I’d like to think that I have pretty reasonable (low) expectations of customer relations departments at airlines, but even by that standard, this seems especially bad to me.
In this post:
An unreliable trip to Canada on American Airlines
I recently wrote about a trip that Ford had booked to Canada on American, as he was scheduled to fly American from Miami to Toronto and then American from Montreal to Miami:
- American canceled his outbound flight
- American delayed his return flight, so he misconnected, causing an overnight in Philadelphia
Obviously operational issues happen, but what was so frustrating is how American handled the situation on the return. Usually it’s hard to hold airlines accountable, though in this case there’s at least some recourse.
The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) has some great consumer protections, entitling passengers to cash compensation in the event of delays or cancelations within a carrier’s control. This is somewhat similar to the EU261 policy in Europe, and it clearly outlines what passengers are entitled to in the event of operational disruptions.
So, while Ford would have preferred for this trip to just go smoothly, he’s actually due quite a bit of cash compensation under these regulations.
Let me also emphasize that there are clear guidelines about how airlines have to handle complaints regarding government mandated air passenger rights. For example, here’s American’s page about air passenger rights involving Canada. The CTA also requires airlines to either issue compensation within 30 days, or state why compensation isn’t due.
American Airlines tries to ignore compensation claims twice
Since the outbound and return were two separate tickets, Ford emailed customer relations twice, around three weeks apart. In both cases he outlined that he’s looking for the cash compensation he is entitled to under Canadian regulations, and he even linked to American’s webpage outlining passenger rights. He explained what happened (that the operational issues were within American’s control) and what he should be entitled to.
He sent his first complaint on June 26, and received the following response on June 27:
Thank you for contacting us.
I’m truly sorry to hear about your experience. It is always our goal to run a timely and reliable operation, and we are sorry to see we missed the mark on your trip. We’re paying careful attention to the feedback our customers are providing us and the details you shared with us have been made available to our leadership to be used to improve our service.
As an AAdvantage® member, your business means a great deal to us, and we’d like to ask for another chance to rebuild your confidence. As a tangible form of our apology, we’ve deposited miles into your AAdvantage® account. These miles will be visible within 24 hours.
From all of us at American Airlines, we’re glad you chose to fly with us and look forward to caring for you on your next journey.
He then responded with the following:
Thank you for the response, but this does not address my concerns. As I explained in the email, I’m seeking the cash compensation I am entitled to under Canadian law, where my ticket originated. You can find American’s passenger rights page for tickets originating in Canada here.
I appreciate your prompt help with this.
He hasn’t heard from American since then. American does have up to 30 days to issue compensation, so the airline has until around July 26.
Ford submitted his second complaint on July 15, and received a response on July 16. Anyone want to guess how that read? Well, it was the same as the first email, word-for-word.
He then responded with the following:
Thank you for the response, but this does not address my concerns. As I explained in the email, I’m seeking the cash compensation I am entitled to under Canadian law, given the ticket I was booked on. You can find American’s passenger rights page for tickets originating in Canada here.
Allow me to remind you that in line with Canadian regulations, American has 30 days to provide the compensation promised by Canadian law. I look forward to your prompt response.
Look, my expectations of airline customer relations departments are pretty low when it comes to them actually caring about feedback. But when the airline chooses to blatantly ignore government regulations, I’d consider that to be a problem.
I’m just confused by American’s strategy here:
- Does American just not read emails, and copy and paste the same response for everyone, no matter what’s contained in the email?
- Does American think that the best course of action to avoid paying compensation is to just offer some AAdvantage bonus miles, and hope that people will go away? “Boy, I mean, I’m entitled to $1,000 CAD under the law, but I guess 5,000 AAdvantage miles will do!”
I’ll be sure to report back on how this goes. If American isn’t living up to its obligations under Canadian law, a CTA complaint will be filed.
I’m curious, if anyone else has been entitled to government mandated compensation from American, did the airline actually follow the law, or try to just ignore it?
Bottom line
In some cases, airlines are required to pay cash compensation under the law, with clearly defined rules. Ford had a recent trip to Canada where American was unreliable in both directions, which entitles him to cash compensation.
American seems to be ignoring the law, and just trying to offer some AAdvantage bonus miles as compensation. As an isolated incident, I would have assumed that maybe the agent just didn’t read the email correctly. But now twice in a row, American has tried to ignore these claims.
What’s your take on how American customer relations is handling this?
I am based in London and was on a flight to CTL and then to Belize the following day, but the flight had to return to LHR some 60 mins after take off. This was due to only have one of the two navigation systems working and its a legal requirement for both to work on any flight crossing the Atlantic. So instead of dumping the fuel and going back to LHR the captain decided...
