The miles & points, airline, and hotel “hobby,” attracts interest from all kinds of people. We each have our preferences, from favorite hotel brands, to favorite airlines, to favorite loyalty programs.
Everyone is entitled to have their choice, and it’s good that we aren’t all on the same page, or else we’d all be competing for exactly the same thing. When people share why they’re loyal to a particular loyalty program, I can typically see where they’re coming from, even if I have different preferences, or arrive at different conclusions.
With that out of the way, I wanted to devote a post to what I consider to be the most simultaneously mysterious and fascinating part of our community — those who are fanatically devoted to certain airlines and hotels (whether it’s the company as such, the loyalty program, or both), and think they can do absolutely no wrong.
Honestly, I’m not trying to be shady, or to make fun of them, but rather I just want to express my appreciation for the extent to which they’re able to captivate my attention. I’m also curious if anyone can help me understand why they’re so dedicated to their “cause.”
In this post:
The various “flavors” of extreme travel loyalists
Whether you’re in the blogosphere, or FlyerTalk, or a Facebook group, every so often you’ll come across a person who is so loyal to a particular brand that you can’t help but be amazed that they aren’t on the company’s payroll.
Let me be clear — I’m not talking about someone who is maybe a bit more loyal to a brand than they objectively should be, because a loyalty program is doing a good job with influencing behavior. That’s totally normal, and it means the loyalty program is working. Rather, I’m talking about the tiny percentage of people who seem to think that the company they prefer or are loyal to is perfect in every way, and can do no wrong.
This comes in all kinds of forms, with some people being delightfully friendly, and others being condescending pricks. Everyone can draw their own conclusions. But the thing that’s consistent is that they’re loyal without exception. Let me give a few examples, without naming names (and for each of these, I can think of multiple people who fit the description):
- There are some people who intentionally spend tens of thousands of dollars per year flying what’s perhaps America’s most mediocre airline, yet rave every single time about how amazing it was, and how it’s the world’s finest airline, and they have no interest in flying any other airline ever
- There are some people who think there’s one hotel loyalty program that’s way better than the rest in every single way, and dismiss anyone who has a different experience; they may even bend the published terms of a loyalty program to suit their narrative
- There are some people who try to argue that every single thing that a particular airline or hotel does is correct, without exception; said airline or hotel group has never done anything wrong, ever
For what it’s worth, I’m largely not even talking about some of our more prolific commenters here…
I can’t make sense of the logic, but I love them
My (perhaps unpopular) take is that I think the travel industry overall — and particularly the airline industry — doesn’t get enough credit from consumers. It’s amazing how safely and efficiently we can travel across the globe, and what a good value it is.
Sure, there might be some surly employees, and sometimes communication may not be great, and sometimes a bag may get lost. But when you step back and think of our entire aviation ecosystem, it’s pretty damn impressive.
It’s even more impressive when you consider what a horrible industry this is financially. During the best of times, airlines have a profit margin of maybe 1-10%, while during mediocre or tough times, it’s a bloodbath. Despite that, there are a lot of passionate people who make the industry function, and they have my utmost respect.
All that being said, I think believing that any one brand is just amazing and head and shoulders above the rest is… baseless? For one, these are almost entirely publicly traded companies, with the objective of maximizing shareholder value. If you really think that everything any particular publicly traded company does is correct, then… well, we experience the world very differently.
I guess the other thing I wonder is what motivates people to be such public advocates exclusively for one brand, all while not being on the company’s payroll, and in many cases putting down people who disagree with them. If they genuinely feel so strongly about it… well, why?
I remember meeting a certain loyalty program executive many years ago, and one of our first topics of conversation was a certain “super fan” (to put it diplomatically) who always appears in the comments on any post about said program. This person was as confused and fascinated as I was.
Bottom line
While loyalty programs are designed to make people act irrationally, some people take that to the extreme in terms of how they feel about “their” airline or hotel. The people who fit in this category interest me greatly. I’d genuinely love to understand what makes them so passionate about one particular airline or hotel group or program.
But I suspect that my curiosity may not be satisfied here, because I feel like most of the people who fit into this category don’t actually view themselves the same way that most of us do, but rather think they’re simply the enlightened ones?
Anyone want to chime in?
If you are a fanatic of airline or hotel that means you will be overly loyal to a concerning state. I am loyal to various airlines or hotel groups for different reasons. Sometimes convenience, sometimes based on where I live and work, sometimes price, sometimes value, but I would not say I am loyal beyond belief. If there is a better option or what appears to be another option I would consider it. I think...
If you are a fanatic of airline or hotel that means you will be overly loyal to a concerning state. I am loyal to various airlines or hotel groups for different reasons. Sometimes convenience, sometimes based on where I live and work, sometimes price, sometimes value, but I would not say I am loyal beyond belief. If there is a better option or what appears to be another option I would consider it. I think some people are fanatics because they believe in the loyalty programs more than they are beyond the actual value.
As an avgeek sure i’d be getting much more rewards by using an AMEX platinum or CSR for daily purchases and traveling any airline.
Fandom is fandom. I don’t care what other people think. No need to be shamed for having loyalty to one airline. I can honestly give zeros fu&:$ what airlines you fly and news flash no one else cares. What makes you so special ?
I fly how I choose...
As an avgeek sure i’d be getting much more rewards by using an AMEX platinum or CSR for daily purchases and traveling any airline.
Fandom is fandom. I don’t care what other people think. No need to be shamed for having loyalty to one airline. I can honestly give zeros fu&:$ what airlines you fly and news flash no one else cares. What makes you so special ?
I fly how I choose to fly. I fly American. I am not saying they are the greatest airline but it’s what works for me and I enjoy flying with them.
