Just over a month ago Delta announced that they’d no longer offer discounted fares through their group travel program for those attending NRA conferences, and that they requested that the NRA remove Delta’s information from their website. This followed pressure from a lot of anti-gun consumers urging all companies to cut ties with the NRA — Delta certainly wasn’t the only company to make some changes.
Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.
— Delta (@Delta) February 24, 2018
Delta really ended up in hot water over this, though. Georgia lawmakers even repealed a tax break for Delta that could have saved them up to $50 million. I find that to be ridiculous, personally.
What’s interesting is that Delta wasn’t actually taking a side in the debate, but rather was claiming that they’d remain neutral:
Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.
This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.
Delta wasn’t saying that they’re against the NRA, but rather that they don’t support organizations that involve politically or emotionally charged issues. I can appreciate an airline not wanting to get involved in anything too controversial, though I also think companies should have backbones on some level.
For example, Delta has long been a supporter of LGBT rights, though I’d argue that for many this is still a “political” issue (and to be clear, I’m gay and I 100% appreciate and support Delta’s respect for the community). My point is that it’s a bit of a cop-out to throw your hands in the air and just say “this is controversial, so we don’t touch it.”
It looks like Delta has changed their stance on this at least somewhat. Delta said they would remain neutral in the gun debate, and that they stay out of issues like this. However, Delta donated three roundtrip charter flights to allow hundreds of students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School to go to Washington to participate in the “March for Our Lives” protest against gun violence.
Delta says that this is “part of [their] commitment to supporting the communities [they] serve.”
I commend Delta for doing this. The kids have been through a lot, and most importantly they’re doing more for an issue than adults have been able to do in years — they’re on the right side of history.
Clearly Delta has had a change of heart here, and I support that.
(Tip of the hat to View from the Wing)
@Rob I completely agree that society should focus on reducing preventable deaths. However, frankly, I think you're use of those things to support your position is a red herring... If society reduced preventable deaths in other areas, would you then support gun control? I don't think you would.
You shouldn't need to wait for a incident to occur before discussing whether people should or shouldn't have access to a type of weapon.
However,...
@Rob I completely agree that society should focus on reducing preventable deaths. However, frankly, I think you're use of those things to support your position is a red herring... If society reduced preventable deaths in other areas, would you then support gun control? I don't think you would.
You shouldn't need to wait for a incident to occur before discussing whether people should or shouldn't have access to a type of weapon.
However, I also agree that overwhelming majority of people would agree with the banning or hoops before obtaining the weapons listed. Which should be the case for any weapon that has the potential to kill multiple people in short succession.
Peace out.
@Anne, I am beginning to think that your IQ is pretty close to mine. It is such a relief to come accross your post among all the posts by these lowlife, idiotic Republicans.
Little did we know that Cheque is also a comedian! Hope he doesn’t quit his day job.
So grateful he isn’t the modest type, we would all be left in the dark. :(
To all those who think the March for Our Lives movement is deadset on trashing the Second Amendment and taking away your guns, maybe try to actually listen to them. They have been fairly savvy about advocating for common sense gun control provisions that the vast majority of Americans (Democrats and Republicans alike) agree on in poll after poll. The only reason the gun control debate gets shut down time and time again is that...
To all those who think the March for Our Lives movement is deadset on trashing the Second Amendment and taking away your guns, maybe try to actually listen to them. They have been fairly savvy about advocating for common sense gun control provisions that the vast majority of Americans (Democrats and Republicans alike) agree on in poll after poll. The only reason the gun control debate gets shut down time and time again is that the minority of Americans who oppose gun control legislation care far more about it than any other issue. There's essentially an intensity gap. Those who support gun control legislation in a poll, might not necessarily consider it a top policy priority, whereas its typically THE top policy priority for the minority of voters who don't support gun legislation, thus the more vocal and intense minority seems larger than the majority of people who focus on a number of other issues.
It's not enough to just shut down any attempt at passing reasonable gun control legislation that respects the freedoms of responsible gun owners while making it harder for guns to end up in the hands of those with mental illness or who would use them to commit harm (or even those who would use or store them irresponsibly) by saying how it wouldn't work. We've seen in country after country that gun control legislation massively reduces the number of people who die from guns (including suicides) and to not even try is insane. If you really think the proposed gun control policies are bad, instead of shooting them down, maybe propose one that will effectively reduce victims of gun violence that you can get behind. Otherwise, you are demonstrating that you don't care at all about gun violence victims.