I am based in London and was on a flight to CTL and then to Belize the following day, but the flight had to return to LHR some 60 mins after take off. This was due to only have one of the two navigation systems working and its a legal requirement for both to work on any flight crossing the Atlantic. So instead of dumping the fuel and going back to LHR the captain decided to fly around for 4 hours so by the time we landed there was no prospect of getting any flight to the USA meaning I was going to miss 2 days of my week Long holiday. When we landed it took them 10 mins to fix the issue but we were not going to take off again, as guess what the crew would have run out of hours. I did raise this subject with captain who took it upon himself say he was sorry to only those of up front. I told him not a decision I would have made and was told in a rather patronizing tone "that's why captains to fly planes, and not customers" My retort was, yes but I am trained commercial pilot. So when i got back to the UK I started what has become a battle to get the delayed flight compensation and the expenses back out of AA. their entire CS is an omnishambles and 5 months later we are now May 14th, my flight was Jan 20th. I had sent 10 automated reminder emails (Play them at their own game) and one final email on the 4th of April saying if i don't have the response I would start legal proceedings. NADA, so I issued a Statutory Demand on the UK company and its directors via email and mail, giving them 21 days to pay and the only way to stop it is to pay or petition the high court to have it set aside, I could petition the high court to have the company wound up after the 21 days, OK you may think a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I run several a group of purpose driven businesses and, I would never treat any customer the way AA treats its EU customers, dare I say the process was designed to minimise claims with a policy of just fobbing customers off, brush them aside or just ignore them in the pretext they will just not pursue a claim or will give up. its a statutory legal obligation, no ifs or buts. I did get a call from a person in their legal department who at best was inept or plain rude, I explained is it not normal to call customers at 9.30pm GMT and she just went into this rant, how dare I threaten AA, no one makes this airline bankrupt, I just told her madam, you did that once yourselves and its obvious you haven't read the demand have you ? I wont be making AA bankrupt, it will be wound up and time for a making a without prejudice counter offer was done months ago, no I wont be giving your airline another chance to show me how wonderful you can be on other AA flight and you how amazing and no i don't want crappy miles that wont use and hung up. She then sent me an email without prejudice, not admissible in court, no admission of liability and it was AI at its worst and written to bully me, it did make me laugh. I just replied wrong legal label, cant be WP as i never agreed to have a WP discussion, the demand still stands and stop offering my crappy miles no no and no. The demand expired last Thursday, I informed the CAA it was my intention to petition the courts to wind up their UK subsidiary and reminded them of their obligation in law to start the process of revoking their AOL and RL and for good measure told Heathrow they would be in breach of their T&C to use the airports facilities its a petition was filed. Well from snails pace to lightening speed over night, I have never seen a company move so fast, 2 letters from their UK lawyers, which must have cost a lot of write the many pages of drivel and we will do this this and this to you we will seek costs and damages blah blah blah, but for one line, in light of all of this our client would like to settle for the full amount within 24 hours of withdrawing the demand and signing an NDA, I replied, no NDA, you pay me first and please for the love of god stop offering me miles why on god green earth would i want them ? no means no..they agreed. So all this cost them many thousands of dollars in legal fees, now the CAA have caught their eye, awkward questions for Heathrow and a lot of bad Karma for what, its not about the money, we are the reason they exist, but putting profits and shareholders before passengers is what will see them enter in to bankruptcy protection for a 2nd time and like the last time they only have themselves to blame
I ran into a crazy check in staff at the MIA airport, Ms. Greenway who was laughing at my long last name with her co-worker and took 45 minutes to fix an error in my ticket which caused me to miss my flight to Saint Lucia, a trip i had been planning for the last six months, and I had missed a big event that day in addition to the loss of money i lost...
I ran into a crazy check in staff at the MIA airport, Ms. Greenway who was laughing at my long last name with her co-worker and took 45 minutes to fix an error in my ticket which caused me to miss my flight to Saint Lucia, a trip i had been planning for the last six months, and I had missed a big event that day in addition to the loss of money i lost for pre-pay charges for lodging and other services.
Also, when I complained about being discriminated at, i was threaten that I would not be in neither this flight nor any other flight with AA, which is an obvious retaliation case to me. I hope that AA will take this case serious and make it right and hope this won’t happen to another person with a similar last name or someone who looks like me.
Please note that a customer agent did call few days after i raised my concern but also the AA employee was not able to offer any compensation or didn't show any customer care by setting off at least half the trouble i went thought that day on May 3rd at the Miami International airport.
The employee only said, "sorry you missed the cut off check in time and sorry for being discriminated at and we cannot offer you anything else." This is a terrible traveling experience!
i have been waiting for EU261 compensation for 5 delayed bags (by more than 30 days) since January 2023. AA sends auto replies, but that is where it stops. EL called once to tell me that Central Baggage is handling this. 5 bags times Euro 1,300 is Euro 6,500. It does feel like AA is systematically trying to wear me down to just give up. I have reached out too many time via too many channel that this is one person dropping the ball.
Curious how is delay defined for the purpose of CTA APPR compensation.
For example, let's say my flights are LHR-YYZ-ORD. Flight 1, LHR-YYZ is delayed 4 hours, causing me to miss my second flight, YYZ-ORD. I get rebooked and my new second flight is on time, but overall I arrive at ORD 7 hours after my originally scheduled flight time.
So how much compensation do I get in this case? I know that 3-6 hours...
Curious how is delay defined for the purpose of CTA APPR compensation.
For example, let's say my flights are LHR-YYZ-ORD. Flight 1, LHR-YYZ is delayed 4 hours, causing me to miss my second flight, YYZ-ORD. I get rebooked and my new second flight is on time, but overall I arrive at ORD 7 hours after my originally scheduled flight time.
So how much compensation do I get in this case? I know that 3-6 hours is $400, and for 6-9 hours it's $700. But in this case, do I get compensated for the first flight delay of 4 hours, or do I get compensated for the total routing delay of 7 hours?
In addition, the example above uses two international flights, one arriving into Canada and one leaving Canada. But my overall itinerary is from the UK to the US (only transiting in Canada). Does this affect the Canadian compensation?