Loyalty programs, specifically airline programs, are becoming a far cry from what they once were. Look at American. They'd rather sell an upgrade for $200 to a once every six months flyer than comp it to someone spending in excess of $50K a year with the airline. I suspect "benefits" will continue to be diluted. Not just way fewer upgrades, but far more call backs from the EXP desk and EXP agents either unable/unwilling/not allowed...
Loyalty programs, specifically airline programs, are becoming a far cry from what they once were. Look at American. They'd rather sell an upgrade for $200 to a once every six months flyer than comp it to someone spending in excess of $50K a year with the airline. I suspect "benefits" will continue to be diluted. Not just way fewer upgrades, but far more call backs from the EXP desk and EXP agents either unable/unwilling/not allowed to do much more than a general agent could.
Loyalty is a powerful force that can be good or ill.
Article yesterday mentions LAM Mozambique flight 470 - pilot suicide, where the pilot union is still disgreeing with the conclusion.
PARTING SHOT
Dear TJ:
I am gainfully employed as an Ivy League medical university prof and do not need the blog to earn a living. However, I am going to boot it up because I have decided that...
PARTING SHOT
Dear TJ:
I am gainfully employed as an Ivy League medical university prof and do not need the blog to earn a living. However, I am going to boot it up because I have decided that exposing the gaslighting that's been going on for years in travel blogosphere -- my "crusade" -- will require that I have access to means to be more expressive, like using charts, figures and clearly formatted equations that are not available in this space. Who knows, my "longer form" exposés might so be compelling I might even decide to monetize the site?
For instance, in the blocked post about the value of Chase UR points, the forum host asked:
The only problem? It is not at all clear a priori that the forum host values UR points more than any other points currency!
Comparing, e.g.,
1.7 cents/UR point vs. 1.5 cents/Air Canada point
and claiming that the UR point is worth more because 1.7cents is greater than 1.5 cents is to fail kindergarten-level math. Look at the denominators !!! UR point and Air Canada point are not same, therefore one cannot simply compare the numerators, i.e., the cents (1.7cents vs. 1.5cents) and conclude that the currency with the bigger "cents" is worth more than the other. However, that sort of stuff has been going on for years!
1.7 cents/"point" > 1.5 cents/"point" is correct.
1.7 cents/UR point > 1.5 cents/Air Canada point
is not correct a priori without doing a points currency conversion so that UR points and Air Canada point are on the same scale !!!
Which is the more expensive gasoline price?
1.5cents/gallon or 0.4cent/liter
Would you believe the two would get you exactly the same volume of gas?
Which is worth more?
0.5 cent/Hilton point vs. 1.5 cents/Hyatt point
Would you believe they worth exactly the same?
Which is why the forum host's question: "So how can I value Ultimate Rewards points more than any of the individual currencies you can redeem the points for?" makes no sense. No wonder the comments section was closed.
See y'all 'round campus!
@ DCS -- The comments section was closed as a mistake, because I forgot to push a certain button in WordPress to allow them. That has now been fixed. If you believe it was intentional, you'd think that I would block comments on every Hilton Honors post, no?
Regarding your point about the value of points, you're reading very selectively. I also said:
"First of all, Ultimate Rewards sometimes offers transfer bonuses, which can...
@ DCS -- The comments section was closed as a mistake, because I forgot to push a certain button in WordPress to allow them. That has now been fixed. If you believe it was intentional, you'd think that I would block comments on every Hilton Honors post, no?
Regarding your point about the value of points, you're reading very selectively. I also said:
"First of all, Ultimate Rewards sometimes offers transfer bonuses, which can get you even more value for your points. In some cases, you can get 25-30% extra points when you make a transfer, so taking advantage of this can get you outsized value for your points."
We've frequently seen Chase offer a 20%+ bonus on transfers to Aeroplan. So it's fair to value them more than any other points currency, in order to factor that in.
i saw this, yet another, mind numbing posting by DCS with lots of assertions and little to back it up, along with an assertion that he is very, very smart (Ivy League medical school employee and all).
And it just reminded me about the fact that I used to work with a guy who carried a 7 handicap. When I was asked about the quality of his work ( or specifically lack thereof), I’d...
i saw this, yet another, mind numbing posting by DCS with lots of assertions and little to back it up, along with an assertion that he is very, very smart (Ivy League medical school employee and all).
And it just reminded me about the fact that I used to work with a guy who carried a 7 handicap. When I was asked about the quality of his work ( or specifically lack thereof), I’d say “you can’t work full time and carry a 7 handicap.” So, when DCS’ students wonder why he doesn’t show up for office hours or rounds and the other profs wonder why he doesn’t do research, it’s because he spends all his time reading and posting on every travel blog out there.
But this is DCS’ parting shot here so i guess he’ll be busy on his blog or teaching and doing research from now on.
It will be so much quieter here…
Great Article, it reminded me that Four Seasons does have a hardcore fan on this blog.
@ Michael_FFM -- Yes, I think Four Seasons is the best major hotel group, and has the most consistent service. But I don't think the brand is perfect.
Just to give a couple of examples, Four Seasons has quite a bit of inconsistency in terms of the quality of properties, just like all other hotel groups. Furthermore, if you're looking for a boutique experience, Four Seasons isn't typically for you. Rather, Four Seasons does...
@ Michael_FFM -- Yes, I think Four Seasons is the best major hotel group, and has the most consistent service. But I don't think the brand is perfect.
Just to give a couple of examples, Four Seasons has quite a bit of inconsistency in terms of the quality of properties, just like all other hotel groups. Furthermore, if you're looking for a boutique experience, Four Seasons isn't typically for you. Rather, Four Seasons does large hotels very well.
As I said in this post, I have no issues with people having preferences. But it's when people are completely unwilling to be objective, and can't find any faults with their preferred brand, that I find it a bit strange.
