Delta Plans Airbus A321neos With 44(!!!) First Class Seats… Temporarily

Delta Plans Airbus A321neos With 44(!!!) First Class Seats… Temporarily

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In 2026, Delta Air Lines plans to introduce a very premium domestic narrow body aircraft, with a staggering 44 first class seats. However, this isn’t by design, but is instead to make the most of a frustrating situation. I first covered this last week, but this has now been confirmed by the airline, so we have some more details about what we can expect.

Delta planning 164-seat A321neos, with 44 first class seats

JonNYC was first to report that Delta intends to introduce a new Airbus A321neo configuration featuring dozens of first class seats. Specifically, this configuration is expected to feature 44 first class seats, 54 extra legroom economy seats, and 66 standard economy seats.

DL: I wonder WTF this 321Neo subfleet config that has 44 (!) first class seats is? New charter config or something? (just a terrible guess.) Possibly coming next year.

JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) 2025-09-17T04:35:18.047Z

As a point of comparison, Delta’s standard A321neos have 194 seats, including 20 first class seats, 60 extra legroom economy seats, and 114 standard economy seats.

Zach Griff reports that the current plan is for these planes with 44 first class seats to enter service as of the summer of 2026, and that up to seven of these planes will be flying.

With the amount of premium demand nowadays, plus given how lucrative loyalty programs are, I’ve long argued that US carriers should increase the average size of their first class cabins. However, introducing a cabin with 44 first class seats is quite the stretch! So, what’s actually going on here?

Delta’s standard Airbus A321neos have 20 first class seats

Delta is making the best of A321neos in storage

I’ve written about how Delta plans to introduce a new subfleet of Airbus A321neos, which will be in a premium configuration. The airline plans to add 21 of these A321neos to its fleet, specifically for premium transcontinental flights.

These planes are expected to feature just 148 seats, including 16 business class seats, 12 premium economy seats, 54 extra legroom economy seats, and 66 standard economy seats. However, several of these planes are now in storage, as Delta is having issues with getting the business class seats certified (that’s very Lufthansa of them, eh?).

With there seemingly being no end in sight to these certification issues, the plan is for Delta to put these planes into service with modified interiors. Keep in mind that the premium economy seats on these planes are comparable to domestic first class, so the idea is that in place of the 16 business class seats, the airline will instead temporarily install 32 first class seats.

I can’t find fault with this person’s input! (Unconfirmed)“With no end in sight for the Safran Vue business class seat to be certified, they are taking the planes sitting in the desert..

JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) 2025-09-17T13:04:55.575Z

.. (with an empty business class section) and filling them in with Recaro First Class seats. Note the C+ and MC seat counts are the same as what was leaked for the TCON config. They will be put into normal revenue service. Don’t know where yet. Better than paying for brand new aircraft to sit…”

JonNYC (@xjonnyc.bsky.social) 2025-09-17T13:05:53.598Z

Parking planes for years is obviously costly, so this seems like a logical enough way for Delta to get some use out of these planes, until those certification issues can be worked out. Besides, the airline can temporarily install these first class seats on the plane, and then later install them on other newly delivered A321neos.

Delta claims that it will share more details in 2026, as it “continually explores new ways to make the most of our fleet to better serve our customers and support our business,” and that “select A321neo aircraft are expected to begin their entrance into service next year with an updated seat configuration designed with comfort in mind.”

What’s pretty wild to me is that Delta took delivery of the first of these planes in October 2024, and it’s expected to enter service in the summer of 2026 with modified interiors. So after the plane is parked for nearly two years, it’ll then get a temporary interior.

Delta must be having some really massive, Lufthansa level certification issues with its new business class seats on those planes for things to play out this way. After all, Delta wouldn’t configure these planes in this way if it expected that the seats would be certified by late 2026 or early 2027, as it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

With 44 first class seats, they better increase staffing on these planes, or else service will be challenging. For that matter, it’ll be hard to put these on actually premium routes, since I can’t imagine there’s enough space in the ovens to actually heat 44 first class meals.

Bottom line

In 2026, Delta has plans to introduce a new Airbus A321neo layout with a staggering 44 first class seats. What’s going on here is that Delta has brand new A321neos that are supposed to get flat beds, but the airline seemingly can’t get those seats certified.

