A terrible tragedy happened, and unfortunately there are fatalities. While I covered this earlier, I’d like to provide a bit of an update, based on the information that has come out in the hours following the accident.
In this post:
Air Canada Jazz CRJ-900 & fire truck have fatal accident
At around 11:40PM on Sunday, March 22, 2026, an Air Canada Jazz CRJ-900 and a fire truck collided on runway 4 at New York LaGuardia Airport (LGA). The plane belonging to Air Canada’s regional subsidiary was just landing on runway 4 from Montreal Airport (YUL), and was moving around 100 miles per hour at the time of impact.
The CRJ-900 ended up with its nose in the air, and the plane’s cockpit largely destroyed. Meanwhile the fire truck ended up over in the grass and on its side, and was barely identifiable. Air Canada’s CRJ-900s have 76 seats, with a crew of four (including two pilots and two flight attendants). This particular flight had 72 passengers, so it was nearly full.
It has now been revealed that the captain and first officer both passed away, and some of the firefighters are critically injured. It remains to be seen how many serious injuries there are beyond that. My thoughts are with those onboard and their families, and in particular, with those who lost their lives. Following the incident, LaGuardia Airport was closed, given rescue efforts.
How did this LaGuardia Airport accident happen?
To state the obvious, both planes and ground vehicles need permission in order to move around airports, given what congested spaces they are. So what exactly happened here? It would appear that this was an air traffic control error.
Listening to air traffic control audio from the accident, while the Air Canada Jazz CRJ-900 was landing on runway 4, the air traffic controller also gave the fire truck permission to cross the runway.
The fire truck had requested permission from the tower controller to cross the runway — “Truck 1 and company, LaGuardia tower, requesting to cross 4 at delta.” The air traffic controller granted that permission — “Truck 1 and company, cross 4 at delta.”
After a short while, the controller realized the error — “stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, Truck 1, stop, stop, Truck 1, stop.” Unfortunately at that point it was too late, though, and the plane and the fire truck had collided.
Ugh, for all the close calls we see, here’s one that didn’t end well. Reports suggests that the controller was working alone. Admittedly LaGuardia isn’t that busy overnight, but air traffic controllers certainly have stressful jobs, and even a small mistake can have major consequences, as we’re seeing here.
For added context, the controller was trying to assist with another emergency at the same time. United flight UA2384 was scheduled to fly to Chicago (ORD), and had two rejected takeoffs. The pilots of that flight declared an emergency, and requested fire trucks, so the air traffic controller seemed to be largely focused on that. In a comment to another pilot after the accident, the controller said “we were dealing with an emergency earlier, and I messed up.”
Bottom line
An Air Canada Jazz CRJ-900 and a fire truck collided on a LaGuardia runway, after an air traffic controller accidentally cleared the fire truck onto the runway while the other plane was landing. He was busy dealing with another emergency. The scenes from the accident look awful, and it has been confirmed that the two pilots lost their lives, and firefighters are critically injured.
My thoughts are with those involved and their families, and I’m hoping for as few serious injuries and fatalities as possible. I also feel bad for the controller making an honest mistake — I can’t imagine how he’s feeling right now. Air traffic controllers have really gotten the short end of the stick in recent years, in terms of an immense workload due to short staffing. Of course at some point that’s going to impact performance. Never mind that he was dealing with another emergency.
What do you make of this LaGuardia accident?
Your lack of empathy is REALLY BAD.
Your primary concern seems to extend to the ATC. Cursory mention of the TWO CANADIAN PILOTS KILLED through no fault of their own. Negligent homicide would be a generous charge.
And to think you got married in Canada. Please never darken our shores again.
Air Traffic Controllers have qualified immunity, much like police officers. Short of gross negligence (which there appears to be no indicator of), there will be no "charge" brought against the controller.
Fyi it is not entirely the ATC's fault. There are checks in place in the potential event of ATC error that were also ignored. Here is a tip.
https://youtu.be/zLKLd7kGSVA?si=RFOWb4Y1bLyrHa1H
If (and that's a big if) the UAL crew was embellishing their odor issue because they wanted to go off duty they bear some responsibility. RIP to the victims and I hope that some positive changes happen because of the incident.
Why would the CEO of Air Canada be the one to give a statement at a press conference? It’s not their aircraft and they have no ownership in Chorus Aviation. Where is the CEO of Jazz Aviation?
I asked a retired ATC what "Truck 1 and company" means, and he said it's not standard language. Does "and company" mean there were five other trucks and this was just the only one that didn't make it?
Yes, it is standard. It is telling the traffic controller there is more than one unit so they need a wider gap. It's a term used on Alerts when ARFF units are responding.
Just this century there have been 6 or 7 incidents at La Guardia. Not a very good record at all. Awful and concerning bloody airport.
People assuming that this ATC controller was overworked. Let's see the drug tests, his medical record etc. Many factors right down to a simple mistake. If it was his mistake he needs to go on National TV and tell America his shame and ask forgiveness but we can't do that now can we
I've read a lot of stupid remarks on this site in the comments over the years, but this is the stupidest
Maybe not the stupidest, but close.
I can't even imagine how the ATC felt after making this mistake. One thing I'm 99.9% sure of is that he didn't cause the crash intentionally. Which means he's feeling awful now.