Growing up, my dad was a Delta, Hertz, and Hilton guy. He's now in his mid 70s but those three brands have many fond memories for me because of the things we got to experience growing up. He's closing in on 3MM flown with Delta and is still fiercely loyal to the airline despite the fact it isn't convenient for him. I think part of it has to do with all of the fantastic IRROPS...
Growing up, my dad was a Delta, Hertz, and Hilton guy. He's now in his mid 70s but those three brands have many fond memories for me because of the things we got to experience growing up. He's closing in on 3MM flown with Delta and is still fiercely loyal to the airline despite the fact it isn't convenient for him. I think part of it has to do with all of the fantastic IRROPS CS saves over the years.
I grew up to become a United, National, Marriott guy and stay loyal because of all the help they've provided me throughout my travels
Interesting that this post is seemingly paired with a recent post about "How Much Are Chase Ultimate Rewards Points Worth?"... with comments seemingly disabled.
Ben- are you trolling the types that would comment incessantly on that particular post topic? There's usually more than one clueless "fanatic" on such posts...
What you note and add a little bit of VFTW-type content and headlines. Ben might be trying to recover lost page views. Last year, Google changed its search algorithm. As a result, traffic to ALL travel hobby sites is down substantially. Even TPG. On top of that, AI-driven sites and YouTube influencers (who know nothing about the hobby) have started to capture eyes. The blogs won't die but their peak might be in the past.
Yes, interesting that comments on that article aren't allowed.
@ DC -- Thanks for bringing that to my attention. For whatever reason, the "allow comments" box wasn't checked on that post. Fixed now. No wonder there was no engagement.
Have you heard of the diaper donnie trump cult??? The kind of people who are willing to wear a shirt that reads "real men wear diapers".
Using this as reference, if people are willing to vote against their own self-interests (and literally die as a result), does it really surprise anyone that people would take extreme positions on topics as superficial as airline/hotel preferences?
"I'd rather walk a mile with a Chevy hubcap than drive a Ford". Fandom sells beer, Doritos and sneakers because lots of people get comfort from fandom. To some of us, it's just a vehicle for selling Doritos. OTOH my fandom for This Game and for OMAAT is absolute.
Every program has its warts. That's a fact. It's one thing to overlook them when considering the benefits. It's another thing to say there are none.
I was sure that sooner or later someone was going to mention me as @Clem just did, in a post is so tone-deaf as a self-parody, it is comical.
LOL. Sounds...
I was sure that sooner or later someone was going to mention me as @Clem just did, in a post is so tone-deaf as a self-parody, it is comical.
LOL. Sounds to me like the forum host is referring to themself and to the majority of World of Hyatt fans, as captured in the following exchange over at FlyerTalk thread ( https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt/1970585-unfortunately-hotel-not-accepting-world-hyatt-points-award-stays-3.html):
Originally Posted by @churning:
Responding to comment above, commenter @WasKnown hit the nail right on head:
Go over a read the rest of it.
It's getting time for me to boot up my dormant blog so that I can continue exposing self-anointed "travel gurus"' constant gaslighting unimpeded...
G'day!
There you are! Right one cue!
Good job!
btw- how's that blog going, professor? Making lots of money on the traffic from your "dormant blog?" I'm sure everyone will be swarming your site soon....
Hell yeah! Just say they're "Gaslighting." It's the trendy new way to deflect from having to self-reflect!
Meanwhile, the same person has frequently insisted that I also argued with him under a completely different moniker, despite repeatedly telling him that I have only ever used "Joe" or "JoePro".
Better yet: the denial that Ben is a "well-established travel guru." And NOT "Self-Annointed".
If those aren't peak examples of Gaslighting, I'll be a monkey's uncle.
The airline industry more than any other breeds loyalty.
Problem is that many fans are fanatics – those that are incapable of putting their passion into perspective - such as airlines led by avgeeks that added 60% more capacity to a region where they were already the largest airline -and subsequently lost money while their smaller competitor manages to make a lot of money on half the capacity. But the CEO of that larger airline...
The airline industry more than any other breeds loyalty.
Problem is that many fans are fanatics – those that are incapable of putting their passion into perspective - such as airlines led by avgeeks that added 60% more capacity to a region where they were already the largest airline -and subsequently lost money while their smaller competitor manages to make a lot of money on half the capacity. But the CEO of that larger airline touts size and the expanse of its network as its greatest attribute – and no shortage of fanatics are wooed.
Fanaticism is thinking that the success of an airlines transatlantic product is centimeters of difference in the footwell of a business class product – and yet the airline that supposedly has “the crappy” business seat managed to make twice as much as its much larger competitor.
Fanaticism is the inability to maintain perspective. OCD is incessantly focusing on stuff to the exclusion of reality.
That’s one side of the equation. The other is that the five articles before this one COMBINED had less than 20 reader responses; all kinds of mileage and foreign airline stories and nobody is interested. This on top of data from one of OMAAT’s competitive sites that shows that Ben’s site generates far less pageviews that other top-tier sites.
So, Ben trots out an article about some of his most loyal visitors and the first responeses and 20% of the responses are about one person – and anyone has the nerve to talk about OCD in any one other than those people that absolutely FIXATE on other users?
The reality is that Ben doesn’t or can’t produce content that readers want to read or engage with so he mocks his readers. What a winning formula!
He finally realized that his readers see the hypocrisy of him running around the world reviewing airlines based in countries where the human rights that define his life are nonexistent or a fraction of what he needs to live the life he lives in the US of A. So, now he is going to review US airlines more.
Let’s be honest. Ben’s business plan isn’t working.
Social media provides a lot of insight into some people. OMAAT appears to have a few sane, rational readers that post but there are a whole lot of fanatics with OCD which Ben has to feed in order to keep his baby from starving.
Someone, please, just start a Go Fund Me for Miles.
