My goodness, this keeps turning into a bigger and bigger issue.
Over the weekend Delta announced that they would no longer offer discounted fares through their group travel program for those attending NRA conferences, and that they’re requesting that the NRA remove Delta’s information from their website. This followed pressure from a lot of anti-gun consumers urging all companies to cut ties with the NRA — Delta certainly wasn’t the only company to give in.
Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.
— Delta (@Delta) February 24, 2018
Then yesterday morning Delta issued a statement regarding their stance on the NRA, which did damage on both sides, in my opinion. I feel like this was a situation where they should have just been quiet. Here’s what they said:
Delta is reaching out to the National Rifle Association to let it know that the airline will be ending its contract for discounted fares for travel to the association’s annual meeting through Delta’s group travel program. The company will request that the NRA remove Delta’s information from its meeting website.
Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.
This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.
They claim they have a neutral stance, they support the 2nd Amendment, and they’re cutting ties with any organization that is viewed as controversial. That doesn’t do much to make either side feel better, in my opinion.
Well, now Delta is facing even further backlash over the issue, and they may lose a lucrative tax break over withdrawing discounts for NRA members. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution notes that the Georgia Senate blocked a tax bill today that would have benefited Delta:
Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle said he would not support tax legislation that helped the airline “unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with the NRA.” He echoed a growing number of conservatives who opposed the measure over the weekend.
That move forced Gov. Nathan Deal and other supporters of the $50 million jet fuel sales tax exemption to shift to the defensive, and prompted a growing number of Republicans to try to strip the provision out of a broader tax-cut bill that has already passed the state House.
I suspect that this is more political posturing than anything, and that this won’t actually impact Delta’s tax break in the end. On some level I find it absurd that a private company pulling a discount for members of a private organization could have these kinds of repercussions. At the same time, Delta only looks out for Delta’s best interests, so I can’t say that I feel too bad for them if their neutral stance lands them in this situation.
What do you guys think — is it reasonable for the government to punish an airline for withdrawing a discount for another private organization?
I would like to thank Robert Hanson for his follow up on ( too many guns create a wild west future.) Your facts are wright on the mark. I honestly believe owning a gun and especially when conceal carrying it is a conscious reflex that you don't want any accidents or do anything stupid to cause a disturbance. it kind of reminds as if I am being watched by a camera at a store, It...
I would like to thank Robert Hanson for his follow up on ( too many guns create a wild west future.) Your facts are wright on the mark. I honestly believe owning a gun and especially when conceal carrying it is a conscious reflex that you don't want any accidents or do anything stupid to cause a disturbance. it kind of reminds as if I am being watched by a camera at a store, It makes me behave just a little better, My point is that good people are very safe . Look at N.R.A.EVENTS . Thousands of people attend and there are never any shootings there, G I WONDER WHY. This also holds true to the malisia in Switzerland, It would be suicidal to start shooting at a group meeting. Before I leave I would like to mention the town of KENNESAW ,GEORGIA, It is mandatory to keep a gun in your house for protection and the crime rate from gun violence has been almost 0 for ( two decades). Responsible gun owners get respect .Thank you,Mark.
Mark's remark at
March 4, 2018 at 11:00 pm
Said it all. Totally agreed! Gun safety is agreed by all, but please do not interject political views into the discussion, as many others did.
Hi Dana, I am fortunate to live in a relatively safe state where you seldom hear of gun violence. deaths from drunk drivers are common news. I come from a lengthy background of family owned gunmakers, gunsmiths who were very professional in there skills, mostly sporting guns so I have a deep respect for guns and gun ownership. The idea of smart guns has-been around for awhile just nothing of this magnitude where it won't...
Hi Dana, I am fortunate to live in a relatively safe state where you seldom hear of gun violence. deaths from drunk drivers are common news. I come from a lengthy background of family owned gunmakers, gunsmiths who were very professional in there skills, mostly sporting guns so I have a deep respect for guns and gun ownership. The idea of smart guns has-been around for awhile just nothing of this magnitude where it won't fire in certain zones, I thought this might be a place for the kids to focus some of there energy seeing where nothing else works and criminals don't obey gun laws, Electronics are killing our heritage and creating a younger generation like nothing I have ever seen , Maybe electronics can save lives too. You are also correct about religion being hijacked , It is just a excuse to commit murder nothing more. We just had a 10 year old girl get beat to death by her parents and no guns were used . The parents weapon of choice were straps and clubs . This is another example of a different system failing a child. So sad. We need to elect people who are smart enough to fix our failing systems and not focus on objects that people have becouse it will never stop just like alcohol and drug abuse. Find the mentally ill and take them off the street. Be safe and if you ever decide to conceal carry get some additional training after the conceal carry coarse, It can make all the difference. Thanks and I hope I have been of some help, Mark.
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@ Mark
I read your response several times. It is horrific what happened to your brother and your family. And that there was purposeful interference by the state patrol adds another dimension of frustration and pain. I am very sorry.
Other than Twitter, I have never, ever continued a commentary online. I don't know why I chose to reply to you, but I am glad that we have exchanged views on the NRA, gun safety,...
@ Mark
I read your response several times. It is horrific what happened to your brother and your family. And that there was purposeful interference by the state patrol adds another dimension of frustration and pain. I am very sorry.
Other than Twitter, I have never, ever continued a commentary online. I don't know why I chose to reply to you, but I am glad that we have exchanged views on the NRA, gun safety, etc. Your familiarity with guns and those that carry, and the point that 95% of people would never use a gun unless it was a life or death situation, seems believable. (Although I don't know if you found that statistic somewhere or it's just your opinion. I hope it is higher than 95%) Many people I know have guns for either hunting or because of the work they do, or they are women who feel safer having a gun in the glove box. I don't fault any of them. Your commentary on religion and war is correct, but I would add that often religion is hijacked and used as an excuse for fighting and killing. If people didn't fight about religion, imagine what the Middle East would be like, along with the never-ending war in Afghanistan (the Taliban being an example of hijacking a religion.)
Is your suggestion of a device that would limit the use of an assault rifle in certain areas something you have heard mentioned or your own idea? I have never heard it suggested before and it seems like it could work going forward, but it would require that all those who own such guns now would have to voluntarily modify their guns.
I agree that the warning signs of the Parkland shooter were obvious, and civilians did what they could to warn the authorities, who were negligent. Perhaps instead of funding the cost of arming teachers, each community hires a task force with the sole purpose of identifying and monitoring those that hint at being a shooter, and make sure they do not have access to guns any longer. Unfortunately not all shooters show signs. Such as the Las Vegas shooter.
Your comment on the first mass shootings were muslim theorists against churches and gay night clubs had me google a list of all mass shootings since 1982. There were others before, I don't know why they started with '82. But here is a link, there's no commentary, it is just a spreadsheet of information. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/ I'm not making any comments on it either, I found it interesting that so many of these I have already forgotten about. Sad.
I won't be commenting on this thread anymore. It takes alot of time! I hope you never have to use your gun except for sport. Take care.
Hi Dana, sorry to hear of your tragedy. My brother died in 74 at the hands of two cars racing on a hill with two yellow lines and my brother was hit head on by the guy in the no passing lane, they were all drinking in the cars but the driver of the car had a farther who was a state trooper and was friends with the police on the seen. no sobriety test...
Hi Dana, sorry to hear of your tragedy. My brother died in 74 at the hands of two cars racing on a hill with two yellow lines and my brother was hit head on by the guy in the no passing lane, they were all drinking in the cars but the driver of the car had a farther who was a state trooper and was friends with the police on the seen. no sobriety test were given and the driver only got reckless homicide and had to pay my parents 10 grand, just enough to bury my bro. a couple years later they passed a new law that would have made it manslaughter so the driver got of easy. The drivers of both cars died several years later , the one that killed my bro died from heroin and the other decapitated himself behind the wheel when he hit a tree going about 100, They were both drunks and losers. Sadly my bro left no one behind, he was almost married when he was killed. Now, I don't know where your from but I live in a mostly rural area and everyone around here has tons of guns and most of them carry and you never hear of someone killing another because there having a bad day or a tiff. Don't forget the facts that the first mass shootings were by muslim theorist against churches and gay night clubs On top of that our kids are playing violent video games and getting brainwashed by fake news, Violent riots being started on purpose by socialist party lend a hand to the confusion. Also i think you would find that most of the people around you are gun owners and its not the wild west becouse 95 % of the population are not stupid enough to use a gun unless its a matter of life or death. Also , Almost every war ever commited was started over religion and who's is worthy of god and whats not and I know j.c walked the earth but to my knowledge no one has ever seen god in all its glory, so this means almost the whole world believes in what could be a fictional character and all the hatred could be for nothing? Who's crazy now, On a more serious note, With all the technology we have why hasn't some software engineered made a devise to go in a assault rifle that would keep it from firing in designated zones and have these zones controlled by gps like we do surveillance. I don't think the gun makers are that hard to convince if its for a good reason and it could be something both sides agree on. and why not put all this energy into holding the authoritys responsible for not stopping this from ever happening in the first place , They had the info, The N.R.A. Didn't let those kids down the state of FLORIDA did.