As a controller you need to be perfect 100% of the time.He might be feeling awful but some families are grieving. How he felt after the incident is not the issue.
My take on this, with limited info, is that the incident just prior should have been handled by others. I do not know if there was no one else on duty or why.
If the ATC was anything other than a white straight male . . .
what is your problem dude ? seriously ?
Does anyone know the last time they had an accident that resulted in a fatality? Air Canada's safety record has been better than most carriers; I can't recall the last time they had a fatality.
LGA or Air Canada Jazz?
LGA, ironically, March 22 (same day), 1992, USAir Flight 405.
Air Canada. Just like JAL, coincidentally both accidents were collisions and JAL hasn't had a fatality since JAL 123.
Apparently, the last fatal crash was in 1970.
I found Captain Steeeve's video on the incident helpful:
https://youtu.be/Hx-GFeErXD8?si=mgFQ9qalwMBwjpo7
Sounds like America needs a Heathrow-style APD to pay for all the systems and staffing upgrades required. Who’s with me?
Not sure we need a new tax, necessarily. A good start might be: 1) more staffing at our major airports (multiple controllers might have saved lives here), 2) emergency vehicles crossing runways be on same radio frequency as Tower and Pilot.
As with the DC midair, if ATC is only one speaking to both intersecting parties, if the controller misses or confuses something, the two that collide don't even know basically until it's too...
Not sure we need a new tax, necessarily. A good start might be: 1) more staffing at our major airports (multiple controllers might have saved lives here), 2) emergency vehicles crossing runways be on same radio frequency as Tower and Pilot.
As with the DC midair, if ATC is only one speaking to both intersecting parties, if the controller misses or confuses something, the two that collide don't even know basically until it's too late. If the pilots in either incident heard the helicopter or fire truck request to cross, may have helped avoid calamity.
Would a CRJ-900 still be going 100mph, about 3000 feet down the runway? Another report said 24mph.
Landing on Rwy 4, most aircraft turn off at taxiway R, to avoid crossing Rwy 13-31. Back in the day, on a clear day with a dry runway my coworkers and I would challenge each other to try to turn off by D or E, both high-speed turnoffs which allow for faster exit speeds, but this would take a bit of planning and skill.
On a night like last night, coming off a full...
Landing on Rwy 4, most aircraft turn off at taxiway R, to avoid crossing Rwy 13-31. Back in the day, on a clear day with a dry runway my coworkers and I would challenge each other to try to turn off by D or E, both high-speed turnoffs which allow for faster exit speeds, but this would take a bit of planning and skill.
On a night like last night, coming off a full ILS approach in winds and rain, nobody should be trying for anything but a normal landing and rollout. With the appropriate brake setting and spoiler deployment a turnoff on R is still possible, but I recall the “80 knots” decelerating callout would be made about where they impacted the truck. IMO, there’s no way they were going slower than 60knots.
NYT reports "The Air Canada Express plane’s ground speed was around 132 knots (151 miles per hour) when it landed, according to data from FlightRadar24, an online flight-tracking service. But it slowed sharply after landing, as is normal, and the plane’s speed was 21 knots (24 m.p.h.) less than a minute later." But I'm not sure that's a good source. Meanwhile, it also reports that a passenger "who was sitting in seat 19A, said the...
NYT reports "The Air Canada Express plane’s ground speed was around 132 knots (151 miles per hour) when it landed, according to data from FlightRadar24, an online flight-tracking service. But it slowed sharply after landing, as is normal, and the plane’s speed was 21 knots (24 m.p.h.) less than a minute later." But I'm not sure that's a good source. Meanwhile, it also reports that a passenger "who was sitting in seat 19A, said the journey from Montreal had been smooth until the descent, when a flight attendant announced that passengers shouldn’t take any luggage with them if the plane made an emergency landing. Then came a rough landing."
I have a close relative flying into the eastern U.S. seaboard this week and I frankly am petrified.
They should be fine. Thousands of other flights happen every day without issue. LGA just reopened around 2PM today. It could be a few days of delays in the NYC area specifically as they recover.
A minimum staffing level of 1 in the LaGuardia control tower, even at night, is absurd.
Do fire truck drivers look left and right down the runway before crossing ?
Again, the people that make this political. You all are low IQ and low morals. The big issue seems to be this was happening late when staffing levels are down because typically at 11:45PM there's only a handful of late arrivals. Since we don't know the protocols for keeping additional staffing on in the case of flights departing late maybe some people just should write anything.
Agreed, George. In this case, it appears to simply be a tragic accident. RIP.
A preventable tragic accident caused by human error. RIP.
Eskimo, I'd also blame the bad weather. Visibility was bad (dense mist). Pilots and fire truck probably didn't see each other until mere seconds before impact. Had they been on the same radio frequency, maybe that would've helped, but we won't know. Hope lessons are learned.
Whether directly or indirectly, George, it kinda is political.
Now I'm not blaming a particular party, I believe both are at fault.
The FAA have been underfunded and understaffed for a long time now (all while both parties have been in office)
There's supposed to be at least 2 individuals in a tower at any given time, there are a lot of different systems and softwares already certified and in service meant to...
Whether directly or indirectly, George, it kinda is political.
Now I'm not blaming a particular party, I believe both are at fault.
