The Paris Air Show is going on right now. In addition to just being a way to showcase planes, the event is also a conference for those in the industry, intended to discuss various topic.
This morning, the Paris Air Show shared on Twitter how an event was happening right now, dedicated to “taking action for more women in aerospace.” The Tweet continues, “let’s promote gender diversity in the aerospace industry,” and uses the hashtags #WomenInAerospace and #GenderDiversity.
What a fantastic topic to discuss! And then you see the picture of who is engaged in this important discussion…
Based on how the men are sitting and sharing one mic, while the woman is standing and has her own mic, it almost seems like the sole woman in the gender diversity panel might just be moderating the evening.
Here’s the thing — it’s one thing if this were an isolated incident in the airline industry, but it happens all the time. I simply don’t get it:
- I get how people have this idea; these older men think that they need to discuss gender diversity, so then they create a panel where they can discuss the topic with other older men, because, you know, I’m sure they think they know best; but does no one stop them and say “hey, umm, maybe a panel about gender diversity should, you know, be diverse?”
- And then to the folks running social media for the Paris Air Show, did no one think “hey, this probably isn’t a picture we should post to showcase how we’re discussing the important topic of gender diversity?
Anyway…
Maybe Ben should add an update...as a huge huge assumption was made that the panel of 4 white men was the only discussion group on the topic...
https://twitter.com/oseisaesupaero/status/1672196696195973126?s=20
Shitload of people owes an apology.
Vinay so true. We want the surgeon who aced all his tests and has 100 % good outcomes..( they all wake up and live)
I see nothing wrong the picture and there a lot of assumptions being made by what, 1/500th of a second on the show.
So four guys can't discuss equality without women, blacks, or asians present? C'mon.
Focusing on CEOs and pilots ignores diversity among those who empty toilets, toss luggage, refuel aircraft, etc. Diversity only seems to get mentioned for the highest paid, highest prestige jobs. Why not promote diversity for all jobs, even the lowest paid and most dangerous ones?
between the maldives resort rape, and this article, one thing is abundantly clear. a large number of people who post comments on this website are unabashedly regressive bigots. airline travel is supposed to reduce our prejudices and to give us more empathy toward our fellow human beings. but this website is full of rape apologists, victim blamers, and outright anti-lgbtq+ bigots.
"airline travel is supposed to reduce our prejudice"
Where in god's green earth did you dig up this zinger???
Clearly logic is not your friend. No form of transportation whether riding a donkey or rowing or walking or flying is inherently bound to magically transform you into a better person. At least Yin Dao Yan had a modicum of sense, albeit warped towards a certain ideology. You're just full of hot air and...
"airline travel is supposed to reduce our prejudice"
Where in god's green earth did you dig up this zinger???
Clearly logic is not your friend. No form of transportation whether riding a donkey or rowing or walking or flying is inherently bound to magically transform you into a better person. At least Yin Dao Yan had a modicum of sense, albeit warped towards a certain ideology. You're just full of hot air and BS. And I still maintain Ben is trolling us..Deal with it.
Airline travel is supposed to reduce our time it takes to get from one point to another compared to land based travel. What you do there is on you.
"airline travel is supposed to reduce our prejudices and to give us more empathy toward our fellow human beings."
Did this person just found a solution to world peace?
Airline travel?
And yet we have 2 super billionaires settling it in a cage fight. Oh humanity.
I only clicked on this article becuase I knew the comments were going to be hilariously stupid and I am not dissapointed
step 1) complain about "stupid" comments
step 2) demonstrate the inability to spell an elementary school level word
How do you know these 3 people are white men?! Did you just assume their gender and race? Jeez, Ben, what a misogynistic disgusting and racist p o s you are.
Last I checked they were beautiful heroic women of color who against all odds became top of industry. You gotta celebrate them, you racist! Their truth is THE truth!
im sorry fox news dot com was unavailable at 11:03pm on june 22. it should be back now. please do not post these nonsense comments, your sarcasm is not funny. sarcasm is also considered the lowest form of wit.
Lmao look at its, little cryboy got angry somebody used the position he no doubtz supports against him. HAHA man, what a joke about fox too, jeez, you on fire today brotha, keep it up!
Ben is trolling again...
nice one. engineer. the field notorious for making women feel uncomfortable because undergrad engineering courses are 99% men 1% women and 95% of the 99% of men are creeping on the women the whole time.
How do you know that all of the people sitting are men, just because they look like men? Very judgemental of you, Ben
unproductive and unfunny comment. gender diversity is a noble goal and it makes us all better off.