"Your 2nd to last sentence makes a case for everyone having a gun with them all the time. Doesn’t that seem backward, like the Wild, Wild, West? There are too many crazy people that would shoot someone because they they piss them off, or they misunderstood a comment, or they got in a tiff, or their spouse disrespected them, and on and on and on."
Strangely enough, that's not how it actually plays out though....
"Your 2nd to last sentence makes a case for everyone having a gun with them all the time. Doesn’t that seem backward, like the Wild, Wild, West? There are too many crazy people that would shoot someone because they they piss them off, or they misunderstood a comment, or they got in a tiff, or their spouse disrespected them, and on and on and on."
Strangely enough, that's not how it actually plays out though.
'Breaking news':
"Crime At University Of Kansas Down After 6 Months Of Campus Carry"
"Six months into a campus carry rule at the University of Kansas that liberals were sure would result in bloody gunfights and grueling body counts, the actual crime statistics are telling an altogether different story.
From 2016 to 2017, crimes reported on campus went not up, but down, according to a Friday university police announcement reported by the Lawrence Journal-World.
According to the KU Office of Public Safety, criminal offenses went down from 770 incidents in 2016 to 671 the following year, an overall decrease of 13 percent.
Interestingly, although there have been 14 weapons violations since 2008, the tally for 2017 was exactly zero.
Yes, you read that right — zero weapons violations at campus carry-friendly Kansas University, despite the fact that actual weapons on campus undoubtedly increased."
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So much for the narrative that more guns leads to more violence and even death. Yes, more illegal guns in the hands of criminals, with the law abiding disarmed, does lead to that. But more legal guns in the hands of the law abiding leads to a more polite community....for the obvious reason. ;)
(For those not up on the lingo, "campus carry" means students, teachers, administrators, even visitors, with concealed carry licenses, are allowed to carry concealed guns anywhere on campus.)
BTW, in Switzerland all healthy males between 18 and (IDK maybe 50?) are automatically part of he Army Reserve. As such, they are required to keep their uniform and, (gasp) a fully automatic genuine 'weapon of war", genuine assault weapon at home, so as to be ready to respond at a moments notice to a call up. I must say, I've always felt very safe when visiting Switzerland.
@ Robert Hanson -- Re: Switzerland, military-issued guns are stored in homes until the end of an individuals conscription period (roughly age 34 for non-officer positions), but since 2008 the *ammunition* is stored in a central, secured, location. Not individual homes.
Private individuals can still purchase guns, but like Japan are proactively required to prove mental fitness and lack of a criminal record. They then receive a permit to purchase up to three weapons from...
@ Robert Hanson -- Re: Switzerland, military-issued guns are stored in homes until the end of an individuals conscription period (roughly age 34 for non-officer positions), but since 2008 the *ammunition* is stored in a central, secured, location. Not individual homes.
Private individuals can still purchase guns, but like Japan are proactively required to prove mental fitness and lack of a criminal record. They then receive a permit to purchase up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, who reports the purchases to a central database.
Switzerland is a great example of a rational approach to gun laws, just not for the reasons people often cite.
Hi Mark,
I'm sorry about your brother. Coincidentally (and I can hardly believe how much) I too lost my 22-year old brother to a drunk driver, 42 years ago, in Orlando, Florida. Back then there was no MADD, and this woman, who killed my brother on a Sunday afternoon, never was prosecuted for manslaughter. He left behind a wife who would never have a successful marriage after theirs, an 18 month old girl, and a...
Hi Mark,
I'm sorry about your brother. Coincidentally (and I can hardly believe how much) I too lost my 22-year old brother to a drunk driver, 42 years ago, in Orlando, Florida. Back then there was no MADD, and this woman, who killed my brother on a Sunday afternoon, never was prosecuted for manslaughter. He left behind a wife who would never have a successful marriage after theirs, an 18 month old girl, and a daughter who was born a month later and who to this day has struggled in her life. I attribute all their pain (and my parents' too) to that one tragedy. I would assume the fallout of your loss was terrible as well. Losing a young person, well I can't think of much worse than that, no matter whether it is war, disease, an accident, an act of violence, or an act of heroism.
Crazy how NONE of this has anything to do with Delta!
RE an elected official solving the "hatred among us", unless it's JC himself, I don't see that happening. (Although he did give really good advice about loving your neighbor as yourself;) It's up to each of us to manage our resentments, and I know that is hard to do, but it feels so much better to love and respect others than it does to be bitter and resentful. I don't know, maybe if we stopped looking at race and religion as a barrier, and we had one common goal that was larger than life. I think about the greatest generation, they were a melting pot too, how did they manage to get through the great depression, WWII, and a country that was continually changing, growing, out in front? Perhaps because they had a very clear sense of right and wrong, just and unjust, and they had hope for future generations to have it better than they. That was back in the day when people held honor and integrity above all else.
I can tell you this, I'm scared too. I'm saddened and disappointed at where our country is now. Things are so convoluted, nothing is simple, I wish so much that America (our collective population, our government, our industries) would act responsibly, would still be motivated to do what is in the best interest of the People, so that this great country would still be the moral leader, the inspiration, the fulfilled promise of democracy. But I see such corruption, lies told daily with no consequences, bad guys infiltrating our sphere, greed, laziness, ignorance, and violence, that it begs the question, "what is to become of us?" What will happen to America, and American ideals?
Your 2nd to last sentence makes a case for everyone having a gun with them all the time. Doesn't that seem backward, like the Wild, Wild, West? There are too many crazy people that would shoot someone because they they piss them off, or they misunderstood a comment, or they got in a tiff, or their spouse disrespected them, and on and on and on. I think there are more crazy people because there are just MORE PEOPLE and there will always be a percentage of the population that is unstable. We have GOT to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people.
Gotta go now. BTW, I have women friends who have guns in their car, I understand that. And I would not be in favor of the govt taking away your gun(s). Unless you are crazy. (That was a joke.)
@ Mark
The NRA is a lobbying group with the aim to make it so gun manufacturers sell as many guns and accoutrement as possible. They may also advocate for gun safety, but hell, they should, they are selling deadly weapons. My guess is that Delta and other companies that went along with their decision, have the sense that an overwhelming majority of Americans want to see some kind of reasonable gun regulation in place,...
@ Mark
The NRA is a lobbying group with the aim to make it so gun manufacturers sell as many guns and accoutrement as possible. They may also advocate for gun safety, but hell, they should, they are selling deadly weapons. My guess is that Delta and other companies that went along with their decision, have the sense that an overwhelming majority of Americans want to see some kind of reasonable gun regulation in place, along with resources for coordinating an information database with regard to those that should not have access to guns. This call for legislation, coupled by the gruesome violence associated with all these mass shootings, makes this particular mandate of the people even more compelling and emotional.
Lastly, hatred among humans is not the law of the land. In fact, we are wired to care for each other, and my guess is that even you, Mark, would put yourself on the line in an instant to save another human being. It is fear that comes from not understanding others, that drives people to fight, it always has been. It is the greed of those in power that allows our leaders to abandon what is most important to a civil society, and to disregard what we all innately know to be best for the greater good. Fear and Greed. In my opinion, The NRA (along with innumerable other groups) seems to perpetuate both of these vices. As do the leaders that fear the personal consequences of opposing them. The NRA is powerful, for sure, but so are the masses when they think logically, act in peaceful ways, and are determined to continue the advancement of a civilized world, and have the right to vote.
What a pile of liberal crap you spew dana, I am all for americans having more guns , Get a backbone and teach a kid to shoot , preferably shoot back. All this compassion spells weak in the knees to me, you probably voted for same sex marriage too? this country is becoming weak and disoriented of its morals and standards,This is what happens when the people get brainwashed by a crooked and liberal media,...