So rather than keeping these planes in storage forever, Delta plans to fly up to seven of these with standard domestic first class seats in the space of the business class cabin. I just find the timeline here to be pretty wild, given that we’re talking about a plane that was delivered in October 2024 entering service in the summer of 2026 with temporary interiors. So when will these planes actually fly with the intended interiors? 2028, best case scenario?

What do you make of Delta’s planned premium A321neo configuration situation?

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  1. 9volt Diamond

    Are they going to have to add ovens in the aft galley as well? I can't imagine they'll be able to heat up 44 meals using only the forward galley. I mean, I guess they could but meal service would take an extraordinary long time.

  2. Matt H Gold

    Can we stop promoting Bluesky? X is clearly the superior platform for aviation news.

  3. Albert Guest

    Any chance of an article explaining why seats (more than one type) are failing certification?
    Is it designers not thinking about safety requirements at the beginning of the project; regulators changing the tests, or what?

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      there is an article someplace else that says that the FAA and EASA are not accepting test results from previous designs that have been modified as much as used to be the case.
      Also, many of the electronics including large screens create much higher risks than smaller or no screens.

      The relatively few companies that do this type of testing are also used by automakers to crash test seats for cars so there is a huge backlog.

  4. Jeff Guest

    Is there a reason why they can’t take delivery in the standard A321neo cabin config and then later take delivery in the new transcon A321neo cabin config when the new Delta One seat gets certified?

    Delta has 58 standard A321neos on order. Why not prioritize deliver of these, which are already certified for service, in the mean time?

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      presumably, some of these planes already had the rest of the cabin already installed except for the Delta One seats. They may not have the other seats to just rip out the rest of the cabins and put a standard domestic A321 cabin in.

      Also, DL continues to retire older aircraft so they need new planes coming in somehow.

      These planes will only have about 30 fewer seats than the standard domestic A321 so the chances are pretty high they can make these work.

  5. Conor Guest

    I can see some of these modified aircraft replacing 757s out of SNA which have MAJOR takeoff restrictions with a321s for flights to Atlanta and possibly an expansion into the northeast.

  6. FlyerDon Guest

    I’m sure the Philadelphia Phillies would love to see some of these aircraft become part of an updated charter fleet for Delta. I don’t think they liked getting into Burbank at 2AM the other morning after a five hour maintenance delay leaving Philly.

  7. Cookthesoup Guest

    That first class lavatory line is going to be a problem.

    1. AeroB13a Guest

      Cookthesoup, as there is no first class cabin on this aircraft, with this configuration, lavatory lines will only apply to the economy and premium economy passengers, yes?

  8. Mary Guest

    This is such a confusing article

    Could you please stop referring to narrowbody premium seats as "first class" or "business class" or whatever? Makes the article impossible to follow.

    Just refer to their attributes: 1-1 lie-flat, 2-2 recliners, 3-3 extra legroom Economy, etc.

    Thank you for your attention to this important matter.

    1. BradStPete Diamond

      Thank God I am not the only one not following this story

    2. Joe Guest

      Delta refers to their lie flat seats as business class (Delta One) and their recliners as premium economy (Premium Select) and 1st class depending on the plane configuration as both PS and 1st class use recliners. Additionally, D1 and PS are sold as 1st class and Comfort+ respectively on non-premium transcon domestic flights within the lower 48 states using D1 equipped planes and 1st class is sold as PS on intercontinental flights using non-D1 equipped...

      Delta refers to their lie flat seats as business class (Delta One) and their recliners as premium economy (Premium Select) and 1st class depending on the plane configuration as both PS and 1st class use recliners. Additionally, D1 and PS are sold as 1st class and Comfort+ respectively on non-premium transcon domestic flights within the lower 48 states using D1 equipped planes and 1st class is sold as PS on intercontinental flights using non-D1 equipped planes like 737s and most of their 757s.

  9. iamhere Guest

    I think you should consider how it looks. If there are very few economy seats but a lot of domestic first seats then the chance of getting an upgrade is high. If there are relatively few domestic first seats then it is part of the game that high status members are involved in. Also consider the economics. They earn more on an economy seat domestically because most people are paying for that seat. Although loyalty...