So? It's a typical "western" organization that is trying to be politically correct by having a "diversity" pannel. Nothing new there. Specifically it is about gender, but they should have boadened it so it could include Asians and others that are important stakeholders for the company. Interesting that you don't usually see this kind of thing from non-Western companies and nobody is complaining about it too. Let's just stick to the topic at hand - points and miles.
what is wrong with trying to be politically correct aka a decent contributing member of society?
asian cultures are catching up quick to diversity programs and for good reason.
the whole purpose of points and miles is to get you more access to more of the world so you can see different (aka diverse) cultures and not be a bigot like how you presented yourself in this comment.
Wait, which one of these is a man and which one a woman? Let’s not trust the appearances and bend to the social constructs. Maybe Ben got it all wrong…
maybe you are a complete a*hole, who should take some courses in biology, sociology, political science, and feminist studies. as society moves forward with a better understanding of the human beings and the world around us, we undertake initiatives like DEI that make the world a better place. ideologies like yours are backwards and shameful.
This is an issue very dear to my heart. As some may know, I assist or sit on the board of multiple initiatives whose goals include increasing participation of youth and women in aviation, specifically in Africa. This kind of exclusionary panel is unfortunately pretty common at all levels, and everywhere in the world.
One of the initiatives I am involved with is AviaDev Africa, and we had our annual conference in Nairobi last...
This is an issue very dear to my heart. As some may know, I assist or sit on the board of multiple initiatives whose goals include increasing participation of youth and women in aviation, specifically in Africa. This kind of exclusionary panel is unfortunately pretty common at all levels, and everywhere in the world.
One of the initiatives I am involved with is AviaDev Africa, and we had our annual conference in Nairobi last week. Each year, three young people are given the opportunity to compete for the ability to address an audience of major stakeholders in African aviation as "AviaDev Ambassadors". It's been great to see that for the last few years, over half of the Ambassadors have been female (including 2 of 3 this year).
I also had the opportunity to lead the AviaDev Youth Outreach Event in partnership with the Young Aviators Club of Africa at the East Africa School of Aviation, where young persons from age 4 upwards got to interact with representatives from Airbus, Rolls Royce, Embraer, various airlines, leasing companies, etc.. Again, the number of female participants was around 50%, including on our side where we were proud to give the young ladies exposure to wonderful female role models in the industry.
There are other amazing initiatives in Africa which focus on increasing female participation in aviation (and STEAM in general) at a young age. Some of these like Girls Fly Africa are (at the risk of overdoing the superlatives) beyond incredible for the opportunities they provide the young ladies and the quality of graduates they produce.
My point is that while it may be a bit late for real diversity with the current generation judging by the tone deaf images from LeBourget, the next generation will definitely see much more diversity develop organically, and that is a wonderful thing.
PS. Please feel free to check out the various initiatives I have mentioned above to see actual positive news on this front. Thanks!
Thanks for your self-promotion efforts
You could’ve made it a lil shorter tho
@Sean
You're "old" though. Your opinion doesn't matter. Your comment should be deleted as "cringe."
This is about airplanes, not political correctness and privileges.
Really?
Good thing you alerted Ben to what his blog is about.
This is the point where you threaten not to read it anymore, btw.
Glad you let Ben know. Perhaps he will be better next time in not stoking the coals for clicks. At least the other bloggers come by it honestly rather than hide behind righteousness.
Q. Who knew there are so many white snowflakes here who are afraid that their privilege is under threat?
A. Everyone.
It's axiomatic that those who protest "virtue signaling" the loudest are the least virtuous (and most threatened) of anyone.
Above comment is perfect example of why these types of articles really degrade an otherwise legitimate travel blog.
@Willy
White men in their 50's are only toxic when they are toxic. Just like men of every age and every color. Women can be toxic and detached as well.
White men in their 50's are highly experienced and far more empathetic than you imagine. Just go to any comment about Kirby at United and find the right wingers calling him out for being, "woke." Are you going to call him "old" and detached...
@Willy
White men in their 50's are only toxic when they are toxic. Just like men of every age and every color. Women can be toxic and detached as well.
White men in their 50's are highly experienced and far more empathetic than you imagine. Just go to any comment about Kirby at United and find the right wingers calling him out for being, "woke." Are you going to call him "old" and detached then as well? The fact is that being moderate, rational, pragmatic, and looking for solutions, if you are white, male, and 50 something, leads you to become a target on both sides.
Maybe take time to figure out how we can all get along and realize that many are trying to be part of the solution. You on the other hand are making our argument for respect across the board far more difficult.
