Airline CEOs can say some interesting things at times, and here’s the latest example of that…
In this post:
Barry Biffle wants to add restrictions on private jets
Frontier Airlines CEO Barry Biffle is a smart guy (despite the carrier’s challenging financial state), and he’s an important voice in the airline industry. That’s in part because he’s often campaigning for different things than what the CEOs of the “big four” carriers are asking for, given his company’s different business model and challenges.
So while Biffle is often going after lack of competition in the industry, plus slot controls at airports, he now has a new target — private jets. Biffle took to LinkedIn, to share how he’s campaigning to add restrictions on private jet flights. Here’s what he wrote (and I just added some spacing, to make it easier to read):
Have you ever had your flight cancelled due to ATC or a ground stop? Was it a peak day like Thanksgiving Sunday, 12/26, New Years Day or Pres Day? Were you flying out of Florida? If it happens again take a look and see how many PJs are flying that day.
Here’s what happens. Airlines have to file their flight plan at the same time as our schedule. A private jet wants to leave at the same time. They and we know we will likely get a ground delay program of two or three hours. The PJ simply files for an earlier time and then gets to leave when they wanted to leave once they get the delay program.
Sadly, airlines often end up having to cancel because these delays stack up and time out our crews. There’s a simple solution for this and the FAA already has it available. They control high demand events like the Super Bowl already by setting reservations.
I’m meeting with the FAA next week and hoping we can get traction on common sense approaches that allow us to stop cancelling flights ruining vacations for hundreds of people to benefit a few flying from Palm Beach to NY.
We all need to demand common sense approaches to protecting travel for the masses. Download this app so you can see who is flying when your flight gets cancelled. I will let you know how the FAA meeting goes.
Does Biffle have a point about private jet flights?
In theory, I agree with the premise of what Biffle is saying. There’s no denying that private jets contribute to crowding in the skies, and when there’s a ground delay program, it’s pretty wild how a private jet that might be carrying two people gets no less priority than a jet carrying 200 people. If we’re going to look at this from a “greatest good for the greatest number of people” standpoint, he’s absolutely right. However, I think there are three important counterpoints…
First of all, I think Biffle is probably overestimating the extent to which private jet operators are essentially “gaming the system” and creating fake departure times in anticipation of ground delay programs. That’s not so easy to do if you have a customer onboard, since it could be that the ground delay program doesn’t actually work out as you expect. So is this a minor issue? Yes. But I think on the list of things that cause Frontier Airlines flight delays, this doesn’t rank anywhere near the top.
Second of all, other US airlines (not Frontier) aren’t exactly doing a great job helping with congestion either. Just look at how at some of the most congested and slot controlled airports in the country, regional jets are the most common aircraft type. Of course carrying 76 passengers is better than carrying two passengers, but still…
Third of all, the United States is unique in having a vast majority of airports be government owned and public use. It’s a pretty special aspect of our aviation ecosystem, as airports are generally available to any user, and access isn’t just given to the highest bidder.
So it’s kind of funny, because airports in the United States are “democratized” a bit more than in other parts of the world. But in this case, the benefit of that is primarily to the wealthy, with those less well off paying the price.
Bottom line
Frontier Airlines CEO Barry Biffle is claiming that private jets are to blame for many airline delays. When ground delay programs go into effect, he states that private jet operators often game the system, claiming they have an earlier departure time than they really do, in anticipation of a ground delay.
While his points may be true to some extent, I think in the scheme of things that cause delays, that doesn’t really rank up there. I’m curious exactly what Biffle wants the FAA to do, so let’s see what comes of this…
What do you make of Biffle’s private jet commentary?
It feels like a smokescreen from a guy who can't get his airline working properly.
Blame the rich. Yeah, that'll sell.
Any comment making light of him blaming PJs Private Jets is censored!
Blaming others for frontqueers lousy service
A “smart guy”? Has he ever booked passage or used his own website, for anything ? This airline is joke.
Biffle is deflecting Frontier's mismanagement. Florida's problem is a combination of a narrow corridor, short-staffed JAX ATC, tropical storms, and increased TFRs by SpaceX and the President in the last few years.
I actually agree with him. I didn’t know private jets caused this problem so I learned something and I think that private jets should be given a lower priority than scheduled passenger jets now that I know this. I think a fair solution is first come first served. If the passenger jet already has their schedule on the books then when a private jet comes along, the FAA ought to have to look at traffic...