The FAA have been underfunded and understaffed for a long time now (all while both parties have been in office)
There's supposed to be at least 2 individuals in a tower at any given time, there are a lot of different systems and softwares already certified and in service meant to prevent similar occurrence. I don't know to what extent LaGuardia is equipped with any of this.
Exactly, Zephyr. I mean, is there anyone would would say "no" to a $5 additional ticket tax to pay for more air traffic controllers in order to prevent accidents like this? Why is this so difficult for the government to get right?
US passengers and cargo carriers pay more than enough in taxes.
the problem is that all air travel related expenditures are controlled in the federal budget which needs to end.
Taxes that are collected for a specific purpose need to be immediately released for that purpose. If the taxes that support TSA or TSA services are not sufficient, then change their budget separate from the military and other functions of government.
and the problem w/...
US passengers and cargo carriers pay more than enough in taxes.
the problem is that all air travel related expenditures are controlled in the federal budget which needs to end.
Taxes that are collected for a specific purpose need to be immediately released for that purpose. If the taxes that support TSA or TSA services are not sufficient, then change their budget separate from the military and other functions of government.
and the problem w/ spending to rework ATC equipment is that it will require multiple years of investment and Congress might get one bill through one year but then kill it a few years later. That is why the US ATC equipment is as old as it is.
Gary over at VFTW argues that ATC should be separated from the federal government and potentially privatized. Whether I go that far or not, they need to be removed from the general budget process
Is America great again, trumptards? Can’t find proper air traffic control but you keep funding Israel and the Epstein class
And you keep licking terrorist taint. Death to snackbars.
You're pathetic.
Two people are dead, and you want to make it political.
Life is political, especially with orange Hitler leading America. Keep licking the boots of Epstein.
"Orange Hitler" is the democratically elected President of the United States. You may not like it, but that's reality. I thought Obama and Biden were horrible presidents, but I didn't call them ridiculous names and accuse them of being Nazis.
Libs want to politize everything, including a tragedy where two people lost their lives. Like I said, pathetic.
Trump took over a USA filled with incompetence, waste and in serious jobs, not enough trained personnel. it cant all be corrected instantaneuosly.
The Democrats officially now have blood on their hands.
Guess that ties my side with ICE, Republitard.
Jim, can you expand on why this particular incident is directly related to the Democratic Party? Thanks!
Damage to front of airplane and fire truck appears to have been a higher speed collision , which would have prevented the pilots from veering onto the grass .
Is the NTSB is hiring? You could apply!
Yea; it's now being reported that the plane was going 93-105mph at the time of collision.
Refrain from attacking commentators as guests. Frankly, I noticed a majority of comments from posters with imaginary statuses bring little or no value to the discussion. Ben should delete derogatory comments that come with name-calling, personal attacks and vile language. Comments must be focused on the message and topic, not the messenger.
Globetrotter, one could find it very easy to agree with the vast majority of that which you post. However, you may or may not be aware of the background of some who post herein.
Some are the defenders of the website management. For instance they post in defence of anything which might refer to or impact upon Ben. They echo Ben’s comments, ideals and sentiments, furthermore, they have answered for him on many, many occasions.
...Globetrotter, one could find it very easy to agree with the vast majority of that which you post. However, you may or may not be aware of the background of some who post herein.
Some are the defenders of the website management. For instance they post in defence of anything which might refer to or impact upon Ben. They echo Ben’s comments, ideals and sentiments, furthermore, they have answered for him on many, many occasions.
It is abundantly clear that few who post herein have little more than a passenger’s knowledge of aviation. There is nothing wrong with that situation as we all have much to learn. Then there are the Walter Mitty’s, they clearly know nothing but pretend to possess a depth of commercial aviation knowledge.
Some find it extremely easy to be rude, crude and revolting to others who post gobbledygook. Some have tolerated the pure ignorance of others for so long now, that those ignorant individuals have now become tiresome and some might say deserving of all incoming.
The bottom line is that as far as Ben, is concerned, post mean points, points mean flights and flights, etc, means a living for him. As you are now aware it is very easy to be drawn into the website politics.
Too many aircraft , too much confusion , too many airlines , too many chances for mistakes .
Not enough time to correct mistakes by controllers , pilots , fire trucks , caterers , and passengers . Too much activity , in too brief a time .
Airports need to establish "tent and cot" waiting areas to wait out the mistakes by an over-used frantic industry , constantly trying to maximize profits at government expense . Airlines ought to bear the cost of air traffic control and security checks .
Everyone involved needs to slow down .
Ben really needs to turn off the comments on stories like this.
You people are sick.
Some forums either increase moderation or restrict comments to accounts that meet a certain threshold for sensitive topics. At the very least, Ben needs to restrict "Guest" comments. But he won't because he only cares about quantity; he can't monetize quality to advertisers.
No, Miguel_R. Restricting commentary on your basis is irrelevant because some of the alleged ‘vile’ comments come from registered members. The choice here is engage or ignore. The answer to speech you don’t like is more speech in this context. Selective censorship isn’t gonna fix anything or bring back these pilots.
1990Bot, answers for the website management once again …. one is so amused …. :-)
At. Your. Service. Aero-baiter.
Agree; several generally are sick. I weened myself off the four worst and as a result can run through the rest of the comments in a couple of minutes. Blogger ought to be ashamed of himself for running this kind of commentary nonsense.
What a horrible tragedy- my thoughts and prayers to all those involved.