Ben’s page has far less page views? I guess that is because he tries not to always put in so much clickbait articles. Also, Ben reviews foreign airlines as opposed to U.S. airlines because he is probably not so U.S. centric. He acknowledges that he has readers from other countries. Furthermore, there are actually many readers in the U.S. who prefer flying non-U.S. airlines.
TD wrote:
‘which Ben has to feed in order...
Ben’s page has far less page views? I guess that is because he tries not to always put in so much clickbait articles. Also, Ben reviews foreign airlines as opposed to U.S. airlines because he is probably not so U.S. centric. He acknowledges that he has readers from other countries. Furthermore, there are actually many readers in the U.S. who prefer flying non-U.S. airlines.
TD wrote:
‘which Ben has to feed in order to keep his baby from starving.’
‘Someone, please, just start a Go Fund Me for Miles.’
HOW DARE YOU! You bringing Ben and Ford’s child into your psychotic rant. If you think you are doing so well yourself why don’t you take your own advice and start the fund?
You should never ever stoop to such a low level as to bring someone’s child into an argument. You can keep your comments to yourself or you can direct them to the person whom you have a disagreement with but you need to stop and be more respectful.
Ben has discussed and discuss his family on this blog. The adoption of his son drew hundreds of responses and congratulations including from me. If Ben doesn't want to talk about his family, he wouldn't have brought it into the discussion.
His son is not the point - but it isn't a surprise that some of you can't figure that out.
Ben makes money - maybe not a living but money - running a blog...
Ben has discussed and discuss his family on this blog. The adoption of his son drew hundreds of responses and congratulations including from me. If Ben doesn't want to talk about his family, he wouldn't have brought it into the discussion.
His son is not the point - but it isn't a surprise that some of you can't figure that out.
Ben makes money - maybe not a living but money - running a blog in which he peddles credit cards for which he gets compensated.
All of the airline and non-loyalty, not credit card articles are to create pageviews that determine the compensation he gets for those credit cards advertisements.
Web page stats are not super secret. His competitors (the ones that do better than him) publish the standings.
There are clearly people read all of the content that Ben produces but Ben's business plan doesn't do near as well as his competitors. And that either means that others financially do better from their blogs.
Ben loves to stimulate controversy to create pageviews in ways that other blog articles have found is not beneficial for them.
Ben might figure out that having a handful of people - and himself - obsess with one or more users is not beneficial to BEN's financial outcome.
But others have clearly established that part of being a fanatic is being unable to put all things in perspective and to NOT obsess over things that don't matter in the grand scheme of schemes.
You are the one that needs to put things in perspective. You are the one who brought up Miles in this article for no other reason but to be bitter and rude. You are the one who keeps putting down Ben with hateful language and you try to make yourself feel superior by pitting Ben’s blog with others.
Then, show your sources if you are so confident about it. Even if it were true...
You are the one that needs to put things in perspective. You are the one who brought up Miles in this article for no other reason but to be bitter and rude. You are the one who keeps putting down Ben with hateful language and you try to make yourself feel superior by pitting Ben’s blog with others.
Then, show your sources if you are so confident about it. Even if it were true who cares about the Jerry Springer type of bloggers out there who make money by posting clickbait after clickbait.
Do you know Ben had the decency to share with us about his son but in a very positive way. It was not so you can use it to make horrific comments at Ben’s family.
@ Tim Dunn -- I'll take what you say at face value, and assume that you're being sincere. Thanks for being concerned for my family. I have some good news, which is that things are going well at OMAAT, and my son will be fine.
I've been blogging for over 16 years, and I hope to continue blogging for 16 more years, if not longer. If you're worried that I'm no longer making a living,...
@ Tim Dunn -- I'll take what you say at face value, and assume that you're being sincere. Thanks for being concerned for my family. I have some good news, which is that things are going well at OMAAT, and my son will be fine.
I've been blogging for over 16 years, and I hope to continue blogging for 16 more years, if not longer. If you're worried that I'm no longer making a living, I'm happy to report that OMAAT is doing well financially. Take my word for it. Take my word for it. And if you don't, then you can do your victory lap when I shut down the blog and have to find another job to make a living.
You're right that there has been a mild decrease in traffic in the past year. That has been the case across most of the travel blogosphere, due to changes with Google search. That's fine, and traffic decreases here have been less than on many other sites. I've been doing this for a long time, and I've seen significant increases and decreases over the years, and eventually things always normalize. I am confident that this time is no different.
It's also important to remember that traffic and revenue aren't the same. Let me put it in terms you can easily understand. Delta might not be the biggest airline, but it is the most profitable. I'm not saying I'm Delta, but I am saying that there's not a direct correlation between traffic and revenue.
Let me share one other thing, to address your seeming main character syndrome. You seem to think my business is totally failing, and the only way I can make money is by getting you to engage in the comments section, because you're so interesting.
What you don't seem to understand is that 99% of people who check the site don't check the comments sections. Of the millions of people who visit OMAAT every year, it's only a small, engaged core that comments. If I had to rank aspects of OMAAT that generate revenue, the comments section would barely make the list, as much as I enjoy reading what people have to say.
So it would be really dumb if my strategy to save my "failing business" were to try to increase engagement in the comments, because that's not what drives traffic or revenue.
I hope this clears some things up. :-)
I am grateful that you took the time to respond, Ben. Really, I appreciate it.
I don't really think you or your family is hurting for anything and I expect you live a fairly comfortable life.
I totally get that your profit margin could be higher but I would love for you to explain why yours is higher than other sites that generate higher page views.
My simple question - which I...
I am grateful that you took the time to respond, Ben. Really, I appreciate it.
I don't really think you or your family is hurting for anything and I expect you live a fairly comfortable life.
I totally get that your profit margin could be higher but I would love for you to explain why yours is higher than other sites that generate higher page views.