    I think you should consider how it looks. If there are very few economy seats but a lot of domestic first seats then the chance of getting an upgrade is high. If there are relatively few domestic first seats then it is part of the game that high status members are involved in. Also consider the economics. They earn more on an economy seat domestically because most people are paying for that seat. Although loyalty programs are a big money maker, not based on the seat or plane.

    1. Tim Dunn Diamond

      I would bet that DL will price the relatively few economy seats high - not just because there are few of them but because that will be the price of the upgrade.

      They will still have more seats than the 737-800 and A320s have but a high percentage of first class seats

  10. Tim Guest

    Breeze’s first A220’s essentially had 36 Premium Eco seats with 39” pitch which was more than a third of the cabin. Few were willling to pay so they now have 12 seats. It was awesome for transcon flights.

  11. Jay Guest

    There is no way 44 meals can be placed on the First Class Galley on a narrow body
    That will be a challenging overall service

    1. JustinB Diamond

      Wouldn't be surprised if they only cater the covid-era cold boxed meals on these planes. They seem to keep them on hand - had a day-of aircraft swap from a 321 to a 339 recently, so suddenly they needed way more J meals and the covid-era boxed meals is what we got.

    2. NK3 Diamond

      These planes had oven issues already. When first introduced, you could not preorder meals because of the oven size. Eventually they got smaller bowls that allowed for enough to fit in the oven.

  12. Tim Dunn Diamond

    Didn't Ben cover that AA has parked an A321NEO someplace in Europe. Have AA and DL selected the same seat?

  13. ImmortalSynn Guest

    While this is 99% wishful thinking: we'd better say prayers and light candles that Delta finds some unexpected success in deploying this type of configuration for scheduled service, wherever they place it.

    If they do, it could actually be the start of something grand: a market below lie-flat transcons, but above regular domestic configurations.

    There'd still be time for Delta to configure some of their incoming MAX-10s, to address that, if so. But again,...

    While this is 99% wishful thinking: we'd better say prayers and light candles that Delta finds some unexpected success in deploying this type of configuration for scheduled service, wherever they place it.

    If they do, it could actually be the start of something grand: a market below lie-flat transcons, but above regular domestic configurations.

    There'd still be time for Delta to configure some of their incoming MAX-10s, to address that, if so. But again, it's probably just wishful thinking. If these routes just become "upgraders' paradise" then there's no chance of them sticking around in that configuration, long term.

    1. kimshep Guest

      Best and most rational comment of the day, ImmortalSynn !

      It completely debunks the inherent US belief that "everything flight-related" is determined by price, even down to the last dollar. Kudos !

  14. Justin Guest

    Doesn’t Delta also have charter configured 757s with a lot of first class seats? Maybe this A321NEO config could be used for charter

  15. JustinB Diamond

    Hopefully the revenue data supports and this leads to 24 first class seats in future 321neos and max9s

  16. Sel, D. Guest

    Rumor has it a select few Delta 360 members might receive an upgrade on these flights.

    1. Brian W Guest

      Sounds like a lot of in app buy up offers will be coming to Delta flyers for this plane.

  17. jnrfalcon Guest

    The airline that made the most out of a premium boom putting in more premium products to capture more of the premium boom. I can't say anything about long term, but I totally get the thinking behind it.

    1. AeroB13a Diamond

      Absolutely, jnrfalcon …. Premium economy seats rule the U.S. domestic market.

  18. Echo Guest

    Finally! A complimentary upgrade might clear.

  19. Raghav Guest

    This makes me wonder why couldn't lufthansa have done something similar. There must some second hand seats seats certified for 787 available. they may not be cutting edge but at least its better than none at all.

  20. AeroB13a Diamond

    Sorry Ben, also those who talk these seats up to be First Class …. to the discerning passengers, these seats are simply premium economy seats which just happen to convert to lie flat beds.
    The lie flat action alone does not and will never make them anything more than last century business class seats.
    It is all very well attempting to talk up this product, it might work in the U.S. market, but...

    Sorry Ben, also those who talk these seats up to be First Class …. to the discerning passengers, these seats are simply premium economy seats which just happen to convert to lie flat beds.
    The lie flat action alone does not and will never make them anything more than last century business class seats.
    It is all very well attempting to talk up this product, it might work in the U.S. market, but never on the world stage. A domestic small ‘p’, premium economy seat, only folks, yes?