I don't understand any of the many comments like Stuart's. They all sound personally aggrieved/attacked by the idea that a panel on gender diversity should perhaps have some gender diversity. I have not seen anyone argue that white males can't have or express any valuable views or insights on the topic. They just shouldn't be the only ones doing so. Is that really controversial?
We need more forward thinking CEOs in the tourism industry.
As CEO of OceanGate, Stockton Rush, has already figured out, there’s nothing inspiring about 50 year old white guys.
Maybe everyone can learn from him!
+1
the old white men being bitter in the comments.... Completely agree with this farce, Ben. My company had a diversity and inclusion panel workshop recently and it was run and moderated fully by white people. I wasn't invited as the workshop was aimed for POC but I was sitting in with my colleague who attended via zoom. Shocking.
I don’t think anyone, including me, disagrees that having four MEN and one woman in a GENDER diversity meeting is odd….though there is nothing offered as to the back story as to reasons why. However, for Ben to add the term “old” is what I think is triggering people here, at least me. As if there being middle aged is somehow detracting from their ability to discuss an issue. Not all of us are characters from Mad Men…just in case you need reassurance.
If two of the men sitting down were trans dressed as women would this article still be relevant as not being representative?
every diversity meeting should start with all panelists pulling down their pants. i want to see is it sausage or is it taco?
@Peach... why?
Having women in aerospace as a specific topic without mentions of non-binary, gender fluid is discrimination itself.
How many groups are you going to need to include to make everyone happy?
Personally, I’d like to see more trans and non-binary people on such panels, in addition to more non-men more generally.
they do indeed look like men, but is that how they identify? If not, then Bob's your uncle as we say...
This is what's wrong with America today.
All the replies so far are only discussing and making conclusions based on the people on the panel, while completely ignoring what the purpose of having the panel, it's content.
That's why it's so easy to use propaganda on most of you.
Could you imagine Uber's chief diversity and inclusion, who is far from being a white middle age man, was suspended?
Please call out the diversity...
This is what's wrong with America today.
All the replies so far are only discussing and making conclusions based on the people on the panel, while completely ignoring what the purpose of having the panel, it's content.
That's why it's so easy to use propaganda on most of you.
Could you imagine Uber's chief diversity and inclusion, who is far from being a white middle age man, was suspended?
Please call out the diversity panel of white middle age men, if what they discuss does nothing to promote diversity or make it even worse.
Since it's pride month and probably still fresh in your memory, I'll leave you with this. It's also not uncommon to see a panel that doesn't include any straight up M or F on the panel either.
Exactly the responses I would have expected. Super useful discussion. Good luck with this Ben. I agree entirely with your intended argument in this post, for what it's worth. But as far as I can see all it achieved is to "drive engagement".
Because in any business, which strives for PROFIT, gender equality and inclusion is a hypocritical argument used only for cosmetic reasons. Women and men can be equally important to any business as long as they MAKE MONEY
And if this involves working crazy hours the problem is just about the opposite: give men paternal leave in equal amount to maternal leave and most women will have more time to dedicate work.
And please...
Because in any business, which strives for PROFIT, gender equality and inclusion is a hypocritical argument used only for cosmetic reasons. Women and men can be equally important to any business as long as they MAKE MONEY
And if this involves working crazy hours the problem is just about the opposite: give men paternal leave in equal amount to maternal leave and most women will have more time to dedicate work.
And please don’t tell me that this is only an argument about straight families. They still are the majority and you start fixing problems with the majority of people if you want to fix a problem.
Encouraging diversity above quality is silly. I would expect my airline to make sure their aircraft have the best pilots and flight attendants possible. Same goes for the medical industry. I would hope all of us would want the best possible surgeon (or pilot) taking care of our family - not someone who got there because of gender or skin color.
Who other than you, said anything about "above quality"...? What you're clearly too IGNORANT to comprehend, is a concept that's been shown time and time again to be true:
A candidate could be top of their class at Stanford, but if their name is Wang Qingbao or Asagbe Igbinosun, they're generally going to get overlooked by Western employers for someone with "Graham Peterson" at the top of their resume, unless it's a position that requires...
Who other than you, said anything about "above quality"...? What you're clearly too IGNORANT to comprehend, is a concept that's been shown time and time again to be true:
A candidate could be top of their class at Stanford, but if their name is Wang Qingbao or Asagbe Igbinosun, they're generally going to get overlooked by Western employers for someone with "Graham Peterson" at the top of their resume, unless it's a position that requires a linguistic skill set.