My simple question - which I have raised before and you to which you have yet to respond is why do you need to make note of, esp. in any way that could be in any way negative, about any reader of your blog?
And why do you allow clear spam accounts that exist for no other reason than to mock other participants on your forum?
Let's be very clear. I am not interested in having any larger role on any site other than for the comments I post.
Some people clearly can't stand to read some of the factual statements I make and I get that they will squirm and fight back but all you have to do is make it clear that everyone gets their opinion and snuff out worthless comments and attacks that many of your participants DO see as obsessive and unhealthy, esp. when REPEATEDLY, they trash the comment section before anyone else including me, shows up.
I want you to succeed. I know the system in which you participate works and am happy to contribute to your success. I do not want to be highlighted in your articles directly or obliquely. Write what you have to write, esp. if comments are such a small part of your page views.
And then get rid of the useless comments that do nothing except detract from the content which YOU have worked to prepare.
I'd still like to meet you in person just as I have done w/ other bloggers.
@ Tim Dunn -- You have my commitment that I won't in any way reference you in any post going forward, directly or indirectly.
To answer your question about site monetization, let me explain. Page views as such don't make money, it's a function of how you monetize them. Most blogs make money through a combination of impression based ads, sponsored content, affiliate marketing, etc.
I don't have much sponsored content, so it's...
@ Tim Dunn -- You have my commitment that I won't in any way reference you in any post going forward, directly or indirectly.
To answer your question about site monetization, let me explain. Page views as such don't make money, it's a function of how you monetize them. Most blogs make money through a combination of impression based ads, sponsored content, affiliate marketing, etc.
I don't have much sponsored content, so it's mainly impression based ads and affiliate marketing.
When it comes to impression based ads, not every impression pays the same. For example, you keep referencing how apparently my site is going to hell because VFTW has seen a huge increase in traffic.
That increase is largely due to the great job he has done with writing content that has "wide appeal," shall we say, from naked people strutting through the airport, to sexy tips for joining the mile high club. That stuff gets a lot more eyeballs than tips for maximizing your rewards. It's totally his prerogative to write that, but it's not an area I'm interested in competing in.
Now, generally that type of traffic (not specific to VFTW, but more broadly) isn't terribly high quality -- it's people who click on a site, don't stay for long, and don't come back, since they just found it through Google.
For example, another important metric for a website is average visit time to a site, since people will be served more ads as they scroll through a story and spend more time on a site. Looking at publicly available data, OMAAT has an average visit time that's 67% longer than VFTW. Make of it what you will, but each person visiting is spending a lot more time here.
Similarly, my focus is heavily on miles & points content, and that's also easier to monetize than tabloid content, for obvious reasons, since I largely have affiliate marketing for credit cards, etc.
To be clear, I'm not saying that I write this kind of content because it makes me the most money. I write about miles & points because that's my passion and interest, and because I have no interest in writing most tabloid-style stories.
I'm only saying this because you're suggesting you suggested above that I'm probably not even making a living anymore writing this blog. Are we on the same page now? :-)
Other than the details which you have just provided, we were always on the same page.
as for the quality of Gary‘s articles, 100% right and I have told him that anecdotes don’t mean anything in the scope of the size of the airline industry.
he has done a good job of getting rid of the trolls whether that be political or attacks against other users.
For leaving me solely as a...
Other than the details which you have just provided, we were always on the same page.
as for the quality of Gary‘s articles, 100% right and I have told him that anecdotes don’t mean anything in the scope of the size of the airline industry.
he has done a good job of getting rid of the trolls whether that be political or attacks against other users.
For leaving me solely as a comment contributor and nothing else, many, many thanks.
Dinner is on me when we get the opportunity to meet, including for Miles
All the best to you, my friend.
On the one hand, you are a strange little bird.... why are you commenting on this board if that's the way you feel? Just live your 'correct" and "superior" life, but buzz off- OK?? Why are YOU always here?
On the other hand, I always find it strange when I on some tangent agree with you- in this case, about the wackos that are obsessed with obsessives (see my first comment in this thread). I...
On the one hand, you are a strange little bird.... why are you commenting on this board if that's the way you feel? Just live your 'correct" and "superior" life, but buzz off- OK?? Why are YOU always here?
On the other hand, I always find it strange when I on some tangent agree with you- in this case, about the wackos that are obsessed with obsessives (see my first comment in this thread). I find you.... quirky.... but I find those obsessed with you just..... odd....
"Someone, please, just start a Go Fund Me for Miles."
And a psychiatrist for you to wean you off of your Delta obsession?
"This on top of data from one of OMAAT’s competitive sites that shows that Ben’s site generates far less pageviews that other top-tier sites."
Source?
"but there are a whole lot of fanatics with OCD which Ben has to feed in order to keep his baby from starving."
And if that were true, you would be the prime example of that lol
You are an absolutely disgusting troll, Delta fan-boy tendencies aside. It's one thing for you to be completely unable to accept criticism. It's further one thing for you to constantly put yourself (with your name) in the public eye (for as much as this is public) and clearly react in a childish manner to criticism. You've taken it to absolutely another level, though, when you criticize Ben's family in such an off-handed manner. I hope...
You are an absolutely disgusting troll, Delta fan-boy tendencies aside. It's one thing for you to be completely unable to accept criticism. It's further one thing for you to constantly put yourself (with your name) in the public eye (for as much as this is public) and clearly react in a childish manner to criticism. You've taken it to absolutely another level, though, when you criticize Ben's family in such an off-handed manner. I hope he deletes your post and bans you from his website, just like you've been banned from FlyerTalk and other travel blogs for your ridiculous antics over the years.
Ben appears to be a really nice guy, so this kind of trolling behavior just makes you look like the child that you are. Go to therapy or something, seriously, and wear your Delta memorabilia on your arm everyday when you meet with your therapist while you're at it. See if they have anything interesting to ask/say to you ...