What a pile of liberal crap you spew dana, I am all for americans having more guns , Get a backbone and teach a kid to shoot , preferably shoot back. All this compassion spells weak in the knees to me, you probably voted for same sex marriage too? this country is becoming weak and disoriented of its morals and standards,This is what happens when the people get brainwashed by a crooked and liberal media, even cuba didn't fail its people so badly with its government run network of brainwashers, Its too bad someone as well spoken as yourself can't come up with a real plan to solve mental problems but more gun laws are just a bandaid and shortcuts seldom work , Just look at prohibition, imagine the blackmarket for guns, this country has trillions, thats why were still the most powerful country in the world, look at the people getting run down in cars, and look how many people die from drunk drivers ,Still they sell alcohol, o but only if your 21, hows that working, i should know my brother got killed at 22 by a drunk. You blame the tool or the machine all you want but it won't stop ever until we put people in congress who can solve hatred among us, with 100 different religions and many many different ethnic backgrounds coming in to this country we will always have problems, you think love will solve this / GOOD LUCK ,what we need to do is respect one another and i respect the fact that if i mess with someone in the wrong way they might have a gun.We need to fight back.
@Rob said "Which countries are you referring to that had gun problems, removed guns and now don’t have a gun problem?"
Three countries substantially reduced access to guns (not total bans, but major restrictions) and have had a substantial reduction in mass shootings (in two cases, zero school shootings since the restrictions were put in place. You may have heard of them:
Australia
Canada
the United Kingdom
I hope Delta and every company who pulled this crap of backing out suffer the consequences. It is a gutless move to take the easy way out. They all know what the N.R.A. stands for and they always have, our freedoms. Guns, Automobiles, Planes, Knives are all machines we take for granted, Just look at how many people die from drunk driving each year and yet we still sell alcohol . How bout that prohibition,...
I hope Delta and every company who pulled this crap of backing out suffer the consequences. It is a gutless move to take the easy way out. They all know what the N.R.A. stands for and they always have, our freedoms. Guns, Automobiles, Planes, Knives are all machines we take for granted, Just look at how many people die from drunk driving each year and yet we still sell alcohol . How bout that prohibition, Just imagine if they tried to take all our guns, only the crooks would have them and the honest would be left defenseless. think of the lawsuits by the millions to our government over being left defenseless to protect your familiy and self. The police show up after the crime . My thoughts and prayers to the victims of these gutless crimes but we need to fight fire with fire , these shooters were not suicide by cop they picked on defenseless people, It never would have happened if they new they were going to get there head blown off by a shotgun, We have a hundred different religions in this country and god knows how many different races there are, there will always be hatred among humans, its the law of the land. Other countries have vigilanty justice and they have way less crime percentage by numbers. a bit crude but point made, people fear pain, our investigators failed those kids not the N.R.A. The NRA Advocates safe gun use. This country has a constitution and we need to fight back. were not programed robots like some other countries do to there people.
Politicians should have to take a legal vow to uphold our constitutional rights no matter what the agenda is or be emediatly fired from duty, what is this a dictatorship run country, we have rights , we need to elect people who are smart enough to solve the real problem that is hatred and mental disorder , are we going to raise the age to drive to 21? that still won't stop hundreds of people...
Politicians should have to take a legal vow to uphold our constitutional rights no matter what the agenda is or be emediatly fired from duty, what is this a dictatorship run country, we have rights , we need to elect people who are smart enough to solve the real problem that is hatred and mental disorder , are we going to raise the age to drive to 21? that still won't stop hundreds of people from getting run over , the criminal will just find another way to do damage, we need to go after the motive and the drive and have a better documentation of mental aggression.
I was just about to join Planned Parenthood and pay my dues when I heard GA government swear that I'd get a discount from Delta! They should coin a term for things like that - where people say stuff and report it as news, but it ends up being fake.
@HF "an organization that does not advocate responsible use of a deadly weapon such as the NRA is doing. For the NRA to claim that the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy by Americans demanding a national debate about gun control related to automated weapons"
WTF?
If an AR-15 were "automated" (sic), it would fire on its own without needing any one to be anywhere near it. In fact, an AR is simply a normal SEMI-automatic,...
@HF "an organization that does not advocate responsible use of a deadly weapon such as the NRA is doing. For the NRA to claim that the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy by Americans demanding a national debate about gun control related to automated weapons"
WTF?
If an AR-15 were "automated" (sic), it would fire on its own without needing any one to be anywhere near it. In fact, an AR is simply a normal SEMI-automatic, meaning it fires once each time the trigger is pulled, just like 95% of the guns sold in the US (there are a few single shot rifles, and a few double barrel shotguns sold, but not many).
Military guns aka "weapons of war" can be fully automatic, meaning they keep firing as long as the trigger is kept pulled. But FULLY-automatic guns are illegal to sell, or even possess, for civilian use. Even the police can't have fully automatic weapons.
Where do you get this idea that the NRA "does not advocate responsible use" of guns? That's exactly what they do advocate. They conduct gun safety classes, and they lobby for a more complete 'do not sell' list to prevent criminals and the mentally ill from legally purchasing guns.
The NRA is not funded by gun manufacturers, but by the @5 million + members who pay dues. None of the mass shootings in the US have been committed by NRA members. But some of those mass shootings have been stopped by NRA members with concealed carry permits who killed the shooter, thus reducing the number of deaths. Often times a mass shooter will kill himself when simply confronted by someone else with a gun.
Note to the cynics: I am NOT a member of the NRA. Nor have I ever been a member. I did have a shotgun for pheasant and duck hunting when I was in high school, but that was a long time ago, and I haven't owned a gun for decades.
I AM a fan of the 2nd amendment. ;)
For anyone continuing to say move the hub to Minneapolis or Detroit you guys really don't get it. Neither of those airports can take much more volume let alone the amount that would have to be moved. And if they did move operations, quite a few flights that they operate long haul out of Atlanta may not continue to be viable options. And lastly if they pull out of Atlanta they will lose a ton...
For anyone continuing to say move the hub to Minneapolis or Detroit you guys really don't get it. Neither of those airports can take much more volume let alone the amount that would have to be moved. And if they did move operations, quite a few flights that they operate long haul out of Atlanta may not continue to be viable options. And lastly if they pull out of Atlanta they will lose a ton of business, because I can guarantee you that AA and UA will swoop in and take up any additional spots they can get. People these days don't love Delta enough to have to fly to Detroit or Minneapolis to get where they need go. They will move to other airlines because its easier.
I think it's absolutely disgusting of Delta to use this tragedy as a PR marketing campaign.
Why now? Why not in previous years? For example:
2016 when in Chicago, 4,000+ were shot, 808 died
2017 when in Chicago, 3,500+ were shot, 679 died
and Delta did nothing...
For reference, I hate guns, hope to never own or need one and wish they didn't exist.
It's illegal to kill someone. In many...
I think it's absolutely disgusting of Delta to use this tragedy as a PR marketing campaign.
Why now? Why not in previous years? For example:
2016 when in Chicago, 4,000+ were shot, 808 died
2017 when in Chicago, 3,500+ were shot, 679 died
and Delta did nothing...
For reference, I hate guns, hope to never own or need one and wish they didn't exist.
It's illegal to kill someone. In many states, Florida for one, crimes where guns are displayed or used receive harsher penalties than just the crime alone. It's illegal to rob a bank. It's illegal to use illegal drugs. Despite this, making something illegal doesn't stop its abuse. Making guns illegal won't stop their abuse.
I was passing through a FL town last month and the headline in the paper was a shooting at a McDonald's. Bonus: the gun was stolen from the local police department. The only way to have prevented that would be banning the police from carrying guns...
Rofl Delta is not moving out of GA, no way no how. That's laughable to even think about.
I think is is a responsible act for a corporation like Delta to withdraw its reduced fares for an organization that does not advocate responsible use of a deadly weapon such as the NRA is doing. For the NRA to claim that the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy by Americans demanding a national debate about gun control related to automated weapons such as used in the most recent (and many other) school shootings, it flat...
I think is is a responsible act for a corporation like Delta to withdraw its reduced fares for an organization that does not advocate responsible use of a deadly weapon such as the NRA is doing. For the NRA to claim that the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy by Americans demanding a national debate about gun control related to automated weapons such as used in the most recent (and many other) school shootings, it flat out disgusting. I applaud Delta and other companies who are finally standing up to this morally bankrupt organization. That any person in Congress with use a tit-for-tat and try to withdraw tax exemptions et. al, is equally bankrupt.The wild wild west is gone, folks and it is time to realize the rampant existence of guns in our society is going to bring it down. What is more important? the lives of our children or the money generated by gun sales? Enough is enough.
I thought republicans were for small government and here is a situation where republicans are actually threatening a company that if they don't business with a lobbying group then their tax break is in jeopardy? Talk about being a hypocrite. Also, I don't see why Delta needs to say "Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment." Why do I care what some big company thinks on a political issue.