Let me guess, Evil orange man is gonna use ICE to fill ATC shortages….
It is hard to imagine that a single controller was working when there were still dozens of flights due to land because of earlier ATC delays due to weather.
A subplot of this is that UA 2384 had rejected two takeoffs and emergency vehicles were where they were because they had responded to a request for help from the UA flight which ended up cancelling.
another subplot is how "live" aviation is and...
It is hard to imagine that a single controller was working when there were still dozens of flights due to land because of earlier ATC delays due to weather.
A subplot of this is that UA 2384 had rejected two takeoffs and emergency vehicles were where they were because they had responded to a request for help from the UA flight which ended up cancelling.
another subplot is how "live" aviation is and how the controller's words will haunt him and be replayed for years to come.
Very sad day and yet another indication that aviation is not healthy in the US
Oof, I just knew you'd find some way to blame United here... *facepalm*
1990Bot, has it not occurred to you that it is you who has a firm “Facepalm” up your own anterior orifice?
no, there is no blame of anyone.
It is noteworthy that emergency vehicles had to meet a flight for fume issues at the aircraft away from the terminal. It is not common for ATC to be requested to meet an aircraft that can operate under its own power away from the terminals.
Ignore the fact that it was United if it makes you happy. It is the circumstances that matter.
and it also...
no, there is no blame of anyone.
It is noteworthy that emergency vehicles had to meet a flight for fume issues at the aircraft away from the terminal. It is not common for ATC to be requested to meet an aircraft that can operate under its own power away from the terminals.
Ignore the fact that it was United if it makes you happy. It is the circumstances that matter.
and it also highlights how multiple events can happen at the same time to exponentially increase risk.
correction
....It is not common for emergency vehicles....
Tim's going to tell us how this never would've happened on a Delta flight.
Oh, and let's hear about how epic Delta's IFE has become, and how they beat quarterly earnings projections eight times in a row! Weirdo.
I mean, Delta is uniquely affected by closure of LGA, since it operates more flights from there; but, don’t fret, Tim, Newark has a ground stop this morning, too, due to a fire in the tower, so yippie for Delta… /s
aviation is stretched to and beyond limits. No one is immune
Tim, you may be onto something, because but-for United's failure to maintain its aircraft, there wouldn't have been the fire truck out there... hmm...
We don't know the reason for the fumes in the first place but MAXs typically have not been having fume issues.
Recordings between the UA pilots and ATC are interesting. The UA crew pretty quickly escalated their concerns about fumes in the rear of the aircraft and said they needed to return to any gate. None were available and ATC pretty quickly asked the fire department to bring air stairs which had not been confirmed...
We don't know the reason for the fumes in the first place but MAXs typically have not been having fume issues.
Recordings between the UA pilots and ATC are interesting. The UA crew pretty quickly escalated their concerns about fumes in the rear of the aircraft and said they needed to return to any gate. None were available and ATC pretty quickly asked the fire department to bring air stairs which had not been confirmed to be happening at the time of the accident. UA was given permission to cross the runway to get back to the terminal.
Whether it was all "justified" or not but it was a HUGE distraction that required fire trucks to cross a runway without resequencing of landing traffic.
It was simply too much for one controller to handle whether that is the norm for LGA or any other airport that normally works an airport that busy with just one controller.
Like the DCA accident, it didn't need to happy. Safety was eroded.
and, yes, something that was potentially severe took too much bandwidth compared to something that turned deadly
Too many flights , too many passengers , overworked people .
Not enough elapsed time to correct mistakes by controllers , pilots , fire trucks . and pax .
Solution is a "tent and cot" city at airports "time-outs" for all the things which can go wrong .
More deaths on the hands of the democrats all because they want to continue importing more migrants from 3rd world shitholes. Now ICE is going to have to start handling ATC responsibilities as well.
This brave Americans already have enough on their plates and are now having to divert their attention from their man purpose of preventing this country from looking like Guatemala and taking care of lesbian poets to having to clean...
More deaths on the hands of the democrats all because they want to continue importing more migrants from 3rd world shitholes. Now ICE is going to have to start handling ATC responsibilities as well.
This brave Americans already have enough on their plates and are now having to divert their attention from their man purpose of preventing this country from looking like Guatemala and taking care of lesbian poets to having to clean up the the crybabies mess. Absurd what America has become, so glad we left.
Blaming ‘perceived opponents’ during a tragic accident like this is a sad, weak trope; worse was when Trump tried to blame ‘DEI’ for the middair in DC. Glad he hasn’t stooped to that level on this yet. Vile.
U really need help.
ATC is part of DoT, which is fully funded.
ATC is part of DoT, which is fully funded. I guess this mistake is going to be made many, many times today.
TrumpGambit - you are a worthless piece of sh!t, piss off wanker
You know literally nothing about the circumstances of this crash and you’re blaming Democrats and immigrants? Dude, just stop. It’s really unedifying. A tragedy has occurred.
For once we agree. I'm glad you left too. May your new country treat immigrants with less demonization than you do.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Migrants and you thinking it does highlights the main issue in our world today. You just believe you're right and evilize everything without any second thought and lack education. Not everything is the other person's fault. Shame on you
I wish more ignorant, intolerant, truth denying jerks like you would leave.
People keep blaming human error to under staffing and over working. When humans are not supposed to be doing this work anymore.
