported to have brought his own personal gun to work without being an ffdo. I'd much rather have an fa smuggle drugs than a pilot with an unauthorized gun. The ladder puts the public at risk way more than the former.
Also let's remember that KCM is...
You put the blame for the trouble makers at the feet of flight attendants but you forgot that the pilots have also caused issues. One pilot is reported to have brought his own personal gun to work without being an ffdo. I'd much rather have an fa smuggle drugs than a pilot with an unauthorized gun. The ladder puts the public at risk way more than the former.
Also let's remember that KCM is only in the US. The recent FAs who were arrested for drugs were coming from another county. Blame that country's regular security for that.
Because of some pilots and FA abused the KCM now we need to go to TSA line. Union doesn’t have anything to do with TSA. They get pay to represent employees with the company. Should fight for better salary, better conditions of work, getting pay for the hours at airport when we sign in, and more and more. The company it’s gonna tell crew to get earlier at airport for TSA line and we have to because it’s not the company e PAX problem about KCM AND TSA.
The fact that there was EVER a 'Known Crew Member' service that allows people to bypass airport security is pure bonkers.
I understand US based crews to be up in arms about losing this benefit as it is all they have ever known but to anyone outside the US the face that a pilot or flight attendant does not pass through regular airport security is jaw dropping.
I'm not sure if airline crews are able...
The fact that there was EVER a 'Known Crew Member' service that allows people to bypass airport security is pure bonkers.
I understand US based crews to be up in arms about losing this benefit as it is all they have ever known but to anyone outside the US the face that a pilot or flight attendant does not pass through regular airport security is jaw dropping.
I'm not sure if airline crews are able to bypass security elsewhere in the world but in all european countries, Australia we go through normal airport security like everyone else - albeit dedicated crew lanes.
The reasons for this are obvious - want an easy ride as a drug smuggler or terrorist is the US, just get a job as a flight attendant.
Anyone remember PSA 1771 in the 1980's? A disgruntled employee who had been sacked the day before used his credentials as airline staff to bypass airport security at LAX and non rev on a flight who he knew his boss (and the guy that sacked him) was travelling on. As he was able to bypass security he took a gun onboard, murdered his ex boss, the pilots and allowed the plane to crash killing everyone on board.
Airport security - specifically the TSA - is infamously useless at actually catching anything. It is a performative waste of obscene amounts of money and time that serves only to provide false security to stupid and/or ignorant people.
PSA 1771 … tragic, but not rational justification for airport security given the involved costs and benefits. There have been shootings in restaurants, and bombs on streets, and cars used as murder weapons driven into cafes…...
Airport security - specifically the TSA - is infamously useless at actually catching anything. It is a performative waste of obscene amounts of money and time that serves only to provide false security to stupid and/or ignorant people.
PSA 1771 … tragic, but not rational justification for airport security given the involved costs and benefits. There have been shootings in restaurants, and bombs on streets, and cars used as murder weapons driven into cafes… Why don’t we have every storefront and care protected by concrete barricades, security screenings at every restaurant, and security checkpoints every 10 feet on public streets?
There are billions of humans. It is absolutely unavoidable that there will be tragic instances of murder, no matter the security measures put in place. It is a cost inherent in the existence of billions of people on the same planet. This reality is not a reasonable basis for wasting unfathomable amounts of resources.
Blame the sickos at TSA, not pilots. Foolish to screen pilots. That TSA screening isn't worth squat if they have bad intentions once they're in cockpit at 30k feet.
As someone who works for TSA in the compliance department, I get all the emails when a pilot is caught bringing a weapon or something else through. I can say for certain in my hub airport alone there were at least 6 incidents last month. And while yes, a pilot does not need a knife or gun to bring a plane down, it's a position of public trust and if you can't be trusted to follow the rules, then why should anyone trust you to fly the plane carrying 300 passengers.
As someone who used to be an FAA inspector if airline pilots did not have a crash ax within the flight deck they would be in violation of 14CFR121.309. Those pilots would face certificate action. So while the TSA might take away clippers, knives and other assorted items from pilots they always have an ax within arms reach while on the flight deck.