We read Ben's reviews because some of us actually do travel internationally quite frequently, and we do use premium products. This is a premium travel blog. I don't need 50 reviews on AA, UA, or DL first class from IND to XXX. I want to know what are the best airlines to fly globally. I want to know when award sales on airlines like Turkish, Etihad, and Qatar are available, so I can use my miles to go to a far-flung new place, away from the arrogant hordes of American tourists who gallivant around the world with attitudes just like yourself (I'm American btw).
I give Ben props for not trolling back to his trolls in the comment section as much as Matthew Klint at LiveAndLetsFly does, but in this case, I think you need a good trolling back. You're a sick sycophant with probably few associates or friends. When I picture you blogging, I picture you from an ill-lit corner of a wood-paneled basement in your mother's house, 45 years old, never been laid, and without any friends.
Maybe you're on the spectrum or something, fine. But having a mental illness does not give you the right to, without provocation (unless for some reason you feel provoked, which is your own issue you have to work out), attack another person's family/character in this manner. I recognize the irony in that statement, given I'm attacking you. But you went low ... so I kicked you. Someone had to.
The comparison some folks made in the comments with sports or music fans doesn't really hold: admiring someone's artistry or athletic performance (even sometimes to absurd level) makes more sense than being a die hard for a hotel or airline or supermarket chain.
But yes on this blog we probably all think about Tim Dunn or DCS, who I thought had disappeared but then I just saw his completely unhinged/condescending rant on the recent...
The comparison some folks made in the comments with sports or music fans doesn't really hold: admiring someone's artistry or athletic performance (even sometimes to absurd level) makes more sense than being a die hard for a hotel or airline or supermarket chain.
But yes on this blog we probably all think about Tim Dunn or DCS, who I thought had disappeared but then I just saw his completely unhinged/condescending rant on the recent Zemi Beach House review, so he seems to be doing "well". I want to believe that those folks are just very elaborate trolls with a looot of time on their hands, but I'm fairly certain most of them are just not doing so well mentally, maybe very lonely folks because there indeed isn't a reason to obsess that much over a corporation that literally does not care about them.
Mental Health safety mantra for all in The Game:
"It's a corporation; it's not going to love you back."
this.... totally this.
and yet there are people that can't understand that loyalty programs exist to increase the financial well-being of a company and for no other reason.
And all of the airlines and hotels and rental cars are for-profit companies. If they do everything else right and can't make money, they have failed at the first reason they exist.
And yet there are people that obsess with the number of cities an airline...
this.... totally this.
and yet there are people that can't understand that loyalty programs exist to increase the financial well-being of a company and for no other reason.
And all of the airlines and hotels and rental cars are for-profit companies. If they do everything else right and can't make money, they have failed at the first reason they exist.
And yet there are people that obsess with the number of cities an airline flies to, the amenities in a hotel room, or the size of a business class footwell - all for airlines that vastly financially underperform their competitors.
And then those same people go absolutely nuts when anyone criticizes them - and then launch into anonymous attacks on users that DARE highlight the truth - IN PERSPECTIVE.
and, as others have noted, it is United Airlines employees that are by far the most die-hard at accepting any balanced criticism of their company.
When you have a CEO that touts metrics that are ancillary to their primary objective of making money, it isn't a surprise that so many United employees not only have no proper perspective of reality but also can't accept legitimate criticism.
The problem with folks like you, @Clem, is that you'll make a baseless, and yes, unhinged, comment as you just did about my highly didactic comment on the difference between Hilton standard and premium awards in the Zemi Beach House review, but you will be unable...
The problem with folks like you, @Clem, is that you'll make a baseless, and yes, unhinged, comment as you just did about my highly didactic comment on the difference between Hilton standard and premium awards in the Zemi Beach House review, but you will be unable to articulate clearly why that comment was a "completely unhinged/condescending rant" when challenged because I am 100% sure that you did not understand any of it. If I am wrong about that, then here's your opportunity to prove me wrong.
Yes, @Clem made a baseless comment. He said you are doing "well." You are clearly.... ahem.... at your "baseline"
Which is infinitely better than you at your peak best, guaranteed :-)
@DCS haha I'm not about to challenge you on anything, you'd love that too much. I'm just saying your "explanation" was condescending, just like 99% of your comments on this blog, and if you can't see it there's nothing anyone can do for you my friend. If you're truly an "Ivy League prof" I feel for your students. Or are you, to quote your favorite term ever, a "self anointed ivy League medical prof guru"...
@DCS haha I'm not about to challenge you on anything, you'd love that too much. I'm just saying your "explanation" was condescending, just like 99% of your comments on this blog, and if you can't see it there's nothing anyone can do for you my friend. If you're truly an "Ivy League prof" I feel for your students. Or are you, to quote your favorite term ever, a "self anointed ivy League medical prof guru" ;)? Looking forward to reading your next highly didactic research paper. xoxo
Being parasocial is one thing, but then there's the one unofficial group where the moderator takes it even further. They have their own fan club and recruit members from other groups with fake profiles since they were suspended from flyertalk and various groups. They ask for way too much information to be in the group, and when you are in there are all these rules that you have to follow with the slightest bit of...
Being parasocial is one thing, but then there's the one unofficial group where the moderator takes it even further. They have their own fan club and recruit members from other groups with fake profiles since they were suspended from flyertalk and various groups. They ask for way too much information to be in the group, and when you are in there are all these rules that you have to follow with the slightest bit of questioning getting you blocked.
In other groups where their main profile is still allowed to post, they critique anyone for not knowing the rules, having even reasonable expectations, or gets told that they don't spend enough with the brand to even deserve any sort of reasonable treatment. Meanwhile, they have a long list of demands themselves like the room needing to never get any warmer than the lowest setting on the thermostat or they immediately check out.