    1. AeroB13a Diamond

      Ok JonNYC …. I will bite, do explain if you are capable?

    2. jnrfalcon Guest

      The seats are made for your butt and for your sleep, but no no no, let the mouth run free

    3. AeroB13a Diamond

      To whom are you directing your comment to jnrfalcon, you do not elaborate. Therefore, one must assume that it is to the glimmer jonNYC, to whom you are referring, yes?

    4. AeroB13a Diamond

      But, jnrfalcon. Your “Mouth is running free” and saying absolutely nothing. Anyone with a modicum of commercial airline passenger knowledge can see the reality of this U.S. domestic market hype. Furthermore, when compared with World Class airlines and their products, this Delta stopgap measure can be seen for what it is …. premium economy seating.

    5. Not sure what they're on about... Guest

      You are not alone, AeroB13a, I'm not even sure if the criticism is aimed at you, or what the criticism is meant to add up to.

      "That's so incredibly stupid"

      "The seats are made for your butt and for your sleep, but no no no, let the mouth run free"

      Not gonna name names, but I think certain prominent people in society have modeled a certain semi coherent rant style of response to statements of facts they don't like.

    6. Joel Guest

      You clearly have never traveled on premium cabins around the world much.

      Aside from Singapore Airlines (whom I’m not a fan of for a variety of reasons, but that’s for another day), most other short-haul flights operated even by the “premium airlines” you’re likely thinking of are with recliner seats. Those that you akin to premium economy. And have you even seen the nonsense they try to pass off in Europe?

      Do some actual traveling...

      You clearly have never traveled on premium cabins around the world much.

      Aside from Singapore Airlines (whom I’m not a fan of for a variety of reasons, but that’s for another day), most other short-haul flights operated even by the “premium airlines” you’re likely thinking of are with recliner seats. Those that you akin to premium economy. And have you even seen the nonsense they try to pass off in Europe?

      Do some actual traveling before you comment about what you think is industry standard or isn’t. As someone who’s now based in Southeast Asia, and travels around Asia & Europe very often, I can say that the US has it pretty good with air travel in comparison with premiun products. Asia has a huge presence LCCs and full-service flights are also incredibly expensive most of the time, be it on economy or business, sometimes costing around $2k for a 1.5 hour flight on a Singapore Airlines business class recliner seat where they don’t even serve champagne. For the most part, flights in the US are fairly reasonable, at least in comparison, for stations that have decent enough traffic.

      Or are you so unseasoned to not realize that domestic first class is a whole different category entirely and you’re thinking of it as international first class?

      In any case, your comments are absolutely embarrassing for you, irrelevant to everyone else, and frankly - if you’re an American - an absolute disgrace to our country for being one of those who does nothing but hate on our own country. If you aren’t an American, don’t go around commenting about subjects you’re clearly so uneducated about.

    7. AeroB13a Guest

      Joel …. Clearly someone has rattled your cage old bean.

      Perhaps, rather than gibbering on like a demented child, you might consider taking a leaf out of Ben’s book? Ben affords his readers the courtesy of naming those to whom his comments are directed. Because your outburst is featured in a thread which contains several contributors, perhaps it would be helpful if you named your target too Joel, yes?

    8. Joel Guest

      To OP: This is a comments section, not Model UN. I’m not going to bother about following anything and I’m just going to respond however I like. Clearly you’re absolutely demented, finding the format is what you should give a response to, which is absolute absurdity because… well, this is a comments section of a blog. Also, you’re the OP - obviously my first comment was directed at you. I guess along with not knowing...

      To OP: This is a comments section, not Model UN. I’m not going to bother about following anything and I’m just going to respond however I like. Clearly you’re absolutely demented, finding the format is what you should give a response to, which is absolute absurdity because… well, this is a comments section of a blog. Also, you’re the OP - obviously my first comment was directed at you. I guess along with not knowing flight products, you have no clue of how online forums work either.

      And if you think I was agitated, you clearly don’t have very much social interactions with anyone to think that pointing out fallacies is “targeting” you. Classic self-victimization.

      Your very obvious lack of gray matter clearly extends beyond airline products, but to logic as well.

      Keep on going, we’re munching on popcorn while we watch you unravel. At least until we run out of interest probably within the next 24 hours while you simmer at us just spitting facts about your lack of knowledge.