Yet rather than removing humans from making an error as humans genetically are prone to be.
You blame these needless deaths on politics.
That's how politicians distract and brainwash you.
Real or fake Eskimo? You ready for universal basic income, or are we just gonna do the Elysium dystopian sci-fi, where the wealthy live in a space station and the filthy masses return to the stone age below? Because the ‘just let AI do everything’ pitch doesn’t seem ‘great’ for different reasons…
Probably fake, given he sounds unusually less douchy in this particular comment.
Regardless, it's been evident time and time again that Eskimo's MO here has been to take a dump on the men/women working day in and day out to keep people like him safe in the sky.... his MO is NOT the safety of the flying public.
Doesn't help that when pushed, he cannot identify a real world AI system capable of taking over....
Probably fake, given he sounds unusually less douchy in this particular comment.
Regardless, it's been evident time and time again that Eskimo's MO here has been to take a dump on the men/women working day in and day out to keep people like him safe in the sky.... his MO is NOT the safety of the flying public.
Doesn't help that when pushed, he cannot identify a real world AI system capable of taking over. (Something about Flight Simulator LOL)
He most certainly talks and thinks about ATC like someone who has never worked ATC would.
Because JoePro the obsolete ATC, believes he and most humans can do a better repetition jobs better than computers.
Your colleague's error just cost lives. And you're still going to keep letting it happen.
Human error that result in deaths are just waiting to happen.
My MO is always the safety of the public first, because like it or not. I'm the one who is flying. Not someone behind a pile of paper strips and...
Because JoePro the obsolete ATC, believes he and most humans can do a better repetition jobs better than computers.
Your colleague's error just cost lives. And you're still going to keep letting it happen.
Human error that result in deaths are just waiting to happen.
My MO is always the safety of the public first, because like it or not. I'm the one who is flying. Not someone behind a pile of paper strips and getting stepped on the radio. Your life at risk on the plane not in the tower.
JoePro and others are just too dumb in their tunnel silo to realize he is the problem not the solution of public safety. And it's not you, it's the obsolete system that you had false faith in.
Like I said: calls people dumb and obsolete, shits on their job, claims he's here in the interest of public safety, fails to say anything more insightful than 'cOmpUTerS cOmpUTe bETter tHAn pEopLe', fails to provide the company/system that is at the ready to replace ATC.
Also weird to act like controllers don't have a more personal stake in aviation safety themselves... as though they and their families don't fly too.
All demonstratable evidence that...
Like I said: calls people dumb and obsolete, shits on their job, claims he's here in the interest of public safety, fails to say anything more insightful than 'cOmpUTerS cOmpUTe bETter tHAn pEopLe', fails to provide the company/system that is at the ready to replace ATC.
Also weird to act like controllers don't have a more personal stake in aviation safety themselves... as though they and their families don't fly too.
All demonstratable evidence that Eskimo is a troll.
But there is a glimmer of truth about my intellect, because I'm still here feeding this mouth breathing POS.
My god, this dinosaur is so dumb you make dinosaurs look bad.
Give Palantir a trillion dollar contract and they'll make out of job (that you sacked to begin with) before end of the year.
No company would build a prototype as long as dinosaurs like you still have the backing of the government.
Doesn't mean technology isn't there.
Elon didn't invent cars or batteries or EVs.
Those technologies exists long before Tesla....
My god, this dinosaur is so dumb you make dinosaurs look bad.
Give Palantir a trillion dollar contract and they'll make out of job (that you sacked to begin with) before end of the year.
No company would build a prototype as long as dinosaurs like you still have the backing of the government.
Doesn't mean technology isn't there.
Elon didn't invent cars or batteries or EVs.
Those technologies exists long before Tesla. He just got the timing right to put together the technology and make perfection improvements.
It's because dumb people like obsolete JoePro that couldn't see outside the silo is responsible for so many lives. Keep letting your colleagues error costing lives. Your salary (that greedy you even demanded more) is earned from future dead people. Shame on you.
This is a tough one. Based in NYC and have taken that route (YUL-LGA on AC’s CRJ). Runway 4, from the south, often hard landing, fast exit to taxiway 4-22. ATC allegedly already admitting error. We had rain last night, which likely didn’t help. Feel for the pilots and their families; hope for speedy recovery for injured passengers and crew. LGA gonna be closed at least first half Monday. This plus TSA madness isn’t a great start to the week. Take care, everyone.
you've posted the same comment multiple times but runways in the US - and much of the world - are numbered based on compass heading to the nearest 10 degrees - while taxiways are lettered.
Landing or departing on runway 4 at LGA, the parallel taxiway to the right is B while the one to the left is AA.
to the second part of your comment, if this wreckage can be removed in a little over 12 hours and the airport reopened, it will be a miracle.
Thanks for the clarification, Tim. I'm sure NTSB will be even more specific that you or I.
I agree; it would be a small miracle if LGA is up-and-running later today. *fingers crossed*
Not to get too into the weeds, Tim: The reports are that it was the intersection D, as far as which taxiway (west-east) that the truck was intersecting runway 4-22. (Agreed, again, that Jazz approach from south was onto 4, from north would be 22, but, '4-22' is the north-south runway, as opposed to the perpendicular runway, 13-31 (west-east).
It seems the most dangerous part of flying might not be when you are actually flying but on the ground. Important reminder to always keep seat belts on while on taxiways.