For the record, Delta does NOT give discounts to Planned Parenthood members. Stop believing everything you read and see on conservative blogs.
@Chuck
Other than confiscating and providing fair market value compensation for any existing weapons owned by those who are actually identified and committed to an institution or placed in the care of a doctor specializing in mental illness, what would you have the government do?
Whilst I personally don't think Delta's statement goes far enough, they have politically tried to do the right thing even if they have done it in a clumsy way. For politicians to then say they will try to influence the tax affairs of this company unless the company supports their political aims is nothing short of corruption. These politicians should be removed from office and in any respectable western country, they would be forced to...
Whilst I personally don't think Delta's statement goes far enough, they have politically tried to do the right thing even if they have done it in a clumsy way. For politicians to then say they will try to influence the tax affairs of this company unless the company supports their political aims is nothing short of corruption. These politicians should be removed from office and in any respectable western country, they would be forced to resign. The best thing Delta could do is, as a previous poster commented, up sticks and move to a place where the politicians work for the people they represent and not for themselves.
Correction: Georgia may lose its Delta HQ over the NRA.
Let Cagle make his idiotic play over gun-owner discounts. Delta can pack up their offices and move up to Detroit or Minneapolis overnight, and take all those jobs with them. Governors in those states would be delighted to make nice with Delta in exchange for jobs and tax revenue.
"Americans Blame Government More Than Guns for Florida Massacre"
The Rasmussen Report is the best polling organization in the US. Election after election, it's polling results are correct to within the margin of error. For the 2016 election it predicted, unlike most polls, that HRC would win the popular vote by 2%, which is almost exactly what happened.
I'm on their email list, and they just sent me this:
"Most Americans think government error is...
"Americans Blame Government More Than Guns for Florida Massacre"
The Rasmussen Report is the best polling organization in the US. Election after election, it's polling results are correct to within the margin of error. For the 2016 election it predicted, unlike most polls, that HRC would win the popular vote by 2%, which is almost exactly what happened.
I'm on their email list, and they just sent me this:
"Most Americans think government error is more responsible than a lack of gun control for the Valentine’s Day massacre at a Florida high school.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 54% of American Adults believe the failure of government agencies to respond to numerous warning signs from the prospective killer is more to blame for the mass shooting. Thirty-three percent (33%) attribute the deaths more to a lack of adequate gun control. Eleven percent (11%) opt for something else.
Among Americans who have children of elementary or secondary school age, 61% think the government is more to blame. Just 23% of these adults fault a lack of adequate gun control more.
Ninety percent (90%) of all Americans say they have been following news reports about the Florida killings at least somewhat closely, with 53% who have been following Very Closely."
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My condolences to the "progressive" (sic) trolls here, trying to claim almost everyone believes their Big Government propaganda. :)
@Bob "Robert Hanson is either a Russian troll"...
Nope, despite being a life-long registered Democrat, I didn't vote for Hillary ('Russian reset, Uranium One give away, fake dossier) Clinton.
As for Trump/Putin collusion, I note that just a few days ago, the US military bombed the 'you know what' out of Russian forces in Syria, killing @200 Russian mercenaries. Meanwhile, Trump is putting back the ABM anti-missile emplacements that Putin convinced Obama to remove...
@Bob "Robert Hanson is either a Russian troll"...
Nope, despite being a life-long registered Democrat, I didn't vote for Hillary ('Russian reset, Uranium One give away, fake dossier) Clinton.
As for Trump/Putin collusion, I note that just a few days ago, the US military bombed the 'you know what' out of Russian forces in Syria, killing @200 Russian mercenaries. Meanwhile, Trump is putting back the ABM anti-missile emplacements that Putin convinced Obama to remove from Poland, and shipping US LNG to Eastern Europe, taking market share from Gazprom. Such a strange way for a puppet to act. ;)
Lucky, I'm not sure it was good form for you to comment on Delta's decision not to sponsor the NRA. I look to you for advice on airlines, hotels, new products, old products, and your own personal experiences, as well as those of your staff. (I'm a member and think you have an exceptional group of people working for you.) This debate seems out of what I would consider your sphere of influence and looks...
Lucky, I'm not sure it was good form for you to comment on Delta's decision not to sponsor the NRA. I look to you for advice on airlines, hotels, new products, old products, and your own personal experiences, as well as those of your staff. (I'm a member and think you have an exceptional group of people working for you.) This debate seems out of what I would consider your sphere of influence and looks a little too much like sensationalism. Sorry, I hope you are ok with constructive criticism.
I live in Georgia, I fly Delta before any other domestic airline. Delta is tremendously important to ATL, and it is incredibly disappointing to me that our Lt. Governor would risk challenging this tremendous asset for the sake of his own political posturing.
Delta and the State of Georgia work together and the goal is that the relationship be mutually beneficial. They are not the only Fortune 500 to be based in ATL and to have been stewarded by the state with tax breaks.
@Dusty, right, there's an avenue for improving the mental health aspect of the issue. That doesn't solve the issue of keeping big guns out of the hands of people who want to commit mass murder. If I am off my rocker, there is absolutely no way to guarantee that I am recognized by all (including people selling guns) as someone who shouldn't have access to weapons, because we as a country do not think that...
@Dusty, right, there's an avenue for improving the mental health aspect of the issue. That doesn't solve the issue of keeping big guns out of the hands of people who want to commit mass murder. If I am off my rocker, there is absolutely no way to guarantee that I am recognized by all (including people selling guns) as someone who shouldn't have access to weapons, because we as a country do not think that way yet. Additionally, there is the issue of guns I acquired long ago, when I was in my right mind, before [x] set me off.
Robert Hanson is either a Russian troll or on the NRA payroll. Take your pick.
@Chuck
The NICS already includes records of individuals who have been committed to a mental institution or have been adjucated as mentally deficient. The problem is, if people are not seeking treatment, not committed to a mental institution, or no action is taken by authorities on multiple warnings from those close to the individual, then nothing is going to show in the NICS. Reforming our mental healthcare system will both provide those records to the...
@Chuck
The NICS already includes records of individuals who have been committed to a mental institution or have been adjucated as mentally deficient. The problem is, if people are not seeking treatment, not committed to a mental institution, or no action is taken by authorities on multiple warnings from those close to the individual, then nothing is going to show in the NICS. Reforming our mental healthcare system will both provide those records to the NICS, and provide help to those who need it so that they don't acquire a gun illegally via theft or straw purchase.
@ "The nra should’ve just said they’d try and get a talk to the law makers about linking the mental health records to gun buying instead of grandstanding."
Except, as you apparently don't know, they've been doing exactly that for years.
The NRA has been a major force calling for stricter screening of gun purchasers, and a more complete listing of criminal records and mental health records, for years. The Parklands shooter had police...
@ "The nra should’ve just said they’d try and get a talk to the law makers about linking the mental health records to gun buying instead of grandstanding."
Except, as you apparently don't know, they've been doing exactly that for years.
The NRA has been a major force calling for stricter screening of gun purchasers, and a more complete listing of criminal records and mental health records, for years. The Parklands shooter had police called to his home @24 times, but he wasn't put on the list. One of the previous shooters had a dishonorable discharge from the military, but wasn't put on the list. As Dana Loesch told CPAC the other day, 18 states fail to report at least 20% of their citizens criminal records to the do not sell list. How is this the NRAs fault?
The NRA knows each and every time a whacko goes on a shooting spree, it makes it harder and harder to defend the 2nd amendment. They want those people kept from buying guns. But they still get the blame when the government fails to keep the list up to date.
Why is everyone talking about "guns, guns, guns"? The FBI was warned over and over again that this whacko was going to shoot up a school, and didn't tell anyone local. The sheriffs office was warned something like 18 times that this whacko was going to shoot up a school, and did nothing. The police were called to his house, originally reported 18 times, now it turns out 24 times, including being told that he...
Why is everyone talking about "guns, guns, guns"? The FBI was warned over and over again that this whacko was going to shoot up a school, and didn't tell anyone local. The sheriffs office was warned something like 18 times that this whacko was going to shoot up a school, and did nothing. The police were called to his house, originally reported 18 times, now it turns out 24 times, including being told that he held a gun to the heads of both his mother and his brother, and they did nothing. One arrest for any of this and he would have been banned from buying a gun.
As Libertarian Law Professor Glen Reynolds just said in his USA Today article:
"Florida shooting yet another government failure to keep us safe: Glenn Reynolds"
From the FBI to local law enforcement to the schools, every institution failed. We have more government than ever, but it isn't working.
The chief problem facing America today is the decline of its institutions, coupled with the denial of that decline by the people in charge of its institutions.