    9. AeroB13a Diamond

      Joel, one feels obliged to thank you for your pathetic post. Being as you are such a droll creature it is a real pleasure to be given this opportunity to respond. One has to also point out that you being a self opinionated numpty, you make yourself such an easy target for ridicule sunshine. In point of fact, one has to feel rather sorry for any family which you might have, they must be extremely...

      Joel, one feels obliged to thank you for your pathetic post. Being as you are such a droll creature it is a real pleasure to be given this opportunity to respond. One has to also point out that you being a self opinionated numpty, you make yourself such an easy target for ridicule sunshine. In point of fact, one has to feel rather sorry for any family which you might have, they must be extremely embarrassed by being related to such a know nothing like you. The poor darlinks, you must be such a drag on their lives.

      Joel, you cannot even imagine what one might, or might not, know about the ailing U.S. civil aviation industry. One thing that is crystal clear to everyone is your very own ignorance, an ignorance which is typical of one who has been exposed to the U.S. MAGA propaganda machine for far too long old bean.

      Should you be blessed with more than the one brain cell, then you would refrain from assuming anything about my own aviation experience. Because one chooses to ignore the U.S. propaganda piffle, does not mean that one is not aware of its existence. Enlightened people know only too well what to make of your assumptions …. poor, poor popcorn muncher.

      On a more serious note, one hopes that you do not get so obese whilst “Munching on popcorn”, that you have to be removed from your trailer by CATERPILLAR TELEHANDLER. However, if you are almost there already, one is certain that someone from your swamp will assist with your extraction to the old folks assisted living facility. Your dementia and obesity will need drastic remedial therapy Joel, good luck with that challenge ….

      Afterthought: Real aviators log their flight time in hours not miles. Some ex-professional world travellers have not set foot in anything but F or J cabins for decades. Discerning world travellers know better than to set foot on a U.S. domestic airline flight.

    10. AeroB13a Diamond

      Joel …. Clearly someone has rattled your cage old bean.

      Perhaps, rather than gibbering on like a demented child, you might consider taking a leaf out of Ben’s book? Ben affords his readers the courtesy of naming those to whom his comments are directed. Because your outburst is featured in a thread which contains several contributors, perhaps it would be helpful if you named your target too Joel, yes?

    11. Gray Guest

      Can someone please bring the snack basket by? I want some popcorn...

    12. KR Guest

      Calm down, tough guy.

  21. Emil Guest

    My initial thought was the lack of ovens. So what I’m assuming, delta being delta, will just keep them on flights under 900 miles so they don’t have issues with consistency.

    1. Timtamtrak Diamond

      I had the same thought, but the planes were likely delivered with ovens - just maybe not enough ovens for 44 hot meals, depends if they opted for ovens with capacity for extended racks. Id guess you’d see restrictions on how many pre-order hot meals were available and more cold choices.

    2. Gray Guest

      And this could be resolved by y working up more/better cold dishes (he says, digging into his smoked salmon).

    3. Steven E Guest

      Imagine the service - I’m sure the crew are thrilled with this config

    4. neogucky Gold

      It will be like in Europe on maxed-out "business class"-cabins. You get your meal + 1 drink at some point between start and landing and are lucky if they take the plates before landing.

  22. Super Diamond

    This will be the king of the status upgrade route then. Buy MC+ and get an almost guaranteed free Business Class upgrade. Unless they run into issues with a too front heavy plane and need to distribute loads?

    1. Timtamtrak Diamond

      Having fewer passengers up front would make the plane tail-heavy, but based on some edge-of-a-napkin math this configuration shouldn’t violate any weight and balance “rules.”

      4 domestic first class/PE seats likely weigh less or about the same than the lie-flat seats intended for the space.

  23. NedsKid Diamond

    They could fly them on ATL-HSV and still have Diamond million milers sitting in regular legroom coach seats. But think about all of the $49 upgrades they could sell!!

    1. Felix Guest

      Imagine the diamond million miler just booking the class he wants to travel. Crazy right

  24. betterbub Diamond

    Who needs a lie flat seat on a transcon flight? I'd rather they just do this

    1. --- Guest

      Lie-flat is very useful on the transcon red-eye flights. And you're able to do this if you want it - it's premium select.