American Airlines Customer Relations does not meet AA’s customer service mission statement as it is structured to avoid customer interaction with AA staff, discriminates toward customers who don’t use computer technology, and by its very nature, their AI system and process is dysfunctional so to increase American Airline profits when customers give up. Avoid American Airlines!
I experienced similar behavor with AAL after having to change my return flight due to Covid in Dec 22 - Jan 2023. First, I asked for Covid procedure when household member tested positive. None provided and said no symptom go to the airport. I canceled and rebooked for after containment. I came down with Covid and needed to delay again. AAL issued two different vouchers. One to my Priority account and other as hard copy...
I experienced similar behavor with AAL after having to change my return flight due to Covid in Dec 22 - Jan 2023. First, I asked for Covid procedure when household member tested positive. None provided and said no symptom go to the airport. I canceled and rebooked for after containment. I came down with Covid and needed to delay again. AAL issued two different vouchers. One to my Priority account and other as hard copy to my US address. My flights had been paid for in Colombian Pasos from and return to Colombia. Customer Service treated me the same as you are covering with 5 emails sorry for inconvenience but no satisfaction. No longer interested with people who have so little regard for the reason they are in business to begin with.
Since we’re on an AA thread, has anybody ever (in the last 18 months) got two round trips for 50K miles as they offer on every flight?
American Airlines caused my husband and I to arrive a day late for our wedding last August (2022) and we never asked for compensation because we knew they'd say no and it would only have prolonged our stress. Also, we did some research but gave up after finding no clear information as to our rights in the matter. What happened was that our flight from Mexico, where we live, to the U.S., where we were...
American Airlines caused my husband and I to arrive a day late for our wedding last August (2022) and we never asked for compensation because we knew they'd say no and it would only have prolonged our stress. Also, we did some research but gave up after finding no clear information as to our rights in the matter. What happened was that our flight from Mexico, where we live, to the U.S., where we were to get married, was canceled within just a few hours of the time our shuttle was to pick us up for the ride to the airport, so maybe 6 hours prior to flight time. They rescheduled us for the same flight the next morning—at the same hour the wedding was to begin! Of course that meant we had to make several phone calls to reschedule everything. Thank goodness we were able to cancel our hotel for that night, but we still ended up paying for our guests' hotel rooms, which we could have avoided if they'd all been able to arrive the same day we did. And we were unable to cancel the catered dinner that night, so everyone else enjoyed it without us. The problem was, we were already packed, the dogs were already at the kennel (an expense we'd planned on, but would've saved one night's boarding fees if we'd known we were leaving a day later), and we both were missing work (we are musicians who make a living with gigs at night, and we'd already arranged subs for the entire two-week trip including that night). So we lost out on that income. By the time we arrived at our destination the next day, we were exhausted and not looking or feeling our best. The only reason we went to the U.S. to get married instead of inviting family and friends to come to Mexico is because my mother is in memory care and she can't travel—so we scheduled the ceremony for the one hour a day when we can be sure she is up and about, and is likely to be alert and not yell something inappropriate in the middle of the ceremony, which we wanted to record. As it is, she couldn't participate because the wedding ended up being in the evening, on the patio of an Airbnb, in another town. So we re-created the important parts for her later, but still, it was sad for me that she couldn't be part of my wedding because American Airlines bumped us and wouldn't relent no matter who I spoke to on the phone. We thought about going to the airport anyway and spending the day/night at a hotel so we'd be right there to fly out the next morning, but our budget was already so tight and we had no hope that this particular airline would reimburse us. American has become our least favorite. What do you think ... should we have pursued compensation for our time, distress, lost income and added expenses? Is there any hope of getting some money back? It sure would help. Even miles would help, since it will now take us at least a year or two to save up for any future travel, and if they gave us enough miles for two round-trip first-class tickets (that's what we purchased for the wedding trip), we'd take them.
AA uses automation to respond to the majority of customer complaints. It debuted last year. In customer relations we've been asking over and over and over for them to shut it down. The company's response is "it's working." In other words, they don't have to hire anyone new or pay us overtime because AI does the work for us. In the meantime cr morale is in the toilet.
@ KT -- Fascinating! Any chance you'd be willing to talk to me (anonymously) about this? If so, please send me an email at [email protected].
Yes they did the same to me....I went thru Airhelp. Happen to complain to AA which they point 10k points in which negated the situation. I didn't ask for the points. THey didn't have pilots. Have sent two letters to customer relations. No answer. Shame on them
Same thing happened to me. We got stranded in CLT coming back from Canada when our flight canceled due to crew availability. I emailed them saying I was due compensation per the Canadian regulations. They gave me a GENEROUS $50 flight credit!
I told them that was unacceptable and after going back and forth, they agreed to give us the $3,000+ we were due. But of course getting them to actual mail it is another...
Same thing happened to me. We got stranded in CLT coming back from Canada when our flight canceled due to crew availability. I emailed them saying I was due compensation per the Canadian regulations. They gave me a GENEROUS $50 flight credit!
I told them that was unacceptable and after going back and forth, they agreed to give us the $3,000+ we were due. But of course getting them to actual mail it is another thing.
It's unacceptable. They'll clearly do whatever they can to skirt the laws.
Not surprised. They do the same with their employees pay claims.
Most of this is handled by (bad) AI. There's no human being involved and the airlines want it that way. Everyone wants low fares which means airlines are going to find ways to "cut costs." Personally, I'd take the miles and be done with it. Not worth it.