The latest example of this problem is the Parkland school shooting in Florida. From the FBI, to local law enforcement, to the schools, everyone failed. There was failure early, there was failure in the middle, and there was failure late. And no one has taken responsibility.
It’s not as if there weren’t warning signs. The Miami Herald has published a chilling list of the times authorities were warned about shooter Nikolas Cruz. Not only was the FBI told about a YouTube post in which Cruz said he wanted to be a professional school shooter (but failed to make the connection to Cruz despite him using his real name in the post), the FBI also received a phone call in which a woman warned that he would “get into a school and just shoot the place up.” She also said that he dressed as a ninja or ISIS member.
There was failure early, there was failure in the middle, and there was failure late. And no one has taken responsibility.
It’s not as if there weren’t warning signs. The Miami Herald has published a chilling list of the times authorities were warned about shooter Nikolas Cruz. Not only was the FBI told about a YouTube post in which Cruz said he wanted to be a professional school shooter (but failed to make the connection to Cruz despite him using his real name in the post), the FBI also received a phone call in which a woman warned that he would “get into a school and just shoot the place up.” She also said that he dressed as a ninja or ISIS member.
And over two years ago, on Feb. 15, 2016, local authorities were warned: “A Broward Sheriff’s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.”
But nothing was done.
Then, when Cruz finally began shooting up the school, the failures became even more outrageous. A Broward County sheriff’s deputy — weirdly, the same Deputy Scot Peterson who apparently ignored the Instagram threat and also refused to cooperate with investigators — was on the scene, but cowered in the parking lot instead of taking action.
Then CNN reported that not only did Peterson stay out of the building, three other deputies hid behind cars instead of intervening. Four armed, trained deputies stayed outside instead of moving forward to protect young people who were being killed essentially in their presence.
It was police from the nearby town of Coral Springs who eventually entered the school, and reportedly are angry at the nonperformance of the Broward deputies. And they should be.
Despite Broward Sheriff Scott Israel’s all-out attack on the NRA the night before Peterson's inaction became public, this debacle illustrates why so many Americans want to own guns, and aren’t comfortable relying solely on “trained professional law enforcement officers” like Scot Peterson. As Jim Geraghty writes in National Review, “the Parkland shooting is proving to be a colossal cascading failure of both local and federal law enforcement. We know the world has plenty of good cops and good FBI agents. But as American citizens, we never know when we’re going to roll snake-eyes and find that the threat in our midst was missed by cops and that they will not come quickly to our rescue. This is why we need the option to protect ourselves — a right which is in the Constitution. What is the point of changing our laws if the police cannot rise to the challenge of enforcing them?”
In Sheriff Israel’s case — as with Harvey Weinstein's promise to "give the NRA my full attention" after he was exposed as a sexual predator — blaming the NRA is an attempt at deflection, and a way of rallying Democrats to his side. It didn’t work for Weinstein and it’s not likely to work for Israel, either.
But the bigger question is this: We have more government, at all levels, than we’ve ever had before. Yet failures like this keep happening. The FBI, after all, missed the Tsarnaevs (who committed the Boston Marathon bombing) despite being warned by the Russian government. It missed the 9/11 attacks even though it was investigating Zacarias Moussaoui — agents investigating Moussaoui hit so many roadblocks that they joked that Osama bin Laden must have had a mole in the Bureau HQ. And, of course, the San Bernardino shooters and Pulse nightclub shooter Omar Mateen escaped the net as well.
People are being asked to trust the government to keep them safe, when the government is patently unable to do so. And then, when the government fails, it engages in blame-shifting deflection. Why should people listen? Increasingly, they won’t."
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And yet people keep shouting "guns, NRA, guns, NRA, guns, NRA".... sheesh......
Hmmmm if I were an executive of a foreign company, I would be carefully noting what's transpiring right now. Next time someone cries "Subsidies!!!", we would have this to go back to.
@Dusty, why does the implemented solution have to comprise only one element? Why is it not possible to work to overhaul the mental health crisis while also making it much more difficult for unstable people to obtain weapons they can use to kill dozens of people in a minute? We cared enough about people to put blocking bars on trailers and human-proof lids on Tylenol, and we can no longer carry a bottle of water...
@Dusty, why does the implemented solution have to comprise only one element? Why is it not possible to work to overhaul the mental health crisis while also making it much more difficult for unstable people to obtain weapons they can use to kill dozens of people in a minute? We cared enough about people to put blocking bars on trailers and human-proof lids on Tylenol, and we can no longer carry a bottle of water from home to the plane, all in response to singular events. But gun-related matters, nope. They're different. There wasn't a trailer lobby, or a Tylenol lobby, nor a lobby protecting our water-toting rights.
@Debit, if you honestly believe that "liberals" have "done nothing for you", then one thing is clear: your ability to understand search engine results is seriously impaired.
Amazing how all the pro-NRA and Russian trolls said they were leaving this site and boycotting it after the previous NRA post and yet...they're still here.
Instead of focusing on the implement used, why not focus on the root of the problem? The US has terrible mental healthcare. It's expensive and until the Affordable Care Act was not covered to nearly the same extent as physical healthcare by most employer health insurance. Even when you do get treatment, they push pills on you and hope the problem goes away. Often times, these drugs can induce extreme behavior changes. Solve the mental...
Instead of focusing on the implement used, why not focus on the root of the problem? The US has terrible mental healthcare. It's expensive and until the Affordable Care Act was not covered to nearly the same extent as physical healthcare by most employer health insurance. Even when you do get treatment, they push pills on you and hope the problem goes away. Often times, these drugs can induce extreme behavior changes. Solve the mental healthcare issue, and you've gone much farther to solving the "gun problem" than banning black rifles with a pistol grip.
And while we're on solving root causes, let's also raise the driving age from 16 to 20 and be much stricter on grading driving exams. After all, it's a tragedy that so many people die every year on US roadways due to dumb teens doing dumb things in multi-ton vehicles.
How about delta move the main operations up here to dtw and let them trump surrogates continue to cry about the nra. The nra should've just said they'd try and get a talk to the law makers about linking the mental health records to gun buying instead of grandstanding. It would be hard for anyone to digest this if their family member had been caught in situation.
"Delta is reaching out to the National Rifle Association to let it know that the airline will be ending its contract for discounted fares...."
"Reaching out" ??? Who the hell wrote this piece of crap. Whoever the author of this is, he/she has no idea of proper writing, syntax, or grammar. Another example of the sub-standard return on education dollars spent to educate this person... Colleges and universities are welfare recipients on a gigantic scale...
"Delta is reaching out to the National Rifle Association to let it know that the airline will be ending its contract for discounted fares...."
"Reaching out" ??? Who the hell wrote this piece of crap. Whoever the author of this is, he/she has no idea of proper writing, syntax, or grammar. Another example of the sub-standard return on education dollars spent to educate this person... Colleges and universities are welfare recipients on a gigantic scale with all the student loan dollars being thrown at them. These 'loans' will never be repaid and will do more harm than good in the long run. All student loan programs should be discontinued and the college marketplace should set tuition rates based on supply and demand. Period.
What a hoot! Delta, the perennial 'holier than thou ' in respect of EU and ME subsidies ( at least equal to Boeing in the whining stakes), themselves on the receiving end of rebates at taxpayer expense.
Their pale pink stand on the NRA will win them few friends.
If only one of the airlines would only say : " we don't like the NRA and a significant proportion of its members are rabid ratbags, at best"...that's an airline I would fly with.
@callum
Oh, really? Wow, wouldn't that be convenient if anything you said was true? Which countries are you referring to that had gun problems, removed guns and now don't have a gun problem? And I am most enthusiastic to hear which countries had poverty, launched aggressive welfare and now solved their poverty problems?
Are you talking about ACTUAL countries or the made up ones that dance around in liberal fairyland?
Not getting a special corporate tax break is not punishment. If the legislature says Delta taxed 10% more unless they change their stance that’s wrong. Every tax break is money rest of the state pays for if a company can’t abide by policies of the state they benefit from they either need a new home or agree to what that state requests.
So wait a minute. What does supporting the NRA have to do with tax breaks and couldn't Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle saying that be construed as bribery. The government of Georgia now gives or takes away tax breaks on the basis of what groups are supported by the private company? Does no one else see anything wrong with that (no I didn't read the comments)?
Forget the whole issue and industry at hand here...
So wait a minute. What does supporting the NRA have to do with tax breaks and couldn't Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle saying that be construed as bribery. The government of Georgia now gives or takes away tax breaks on the basis of what groups are supported by the private company? Does no one else see anything wrong with that (no I didn't read the comments)?