You're absolutely right. The deadliest accident in history was at Tenerife when two Boeing 747s collided. It was on the ground.
Airport grounds are surprisingly dangerous. They're usually more crowded than the air, and planes on runways can be at high speed. Those warnings to stay seated with seatbelts on is not overblown.
US airports, especially in NYC are dangerously understaffed.
Staffing is hard, and so is upgrading the outdated ATC system.
I think the authorities should force the airlines to reduce the number of flights and replace those regional jets with bigger planes like 737/A320..
European and Asian ICAO landing clearance procedures - not being issued until the proceeding aircraft has vacates runway and the runway is clear - would've prevented this. At a minimum there would've been the audible reminder for all on the tower frequency with the cleared to land and read back being given by the Jazz immediately before touchdown.
Whether that's practical in America I'm unsure, but instead of rushing to blame the controller, Trump, funding...
European and Asian ICAO landing clearance procedures - not being issued until the proceeding aircraft has vacates runway and the runway is clear - would've prevented this. At a minimum there would've been the audible reminder for all on the tower frequency with the cleared to land and read back being given by the Jazz immediately before touchdown.
Whether that's practical in America I'm unsure, but instead of rushing to blame the controller, Trump, funding or other things I see in the comments, I think this is worth being part of the conversation and is probably a lot less controversial.
I have long maintained that if the USA had to undergo its own IASA audit that it imposes on foreign countries, it would be downgraded to category 2 for non-compliance with ICAO standard.
You get it. US is a dumpster fire with no hope. Thanks to the democrats and especially the republicans. They both work for the same people (and it’s not the public).
@Jerry... indeed.
For all my loathing of Trump, he shares something most frustratingly in common with the Dems... the yearly implementation of an alternative pay plan for feds. ATCs could see raises in excess of 25% if ANY President would simple not take action and allow the automatic implementation of FEPCA: a law passed in the early 90s to keep federal pay in line with the private sector.
Instead they deliberately go out of...
@Jerry... indeed.
For all my loathing of Trump, he shares something most frustratingly in common with the Dems... the yearly implementation of an alternative pay plan for feds. ATCs could see raises in excess of 25% if ANY President would simple not take action and allow the automatic implementation of FEPCA: a law passed in the early 90s to keep federal pay in line with the private sector.
Instead they deliberately go out of their way to stop this law from taking effect... every year.
@Sean M.
Bingo.
The simple answer is no, it's not practical.
Everybody here always wants EU rules and everybody here always wants to ignore that we don't have EU traffic levels.
You want to implement procedures used in much slower countries, expect much slower movement of aircraft. But TBH maybe that's not the worst thing anymore? Since nobody here or anywhere else gives a crap about ATC Pay/Staffing/Workload.
They keep *telling* us we're replacable, but they never *show*...
The simple answer is no, it's not practical.
Everybody here always wants EU rules and everybody here always wants to ignore that we don't have EU traffic levels.
You want to implement procedures used in much slower countries, expect much slower movement of aircraft. But TBH maybe that's not the worst thing anymore? Since nobody here or anywhere else gives a crap about ATC Pay/Staffing/Workload.
They keep *telling* us we're replacable, but they never *show* us we're replacable.
Ehh no dude, LHR does this, you're often not cleared to land until maybe 500 ft or less. It's easily feasible to do in the USA. LHR is the busiest 2 rwy airport in the world FYI.
@mike: like I said, I was offering the "simple" answer.... but I'd put into question how relevant the busyness of LHR is here... are their staffing woes similar, do they have a limited number of bodies handling those runways? I.E: the LGA controller was dealing with GC/LC combined during a particularly busy evening. Is that common in Europe? Seems to me that waiting until the last minute for landing clearances on top of dealing with...
@mike: like I said, I was offering the "simple" answer.... but I'd put into question how relevant the busyness of LHR is here... are their staffing woes similar, do they have a limited number of bodies handling those runways? I.E: the LGA controller was dealing with GC/LC combined during a particularly busy evening. Is that common in Europe? Seems to me that waiting until the last minute for landing clearances on top of dealing with other air traffic and ground traffic would lead to a hefty increase in go-arounds. (At the least, you're adding transmissions into the equation.... pilot check-in/controller response SEPERATE from landing clearance/pilot response)
Everyone saw it coming. These deaths were likely preventable, and the ATC controller is just another victim because of incompetent governance.
I work in Operations at an Airport; we always say look both ways before crossing a runway even when tower clears you. They’re human and can make errors too. Just like crossing a street, always look both ways. No guarantee they would have seen the aircraft, but it may have helped.
That said, both the vehicle and aircraft’s occupants lives are in the hands of the controller. It’s unfortunate that the current administration which refuses...
I work in Operations at an Airport; we always say look both ways before crossing a runway even when tower clears you. They’re human and can make errors too. Just like crossing a street, always look both ways. No guarantee they would have seen the aircraft, but it may have helped.
That said, both the vehicle and aircraft’s occupants lives are in the hands of the controller. It’s unfortunate that the current administration which refuses to spend on anything but meaningless wars won’t fund more ATC controllers. Let’s see what moronic statement our Buffoon and Chief makes tomorrow.