I had a similar experience with Delta, flying from AMS-DEN. Originally booked a routing through DTW, but due to a DL schedule change a couple of months before, I was instead sent via an earlier flight through MSP. AMS-MSP was delayed 4 hours due to a mechanical issue, resulting in 4+ hour delay into DEN.
I emailed asking for EU 261 compensation and got a similar canned response and 10,000 SkyPesos. The person responding...
I had a similar experience with Delta, flying from AMS-DEN. Originally booked a routing through DTW, but due to a DL schedule change a couple of months before, I was instead sent via an earlier flight through MSP. AMS-MSP was delayed 4 hours due to a mechanical issue, resulting in 4+ hour delay into DEN.
I emailed asking for EU 261 compensation and got a similar canned response and 10,000 SkyPesos. The person responding referred to my original routing via DTW and said that I arrived with a less than 4 hours delay (WTF?) so I wouldn't be receiving any compensation. I sent a similar response as Ford, thanking them for the pesos, but reminding them that I was owed EUR 600 and correcting them regarding my routing. Thankfully in their first response they actually acknowledged that the money was due if a delay was greater than 4 hours, but they denied it on the basis of reading my routing wrong in the reservation. The second time they responded right away that I was correct and I did receive the EUR 600 about 2 months after the flight.
Unfortunately the Douglas Parker era turned American into America West minus
Horrible unforgivable customer relationship management.
Even dishonesty and white lies to get you off the phone.
At the time the e stickers for upgrades were discontinued they essentially closed Advantage customer service and had overseas agents that were not empowered to take care of customers except say no.We all know some folks got to receive some form of compensation for purchased...
Unfortunately the Douglas Parker era turned American into America West minus
Horrible unforgivable customer relationship management.
Even dishonesty and white lies to get you off the phone.
At the time the e stickers for upgrades were discontinued they essentially closed Advantage customer service and had overseas agents that were not empowered to take care of customers except say no.We all know some folks got to receive some form of compensation for purchased upgrades.
Its a giant cat and mouse game now.The only way to get assistance is have the private number to Americans corporate team.
I would have figured Ben with all your blogger/Corporate contacts you would have such access but assume you may be trying to go through the regular CS channels.
They have the ability to fix anything they want.Not that is a guarantee of recovery.
In the rare occasion I was told no by the public channels they generously compensated me above and beyond the way they do for some of their customers.
There was a day years ago when anyone could get reasonable assistance.
Your welcome to reach out to me as I can not post the information here or it might likely get disconnected which wouldn't be a first! Good luck!
I have no experience of dealing with Canadian regulations, but as far as EU 261 goes, If you send a letter in which you have done your homework and if you close all the avenues for them to beat about the bush (like Ford seems to have done in his SECOND reply. they immediately respond positively. They feel and know when a letter is sent by a documented passenger who knows what he's talking about.
...I have no experience of dealing with Canadian regulations, but as far as EU 261 goes, If you send a letter in which you have done your homework and if you close all the avenues for them to beat about the bush (like Ford seems to have done in his SECOND reply. they immediately respond positively. They feel and know when a letter is sent by a documented passenger who knows what he's talking about.
My most recent experience was at Manchester when a 767 broke down ("No, it's not the weather, here is a photo of your guys working one one engine way after the scheduled departure time...").
They immediately refunded without a whimper my hotel room, food, sundry expenses, PLUS the EC261 compensation. After the same plane broke down again on the 2nd day and they rerouted me via London (BA/AA), they added generous miles for the 2nd delay.
This being said, this was 5-6 years ago and, as for the EXPlat call center, things may have deteriorated.
Also, from the CTA's decision last year in Lareau v. Westjet (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/89-c-a-2022):
"[10] In general, carriers have control over staffing issues. For example, they control how many employees they hire, how far in advance their employees are hired and trained, where employees are dispatched, the frequency of their employees’ work assignments and at which hubs employees are located.
[11] In light of this, the threshold for establishing that a crew shortage was not within the...
Also, from the CTA's decision last year in Lareau v. Westjet (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/89-c-a-2022):
"[10] In general, carriers have control over staffing issues. For example, they control how many employees they hire, how far in advance their employees are hired and trained, where employees are dispatched, the frequency of their employees’ work assignments and at which hubs employees are located.
[11] In light of this, the threshold for establishing that a crew shortage was not within the carrier’s control within the meaning of section 12 of the APPR is high. The carrier must demonstrate that it could not have reasonably prevented the disruption despite proper planning. This includes not only contingency planning, but also advance planning to ensure that the carrier has enough staff available to operate the services it offers for sale, considering that various events can affect a carrier’s day-to-day operations.
[12] The Agency recognizes that an aircraft cannot be operated without the required number of crew members on board. Nonetheless, if a crew shortage is due to the actions or inactions of the carrier, the disruption will be considered within the carrier’s control for the purposes of the APPR. Indeed, a disruption caused by a crew shortage should not be considered “required for safety purposes” when it is the carrier who caused the safety issue as a result of its own actions.
[13] In this case, the only relevant evidence provided by WestJet are notes from its operational control centre indicating that staff from the crew scheduling department attempted to secure an alternate First Officer without success. The evidence does not establish why the efforts to find a replacement First Officer were not successful. Further, WestJet did not indicate whether it explored the possibility of bringing in a replacement First Officer to Regina to operate the flight so that it could operate even if delayed, nor did it submit evidence regarding contingency plans it had in place to ensure that other First Officers were available in the event of a crew shortage. The evidence filed by WestJet does not sufficiently establish that the cancellation resulting from the crew shortage was unavoidable despite proper planning, nor does it demonstrate that the cancellation was not the result of its own actions or inactions.