@AJ, I am smarter than all conservatives that frequent this site. I may be the most intelligent person you know.
Well, all of this gun hating hysteria has made me realize one thing: I need to defend myself. The liberal hordes are angry. They're mostly self-righteous vegans, so really, how dangerous can they be? Sheesh, the lack of protein means they're likely about as strong as a weak willed henpecked husband, but you can't afford to be too careful, now can you? I can get a nice entry level AR-15 for around $500. If I...
Well, all of this gun hating hysteria has made me realize one thing: I need to defend myself. The liberal hordes are angry. They're mostly self-righteous vegans, so really, how dangerous can they be? Sheesh, the lack of protein means they're likely about as strong as a weak willed henpecked husband, but you can't afford to be too careful, now can you? I can get a nice entry level AR-15 for around $500. If I spend a bit more, a match level bolt and trigger assembly can be included. Heck, for a few thousand I can get a nice modern, up top date BAR! Man, I would love to have a BAR! That sucker can shoot through cinder block walls, and it was designed by John Browning during World War One! Yeah, those ARs are sooooo not dangerous in comparison. Yup, a BAR it is! Watch out, crybaby libbie vegans! I'm packing heat!
If we're getting into politics, then #MeToo: Me would like more pictures of scantily clad stewardesses. Maybe some that look like Stormy Daniels, too. Stormy Daniels in early 2000, not the washed up botox-gone-bad I saw last night.
Yes.
Cheque says "I derive pleasure by pushing on the buttons and getting all too predictable reactions from snowflake conservative white man with fragile egos."
By asking about genitalia and showcasing how dumb you can be? You really showed them.
Christallmighty, I thought for sure I was reading Breitbart comments.
So when is the conversation going back to the point were we can just say "Good on Delta to take these people to Washington for free" rather than open up the gun debate? Why does this have to be pulled so out of context?
"I’m not a conservative. I’m mostly a libertarian". Oh, bless your heart.
@ Joe - Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone yell at Lucky/Ben for expressing his first amendment rights. I did see one person say that'd prefer to avoid politics, which largely speaking is a good idea (would you be happy if Lucky went on an anti-abortion rant on this site?) as this is not a political blog and does run the risk of alienating half his audience if taken to excess (which...
@ Joe - Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone yell at Lucky/Ben for expressing his first amendment rights. I did see one person say that'd prefer to avoid politics, which largely speaking is a good idea (would you be happy if Lucky went on an anti-abortion rant on this site?) as this is not a political blog and does run the risk of alienating half his audience if taken to excess (which I certainly don't think he's done here) but its his site and he can do what he wants, of course, including turning into an ANTIFA website if he really wanted to do so. But others may exercise their first amendment rights by going elsewhere. It works both ways, which is the beauty of that amendment. It's actually helpful to lucky to have people of different POV state their opinion if his goal (within reason of course).
"But no stat in the world that you try to throw out there will convince any normal, rational, intelligent human being that having more guns does not equal more deaths. It’s a fact, and it’s unambiguous."
That's because you discount deterrence (impossible to estimate) and self-defense (difficult to estimate) to almost zero [there is a reason most of these mass shootings occur at "gun free" zones] and completely ignore the real risk historically of a tyrannical government.
@ Hutch
It's a red herring for a number of reasons. One of which is there haven't been any measurable amount of deaths in the US or otherwise from those weapons, ever. Two, nearly all 2nd amendment people would agree with banning or significant hoops to own those weapons you listed. Three, those weapons cannot be used defensively unless you are actively in a war while guns are nearly exclusively used for defense/deterrance (and hunting) by law abiding citizens. Fourth, those weapons are far more likely to cause innocent casualties than a gun is by a law-abiding citizen.
I actually have no desire to further limit cell usage or car usage or attack hospitals - my point was there are far more easily preventable deaths in significantly larger numbers than gun murders that the left is completely silent on. The goal should be to reduce preventable deaths - not an irrational obsession with a single type of death. There is nothing inherently more or less tragic in the following deaths: Gun murder, texting and driving into an 18 wheeler, medical error killing someone, drunk driving killing themselves/others, cancer from smoking, child drowning in a pool, death from medical complications from obesity, etc. They are all preventable deaths to some extent and most of them are far more easy to reduce than gun murders are - keep in mind half of gun murders are already committed by people who cannot legally own guns.