I actually agree with him. I didn’t know private jets caused this problem so I learned something and I think that private jets should be given a lower priority than scheduled passenger jets now that I know this. I think a fair solution is first come first served. If the passenger jet already has their schedule on the books then when a private jet comes along, the FAA ought to have to look at traffic and see if they can fit the private jet in at their newly requested time without delaying an airliner that’s already reserved their time. If not, then the private jet should be made to get in line behind the scheduled airline departures. However, I’d be willing to bet that tight crew scheduling close to the maximum duty hours and not having sufficient staffing of standby reserves are far more to blame for Frontier’s cancellations than private jets. Is Barry Biffle sure that he wants his passengers to use this app? Sure, they may see some private jets occasionally but what I imagine they’ll much more of is United and Delta flights still taking off while his flights are cancelled. I think that might not be too smart.
Ben hits the nail on the head with his second point, airline congestion. The big 3 keep adding routes and gobble up slots when they have to opportunity. The ATC system has been taxed for 2 decades and the antiquated technology adds to the crunch. Corporate greed and wanting to stuff more asses in seats exacerbates the problem. Perhaps the FAA should throttle back the airlines so as to ease the strain on the system....
Ben hits the nail on the head with his second point, airline congestion. The big 3 keep adding routes and gobble up slots when they have to opportunity. The ATC system has been taxed for 2 decades and the antiquated technology adds to the crunch. Corporate greed and wanting to stuff more asses in seats exacerbates the problem. Perhaps the FAA should throttle back the airlines so as to ease the strain on the system. The airline route structure continues to blossom at the risk of the flying public. If ATC does not have enough controllers then an adjustment has to be made by limiting these burgeoning airline schedules until the system can be made whole again.
He's wrong. Frontier suffers from tardiness because Frontier has less of a hub and spoke system and has less aircraft ready at the station in case of a maintenance issue. Add the not perfectly mastered process of moving people at Frontier that frequently causes pilots to time out. The truth is that crews timing out because of delays is what hurts his airline which suffers a poor on time ability without any other aircraft private...
He's wrong. Frontier suffers from tardiness because Frontier has less of a hub and spoke system and has less aircraft ready at the station in case of a maintenance issue. Add the not perfectly mastered process of moving people at Frontier that frequently causes pilots to time out. The truth is that crews timing out because of delays is what hurts his airline which suffers a poor on time ability without any other aircraft private or commercial even having to do with it.
What a cry baby. If he ran a decent airline,he would not be whining. They claim to be a budget airline, I have checked their fares,by the time you add in bag fees, carry on fees, water bottle fees, the Big 4 are cheaper. So, suck it up,and put on your big boy panties.
It’s an interesting argument. I recommend serious readers and responders take two hours to listen to the recent 2-part episode on the Freakonomics Radio podcast that does a sober, deep-dive into the strengths and shortcomings of our ATC system, including a fascinating interview with the president of the NBAA.
He is correct with PBI. If you try to depart on a Sunday around 4pm Jan-March, you are going to be in a long line of NetJets and other private aircraft. I assume this is more location specific.
Private Jets do not cause many of the Frontier 9 and 10 hour delays.
That's on Frontier and their sorry ass operation.
It's the biggest problem at Newark where they have to share takeoff slots with Teterboro and the private jets. 200 people waiting to take off but have to wait for one guy in a private plane. been that way for years
The solution is simple, make private planes use separate airport only for private planes and charge them the fees to maintain them. The rich get to keep their privilege but pay for it.
PBI loves collecting landing fees from private aviation and the NetJets base supports some well paying jobs for locals. Doubt the airport wants to lose the revenue stream.
"Democratized" probably isn't the right word. I think "socialized" fits better. Socialism for rich people.
An earlier comment notes Aspen/Pitkin. Bingo. During peak times the private jets use a variety of antics to take over the airspace and limited landing slots leaving several hundred passengers a day stranded at ASE outbound and diverted to grand junction or stuck in Denver.
That's what you pay for a in a private jet. Luxury and flexibility because there is at most what 10-12 passengers. Can't do that with a 200+ A321.
I actually agree with him, as a 121 pilot it can be infuriating what the PJ guys do. For example Aspen, PJ guys routinely file to Rifle on busy days to avoid delays to ASE then the whole descent they beg DEN Center and ASE approach if they could just squeeze them in lol. Sadly enough it actually works, just one small example.
Ah, yes, Aspen/Pitkin County Airport, ASE, a great example... for Frontier's target market.
(Imagine, once they expand the runway there, it could accept a fully-loaded a321 from Las Vegas... to go ski at Aspen/Snowmass.)
There are a handful of airports including some listed here including EWR (right next to Teterboro) and PBI where private jets have a high percentage of traffic - but F9 is not the largest airline in any of those markets.
and general aviation and private jets pay taxes just like commercial aviation - and those taxes are a higher percentage of costs per passenger than for commercial aviation.
it is also is noteworthy that...