Same here. Even when Tower clears me onto a runway, I look both ways and crack my windows open because, as I always tell people who I’m training to drive on the airfield, you’ll usually hear a plane before you can see it, especially at night and ESPECIALLY in the rain at night. It’s amazing how aircraft can disappear behind your A-pillar and surprise you.
Also, I’m always looking at my radar in the...
Same here. Even when Tower clears me onto a runway, I look both ways and crack my windows open because, as I always tell people who I’m training to drive on the airfield, you’ll usually hear a plane before you can see it, especially at night and ESPECIALLY in the rain at night. It’s amazing how aircraft can disappear behind your A-pillar and surprise you.
Also, I’m always looking at my radar in the vehicle and won’t even call Tower to request to cross/drive a runway if I see a plane on short final. If I really have to, I’ll wait until the aircraft is just passing me and rolling out before I call to request to cross. Makes it less stress on the Tower and also I don’t want to put the pilots on edge if they hear me calling to cross the runway they’re just about to touchdown on.
This sad event is yet another reminder of why one is best advised to avoid travel to the U.S. …. and then there are some who post herein, who accuse the likes of India, of being a third world aviation country.
Eskimo could well be correct when advocating the removal of humans from the U.S. aviation control loop …. and the sooner the better!
This has nothing to do with the US or our politics; believe me, if it did, I’d pounce on that. The truth is that aviation accidents can and do happen anywhere. Take care out there.
Do wake up to the reality of the current U.S. aviation industry woes, 1990Bot. Your travel agents mindset is insufficient protection against the current circumstances.
If you are unable to admit that this latest aviation faux pas “Has nothing to do with the U.S. or politics” then you are presenting yourself to be the proverbial ostrich with your head firmly stuck in the sand. Someone please give me the will to tolerate this blind foolishness.
Almost forgot the 'Guest' vs. 'Diamond' Aero, but I'll assume it's you, for real, this time.
You know that I'm no fan of the current administration; however, they did not directly cause this accident; maybe, indirectly, our government, both parties, all sides, should be investing in additional staffing, new equipment, etc. But, even then, accidents can still happen. So, feel free to blame me, the President, whichever party, the ATC, the pilot, the truck,...
Almost forgot the 'Guest' vs. 'Diamond' Aero, but I'll assume it's you, for real, this time.
You know that I'm no fan of the current administration; however, they did not directly cause this accident; maybe, indirectly, our government, both parties, all sides, should be investing in additional staffing, new equipment, etc. But, even then, accidents can still happen. So, feel free to blame me, the President, whichever party, the ATC, the pilot, the truck, whoever and whatever, if it makes you feel better. None of us want these tragedies.
1990Bot, please be assured that I do not blame you for this tragedy. However, I do find your take on this to be extremely naive at best and very irresponsible at worst.
My 'take' that it's an unfortunate tragic accident? Yeah, how naive. It was obviously the illuminati that wanted this... /s
Leave it to AeroB1Aa to defend his home country of India when it is completely irrelevant to the post.
Since when has this Caucasian Englishman ever claimed that India was his “Home country” …. Don’t you know Re-dreamer that assumption is the mother of all cock-ups? Perhaps you are the ATC operative who assumed that it was safe for the fire engine to cross the runway, yes? Numpty!
You write in the way that Indians think English is spoken. Its very apparent. Lol no one has ever identified themself as a "Caucasian Englishman". You rushing to the defense of India at every chance you get tells us all that we need to know. LARPer!
Re-dreamer, has it never occurred to you that on many occasions one enjoys extracting the urine from those who berate the likes of AI, etc? India is a fascinating country with a tremendously diverse population, culture and of course history. Ignorance of such places is commonplace amongst certain in-bread colonialists, are you such a creature?
As for your Caucasian jibe, to satisfy your curiosity, please be advised that I am proud to be categorised as...
Re-dreamer, has it never occurred to you that on many occasions one enjoys extracting the urine from those who berate the likes of AI, etc? India is a fascinating country with a tremendously diverse population, culture and of course history. Ignorance of such places is commonplace amongst certain in-bread colonialists, are you such a creature?
As for your Caucasian jibe, to satisfy your curiosity, please be advised that I am proud to be categorised as both English and Caucasian. You so obviously know all about roll play, some of us have little time to indulge in such practices. However, if cross dressing also part of your active imagination then who are we to judge?
Actually Re-dreamer, you are presenting yourself very much in the vain of that Plain Jane character. Have you changed your login details in an attempt to fly under our radar?
The only thing youre extracting urine out of is those poor cows so you can drink it.
"Roll play" "in-bread colonialists", yeah, thanks for confirming. Youre no Englishman, and certianly no RAF pilot youve LARPed as previously. Youre just part of the swaths of (now exposed) accounts that lie about who they are, but all come from one region. (See X's new location feature.)
Re-dreamer, has it never occurred to you that on many occasions one enjoys extracting the urine from those who berate the likes of AI, etc? India is a fascinating country with a tremendously diverse population, culture and of course history. Ignorance of such places is commonplace amongst certain in-bread colonialists, are you such a creature?
As for your Caucasian jibe, to satisfy your curiosity, please be advised that I am proud to be categorised as...
Re-dreamer, has it never occurred to you that on many occasions one enjoys extracting the urine from those who berate the likes of AI, etc? India is a fascinating country with a tremendously diverse population, culture and of course history. Ignorance of such places is commonplace amongst certain in-bread colonialists, are you such a creature?