    2. jnrfalcon Guest

      The difference between letting your butt carry your weight for 6 hrs vs letting your entire back and legs carry the same weight for at least 4 hrs out of that 6.

    3. AeroB13a Diamond

      Absolutely jnr, premium economy seats rule over cattle class every time! …. :-)

    4. Tom Guest

      Right. YOU would rather. Therefore, no one else would want one. Let's just engineer the entire universe based on what YOU want. Are you a Millennial or a Gen Z?

    5. AeroB13a Guest

      To whom do you address your post Tom?
      Quite frankly it does not make much sense old bean.

    6. Generational Divide Guest

      LOL it's boomers and Gen X who think the world revolves around them. Which it does, as they've clung to power and wealth like Gollum did with the one ring.

  25. Greg Guest

    It’ll be funny if these turn out to be the best performing (in terms of profit) aircraft in the fleet, and it makes DL and others think harder about more premium-heavy configurations!

  26. JD Guest

    This is pretty cool and creative. Now maybe Diamonds out of ATL have a chance at getting an upgrade! ;)

  27. Harold Guest

    still going to be diamonds whose free upgrade wont clear out of ATL

  28. Tim Dunn Diamond

    it was obvious that the failure of the 321NEO D1 certification test meant something had to happen.

    This is certainly a temporary fix until a new D1 321NEO seat can be installed.

    Well suited for ATL west markets. only 10 more premium seats than on the 764 although these are really Premium Select seats

    btw, commendations to Jon for breaking this if it turns out to be true.

    1. Eskimo Guest

      You didn't like Jon...

      Did you actually mean
      "btw, commendations to Jon for breaking this if it turns out to be positive about Delta."

    2. Tim Dunn Diamond

      I don't know Jon. He, like me, is an internet username.
      I can't like or dislike a person I don't know.

      I do like and dislike things that Jon has done and have communicated that.

    3. MaxPower Diamond

      You really should consider going back to reread your own drunk commentary sometime, Tim.
      You seem to black out about half of your usual rants in your brain.

  29. Sharon Guest

    These planes were scheduled for service out of NY and Boston primarily to SFO and LAX. They won’t be used in place of delta one.

    Will be interesting where Delta deploys these too.

  30. yoloswag420 Guest

    This makes some sense at least.

    The US3 airlines have not gotten their premium narrowbody plans off the ground, might as well use them to do some money-making in the meantime.

    Curious which routes will use them though given that this is such a high number of premium seats, but NYC transcons warrant using lieflats.

    1. dx Guest

      I'd say any transcon route out of JFK, BOS, or ATL that doesn't currently have flat beds/D1 is a candidate for this as most people are expecting Delta to expand premium transcon service once the seats do get certified.

      So think routes like:
      JFK-SEA
      JFK-SAN
      BOS-SEA
      BOS-SAN
      ATL-SFO
      ATL-SEA

      LAX-Hawaii might be another candidate at peak times like spring break.

      ANC and KEF already have D1 from JFK during...

      I'd say any transcon route out of JFK, BOS, or ATL that doesn't currently have flat beds/D1 is a candidate for this as most people are expecting Delta to expand premium transcon service once the seats do get certified.

      So think routes like:
      JFK-SEA
      JFK-SAN
      BOS-SEA
      BOS-SAN
      ATL-SFO
      ATL-SEA

      LAX-Hawaii might be another candidate at peak times like spring break.

      ANC and KEF already have D1 from JFK during peak summer (and I think also either ATL or MSP for ANC) so I'll leave those out.

    2. AeroB13a Diamond

      Can one assume dx, that DL will limit this premium economy cabin layout to the U.S. domestic market?

    3. dx Guest

      Maybe also for Caribbean/Latin America flights that have premium demand if there are any, but I think JFK-KEF was the last non-regional route that had a domestically configured plane (domestic first sold as premium economy) before Delta switched to D1 widebodies for all flights to Europe.

    4. Joe Guest

      Half the transcon routes you listed (JFK-SEA, JFK-SAN, and BOS-SEA) used to be D1 routes. They really should reinstate SEA to their D1 transcon network to compliment the Delta One lounge that just opened at SEA as well as add ATL to their D1 transcon network as it’s Delta’s biggest hub.