If a pilot intends to do harm, he already has access to the worst weapon possible. A pilot who does not intend to do any harm is not a danger, whether or not he is carrying a knife or gun with him.
In other words, these rules as applied to pilots (who btw have a handy axe in the cockpit, but a utility knife in their bag is a concern?) are simply stupid. There...
If a pilot intends to do harm, he already has access to the worst weapon possible. A pilot who does not intend to do any harm is not a danger, whether or not he is carrying a knife or gun with him.
In other words, these rules as applied to pilots (who btw have a handy axe in the cockpit, but a utility knife in their bag is a concern?) are simply stupid. There is no moral value in following the rules simply for the sake of following the rules. A failure to follow objectively pointless rules has no bearing on one’s trustworthiness as a pilot.
This makes me angry! I don’t understand why unions have their members bring the company that employs them to their knees. What sounds right about biting the hand that feeds them? Airlines will never improve while unions bring them down repeatedly.
Well that will get the traveling public to sympathize with them. Its kind of like BLM blocking the highway. Only turns me against them more.
A new slogan:
"Your Christmas dinner.....ruined by APA, AFA & ALPA"
Right, because inconveniencing people to make a point about and protest racial injustice, racial profiling and police brutality, and the senseless murders of Black people is the same thing as potentially delaying a flight. Totally the same thing.
Huh??? And that has to do with Airline Unions behaving badly how?
The start, there is no "racial injustice" or "senseless muders" of anyone. These are examples of you thirsting to have victim status...apparently you can't find a way to succeed in this life otherwise. You're childish and should not be trusted. This was brought on by ONE reason and ONE reason alone: abuse. Not by white people, not by po-lice, not by TSA........by YOU.
There was no KCM 10 or so years ago. Things ran just fine.
How do you compare this with people protesting police brutality and murdering black people in light of day? SMH
Unions gonna union.
Typical union, don't think about better solution, but make the other agents deal with the consequences.
Now what are you going to tell the gateagents who have to deal with rebooking all the passengers who miss their connections?
You mean the same gate agents who, along with thousands of other airport workers, just swipe through a door, only very rarely encountering random screening? Better start sending them through normal security every time too, lest they attempt to sneak a pocketknife through to hand off to a pilot who might use it for evil.
Petty. Punish passengers and the airline to make a point to TSA.
While they may voluntarily join the passenger TSA line, that still does not excuse arriving late for a flight and therefore purposely delay a flight. Like any other airline worker, if they choose to do this then they are responsible for allowing time to arrive to their flight on time.
They're not paid during this time anyway. If you want the crew to arrive on time, stop taking away the avenues they use for quick access like KCM.
Why would pilots need a weapon? If a rogue pilot wants to do harm, what is the best weapon in their possession? The airplane! You can crash it, flying into a building, etc and kill everyone on board. TSA should just let them be.
Yep.
I understand the argument for different rules for flight attendants, but a pilot who wants to harm people doesn’t require a weapon - he has the plane. And if he needs something in addition to the plane, there’s a handy axe available in the cockpit.
A pilot is either dangerous or not; the presence or lack of a weapon in his bag is irrelevant.
The flight attendants know about the crash axe too, so what's the point in having different rules for them? There is also plenty of things we have access to in the cabin which can be used as weapons.
@Sarah, based on your statement you actually don’t understand any procedures aboard an airplane during flight.
As a business member of the flying public, I have found that if I allow myself sufficient time, I can go through pre-check and not be late for my flight. I really feel disappointed to heat that the American Airlines Pilots Union is throwing a temperature that is only hurting the one group that keeps them employed, the flying public.
Well AAPU, you will make your point. I will fly my American flight today and...
As a business member of the flying public, I have found that if I allow myself sufficient time, I can go through pre-check and not be late for my flight. I really feel disappointed to heat that the American Airlines Pilots Union is throwing a temperature that is only hurting the one group that keeps them employed, the flying public.