[14] The Agency, therefore, finds that the cancellation of Mr. Lareau’s flight was within WestJet’s control. Pursuant to paragraph 12(3)(d) and subparagraph 19(1)(a)(iii) of the APPR and Rule 95(C) of the Tariff, Mr. Lareau is entitled to compensation for inconvenience in the amount of CAD 1,000."
The CTA published a decision last year (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/107-c-a-2022) that the operating carrier "has the responsibility to provide evidence to support its categorization of a disruption" specific to the flights at issue and "crew shortage may still be found to be within the carrier’s control depending on whether the carrier has prepared and implemented reasonable contingency plans for replacing its crew."
Notably: "The Agency also recently found in Lareau v WestJet that the threshold for establishing...
The CTA published a decision last year (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/107-c-a-2022) that the operating carrier "has the responsibility to provide evidence to support its categorization of a disruption" specific to the flights at issue and "crew shortage may still be found to be within the carrier’s control depending on whether the carrier has prepared and implemented reasonable contingency plans for replacing its crew."
Notably: "The Agency also recently found in Lareau v WestJet that the threshold for establishing that a crew shortage is not within the carrier’s control is high, given that air carriers generally have control over staffing issues, such as hiring, dispatching and training. The Agency indicated that carriers must demonstrate that they could not have reasonably prevented the disruption despite proper planning, and that they must provide evidence showing that the crew shortage was not the result of their own actions or inactions."
I'd be surprised if AA can make out the necessary showing in this case to avoid paying compensation.
I was able to secure compensation from notoriously recalcitrant AC when a lack of AC crew to operate a flight from YUL to the U.S. resulted in a forced overnight at YUL.
My recent experiences with A/A lead me to believe that the carrier is not really in the transportation business and could care less about crews or clients.
Not sure why Ben continues to present our Canadian Passenger rights as being robust. It's not, there's a very vague and broad "out" for airlines: as long as it's a "safety issue" they are exempted. What's a safety issue? There's no specific criteria. If a single seat belt doesn't work on a half full flight, the airline could claim "safety issue", but then again the airline doesn't even owe you an explanation as to specifically...
Not sure why Ben continues to present our Canadian Passenger rights as being robust. It's not, there's a very vague and broad "out" for airlines: as long as it's a "safety issue" they are exempted. What's a safety issue? There's no specific criteria. If a single seat belt doesn't work on a half full flight, the airline could claim "safety issue", but then again the airline doesn't even owe you an explanation as to specifically what the issue was.
Bill C-47 (passed last month) takes away that "safety issue" defence and puts the burden of proof on the airlines now, but that's not in force yet, so our laws in Canada are hardly "robust".
File a complaint with the Canadian Transportation Agency and the FAA since your flights involved both countries. File a complaint with the FTC for unfair trade practices. Dispute the charges with your credit card. Finally, Sue AA for each ticket documenting the value of lost wages for the time involved, punitive damaged and your attorney fees. Small claims does not let you recover for time or punitive damages. They settled for $45,000. I did all...
File a complaint with the Canadian Transportation Agency and the FAA since your flights involved both countries. File a complaint with the FTC for unfair trade practices. Dispute the charges with your credit card. Finally, Sue AA for each ticket documenting the value of lost wages for the time involved, punitive damaged and your attorney fees. Small claims does not let you recover for time or punitive damages. They settled for $45,000. I did all of these steps except contact Canadian authorities since my flights were domestic.
Meanwhile over in Europe…we filed a claim for compensation with Lufthansa and received a response within 3 HOURS saying that 600euros compensation would be paid within 10 days.
That said, we might have been too optimistic. It’s been almost 2 months and Lufthansa has yet to pay out our “approved” claim.
AA likely knows there’s a 2 year backlog of complaints at the CTA. They’re counting on you forgetting/giving up. The passenger protection regulations in Canada have no teeth. The Feds have been saying they’re going to fix the problem and make the airlines more accountable. Believe it when I see it.
Lol. American. There's your first mistake.
American Airlines think they are beyond the letter of the law written. Americans C.E.O. needs to go away. Americans service is lack luster at best. People need to go and fly competitors, show American their not kings in the air.
Ford will not receive compensation. If pushed, AA will claim the disruption was required for "safety" so no compensation is due. CTA will agree with AA. Canadian rules are nothing like EU. No compensation is ever actually paid under Canadian rules.
I think You might have Googled about this before writing Ben/Ford. There are like 50k plus claims in Canada just like Y'alls being ignored and waiting to be answered. Going to take a while to get that 2000 CAD, if ever!
In good fun, you should have had "Ford" write the article. I mean, the story is "Ford's". Just don't lose any sleep over it please. :-)
This goes beyond AA and is only going to get worse as more companies become obsessed with using AI to cut costs. The responses from Aa customer service seem identical to those from Lyft, DoorDash, etc who have outsourced all that work to bots. You can ask pointed questions and you’ll get the same generic response each time. At least AA still has humans to escalate to; Lyft support just tells you to pound sand
Sometimes I recover and sometimes I don’t on these claims. One thing I never do is to turn the recovery process into a second job. You’re not going to find me in Small Claims Court pursuing an airline for hotel and meal compensation. Even if I did get a judgment, it can be another matter to collect on that judgment.