Forget the whole issue and industry at hand here - this guy should be taken out of office today if that is has thinking and stance.
A ridiculous knee-jerk reaction that demonstrates the power a nut-bag group like the NRA has over elected representatives!
Hey citizens of the USA - you have lost control of your life!
@Carfield If you think Delta is even going to divest 5% of its business from Atlanta your nuts. The closest hub to move to is Detroit, not really in the same ballpark. And It probably wouldn't hurt Atlanta or Georgia very much anyway, because im sure AA and UA would be fighting for the spots that Delta would give up. Along with some smaller airlines like Spirit, JetBlue, and others.
Rob - Au contraire. Countries with gun problems that removed guns largely solved their gun problems. Countries with poverty problems which launched aggressive welfare schemes largely solved their poverty problems.
What impulsive, short sighted people struggle to grasp is that while things may not have drastic immediate effects, they can have significant long term effects. An inherent problem in a democracy where if you don't get visible results within 5 years to secure your next...
Rob - Au contraire. Countries with gun problems that removed guns largely solved their gun problems. Countries with poverty problems which launched aggressive welfare schemes largely solved their poverty problems.
What impulsive, short sighted people struggle to grasp is that while things may not have drastic immediate effects, they can have significant long term effects. An inherent problem in a democracy where if you don't get visible results within 5 years to secure your next election victory, there's no point in doing it.
Nope. Nothing lately. Just nothing.
High taxes, forced health care, feces laden street because homeless run amok, illegals and felons with more rights than lawful citizens, high government salaries and cushy union jobs.
Liberals need to clean up their shop. Their only raison detre is "not republican". And this has been a winning strategy because conservatives are dumb fucks. We need multiparty system. Need party is good.
Dear @Debit,
You asked what Liberals have done for you. The list is too massive for me to list here, but do yourself a favor and google it, I’ll bet you’re gonna be surprised and then never mention it again.
I believe that the good city of Charlotte would happily welcome Delta’s business.
American already has 95% the gates. No room for Delta.....
I don’t trust Delta to do anything in my interest. I don’t trust any politician to do anything in my interest, and I don’t trust the NRA to do anything in my interest. They all share a pure and burning commitment to the pursuit of money and/or power at the direct expense of everyone else. If you think any of them care about you, your interests, or your family…you are fooling yourself.
Like the MDS Parkland High School students, I called it BS. It is nothing like political posturing for the midterm election in November.
Delta is such a powerful corporation in Georgia and its dominance in Atlanta is no joke. Even if it decides to divest 5% of its Atlanta operation to other hubs, it will have a devastating effect on Georgia. The only area around ATL is basically designed to accommodate Delta and its...
Like the MDS Parkland High School students, I called it BS. It is nothing like political posturing for the midterm election in November.
Delta is such a powerful corporation in Georgia and its dominance in Atlanta is no joke. Even if it decides to divest 5% of its Atlanta operation to other hubs, it will have a devastating effect on Georgia. The only area around ATL is basically designed to accommodate Delta and its giant operation. Plus Lt Governor's gesture proves the points that these courage teenagers and most Americans are aware of - power of lobbying, and how it is time to change it! This and previous generation has failed on many issues and the fact that we allow a decision like Citizen United is pretty shameful. My hope is that Generation Z will change this toxic political culture and we will finally overturn Citizen United, and rewrite the political rules. Politicians work for us, not the lobbyists. I think it is pretty despicable that any running politician has to spend 50% or more of them time actually in fundraising, calling donors, and instead of attending town halls and actually talking to his or her constituents.
Back to the topic, this is an empty threat and a reflection of the power of NRA lobbyists like Marion Hammers over politicians in local government.
Looks like the Georgia senate and governor are the NRA's bitches.
@Prabuddha
That has to be one of the most stupid comparisons anyone has ever made, ever.
"Planned Parenthood kills 50x as many children as guns do every year."
Another stupid and nonfactual thing to say.
@Richard - that question is really only pertinent to the US and China. However, Chinese enterprises are state owned so the second example doesn't count. Refined petroleum doesn't qualify as a raw material by most economies.
Businesses run the governments in the US. So much for checks and balances.
We desire subsides for healthcare, fuel, utilities, etc. However, we also want less government intervention. Can't have both guys. These days I shy away from questions such as "where am I from?" Thank goodness I don't have an American accent.
"Delta is contradicting itself since it is obvious they are taking a position against NRA."
Or, declining to support NRA? Good; fed up with the stranglehold the gun lobby has.
After 9/11 we should have banned planes. Why is Delta still in business. There is not even a constitutional amendment protecting the right to fly.
If banning airlines sounds like an overreaction to 2000 people dying what do you think of banning assault rifles because 17 people died?
In response to Charles S at 5:08 pm, "We see the same things in liberal states against conservative companies." As a native of a "liberal" Northeast state, no you don't. If we worked in the same disingenuous manner, The Trump Company and all its executives would be in a NY state prison for all its shady tactics.
As the largest private employer in Georgia, Delta should cut back operations and lay off staff. I'm...
In response to Charles S at 5:08 pm, "We see the same things in liberal states against conservative companies." As a native of a "liberal" Northeast state, no you don't. If we worked in the same disingenuous manner, The Trump Company and all its executives would be in a NY state prison for all its shady tactics.
As the largest private employer in Georgia, Delta should cut back operations and lay off staff. I'm pretty sure the repercussions to Georgia would be greater than $50 million.
@Cedric
What companies pay sales tax on raw materials? Fuel is a raw material.
@Deb...you are saying yes to Delta and no to FedEx? I am confused....are you overnighting a package on Delta and no longer booking a seat on FedEx? While I do agree with your premise at least for the sake of the cause make your statements an apple to apple one.
@ donna. Well, while that might be a perfect solution in a perfect world but this is far from it. Atlanta is a massively profitable and perfectly positioned Hub. Delta is not going anywhere. While I applaud Delta for this decision I do think they sorta trolled it a bit with that statement. In the end we also learn that that for insiders to the system as many readers are here that this has exposed...
@ donna. Well, while that might be a perfect solution in a perfect world but this is far from it. Atlanta is a massively profitable and perfectly positioned Hub. Delta is not going anywhere. While I applaud Delta for this decision I do think they sorta trolled it a bit with that statement. In the end we also learn that that for insiders to the system as many readers are here that this has exposed Delta for getting, god forbid, subsidies? I mean, hmmm...a bit embarrassing and Qatar and Emirates are, I am sure, laughing right now.
Planned Parenthood kills 50x as many children as guns do every year. But I guess because it is a 'choice' it does not matter. Really????
And nowhere in the constitution is abortion even mentioned.
DL opened a can of worms here and will be hard pressed to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Same with Alamo et al. Screw them..I can use their competitors
@jadeloft - "Delta does not need to remain in ATL"
Okay, where would you propose DL move the ATL hub TO? There's no other city in the Southern US with an airport nearly large enough to take on the role, and ATL is ideally positioned to allow DL a huge advantage - they can run TATL, transcon, and Latin American flights. AA does fine with the combination of Charlotte and Miami, but ATL fulfills both...
@jadeloft - "Delta does not need to remain in ATL"
Okay, where would you propose DL move the ATL hub TO? There's no other city in the Southern US with an airport nearly large enough to take on the role, and ATL is ideally positioned to allow DL a huge advantage - they can run TATL, transcon, and Latin American flights. AA does fine with the combination of Charlotte and Miami, but ATL fulfills both roles. One of UA's big disadvantages is the lack of a true Southern hub, IAH is too far west and IAD is too far north for optimum connectivity.
There's no other airport in the southern US that could take on anything faintly resembling the ATL hub - MEM and RDU are decently placed, but would require huge and expensive buildouts. ORL is too far south and doesn't have spare terminal space. TPA could have new terminal space online faster, but is also too far south. All four have smaller O&D markets. I can't think of another airport in the Southeast that would work without decades of building and political struggles over financing.
And if DL downgraded ATL to a large spoke station, there'd be a lot of terminal space available for others to expand, maybe even a prime candidate for a start-up the way JFK's available real estate made JetBlue possible. (If WN had shown any imagination at the time and snapped up T6 when TWA folded, there wouldn't be a JetBlue today, at least not as we know it.)
Delta is not moving from ATL that’s a given.
They are not truthful when saying that they stay away from controversial orgs. Planned parenthood is controversial. Southern poverty law center is controversial, etc. DL would never send a twitter message about not transporting aborted baby body parts intended for sale.
Some 20-something idiot got excited about gratuitous virtue signaling and now big boys at DL have a headache.