Well AAPU, you will make your point. I will fly my American flight today and then go back to flying Alaska, a group where the employee's appreciate their customers business.
Flight crews don't decide when to show up at the airport. The company sets that time and schedules transportation accordingly. Yes, the company can shift that forward to allow more time for crews to clear security, but the scheduled airport arrival time starts a flight duty period clock which limits the amount of time crews can work before requiring rest. The unintended consequence here is minor delays becoming canceled flights and stranded passengers due to...
Flight crews don't decide when to show up at the airport. The company sets that time and schedules transportation accordingly. Yes, the company can shift that forward to allow more time for crews to clear security, but the scheduled airport arrival time starts a flight duty period clock which limits the amount of time crews can work before requiring rest. The unintended consequence here is minor delays becoming canceled flights and stranded passengers due to crews timing out. Do you want your pilots showing up 30 minutes earlier so they can stand around with you in TSA lines, or would you prefer they save that extra 30 minutes to get you to your destination in case flights are delayed?
The proper fix is to revert to historical random screening rates at KCM checkpoints while revoking or suspending KCM privileges for crewmembers who inadvertently or intentionally break the rules.
My union hasn't put out a memo like this, but make no mistake: pilots at all US airlines are talking about taking these kinds of actions to protest this nonsense. You can avoid American all you want, but if this problem isn't resolved, you're likely to encounter second- and third-order consequences no matter which airline you fly.
Transportation SECURITY Agency, not the Drug Enforcement Agency. As a retired airline pilot, pilots don't need a weapon to do harm. Screening pilots is such a joke.
Maybe screening makes a few people who have not thought about it feel better. Sorry, that's all you are getting, feeling better.
Do you know who Clayton Osbon is? Would have been cool if he had a gun right? It's good that you old farts are leaving the industry.
As a retired pilot then I'm sure you've at least witnessed or possibly experienced yourself pilots with too few hours of sleep, hungover, or even still drunk. Pilots need to be screened as well.
I'd be more sympathetic if this wasn't happening across the board for vetted airport employees.
And the argument, they're the pilots, they can just the plane, only makes sense if there was a way to allow on-duty only pilots, but as I see now many off duty aircrew use it as well. I don't blame them and would take advantage myself if I could.
You may not like my opinion but I think all crew members should have have to go through TSA screening.
If Pilots start delaying flights, they are the ones that will be in trouble with their boss and start getting write ups.
Some Pilots whine just as much as trump because something is not going their way. Grow the hell up.
Right!!!
I'm going to assume you've never worked as a crewmember? pulling a 14 hour day with minimum rest, after day 5 on the road, rushing to get food to eat in the morning and having TSA random you and give you trouble about said food items only to have it taken away when you go through regular screening, Hmmm all things to think about.
If you don't like the rules you could always take your knowledge, skills, and abilities elsewhere....Or play the victim. Your call
Sad that all other comments are unsympathetic to the union boss' position. I have no dog in this race (no special loyalty to any stakeholder in this issue) but I agree with the union guy. Very few crew are actual security problems, so why does anyone want them subjected to a process that delays travel? When normal people agree that TSA is silly we'll begin a rational conversation about these matters. Seems TSA has changed...
Sad that all other comments are unsympathetic to the union boss' position. I have no dog in this race (no special loyalty to any stakeholder in this issue) but I agree with the union guy. Very few crew are actual security problems, so why does anyone want them subjected to a process that delays travel? When normal people agree that TSA is silly we'll begin a rational conversation about these matters. Seems TSA has changed their crew screening practices based upon tweets and "news" stories.
TSA needs improving so you agree with the union response to screw over the airline and all the customers? The union is there to negotiate between the employees and employer. TSA is neither and this action does nothing to inconvenience them. It's stupid and I hope it causes that union to fail.
Alpa is alive and well
The TSA should never negotiate with terrorists. In this case, the terrorists are ALPA and their members.