The only fanatical travel-related loyalty I ever exhibited was as an Amanjunkie in the late 90s, when Aman was otherworldly and worthy of worship. No status. No rewards. Just Adrian Zecha goodness. And I wasn’t posting about it on social media or blogs.
*cough* Tim Dunn *cough*
Motel 6 never ever had a dirty bathroom. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Totally agree. The British Airways forum at FlyerTalk is a bizarre case in point of this. It's calmed down a bit recently, but there is a contingent of users there who would defend BA through anything. I believe there's still a group who insist the old style ying-yang Club World seating is "better" than the new Club Suite. And I think they'd rather have the covid-era box catering than the current offering. The whole attitude...
Totally agree. The British Airways forum at FlyerTalk is a bizarre case in point of this. It's calmed down a bit recently, but there is a contingent of users there who would defend BA through anything. I believe there's still a group who insist the old style ying-yang Club World seating is "better" than the new Club Suite. And I think they'd rather have the covid-era box catering than the current offering. The whole attitude is very British. I feel like there's some patriotic origin to it all.
More generally British is to moan about everything!
I struggle to understand this sort of "loyalty" to a corporation (although I can understand to a particular hotel)
Is it something about sunk cost - they have spent so much money/effort getting something from a corporation that they want to feel it was worthwhile?
Signed,
A Brit
I also think it’s worth mentioning not to understate the importance of the potential halo effect of childhood experiences. If someone has their first flight on, say, Sharkwest Airlines and stays at a Quadrupletree hotel with positive, memorable and special experiences it’s likely they’ll remember that as they enter adolescence and begin their own travels.
So true. My first Bangkok solo trip I arrived on my birthday and stayed (for the first time) at Babylon. The experience was so profound I don't even know who I am anymore. My feelings about BKK are... well... less than objective.
I am a devout Delta loyalist!!!
They’ve been incredibly kind to me making me a lifetime 360° and Diamond Member with my 5 million flight miles.
The loyalty is not from my status but it comes from their ability to fix any travel interruption with ease.
An example at CDG last summer my connecting flight in Frankfurt was already massively delayed but I arrived at 4.30 am - unfortunately before the Delta counter...
I am a devout Delta loyalist!!!
They’ve been incredibly kind to me making me a lifetime 360° and Diamond Member with my 5 million flight miles.
The loyalty is not from my status but it comes from their ability to fix any travel interruption with ease.
An example at CDG last summer my connecting flight in Frankfurt was already massively delayed but I arrived at 4.30 am - unfortunately before the Delta counter opened. I was easily booked at no cost on a direct routing to my final destination at zero extra cost.
Or losing my luggage from JFK-TUN. The diamond luggage representative owned the problem until it was solved and communicated directly and frequently with me. (Technically this was an Alitalia issue but Delta solved it ).
Ultimately there are countless stories I have like this. The loyalty is because Delta solves all problems and makes my unique travel adventures possible.
DH
Go try posting something negative about AC in the AC forum on FT.
You will get the same 3-4 extreme fanboys (granted some have high up connections at AC), including the moderators, on your case within minutes.
I think it's a very similar phenomenon to whiteknighting - the commenters consciously or subconsciously hold out hope that if they just stan a little harder, prove their loyalty a little longer, company execs will notice them and [give them a paid role?] [recognize or award them in some formal way?] [consult with them on strategy?].
I agree that it's a morbidly fascinating pathology.
People do this with all sorts of things -- fast food, for example: try telling a superfan that Chick-Fil-A is overpriced, or that Arby's fries maybe -aren't- the best
I do think that The Dunnald does stand out as one of the most visible 'superfans' out there though
Just to echo other comments, it's human nature. I have a colleague who is so much a Beyoncé fan, I often wonder if everything is OK up there. They often act irrationally as well like condemn something in others but applaud it in their idols. We just accept them as they are and try not to bring up any topics that trigger them
It's not just in the travel community, it's prevalent in other communities as well.
There will always be that type of person, the diehard loyalist who downplays information that is against his/her POV and puffs up information in his/her favor. I just try to accept it and move on and try to see things from a clear frame of mind.
I want an anthropologist to study the brains of Southwest Airlines flyers. OMG, you can't tell them ANYTHING. Even after that holiday meltdown a couple of years ago they were STILL making excuses and proclaiming it the best airline on planet Earth!
Runner up: Hyatt people. I love Hyatt, but, they simply don't have enough properties. Try telling a Hyatt loyalist as such, and they will look at you like you're crazy, and tell you...
I want an anthropologist to study the brains of Southwest Airlines flyers. OMG, you can't tell them ANYTHING. Even after that holiday meltdown a couple of years ago they were STILL making excuses and proclaiming it the best airline on planet Earth!
Runner up: Hyatt people. I love Hyatt, but, they simply don't have enough properties. Try telling a Hyatt loyalist as such, and they will look at you like you're crazy, and tell you to change your travel patterns, and question the sizes of the cities you're going to.
People tend to speak like the small Hyatt footprint mean loyalists are physically unable to stay in other places. I have no problem pivoting to Hilton when I need to (doing so when I stop in Brussels and Luxembourgh soon).
Hyatt still takes the cake when it comes to benefits for top-tier and consistency among brands.
Exactly what JoePro said, albeit Marriott is my preferred backup program (because of guaranteed late checkout for Platinum and up at non-resort/non-convention hotels).
I'm pretty loyal to Hyatt, but I definitely admit their faults, the small footprint being the biggest. For me, the second-biggest is that most of their properties lack hot tubs (especially on the lower end). Along a given route, you can usually find a random Residence Inn, or at least a crappy...