There are a handful of airports including some listed here including EWR (right next to Teterboro) and PBI where private jets have a high percentage of traffic - but F9 is not the largest airline in any of those markets.
and general aviation and private jets pay taxes just like commercial aviation - and those taxes are a higher percentage of costs per passenger than for commercial aviation.
it is also is noteworthy that he doesn't address prop aircraft - probably because ATC does a pretty good job of separating slower prop traffic from jet traffic even if they all have to compete for the same runway space.
I have enjoyed flying into major airports in Class B airspace in a single engine prop plane and know that I get my time on the runway just like a 321 or 787
The "higher percent per passenger" is the wrong metric. Once in the ATC system, a jet is a jet. And business jets pay far less per flight than passenger jets into the trust fund, despite using similar resources for each flight.
A dentist in his 172 is obviously a different beast. But business jets pay too little.
This 100% true with Aspen airport especially around holidays.
It truly is a gamble at ASE with weather, barometric pressure, one runway, and PJ traffic hogging the runway.
It’s an easy attack that appeals to populist sentiment, but I think the majority of private flights are using airports without airline service, like Teterboro where they don’t have to stack up behind dozens of airliners like they would at Laguardia. I know there is still some private at big airports, but I doubt banning it would make a big difference. Airports make money with private, not just with steep landing fees, but also hangars...
It’s an easy attack that appeals to populist sentiment, but I think the majority of private flights are using airports without airline service, like Teterboro where they don’t have to stack up behind dozens of airliners like they would at Laguardia. I know there is still some private at big airports, but I doubt banning it would make a big difference. Airports make money with private, not just with steep landing fees, but also hangars and maintenance facilities on the field that employ lots of people.
It's not as much about the airports as it is the surrounding airspace. New York and Florida both have a high density of airports, which naturally leads to congestion. Take Teterboro. Even though the airport has no airline service, it still feeds into the same airspace as JFK, LGA, and EWR, all airports with a lot of air traffic.
The Frontier CEO was specifically addressing ground traffic, but you’re right, you can’t separate one from the other. His argument then becomes a much less appealing attack on all general aviation, including Cessnas and Pipers. Instead of railing against the “fat cats” in private jets, he’s basically arguing that the national airspace surrounding commercial airports should be dedicated to airlines. That’s a slippery slope back to pre-1978 airline regulation, which the Frontier CEO won’t like.
The Frontier CEO was specifically addressing ground traffic, but you’re right, you can’t separate one from the other. His argument then becomes a much less appealing attack on all general aviation, including Cessnas and Pipers. Instead of railing against the “fat cats” in private jets, he’s basically arguing that the national airspace surrounding commercial airports should be dedicated to airlines. That’s a slippery slope back to pre-1978 airline regulation, which the Frontier CEO won’t like.
John says, "The Frontier CEO was specifically addressing ground traffic"
He is addressing air traffic control 'ground delay programs' are usually the result of airspace limitations often caused by enroute weather among other things. It's not a matter of ground traffic.
Well, Teterboro is about to get interesting as JSX (arguably, a 'public charter' with 'scheduled' flights, as opposed to true 'private') is starting flights from there, using a loophole with bookings done through their frequent flyer program (and the PANYNJ let that happen). Already, XE1114 operates from TEB-FXE (Fort Lauderdale Executive), as recently as yesterday, Monday, October 13 (even in the rain and wind, wow!) Anyway, seems good for competition.
"That’s not so easy to do if you have a customer onboard, since it could be that the ground delay program doesn’t actually work out as you expect"
At the same time, can't the private jet operator then just claim something else as a delay? Worst comes to worst, they are right back where they would be if they weren't trying to game it, best outcome is they shave time off their delay.
Yeah, this is the part @Ben I'm not sure gets. Say you're expecting a 3 hr ground delay, and you want to leave at 2:30p. You file for noon (which would mean a ~3:00p departure time), and then your customers get on at 2:30p. Since GDPs are often a little pessimistic, you're likely leaving 2:40p or 2:50p.
If somehow the release comes way sooner (e.g. 2:00p) you just cancel and re-file. Of if its just...
Yeah, this is the part @Ben I'm not sure gets. Say you're expecting a 3 hr ground delay, and you want to leave at 2:30p. You file for noon (which would mean a ~3:00p departure time), and then your customers get on at 2:30p. Since GDPs are often a little pessimistic, you're likely leaving 2:40p or 2:50p.
If somehow the release comes way sooner (e.g. 2:00p) you just cancel and re-file. Of if its just a few mins (2:20pm), you can just stall a bit. Either way, you're saving your PJ passengers lots of time.