I always found it strange that in the US crew members are only screened on a random basis. In Europe, Latin America and Asia they have to pass regular screening. At their home base, airlines sometimes have separate facilities, but they all get screened.
US airline pilot here. Technically, we are screened every time we access KCM. The screening just doesn’t always include a physical screening. When we approach the KCM checkpoint, we have to show 2 (and sometimes 3) forms of ID. We are then vetted electronically to confirm that we are, at that moment, still employed and have passed the FBI background check and remain in an approved status. Then it’s decided whether or not we require...
US airline pilot here. Technically, we are screened every time we access KCM. The screening just doesn’t always include a physical screening. When we approach the KCM checkpoint, we have to show 2 (and sometimes 3) forms of ID. We are then vetted electronically to confirm that we are, at that moment, still employed and have passed the FBI background check and remain in an approved status. Then it’s decided whether or not we require a physical screening. So even if we don’t get the freedom grope, it’s not like we have a free pass to access the secure part of the terminal unchecked.
And you smuggled drugs, guns and other weapons. Now you're losing that privilege.
@Matt K: I understand that airline pilots have regular background checks done - pretty much everywhere on this planet. This does not explain their different treatment in the US and elsewhere.
given that Delta pilots are set to leapfrog American pilots in pay (and every other US airline for that matter), adding a reason for the company not to get a new contract for AA pilots seems pretty short-sighted.
There is an ever-present campaign by replace the American's pilot's union with another.
I got news for ya. Pilots at every airline are having these kinds of discussions, and lots of us are asking why ALPA National hasn't sent out a similar memo. This is a real problem, and it's not limited to any particular carrier.
Imagine if he used the same leverage to motivate the TSA to fix their screening process for all users, not just crew members. What a dream!
They'd rather sabotage their customers because they're not getting what they want.
I haven't flown AA in over a decade and see that nothing has changed with them.
Best of luck waiting 15 mins for a passenger to argue and dig for her prescription saying that she can keep her bottle of Dasani.
The problem is KCM is not often co-located with TSA screening areas. As a result if a crew goes to KCM and is sent to normal screening this can add many minutes to the process. With airlines wanting crews to show at the airport with a few minutes as possible for a flight to assure longer duty day legality it creates an additional issue. The rejection rate at KCM is over 50% now. So even...
The problem is KCM is not often co-located with TSA screening areas. As a result if a crew goes to KCM and is sent to normal screening this can add many minutes to the process. With airlines wanting crews to show at the airport with a few minutes as possible for a flight to assure longer duty day legality it creates an additional issue. The rejection rate at KCM is over 50% now. So even if a crew goes together one or more may be delayed with going from KCM to normal security. I would like to know how many prohibited items the TSA has found with this increase in additional screening of crews.
Another reason to avoid AA these days.
Malicious compliance (a.k.a work to rule).
I’ve never really understood why they can skip the line in regular security. When I get up at 3:30 am to catch my flight on time and I see them parade past me in the early morning flight all I can think is: “why can’t they get up at 3:30 am to get to work on time too?”
Because they worked late the night before? Well, welcome to the world of 4 hour sleep. Now let’s hear the FAs whine.
You obviously don’t have any idea how the airline industry work schedule works. Yes, your going to hear the FAs take on your response. Most FAs and pilots are on “On call” schedule. In other words, most do not have a set schedule as a posed to your confirmed reservation for your flight, and are only given only a certain amount of time to get to work, so your flight can depart on time.
...
You obviously don’t have any idea how the airline industry work schedule works. Yes, your going to hear the FAs take on your response. Most FAs and pilots are on “On call” schedule. In other words, most do not have a set schedule as a posed to your confirmed reservation for your flight, and are only given only a certain amount of time to get to work, so your flight can depart on time.
So, a lot of the crews get called very early with a short notice to report to work. Therefore, the KCM and the “cutting the regular security line” is necessary to get your flight out on time. We are not trying to feel entitled when we “skip the line” we are your crews of your flights, and of course you would complain if your crew was not there on time, and of course you would expect your flight to depart on time. Right?