Exactly what JoePro said, albeit Marriott is my preferred backup program (because of guaranteed late checkout for Platinum and up at non-resort/non-convention hotels).
I'm pretty loyal to Hyatt, but I definitely admit their faults, the small footprint being the biggest. For me, the second-biggest is that most of their properties lack hot tubs (especially on the lower end). Along a given route, you can usually find a random Residence Inn, or at least a crappy Fairfield Inn or similar low-end Marriott property, that has a hot tub. Same cannot be said for Hyatt. (Case in point: the entire drive from the Tampa area to Chicago; there are Hyatts in each of those cities with hot tubs, but not a single one in-between. Even the fairly-new Grand Hyatt in Nashville [2020] doesn't have a hot tub, let alone most Hyatt Place/Hyatt House properties.) (And yes, this factors strongly into my decision on where to stay, along with whether the room has central air versus those crappy, cheap, loud wall-mounted AC units. That's another strength of Hyatt, as all of their new properties - including Place/House - seem to have central-style air.)
I made the mistake of talking down United for the step child treatment it gives my home airport of DEN.
The mods seems they like United a bit too much. Got banned from Airliners.net for 2 weeks. That was almost 5 months ago. Send them a couple of emails asking why and never got a response.
DCS is a legend and since I’ve been staying at more Hilton’s lately, I have to admit that he might have been onto something all those years
Hilton is fine as a brand and loyalty program, not as good as other programs but not as bad as others. And their properties are just okay. Lot of nice properties, but also a fair share of very dated properties (especially Doubletree). It's just very middle of the road in my opinion. I just find there's no need to get so defensively worked and wound up about it like he does a lot on here. It's a loyalty program, not someone's dog.
This can be just chalked up to human behavior/psychology.
No different than blind faith to a sports team, celebrity, or politician.
Faithfulness and reverence to a person(s), object, or identity, without logic or rational reason. The human mind is just peculiar that way.
The OMAAT users think otherwise.
Excluding me, I must say.
I’m guessing it’s basically a form of internet trolling - either people are bored, make money off of it somehow, or just have a psychological personality quirk. There are conspiracy theorists and people with myopic focus on a variety of topics. Just how humans are I guess ♂️
Too many award fliers (particularly newbies) are currently on the same page about ANA & Japan Airlines, unfortunately
Look at it this way, most of those people booking said award flights are probably new to international travel, and likely never had to front their own money on an international ticket, let alone a business ticket. If JAL or ANA biz was my first ever international flight experience, I’d look at everything with rose colored glasses too!
Same thing stateside, a business class trip across the US in a domestic carrier is a...
Look at it this way, most of those people booking said award flights are probably new to international travel, and likely never had to front their own money on an international ticket, let alone a business ticket. If JAL or ANA biz was my first ever international flight experience, I’d look at everything with rose colored glasses too!
Same thing stateside, a business class trip across the US in a domestic carrier is a mediocre service at best, but to someone who never left their rural hometown it can feel like an amazing experience. So really it’s all about perspective.
They may be genuine fans lucky enough to receive stellar service all the time...
Genuine fans, but affected by a cognitive bias...
Paid trolls...
Unpaid trolls who simply wanna stir the pot for kicks...
People on spectrum...
It's so difficult to tell them apart...
If you remove the airline/hotel context, these fans (isn't that short for fanatics?) are everywhere - music, sport, entertainment, etc. Perhaps a mental health professional can comment; they can probably explain these behaviors (or the sources/causes).
it's really just as simply as human beings love being part of a tribe/group
look at diehard sports fans it's just as irrational
Bingo!
Although I’m not sure that explains the Tim Dunn level OCD.
Yep. I'm a sports fan and I have seen the same behavior among them as well.
let me get my popcorn and await Tim Dunn's response
Betting he doesn’t show …
Let me add a mystifying group of individuals to the mix- the folks who follow the antics of individual fanboys so much to the point of being an unhealthy obsession.
Many times, the comments are dominated by certain folks just trying to "poke the bear". I can understand the "ultimate fanboys" who due to a combination of being a little "neuroatypical" and generally involved in a field/ social group that makes them the toxic...
Let me add a mystifying group of individuals to the mix- the folks who follow the antics of individual fanboys so much to the point of being an unhealthy obsession.
Many times, the comments are dominated by certain folks just trying to "poke the bear". I can understand the "ultimate fanboys" who due to a combination of being a little "neuroatypical" and generally involved in a field/ social group that makes them the toxic combination of socially isolated and high achieving in their field. Those folks seem to LOVE their airline/ hotel/ points valuations, whatever. I get they they are insufferable prigs.
But the idiots who goad them on? Geez, get a life. They're actually worse than the "fanatically devoted loyalists."
@DC this.
@DC, I will admit to poking the bear once in a while when a certain commenter takes it too far; especially when he starts insulting our host, @Ben. That said, I agree that there are people who seem obsessed with them, especially those that try to get @DCS and @TimDunn to engage when they haven't even posted yet on a thread.
Regarding the folks @Ben is talking about, everyone is entitled to their opinion and...
@DC, I will admit to poking the bear once in a while when a certain commenter takes it too far; especially when he starts insulting our host, @Ben. That said, I agree that there are people who seem obsessed with them, especially those that try to get @DCS and @TimDunn to engage when they haven't even posted yet on a thread.
Regarding the folks @Ben is talking about, everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine being different doesn't invalidate theirs. However, they tend to present their opinions as facts and their experiences as universal. Therefore, if I disagree, they think I'm saying they are wrong. It does get tiresome.
And yet, they show up here, regardless of whether they are goaded or not...except, how would they know they are goaded? Unless they were going to come to this site and read the articles and comments section anyway...
Well said @AD
And the self anointed Hilton guru who'll go on multiple paragraph long diatribes about Hilton, even though most people on here just say it's average for a program.