    5. ImmortalSynn Guest

      "They really should reinstate SEA to their D1 transcon network"

      Even though they've tried it 3 times in the last 7 years, then pulled back each attempt? What's a 4th, I guess.

      Should be noted that Jetblue also tried Seattle-Kennedy twice with Mint, and also pulled it down shortly.

    6. Gray Guest

      I was under the impression that at least one, possibly two, of those attempts were tanked by the pandemic. 2020 killed off one iteration and...I /think/ another one got derailed by DL reshuffling narrowbodies post-pandemic?

    7. dx Guest

      I suspect Delta will probably add/re-add D1 routes once the new business class seats get certified as this will increase the fleet size (although some will likely be earmarked for JFK-SFO to replace the 757 subfleet that has flatbeds for that route). As you note, there are most likely more domestic routes beyond JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, BOS-LAX, and LAX-DCA that have sufficient premium leisure/business demand for at least some frequencies, if not all of them.

    8. yoloswag420 Guest

      I agree. I think this will also be good market data collection to see how premium certain markets can be.

      It's worth noting that SEA-DCA has switched to a 757, and DCA-SEA is using the inbound LAX-DCA aircraft most of the time, so when the LAX-DCA D1 route gets changed to the premium A321neo, we're likely to see this happen.

    9. Jeremy Guest

      BOS-SEA, NYC-SEA, BOS-SAN, and NYC-SAN are not premium routes - you can see it in the DOT consumer fares report. Their fares and yields are actually quite poor and far below average for routes their length. For instance, NYC-SEA actually has a lower avg. fare than NYC-Reno.

      The average fare on BOS-SEA is $252, with DL the biggest carrier on that route at a fare of $257 - this is the lowest fare route over...

      BOS-SEA, NYC-SEA, BOS-SAN, and NYC-SAN are not premium routes - you can see it in the DOT consumer fares report. Their fares and yields are actually quite poor and far below average for routes their length. For instance, NYC-SEA actually has a lower avg. fare than NYC-Reno.

      The average fare on BOS-SEA is $252, with DL the biggest carrier on that route at a fare of $257 - this is the lowest fare route over 2400 miles in any of the top 1000 routes below Sacramento-Orlando, Portland-Tampa, etc. WN gets a slightly higher avg. fare on SMF-MCO than DL on BOS-SEA FYI.

      NYC-SEA's average fare is a bit better, but only $312. Compare that to NYC metro-SFO ($467) and NYC metro - LA Metro ($415).

      Same problem for NYC-SAN ($310), BOS-SAN ($305).

      Now the ATL-West Coast routes could be potential options. DL averages a fare of $490 on ATL-LAX (market avg. is $355), a 1,900 mile route FYI (far higher yield than any of the BOS/NYC-SEA or SAN routes), $422 on ATL-SFO (market avg. is $361 - UA has 20% share at a fare of $315) on a 2,100 mile route, and $366 on ATL-SEA (market avg. is $335 - AS has 30% share at a fare of $292) on a 2,200 mile route.

      Source: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2025-07/Domestic%20Airline%20Fares%20Consumer%20Report%202025_Q1.pdf

    10. Gray Guest

      The one wrinkle for SEA is DL growing its international presence there. I think they /might/ find enough international feed there to justify at least doing a mixed service?

    11. yoloswag420 Guest

      I'm not sure I get your point. None of ATL's markets are competitive markets, so no need to use a better product. Delta's ability to compete on a route matters. BOS-SFO for example is "higher yielding", but BOS-LAX is the D1 route since Delta cannot keep up with Mint or UA's larger SFO hub.

      NYC-SEA seems to be comparable to BOS-LAX, which is a D1 route, and Delta has the strength of its JFK hub...

      I'm not sure I get your point. None of ATL's markets are competitive markets, so no need to use a better product. Delta's ability to compete on a route matters. BOS-SFO for example is "higher yielding", but BOS-LAX is the D1 route since Delta cannot keep up with Mint or UA's larger SFO hub.

      NYC-SEA seems to be comparable to BOS-LAX, which is a D1 route, and Delta has the strength of its JFK hub to back it up as well. SEA to WAS is also equivalent to LAX to WAS, another DC route.

      BOS-SEA does seem very weak however.