I often read or hear of people getting unbelievably generous compensation for these delays...
Sometimes I recover and sometimes I don’t on these claims. One thing I never do is to turn the recovery process into a second job. You’re not going to find me in Small Claims Court pursuing an airline for hotel and meal compensation. Even if I did get a judgment, it can be another matter to collect on that judgment.
I often read or hear of people getting unbelievably generous compensation for these delays and I have to wonder if it is BS because frankly, when I have recovered in the past, the payout is modest and never covers my losses or time.
In my experience, AA's first response or 2 is not great. However, when I threaten to complain to the FAA or other regulatory body, that gets noticed and I've gotten wonderful connections with supervisors who make it right. Granted, I haven't had to complain much but in the 2 times or so I needed to, they took care of me eventually and were quite nice about it.
Don't threaten. Do it. I filed an electronic complaint against Alaska, a formal letter certified mail and a DOT complaint.
I got a full refund and miles and still I hate Alaska Airlines since. Christmas 2021 sucked so bad.
We had a flight ( connection flight to our final destination) on air Canada cancel and instead of paying us the compensation they sent us a nice note. We had to drive 13 he's home the next day. Even though it was an obvious plan issue as they kept waiting till after the airport closed and locked many of us in the building when they didn't have a plane available. We had to find security...
We had a flight ( connection flight to our final destination) on air Canada cancel and instead of paying us the compensation they sent us a nice note. We had to drive 13 he's home the next day. Even though it was an obvious plan issue as they kept waiting till after the airport closed and locked many of us in the building when they didn't have a plane available. We had to find security to let us out. They then claimed it was a weather issue. Othe airlines at same time were getting flights in at the time though. We got nothing after calling them multiple times.
Darlings, try a little warmth and humor in your complaints. If there's a human being reading it I promise you if you make them smile they will be more likely to do as you ask. You'll stand out amongst the hundreds of miserable, angry, abusive people. They will show your email to all their fellow workers they will all laugh and will most likely approve your request. Good luck flying the friendly skies!
Sweetums, you’re ridiculous.
In the meantime, take a deep breath, calm down, and never comment again.
Buff off, she's right.
I agree, and ALWAYS try to do this, even if it’s creating a fictional story for laughs that doesn’t change the facts. E.g., the agony of having to spend more time with my mother-in-law while waiting for a delayed flight, being stuck eating repulsive food near the airport, wondering if the spider in the cabin was having a better meal than I was, etc.
Step 1. Send in a claim to AA. When ignored
Step 2. DOT complaint
Step 3. Small Claims Court
Federal law governs airlines but AA has to send someone to court to assert that. If they don’t show, you win. They always settle before them.
Small Claims cost $60 to file. You are guaranteed a response, usually never have to go to court except to do the filing.
The same thing happened to us on AA flight from Barcelona to Miami. Was cancelled due to issue with the plane but AA wanted to say the "government" cancelled the flight. I too got the same standard emails and some AA miles but per EU regulations I was due $$$. I only finally won after filing a complaint thru the Spanish government. So I suspect you will need to file a complaint thru the Canadian...
The same thing happened to us on AA flight from Barcelona to Miami. Was cancelled due to issue with the plane but AA wanted to say the "government" cancelled the flight. I too got the same standard emails and some AA miles but per EU regulations I was due $$$. I only finally won after filing a complaint thru the Spanish government. So I suspect you will need to file a complaint thru the Canadian Transportation Authority but beware; they have a huge backlog! I have a complaint filed with them due to an Air Canada cancelled international flight which I filed 10/2022. I am still 16,000+ in line to have my complaint reviewed.
American canceled a flight I was to take but offered a credit voucher. I tried to redeem the credit a few months ago, they informed me that the voucher had expired. I was never told of an expiration date. I informed them I will never fly American airlines again and immediately canceled my American airlines credit card. I realize I am only one customer and that they don't care but look at Budlight.
To all whiny entitled customers on this forum, nobody controls the weather
Nobody
Controls
The weather
Learn to take that with a grain of salt, maybe this flight wasnt cancelled from weather but a lot of you people cant read the rules before buying a fare and then act shocked when your hotel isnt getting paid for.
The left says if we pay enough in taxes we can control the climate. Which is it?
You seem dumb enough to post this comment yet smart enough to know the difference between climate and weather.
The point is airlines can't claim weather every time there's weather somewhere in the world.. when 1. Other flights are getting out. 2. Other airlines are landing at the airport if your destination
Im a UK citizen.
We had flights from Orlando to miami to Heathrow.
Our first flight was delayed so we missed our flight home
We then spent 4 days in miami airport trying to get home.
American issued us accommodation but not travel.
They issued us vouchers for food but not enough and some didn't work.
We then had to make our way to a different airport, on our...
Im a UK citizen.
We had flights from Orlando to miami to Heathrow.
Our first flight was delayed so we missed our flight home
We then spent 4 days in miami airport trying to get home.
American issued us accommodation but not travel.
They issued us vouchers for food but not enough and some didn't work.
We then had to make our way to a different airport, on our own accord, to flights that were delayed yet again, in which I had to change flights twice.
Not to mention 2 lost suitcases.
This was April and I only received a full response acknowledging compensation at the end of june
They are now trying to duck out of paying us what we are owed by giving us a much much lower amount.