THAT'S the type of bias they're attempting to eliminate here. No one is saying that because you belong to X group, that you should vault ahead of someone more qualified-- like certain underachievers so often choose to fearmonger.
...and yes, same with gender, same with race, same with locale, same with.....
As a surgeon, I'm pleased you mention medicine as a cognate. Do you know that there's good evidence that women physicians actually have better outcomes than men? Did you know that in the US, black patients have better outcomes with black physicians? I really appreciate your comment because it highlights the importance of a diverse physician population has on patient outcomes. Thanks for bringing that up! ;)
Funny how many times the “best” candidate is a relative, frat brother, college roommate, etc. Hiring managers hire people they are familiar with not the best candidate.
It's both sad and funny reading how triggered all these S.D.E. white guys here get, over a simple panel
It’s interesting that you find it funny marginalizing one group, as Ben calls them, “Old Men,” while at the same time asking for respect as part of another group. As if those of us who are over 50 and white are all somehow detached from reality. In fact we are some of the strongest voices for inclusiveness. These comments though, and this post, just stoke the fire of culture wars even more. Both you and...
It’s interesting that you find it funny marginalizing one group, as Ben calls them, “Old Men,” while at the same time asking for respect as part of another group. As if those of us who are over 50 and white are all somehow detached from reality. In fact we are some of the strongest voices for inclusiveness. These comments though, and this post, just stoke the fire of culture wars even more. Both you and Ben might be served well to watch a few Bill Maher discussions on this very topic.
@Stuart
Maybe in your old age you're getting a bit senile, because I didn't ask you or anyone else for anything. And as far as "detached from reality," you want BILL MAHER, of all people, to lecture anyone on a topic concerning the mediocrity of old white men? That joke just wrote itself.
Your comment speaks for itself. While you are laughing at us and using your insulting terms of calling a 58 y/o senile, we are busy actually being concerned for you and caring about finding moderate balance as we work to build a better society that respects and understands each other.
Exactly!
That panel is really diverse - there are a number of different types of white middle aged men in it.
I have nothing against white middle aged men for good reason - I am one! But let's quit the virtue signalling and promote / recruit on merit so if a team is all women (for example) because they are the best - fantastic and not because there is a quota system.
Maybe we should start with, why do you think those are “older men”? Isn’t that discrimination judging someone’s gender based on appearance
No. Attempting to surmise a person's age and gender based on appears is not discrimination. Thank you for confirming your level of understanding of this subject.
All diversity panels, or anyone who is a professional race/gender peddler, are by definition pathetic.
If more women worked in the aerospace industry, would airplanes and rockets be shaped differently?
Airbus: just STFU and sell/build/service airliners. Make them the world's best. And leave the virtue signaling to others who aren't tasked with building products which people's lives (and livelihoods) depend on.
They already do that. Tell us about all those times that someone died in an Airbus for a reason other than pilot error, in say the last quarter century.
But you on the other hand, don't seem too familiar with the concept of walking and chewing gum.
Oh please, save your attempts to delegitimize my comment by pretending I'm some dullard. In reality, these corporate exercises in virtue signaling are nothing more than a show and a waste of time and resources. And we all know it. Women do fine, there are more women attending (and graduating) universities than men now. So save the the elitist crapola. This is all pure BS.
Who's pretending?
Your followup reveals even more about just how little you comprehend of the issues this addresses than even your idiotic first post.
I also see discrimination because women are given their own mike but men are forced to share.
There are zero Asians even though huge sales are to Asian airlines. There are also no amputees on the panel nor children.
“Gender Diversity Panel” - can you read?
Sometimes what seems true in a photo on social media isn't what it seems.
The irony of this visual isn't lost on me, but Ben's point would have been better made if he could have offered up a few names of women in senior leadership roles in the aerospace industry that should have participated in the panel. I gave it a Google and came across a CEO World article listing the CEOs of the world's largest airlines. Of the 50 CEOs of the largest airlines in the world only...
The irony of this visual isn't lost on me, but Ben's point would have been better made if he could have offered up a few names of women in senior leadership roles in the aerospace industry that should have participated in the panel. I gave it a Google and came across a CEO World article listing the CEOs of the world's largest airlines. Of the 50 CEOs of the largest airlines in the world only 3 are women. It would have been nice to include Anne Rigail of Air France, Jayne Hrdicka of Virgin Australia, or Lynne Embleton of Aer Lingus, but what if all three were busy? On the aircraft side it's equally slim pickings without a single current CEO among the biggest manufacturers and suppliers from what I could find. Interestingly most women in the C-Suite are either are/were in the Defense space like Marillyn Adams Hewson former CEO at Lockheed or Leanne Caret fromer CEO of Boeing Defense or in Iran like Farzaneh Sharafbafi former CEO of Iran Air.