As for your Caucasian jibe, to satisfy your curiosity, please be advised that I am proud to be categorised as both English and Caucasian. You so obviously know all about roll play, some of us have little time to indulge in such practices. However, if cross dressing also part of your active imagination then who are we to judge?
Actually Re-dreamer, you are presenting yourself very much in the vain of that Plain Jane character. Have you changed your login details in an attempt to fly under our radar?
There is no need to "advocate" for the removal of humans lest you have a disdain for them (as Eskimo has demonstrated). When/if the technology becomes feasable to replace ATC (which is AT LEAST 5-10 years+ away), it will happen on its own (after all, when there's profit to be had....) It also won't be an overnight process, as even something as basic as electronic flight strips took a year to get done.
People tend...
There is no need to "advocate" for the removal of humans lest you have a disdain for them (as Eskimo has demonstrated). When/if the technology becomes feasable to replace ATC (which is AT LEAST 5-10 years+ away), it will happen on its own (after all, when there's profit to be had....) It also won't be an overnight process, as even something as basic as electronic flight strips took a year to get done.
People tend to think ATC is far more procedure based than dynamic, but once you get introduced to the job, you learn it's not so much.
Anyways, there are hundreds of other careers types ahead in line of ATC that will be replaced before it gets to us. Years ago Oxford put out a study ranking ~700 career fields and their probabilities of automation.... ATC was in the top 200 (higher being less probability of automation), and ahead of Pilots.
Until such a technology exists, the best way to improve safety is to advocate to better staffing/conditions for controllers. Albeit if you're not US based, maybe not so relevant.
Latest news is that both pilots are deceased. That's very unfortunate.
FAFO.
This is what happens when Democrats refuse to fund President DJT's government properly. Criminals all of them!
Wrong Jake. This is what happens when we elect an administration lacking the experience to improve anything
The republicans have control over BOTH the house and the senate. Why do they need the democrats? lol
Because the filibuster in the Senate means any bill of note needs 60 votes to pass, not 51.
The more you know
This is what happens when you have a country run by greed and corruption for decades irrespective of which political party is in power.
ATC is part of DoT, which is fully funded.
Please tell me you all forgot the “/s”… this has nothing to do with politics. It was an accident (and a tragedy). Similar to Trump blaming DEI after the middair in DC last January, suggesting this accident at LGA is because of a political party or whatever is wrong and insensitive. Bad karma, friends.
1990Bot, “Please tell me” that you really are the ostrichBot with your head stuck in the sand and not your posterior? As you continue to post BS, it is unclear if your server has malfunctioned, or, if your programmer is suffering from mental perturbations.
No but this unnecessary political comment is a reflection of what happens in a society whose leaders regularly cross the bounds of moral and civil discourse. What you permit you promote.
Jake - show us you're an ignorant MAGA mouth breather without telling us you're an ignorant MAGA mouth breather
This rhetorical comeback should be relegated to the internet dustbin. It's tired and worse, just dumb.
As far as I know the FAA is fully funder you ignorant dolt.
Recent aviation news has had more close calls with the ATC saving the day.The job stress is a very real thing. I feel for those involved and their families that with this incident positive changes can happen. Prayers.
Local media here in NYC reporting both pilots are sadly deceased. Terrible tragedy.
This should be deemed an attack on American soil by Canada, I think we've been patient enough with them but an attack crosses a red line where it means we have the rights to occupy them.
The gain from that is that Americans will get universal healthcare that Canadians have selfishly kept to themselves and away from American hands for so long.
Put the pipe down bro
You're out of your damn mind. Read a book and travel outside of the US for once in your life. Oh, and go to school too
LOL!!!!!
Air Canada is at fault. They are so anti-American that they confused the air traffic controller. I hope no Americans were among the dead.
This some kind of weird joke yeah?
I pray for those who were harmed in this incident.
Unfortunately, given the photos of the accident, it doesn't look good for the pilots and maybe the FAs as well (depending on what side the FA in the front of the aircraft was sitting on). From what I've noticed, when these types of accidents occur, the fatalities are not immediately published. The firefighters were taken to a hospital, therefore it is easier for outside sources...
I pray for those who were harmed in this incident.
Unfortunately, given the photos of the accident, it doesn't look good for the pilots and maybe the FAs as well (depending on what side the FA in the front of the aircraft was sitting on). From what I've noticed, when these types of accidents occur, the fatalities are not immediately published. The firefighters were taken to a hospital, therefore it is easier for outside sources to track them and publish it. Meanwhile, if the pilots have indeed passed, it will take some time for them for authorities to be ready to publicly acknowledge that information (especially given that this accident occurred 3 hours ago near midnight).
Also, I flew out of LGA on Sunday evening as well. The airport was a mess. TSA lines were 2-3 hours long, and most flights were delayed, many significantly. It got worse as the day went on. There were a number of flights that took off just before this accident happened due to these delays. If the controller was indeed working alone, that is a huge workload to cover two active runways, one filled with a ton of aircraft waiting to depart.
That poor bastard in the tower. He was stuck all alone there, likely overworked, and now has caused this accident. Even though vastly overworked, I can't begin to imagine how awful the guy must feel. Let's hope it's better than it looks.
It's almost like people make mistakes when overworked and understaffed.
From the atc recording the truck was cleared to cross 4 and not told to stop until it was too late