    12. yoloswag420 Guest

      I should add it's worth looking at the carrier fares. Going back to the BOS-SFO example, DL is not only the lowest fare carrier at $314, but also UA is getting a fare premium at $374 above the $350 average

      In contrast, DL isn't the largest carrier on BOS-LAX, but it's clear they are getting a fare premium there since B6 and UA are getting $303 vs the average $328, meaning DL is pulling up...

      I should add it's worth looking at the carrier fares. Going back to the BOS-SFO example, DL is not only the lowest fare carrier at $314, but also UA is getting a fare premium at $374 above the $350 average

      In contrast, DL isn't the largest carrier on BOS-LAX, but it's clear they are getting a fare premium there since B6 and UA are getting $303 vs the average $328, meaning DL is pulling up the average signifcantly.

      Similarly, the NYC-SEA example, Alaska is pulling down the average as the lowest fare carrier at $297 vs the average of $312. So Delta is the one getting a noticeable fare premium here. And you can see it from the prices, increasingly DL has been pulling ahead and starting to get fares compare to SFO/LAX to JFK.

    13. Jeremy Guest

      I would be careful making those assessments without the full data. Remember NYC-SEA would include UA at EWR which gets a very strong fare premium itself. Not to mention, AS' cost basis is far lower than DLs, but even if DL averaged ~$327 on NYC-SEA vs AS' $297 to net at the avg. of $312, that still is a poor fare for a transcon (and likely means they net out financially similar to AS). Same...

      I would be careful making those assessments without the full data. Remember NYC-SEA would include UA at EWR which gets a very strong fare premium itself. Not to mention, AS' cost basis is far lower than DLs, but even if DL averaged ~$327 on NYC-SEA vs AS' $297 to net at the avg. of $312, that still is a poor fare for a transcon (and likely means they net out financially similar to AS). Same applies for B6 which has a far lower cost basis.

      BOS-LAX also has AA with the A321T product (alongside Mint) - UA + B6 account for 54% of the market, so optimistically DL would be ~$350, perhaps ~$360-370 if AA is in the ~$320 range.

      Regardless, remember AA has pushed widebodies off MIA-LAX, a route on which they averaged a $424 fare since it was not financially viable as per their own C-suite's comments. Routes like LAX-CHS have average fares for a carrier like AA at ~$350 while being a similar distance, yet no one suggests adding lie-flats to that route.

      What's IMO more likely is the airlines are OK losing $$ / breaking even on BOS-LAX since it's a very competitive route on which most offer lie-flats for market share, but that is less the case elsewhere.

    14. Jeremy Guest

      I would also note that DL getting a fare premium on AS on New York - Seattle is nothing new. In 2019 Q1 the average fare on NYC-SEA was $241 with AS averaging $212 at 39% share, so if anything AS has actually reduced the fare premium of other carriers while growing its share since pre-COVID.

      Source: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2023-03/Domestic_Airline_Fares_Report_2019q1.pdf

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JonNYC Diamond

That's so incredibly stupid

8
Joel Guest

You clearly have never traveled on premium cabins around the world much. Aside from Singapore Airlines (whom I’m not a fan of for a variety of reasons, but that’s for another day), most other short-haul flights operated even by the “premium airlines” you’re likely thinking of are with recliner seats. Those that you akin to premium economy. And have you even seen the nonsense they try to pass off in Europe? Do some actual traveling before you comment about what you think is industry standard or isn’t. As someone who’s now based in Southeast Asia, and travels around Asia & Europe very often, I can say that the US has it pretty good with air travel in comparison with premiun products. Asia has a huge presence LCCs and full-service flights are also incredibly expensive most of the time, be it on economy or business, sometimes costing around $2k for a 1.5 hour flight on a Singapore Airlines business class recliner seat where they don’t even serve champagne. For the most part, flights in the US are fairly reasonable, at least in comparison, for stations that have decent enough traffic. Or are you so unseasoned to not realize that domestic first class is a whole different category entirely and you’re thinking of it as international first class? In any case, your comments are absolutely embarrassing for you, irrelevant to everyone else, and frankly - if you’re an American - an absolute disgrace to our country for being one of those who does nothing but hate on our own country. If you aren’t an American, don’t go around commenting about subjects you’re clearly so uneducated about.

4
--- Guest

Lie-flat is very useful on the transcon red-eye flights. And you're able to do this if you want it - it's premium select.

3
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