@ DLPTATL -- I can't speak as to whether they were available or not, but here's a great list of literally hundreds of women working in aerospace and aviation in senior roles:
https://futureaviationaerospaceworkforce.com/women-in-aviation-aerospace-defense/
@Ben
Did you reach out to any of these ladies for comment? Were you even there? Do you have the transcripts? Did you properly reach out to ask the men on the panel their thoughts on the strange optics? Did you examine the reasons behind this panel and the choices of each? Or, perhaps did you just "cringe" and write a quick post about "old men" because they bother you?
There're a lot more men who aspire to be aerospace engineers than there are women. Hence, the talent pool of men is vastly greater. Hence, when hiring on merit - majority will be men based on pure mathematics.
The few women who have the same desire and determination of the men they're competing against don't need anybody to "take action for more women in aerospace." They'll make it anyways, cause they're determined, skilled and driven professionals.
And I'm sure there's no rampant sexism or misogyny those "determined, skilled, and driven" women will have to face on their way to the top, right? Or even when trying to enter the field? "Merit" isn't a thing unless everyone has the same opportunity to achieve it.
Yeah, 100%! When we (the straight white masters of all in the universe) gather in our room to discuss who’s allowed to join the ranks, we’d never allow a bch in there!
"The few women who have the same desire and determination of the men they're competing against"? The fact that people still hold such simplistic and archaic viewpoints is the reason why "pipeline problem" exists, not some sort of innate lack of interest imbued by a second X chromosome.
Perhaps this is a pipeline problem where their are just not enough qualified women?
Or “, more likely, qualified women are sidelined snd/or not presented with the opportunities men are.
That’s not a pipeline problem.
yeah yeah, for sure. 100%.
Yet you twice refer to them as "older men." Because they are older does that make them less thoughtful to the issue? I agree that one woman is sort of odd given the discussion. But you are really no better in insinuating that because they are "older men" that it's off kilter. If they were "younger men" would you be happier? Is that supposed to make the discussion more on topic?
@ Stuart -- A panel on gender diversity should be majority made up of people with diverse genders, in my opinion (so... not four men). As far as your question goes, if for whatever reason you can't have sufficient women on the panel, I do think having people with some diversity would add a lot to the discussion.
There's value to having a young person, an old person, a Black person, a queer person, etc.
The panel was on gender diversity, not general diversity. While I agree that having four men and one woman was absurd, the men's age is irrelevant to the subject. And one you actually noted on three occasions in a rather bombastic manner. Your idea was correct, but your obsession with their age makes it sound like you, as well, need some coaching on diversity acceptance.
@ Stuart -- How did it go from two occasions to three occasions?
Oops, two. Thanks for correcting my original count. Now, back to my original point? Or are you going to divert from the topic as to this alone?
@ Stuart -- We've both made our points, and we'll agree to disagree. I'm not sure what else you want me to say? I can respect back to you with the same thing I already said, but that doesn't seem productive.
I appreciate when people call me out, and often learn and say "you know, I didn't phrase that right." In this case, I stand by my point.
@Ben. I guess you are too young and naive to understand.
See how it sounds in reverse?
I would hope that they have the most senior (career not age, though the two tend to track) and influential speakers prepared to speak on the topic rather than including less qualified participants purely for the sake of optics. I tried to find out who the panelists and moderator were, but haven't been able to locate names/roles to in any way help determine if these were the best available speakers for the topic.
How do you know the four people on the panel are not diverse? Based solely on their appearance in the photo? Wouldn't that be wrong to make assumptions about what gender someone identifies as based on a photo? Maybe they come from different backgrounds, have different beliefs, different religions... Gender, race and age are not the only things that make people diverse.
I don't care if the person flying the plane I'm on sits or...
How do you know the four people on the panel are not diverse? Based solely on their appearance in the photo? Wouldn't that be wrong to make assumptions about what gender someone identifies as based on a photo? Maybe they come from different backgrounds, have different beliefs, different religions... Gender, race and age are not the only things that make people diverse.
I don't care if the person flying the plane I'm on sits or stands, has an innie or an outie, who they choose to sleep with... Same for the flight attendants. Just do your job which is to get me safely to my destination. It's not their job to educate me or influence my social life or expose me to diversity.