They did try and pay me off with miles until I declined
I had issues getting hotels compensated from AA. They refused to book me in a hotel even though they had a mechanical cancelation. As such I booked a hotel myself at great expense. At first, they would only reimburse $100. After more haggling, they eventually reimbursed the full amount and acknowledged their error. This took about a month and several emails.
My wife used miles to fly AA to London in first class and her seat had no recline. When she complained they gave her 25000 miles. Not the best way to treat an executive platinum.
I also know of people who were downgraded from business to premium economy and received the same form email
Not a click bait at all! I had a recent issues it took close to 5 months to get some sort of resolution. Still have not received what is actually due. I followed up 7 times, they are the bottom of the bottom when come to customer care right now. I was told by a rep “that department is underwater right now”.
Oh yes!!! American is the worse and we do everything possible to try not to fly with them!
Our situation is different.
There was a problem with our plane & we had to board another plane. We had upgraded our seats and did not get upgraded seats on the replaced flight.
I had a very rude attendant in Orlando FL and an agent gave us $50 in rewards. I was transferred for...
Oh yes!!! American is the worse and we do everything possible to try not to fly with them!
Our situation is different.
There was a problem with our plane & we had to board another plane. We had upgraded our seats and did not get upgraded seats on the replaced flight.
I had a very rude attendant in Orlando FL and an agent gave us $50 in rewards. I was transferred for the seat situation and was told forget it!!! You are getting nothing more! Your lucky you got that!
I so hate this airlines and cringe if we have to fly with them.
I never got my upgrade and did not get refunded for ut.
I had a flight from Haneda to Los Angeles cancelled. They asked me to submit my receipts up to 25000 yen for overnight expenses...I asked them how to submit it and they said to email the customer care team, did that...they've proceeded to ignore me for 3 months. Worst airline ever
Ben: The Canadian compensation program might sound good but in practice it has been a disaster and completely ineffective, so much so that with a backlog of unresolved complaints to the Agency of over 52,000 the The Federal Government last month passed amendments to the Canadian Transportation Act.
It has now published a “Consultation Paper” seeking input (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publication/consultation-paper-proposed-changes-clarify-simplify-and-strengthen-air-passenger) by August 10, 2023. The amendments "eliminated the three flight disruption categories and require airlines to provide...
Ben: The Canadian compensation program might sound good but in practice it has been a disaster and completely ineffective, so much so that with a backlog of unresolved complaints to the Agency of over 52,000 the The Federal Government last month passed amendments to the Canadian Transportation Act.
It has now published a “Consultation Paper” seeking input (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publication/consultation-paper-proposed-changes-clarify-simplify-and-strengthen-air-passenger) by August 10, 2023. The amendments "eliminated the three flight disruption categories and require airlines to provide compensation for inconvenience to passengers when there is a flight disruption, unless there are exceptional circumstances. It also puts the burden on airlines to prove the situation is an exceptional circumstance.
The CTA must amend the APPR to identify these exceptional circumstances” is seeking currently input from interested parties.
The paper includes proposed categories of “Exceptional Circumstances” (the typical weather, security, medical emergencies, NOTAMs, etc etc) but specifically excludes crew unavailability, staff shortages, technical problems inherent in normal airline operations, inaction or failure by contractors. Interestingly, the proposed list seems to eliminate Accidents involving the aircraft, Mechanical malfunctions, Decisions based on Safety Management Systems, and Safety decisions by pilots, which implies that it is the intention that the airline be responsible for all or any mechanical failures by having backup aircraft, standby crew and maintenance staff available to quickly remedy any safety related delays.
Obviously the airlines and their lobbyists will fight these proposals and until they come into effect the current practice of deny, deny, deny will continue, which is where Ford, along with thousands of Canadians find themselves.
I have used many EU low cost carriers and my experience is that flights simply do largely operate on time. Instead of EU regulations resulting in bankrupt airlines and overly expensive tickets, the reverse seems to have occurred. Management and passengers know the consequences of failure and although there are still cases of compensation disputes a new industry seems to have emerged to deal effectively with that.
In the mid 1980's, AA destroyed a bag of my close relative so I boycotted AA for the next 35 years. I flew well over 1 million miles in that period, sometimes daily. AA offered to pay $20, not enough for a bag
I’m dealing with the same thing right now. Was stuck two extra days in Boston because the flight attendant JAMMED HER HAND IN THE DOOR and the fire department and emt had to come out on the tarmac and help. Cancelled our flight and couldn’t rebook us until the day after the next day. I submitted a complaint and AA gave me only (not even my wife also) 2500 miles. I’ve gone back and forth...
I’m dealing with the same thing right now. Was stuck two extra days in Boston because the flight attendant JAMMED HER HAND IN THE DOOR and the fire department and emt had to come out on the tarmac and help. Cancelled our flight and couldn’t rebook us until the day after the next day. I submitted a complaint and AA gave me only (not even my wife also) 2500 miles. I’ve gone back and forth with them for a few emails and now they are just completely ignoring me. I was given 12500 for a overnight delay 5 years ago so I don’t understand this new we don’t give a blank attitude to customer relations
The Canadian APR regulation doesn’t automatically entitle passengers to compensation for disruption within the airline’s control, unlike EC261, if it’s “ unforeseen. Eg Miami Toronto arrives on time and the return has a 4 hour delay for mechanical reasons. They can argue the inbound arrived ok and the delay on the return was unforeseen.