I thought Delta was against airlines getting government subsidies. I guess that just applies to their competition.
And of you guys suggesting Delta can/should/will leave Atlanta are clueless. Delta isn't going anywhere. They may save some money on fuel elsewhere but it would cost them way more upfront. All of the other airlines would more than happily move in and take the business.
And time for Amazon to boycott Atlanta in bid for their second HQ.
I'm voting with my pocketbook. Yes to Delta. No to FedEx.
Well I know anything about said tax bill, so I can’t say as to whether or not I’m in favor of it, Delta’s cutting ties with the NRA is an absolutely childish and pathetic reason to not support it.
Time for delta to move hub from Atlanta to somewhere else. Teach this GA Lg or whoever he is (who cares whats his name) a lesson.
Why is it that every time the gun debate comes up, people start bitching about gay rights and gay marriage? Between this post and yesterday’s...I get it (to a degree) that gun supporters like to make the grand leap that common sense gun legislation will somehow cause the FBI to show up at your door and take your guns away. It’s a ridiculous narrative IMO, but I can see why people go there. But what...
Why is it that every time the gun debate comes up, people start bitching about gay rights and gay marriage? Between this post and yesterday’s...I get it (to a degree) that gun supporters like to make the grand leap that common sense gun legislation will somehow cause the FBI to show up at your door and take your guns away. It’s a ridiculous narrative IMO, but I can see why people go there. But what has gay marriage taken away from you? How has it affected your life negatively? Other than allowing millions of people to make a legal, lifelong commitment to the person they love, has it been the downfall of society, or marriage in general? It’s straight people that created at 50% divorce rate, not the gays.
If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get gay married. Period. But to compare it to the second amendment, as if someone is trying to take away something from you because others are celebrating their commitment to each other, just completely weakens and dilutes your argument. One had nothing to do with the other, and completely illustrates your immaturity, not to mention your lack of manhood. Real men are not theatened by gay people marrying, because they know doesn’t affect them in any real way.
The hard questions need to be asked. What have liberals done for me? The society has been saved already. Enough! There is no excuse for curse words though. Sorry
@ jadeloft
Who could disagree with the very rational notion you suggest in increasing "oversight and accountability?" Sure it won't solve the problem entirely, but I would agree the way you present it sounds like it would certainly save some percentage of lives. I also can't see how anyone could disagree with your statement, "There’s not enough oversight nor accountability nor penalties for not complying with existing laws on the books." Last time I...
@ jadeloft
Who could disagree with the very rational notion you suggest in increasing "oversight and accountability?" Sure it won't solve the problem entirely, but I would agree the way you present it sounds like it would certainly save some percentage of lives. I also can't see how anyone could disagree with your statement, "There’s not enough oversight nor accountability nor penalties for not complying with existing laws on the books." Last time I checked it was also an existing law on the books that you can't enter the country illegally, and I believe it is also an existing law on the books that you can't scrape off serial numbers on guns, nor sell illegal drugs, nor rape anyone.
I'm just baffled why folks think that even though we have never been able to implement such a well meaning and comprehensive "oversight and accountability" effort for any other problem of law breaking, somehow guns are different. It's just not credible to suggest we could somehow oversee where all guns are and how they are being used when we can't even keep track of 11 million entire human beings from moving back and forth through our borders at will without having so much as a list of their first names, though I suspect many of them are Jose.
Debit loves the attention
@Debit - You get to be a laughingstock.
@Debit - wow your really dumb aren’t you? I wonder if you talk that way around your friends. Oh wait you prob do drinkin PBR and preachin god guns and ammo.
Just so you know. Actually the Supreme Court gave us homos the right to marry and the executive office gave all those illegal children immigrants, most of which probably read better than you, the ability to stay here. Two things you already have.
Unfortunately. Nothing to do with your bitch Pelosi.
GTFO
I’m not pro-NRA, but if they want to remain neutral they should stop supporting all organisations. Alcohol is the cause of DWI/DUIs and alcohol related deaths, but no uprising for supporting them.
IMO, this is just liberal media stoking their fan base to take advantage of a tragedy. Delta fell for it.....
Is this a travel info site or political? There are enough of those garbage sites so please get back to travel tips.
Fortunately there are other choices when choosing an airline. Mine will no longer include Delta or their crummy discount.
They're playing a game of chicken here because Delta will likely not want to face the repercussions of reversing their NRA stance and Georgia doesn't want Delta to leave Atlanta. However, Delta is FAR more likely to reverse their stance than to leave Atlanta. Think they'd just let a competitor takeover Hartsfield-Jackson as a hub? No chance in hell. Just shows that Delta did not think this decision out well. I get taking a "neutral"...
They're playing a game of chicken here because Delta will likely not want to face the repercussions of reversing their NRA stance and Georgia doesn't want Delta to leave Atlanta. However, Delta is FAR more likely to reverse their stance than to leave Atlanta. Think they'd just let a competitor takeover Hartsfield-Jackson as a hub? No chance in hell. Just shows that Delta did not think this decision out well. I get taking a "neutral" position, but it reeked of grandstanding. Companies have to be careful what they wish for with grandstanding in the social media age. You gain friends and make enemies.
I agreed with Kyle, Delta should just " maintained the status quo and not said anything." By announcing their position, Delta is contradicting itself since it is obvious they are taking a position against NRA. Delta should continue its stance that their business objective is to serve its customers and to get more business. The fact that they give discounts to customers to attend NRA conference is part of serving these two objectives, and not...
I agreed with Kyle, Delta should just " maintained the status quo and not said anything." By announcing their position, Delta is contradicting itself since it is obvious they are taking a position against NRA. Delta should continue its stance that their business objective is to serve its customers and to get more business. The fact that they give discounts to customers to attend NRA conference is part of serving these two objectives, and not necessarily supporting or against gun control.
By publicly withdrawing the discount once offered to its customers, Delta is putting itself into this political mess --not very smart!!
This is why I hate the bitch Pelosi and all the fake liberal assholes.
They couldn't close the carried interest loophole, they couldn't close the religious tax free loophole. All they gave us were gays getting to marry each other, and illegal getting getting to stay. WTF did I get? Straight legal male. What have the liberals done for me lately?
@rob
I don't think any intelligent person on either side is naive enough to think guns are the reason people go psycho and kill children. But that's not the point. The point is there needs to be more oversight and accountability of an item that leads to death (whether it's cause you mistakenly shot yourself or your kid sister or went crazy and shot up your church). There's not enough oversight nor accountability nor penalties...
@rob
I don't think any intelligent person on either side is naive enough to think guns are the reason people go psycho and kill children. But that's not the point. The point is there needs to be more oversight and accountability of an item that leads to death (whether it's cause you mistakenly shot yourself or your kid sister or went crazy and shot up your church). There's not enough oversight nor accountability nor penalties for not complying with existing laws on the books. Also, there definitely needs to be a nationwide way to track them and their owners and there needs to be discussion on the size of clips/ammo. It's one thing if you are crazy to be able to kill a handful of people before the cops get you and quite another to kill 200-300 hundred simply because there's not enough legislation dealing with all the items that need to be accounted for including mental health check and all the other stuff.
No one wants to believe banning guns will fix everything, that's way to simplistic and if you think that's what most people think then I can tell you that you are misinformed.
So, let's hypothesise: Delta says "no more discounts for members of the NRA, a private organisation." Georgia decides to say "Fine, no more fuel tax break." Delta says "Fine, we'll move out of Georgia" (a move that would cost them something to initiate, but if they moved to a state that said "We'll gladly give you that break" it would save them in the long run.
Now Georgia loses all that business because they were...
So, let's hypothesise: Delta says "no more discounts for members of the NRA, a private organisation." Georgia decides to say "Fine, no more fuel tax break." Delta says "Fine, we'll move out of Georgia" (a move that would cost them something to initiate, but if they moved to a state that said "We'll gladly give you that break" it would save them in the long run.
Now Georgia loses all that business because they were dicks about the NRA. It's a lobby group. I don't know why they gave them a discount in the first place. What about discounting AARP? The NAACP? The NEA (either one of them?) It's a courtesy discount and they don't owe anyone anything. Screw Georgia.
@donna you got that right about moving their hub. Now that is political clout!
Delta does not need to remain in ATL. I would think GA needs Delta there more than Delta needs the government to give them tax breaks. LOL people are dumb on both sides. It's not like Delta is discriminating on the grounds of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin - it's making a business decision to cut ties with a controversial club (eye-roll).
Go DELTA!!
Finally, the right wing gave up the "be better than them" idiocy. If ultra left wing women can complain their way to things on Twitter, so can and should actual Americans.