So, please keep your comments positive, and don’t assume that we are not competent to get to work on time, just you have no idea how the system works. Oh, by the way you may want to re-think having a crew that is only on four hours sleep. That’s a safety issue.
Well said and explained about crew scheduling And no, I don't want a tired flight crew and expect that they are provided expedited security clearance. But I completely disagree with the union on this. They exist to represent the pilots to the company. TSA is not the company. All this ridiculous power play -which is what unions have become in my opinion - does is screw over the employers paying customers. Maybe they should think...
Well said and explained about crew scheduling And no, I don't want a tired flight crew and expect that they are provided expedited security clearance. But I completely disagree with the union on this. They exist to represent the pilots to the company. TSA is not the company. All this ridiculous power play -which is what unions have become in my opinion - does is screw over the employers paying customers. Maybe they should think about "biting the hand that feeds them". Personally I think company policy should require using the KCM lime and any pilot choosing to use regular screening should be disciplined. If it causes a flight to be late even more harshly.
It's time for AA to get rid of all their overpaid pilots.
I agree with your point of view. The pilots do have the upper hand when it comes to negotiations with an airline in the US. You talk about discipline them, but the truth is, you can't just fire them. They are not a workgroup where you fire and hire. There is a scarcity of pilots.
Pilots and mechanics DO delay flights on purpose to get what they want during negotiations. Pilots can send aircraft...
I agree with your point of view. The pilots do have the upper hand when it comes to negotiations with an airline in the US. You talk about discipline them, but the truth is, you can't just fire them. They are not a workgroup where you fire and hire. There is a scarcity of pilots.
Pilots and mechanics DO delay flights on purpose to get what they want during negotiations. Pilots can send aircraft to maintenance for unnecessary matters , and mechanics to take their sweet time to "fix an aircraft safely, whenever they want something from management.
Both actions screw the customers and your so much hated flight attendants group, who has to deal with millions of questions on grounded planes when they are NOT GETTING PAID. Also affects gate agents.
When I fly AA, I don't have a "set schedule" either.
If FAs are on such short call to get to work and you don’t want to keep a plane load of people waiting, why have I never seen a pilot or FA in a hurry in an airport? The rest of us are running our asses off to catch a flight while I see FAs leisurely walking, talking, and laughing.
Never have I seen one in a hurry. Even the ones I’m on that...
If FAs are on such short call to get to work and you don’t want to keep a plane load of people waiting, why have I never seen a pilot or FA in a hurry in an airport? The rest of us are running our asses off to catch a flight while I see FAs leisurely walking, talking, and laughing.
Never have I seen one in a hurry. Even the ones I’m on that are waiting on the crew. They arrive quite leisurely.
Most wait times in TSA precheck are less than 15 minutes in my experience. Of course can be longer in large airports at peak. But I doubt an extra 15 minutes makes a difference in your sleep.
When a group of FAs passed me in precheck last month there were only 6 of us in line. Really?
You do it because you can. Don’t pretend you care about your customers!
Wanting your pilot to skip SLEEP in order to go through TSA is just about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Do you know anything about the consequences of insufficient sleep on cognitive performance? How about on ability to safely fly?
Do you want pilots to go through the same process that you go through out of spite? Maybe envy? An unhealthy love of rules for the sake of rules? Because your motivation cannot be safety.
Yeah, that extra 20 minutes they would have gotten if they went to the back of the line would have made all the difference.
Whining FAs as I predicted.
Try to make a more intelligent argument.
Exactly!
Wow, advocating for less sleep for a crew operating an aircraft with hundreds of human lives and families? Tell me this is satire becuase fatigue is deadly serious. Lots of crews are out there pulling 14 hour days with minimum legal rest already, which isn't much. As a passenger you get to nap after you get on an aircraft. We have to remain alert for extended periods of time to remain safe.
And when you get on the plane, you can sleep. maybe FAS should sleep when they get on the plane. you sure would whine then
Need some cheese?