They have 30 days and you’re posting this now? Total clickbait.
I had read about 8 months ago American was going to use A
I. to respond to complaints
Who knows if you even got a human response .
The same happened to me and their standard response is triggered by a computer with duplicate answers that don't answer specific questions since most "live" charts are not live but computer driven in response to complaints.
AA is simply acting exactly how Air Canada operates. AC wouldn't even be solvent if it paid the required compensation under Canadian laws.
Given that you hear similar stories about a number of EU airlines, it just proves that you can't legislate good business practices or good customer service. Under strict laws, companies will do the bare minimum and drag out the process as long as possible
I've gotten that exact same email response from AA, but in a different scenario, domestic US flight cancelation (last month) within AA's control.
American Airlines will straight up low to your face about a delay! We missed our connecting flight because we had to taxi back to a terminal to readjust luggage weight and this caused us to be late and miss our connecting flight. But this is somehow weather related?? They will say or do anything to get out of paying. Will never fly with them again!
Ben,
I recieved a similar response from customer service on July 3rd. I wrote them to seek compensation for a broken business class seat on an overnight CLT-LHR flight. The email from American Airlines did not even reference the issue and the email sounded like an automatic response. I replied back and finally got a response. After several back and forth emails, the best they could offer was 10K miles, or 5K miles with...
Ben,
I recieved a similar response from customer service on July 3rd. I wrote them to seek compensation for a broken business class seat on an overnight CLT-LHR flight. The email from American Airlines did not even reference the issue and the email sounded like an automatic response. I replied back and finally got a response. After several back and forth emails, the best they could offer was 10K miles, or 5K miles with $100 trip credit. I took the 10K miles. I wasn't too upset because I was able to get the flight for 57.5K miles due to a canceled british airways flight that was originally booked. Still, 10K miles is kind of a joke when you expect to be able to sleep. The ground crew was trying to fix the seat before I boarded, so they asked me to wait to board. When they told be to board, I figured the issue was fixed, only to find it wasn't fixed by the pilot who came back to apoligize. You would think the crew or someone would be able to give some sort of compensation on the spot for issues like this, but instead I had to fight for 10K miles afterwards.
The first response:
"Thank you for contacting American Airlines. We strive to put our customers at the center of everything we do. The details you provided highlight the importance of that focus, and we are sorry to hear things did not go as planned.
Please know that we strive to learn from every experience, so we appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback with us. Your input will be shared with our team as we continue towards our goal of providing a world class experience.
Thank you again for reaching out to share your experience with us. We hope to better deliver on our high standard of excellence next time we have the opportunity to welcome you aboard."
This seems pretty weak on AA's part. The crew should have been more proactive in engaging customer service on your behalf. A few years ago I had a flight from OGG to LAX in F and during boarding noticed my seatback screen wasn't functioning (anyone remember those??). The FA was very apologetic and attempted to reset it multiple times and was unsuccessful. I assure you I did not this any kind of an issue as...
This seems pretty weak on AA's part. The crew should have been more proactive in engaging customer service on your behalf. A few years ago I had a flight from OGG to LAX in F and during boarding noticed my seatback screen wasn't functioning (anyone remember those??). The FA was very apologetic and attempted to reset it multiple times and was unsuccessful. I assure you I did not this any kind of an issue as it wasn't a huge deal because I could just stream to my tablet. During the flight she came by to let me know she had logged a customer service record on my behalf and I was credited 10,000 miles for basically the smallest of inconveniences without having to lift a finger.
AA removed the ability for crews to credit miles directly to passengers. You HAVE to go to customer service, there is literally nothing the crew can do.
I suspect Hanlon's Razor applies here: "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by stupidity". Should Ford have explained that Canada is an independent country?
Maybe wait until they don’t pay up on July 26 to start throwing shade instead of going all click baity?
It would be one thing if AA just had not responded yet. But they DID respond, completely ignoring the writer’s pointed request. I follow AA complaints on Twitter and AA’s response is the exact form letter they use for all complaints. It’s not click bait. It’s the truth.
Well not only did you click on this, you took the time to read it AND make a comment about it. So you are being a bit hypocritical. If it was truly click bait you would have read the first few sentences, realized this is not the post for you, and moved on with your day. So your comment is more of a "look at me" type response.
Let’s use common sense. If you wait until July 26, then pursue compensation more aggressively, will they pay interest (in addition to the already owed amount) starting July 26? Haha
Seems like you have answered your own question. American hopes that most passengers will accept the paltry miles offered and go away, either because they are ignorant or because American is signaling that it's going to take a lot of effort to get a better resolution. From an accounting point of view that knows how to value the direct dollar cost and ignores reputational damage, they are probably right. You are the exception that knows...
Seems like you have answered your own question. American hopes that most passengers will accept the paltry miles offered and go away, either because they are ignorant or because American is signaling that it's going to take a lot of effort to get a better resolution. From an accounting point of view that knows how to value the direct dollar cost and ignores reputational damage, they are probably right. You are the exception that knows your rights and is determined to follow through. Most take the easy path.
I’m curious what the cost of getting caught doing this is. Canadian fines/penalties tend to be much harsher on corporations than in the states (at least in my anecdotal, unqualified experience). Seems like a big risk to play with fire like this.
I made a claim for compensation from AA for a delayed Domestic flight as part of a long haul trip from Europe booked with Finnair and they paid up with 30 days of the claim. I was very impressed.