Oh. I forgot. We have the money. Don't try us. That's a lesson Delta's compromised managment is about to learn the hard way.
What JL said. Though I'm not surprised that Delta gets subsidies; all big companies go after them and almost always get them. I suspect JL isn't surprised either.
Um, I agree with your first post Eric, but not with your follow-up...
I'm with you, Erik. Well said.
Also it's hilarious how all you anti-gun commentators are all in a tizzy over this. Just the other day you were defending Delta's right to do whatever they wanted. Now all of a sudden it's a first amendment issue when the Georgia legislature refuses to give them a tax break? It's a red state, and they're under no obligation to give Delta anything. Delta should have thought of that before they caved to a twitter...
Also it's hilarious how all you anti-gun commentators are all in a tizzy over this. Just the other day you were defending Delta's right to do whatever they wanted. Now all of a sudden it's a first amendment issue when the Georgia legislature refuses to give them a tax break? It's a red state, and they're under no obligation to give Delta anything. Delta should have thought of that before they caved to a twitter mob and used their corporate platform disparage conservatives. This business works both ways, you know.
But @asdf, Delta could decide to move some operations or make additional investments in other hubs instead of ATL. I mean, they just did at$ 220M+ renovation at LAX. This translates into real, well-paying jobs that politicians say they love.
But at the end of the day, Delta will likely get in the neighborhood of $800M from tax reform changes. So Delta's leadership is as equally worried about this $50M threat as they are...
But @asdf, Delta could decide to move some operations or make additional investments in other hubs instead of ATL. I mean, they just did at$ 220M+ renovation at LAX. This translates into real, well-paying jobs that politicians say they love.
But at the end of the day, Delta will likely get in the neighborhood of $800M from tax reform changes. So Delta's leadership is as equally worried about this $50M threat as they are a gold medallion on flight from ATL to SLC. And it's not that much.
I would say that Delta has as much right to untaxed jet fuel as NRA members have to Delta fare discounts. That is to say, none at all. So boo hoo for them.
perfect. more guns for you liberals cry about.
Well, it was a nice try to circumvent the constitution with the threat of cancelling a coupon. Much easier than actually getting the votes to amend the constitution. Just significantly less effective. I don't own a gun, but I'm not naive enough to think guns are the reason people go psycho and kill children. I know y'all really want to believe banning guns will fix everything, but it won't fix murder any more than welfare...
Well, it was a nice try to circumvent the constitution with the threat of cancelling a coupon. Much easier than actually getting the votes to amend the constitution. Just significantly less effective. I don't own a gun, but I'm not naive enough to think guns are the reason people go psycho and kill children. I know y'all really want to believe banning guns will fix everything, but it won't fix murder any more than welfare fixes poverty. Delta was just plain dumb to stick its neck out for absolutely no reason.
Delta is the #1 customer in Atlanta Hartsfield with a 72% market share. Given the level of business that generates and the size of the airport in general, the legislature in Georgia will tread lightly. I like in CLT and American has the same near monopoly of the airport. Considering American can do no wrong to our local politicans (which are much less friendly to the NRA) we see the power they have. There won't...
Delta is the #1 customer in Atlanta Hartsfield with a 72% market share. Given the level of business that generates and the size of the airport in general, the legislature in Georgia will tread lightly. I like in CLT and American has the same near monopoly of the airport. Considering American can do no wrong to our local politicans (which are much less friendly to the NRA) we see the power they have. There won't be much made of this because if Georgia truly threatened Delta it would have negative economic consequences. There is a lot of posturing here because the Governor is R and the legislature happens to be majority R at the moment. However, Georgia is trending "purple" as they say in political parlance and the backlash can go both ways. Considering a high percentage of passengers connect (like they do in Charlotte) passenger load likely won't even be affected but negative PR is negative PR. There is an open Gubernatorial race in Georgia this fall and likely be a battleground state in 2020 so people are getting their chops out. As far as the discount, most large businesses like Delta tend to steer clear of controversy like this and try to remain as neutral as possible.
@WilliamC
Hear Hear! Ladies opinions still count too :-)
Also, guys, Delta _is_ Atlanta. They're not going to move, nor are all those Georgians going to suddenly give up their Medallion status bennies to fly Spirit.
Many of you have identified a big First Amendment concern here, and you are correct. Delta's corporate right to free speech and expressive association cannot be punished by government action. The wrinkle is that the state legislature's tax policy making process would ordinarily get less careful scrutiny than, say, a law enforcement decision, because policy gets made for all sorts of stated and unstated reasons. Paradoxically, the Lt Gov's and certain legislators' public stance is...
Many of you have identified a big First Amendment concern here, and you are correct. Delta's corporate right to free speech and expressive association cannot be punished by government action. The wrinkle is that the state legislature's tax policy making process would ordinarily get less careful scrutiny than, say, a law enforcement decision, because policy gets made for all sorts of stated and unstated reasons. Paradoxically, the Lt Gov's and certain legislators' public stance is giving DL ammunition for a lawsuit, were the tax break not to pass for the stated retaliatory reasons.
OTOH, if the Lt Gov never has an upgrade clear ever again, that's just Sheena in action and no one will ever prove otherwise.
Well I Tweeted two words in reply to @CaseyCagle. Guess what they were? I am SICK and TIRED of government officials threatening businesses and politicizing the gun control debate. Enough is enough. The NRA needs to reposition or fold.
If Georgia and other states want to play hardball over this issue it’s not inconceivable that Airlines would consider moving their hubs elsewhere where tax breaks are offered without a quid pro quo. This cuts both ways.
"What do you guys think......"
Lucky, do you want to know what the ladies think as well?
Wait..
So it’s okay that a government official threathens a private company and try to force it to give discounts to members of another private organization?
I wonder what has changed in the definition of corruption...
American citizens have certain political power beyond just the "right to vote"
We also have lobbying power.
I reject protest power because that is only for weak and unemployed - scummy people
So to add myself to lobby efforts:
- I join the NRA
- I join my PAC at work
A very good friend taught me this (of course, his choice was "GreenPeace", ugh)
But, welcome to America.
Once a politician is elected by your vote, he only listens to the lobbyists ($money$)
Your country is run by thugs. It's not a democracy.
I'm no lawyer but would think that the state legislature getting into Delta's "relationship with the NRA" would be an unconstitutional interference with the freedom of association. I don't like the fact that big companies get tax breaks, but it shouldn't have anything to do with whether they offer discounts to NRA members, Sierra Club members, or anyone else for that matter.
Only in America can you lose your tax breaks for not being 100% lock-stock-and barrel behind the NRA (yes, that was intentional) but keep those tax breaks by not offering contraception to women.
Ain't America Great Again!!!!!!!!!
I do not understand the corporate virtue signaling here. All it's going to do is upset half the customers. Wish they had just maintained the status quo and not said anything.
wait...Delta gets tax subsidies? aren't they dead on against government subsidies, like all these ads against the ME3? lol.
Specifically removing discounts for the NRA while keeping them for Planned Parenthood and NARAL is "neutral"? Gimme a break, Lucky. If you are going to blog, try to be less pathetic than this.
Political leverage is not new for US transportation. Votes and lobbying are the controlling house of cards. Good example in GA w DL.
If you're a public company taking a political stance, there are repercussions -- both from the public and government. Should have thought about that before publicly stating this change in policy.
I'm wondering if this was a knee-jerk reaction initiated by maybe a marketing branch, and didn't come from the very top. You'd hope Delta leadership would take all these variables into account.
Also -- a fuel tax exemption? I thought the ME3 were...
If you're a public company taking a political stance, there are repercussions -- both from the public and government. Should have thought about that before publicly stating this change in policy.
I'm wondering if this was a knee-jerk reaction initiated by maybe a marketing branch, and didn't come from the very top. You'd hope Delta leadership would take all these variables into account.
Also -- a fuel tax exemption? I thought the ME3 were the only ones that were subsidized??!!??!?!?!?!
The government of Georgia only answers to the citizens of Georgia. If people are that mad about it in Georgia then they can vote them out next election. I am shocked Lucky you didn't attack Delta for trying to get another subsidy. This is how politics works. A conservative state is taking a stand against a company they don't agree with. We see the same things in liberal states against conservative companies. Don't know why anyone would be shocked.
aren't these guys the ones complaining about liberal microagressions and being sensitive snowflakes??
hahahahhaha the NRA owns the state government of Georgia that is actually hilarious
Gun nuts. Pathetic
banana republic
These teabagger politicians want nothing but more guns and more murder.. DISGUSTING!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
Why the heck would they get a tax break on jet fuel? Just another form of subsidy.