The best part of these discussions - most of which seem to be yelling at Lucky for expressing his OWN First Amendment Right - is that they remind me what hypocrites people can be.
You gun people, have your guns. I don't care. But no stat in the world that you try to throw out there will convince any normal, rational, intelligent human being that having more guns does not equal more deaths. It's a...
The best part of these discussions - most of which seem to be yelling at Lucky for expressing his OWN First Amendment Right - is that they remind me what hypocrites people can be.
You gun people, have your guns. I don't care. But no stat in the world that you try to throw out there will convince any normal, rational, intelligent human being that having more guns does not equal more deaths. It's a fact, and it's unambiguous.
Fight for your rights, all you want. But don't laden us with inane theories about why NO other country has this gun problem. We have the problem because we have more guns.
Sorry that should read “technically.” LOL- if I’m going to point out a correction, maybe I should be correct ;)
Lucky- Slight correction: Techncially the Georgia Legislature did not “repeal” a tax break during this NRA hubbub. They failed to pass it.
Also, keep a close eye on this in the coming days. As the Georgia Legislature finishes up its session, some predict that the tax break will pass in the form of a last minute rider.
@Mark
Australian here, you haven't a clue about life & gun control here but don't let it stop you making a fool of yourself.
@Richard - what is, or is not extreme, is of course subjective. And no, I do not believe that gun control will stop someone really wanting a gun. It should certainly make it harder, among other benefits. But frankly, I think the states are too far gone.
@Rob - not sure there is anything is misleading or distracting from that. They are arms, one which you (as someone else pointed out) can access in some form. What are your views on this? You've certainly commented on other aspects, like mobile phones, which could be considered red herrings. Where does society draw a line, or does it not?
I thought this was supposed to be about aviation....
Lucky, only the words I can say to you is that you are “on the right side of the history”
I hope that we do not have to lose our kids, family members, friends and ourselves because of all unexpected violations. It is only the matter of people, but we may have less unexpected events in the states if there is no gun in their hands or much hard to get guns.
I am...
Lucky, only the words I can say to you is that you are “on the right side of the history”
I hope that we do not have to lose our kids, family members, friends and ourselves because of all unexpected violations. It is only the matter of people, but we may have less unexpected events in the states if there is no gun in their hands or much hard to get guns.
I am a father of two kids and I have to check where massive violation happened every time I heard those gun-related news.
World peace and peaceful mind. That is what I want every second.
@Rob, you have a good night, too.
@ Cheque
Hah - The only people on here acting touchy (calling names, calling for violence, ffs bringing up penis size etc) are a small handful like you. The fact that I disagree with you and have laid out a large number of facts hardly makes me a snowflake. I could care less about what you think - but the fact that you respond to a post with penis size tells me you have serious...
@ Cheque
Hah - The only people on here acting touchy (calling names, calling for violence, ffs bringing up penis size etc) are a small handful like you. The fact that I disagree with you and have laid out a large number of facts hardly makes me a snowflake. I could care less about what you think - but the fact that you respond to a post with penis size tells me you have serious mental issues. Lastly, I'm not a conservative. I'm mostly a libertarian.
Have a good night.
@Rob, I derive pleasure by pushing on the buttons and getting all too predictable reactions from snowflake conservative white man with fragile egos.
Damn Jay, like killing much!?
@ Cheque
What insane world are you living in? Seek help.
@Rob, please feel free to confess how small your penis is.
@Yen4Travel
Yup - like I said - the suicide rate triples the gun deaths in your link for the US.
How would I go about reducing violence? Honestly, it wouldn't be in my top 5 things to do right now to reduce the controllable deaths in the US. There are over 300,000 people a year that die from medical errors, over 200,000 that die from obesity, over 30,000 from car accidents, 100k from alcohol,...
@Yen4Travel
Yup - like I said - the suicide rate triples the gun deaths in your link for the US.
How would I go about reducing violence? Honestly, it wouldn't be in my top 5 things to do right now to reduce the controllable deaths in the US. There are over 300,000 people a year that die from medical errors, over 200,000 that die from obesity, over 30,000 from car accidents, 100k from alcohol, tobacco and other drugs and a number of other things that have a far bigger bang for your buck in reducing loss of life.
That said, considering 1% of the population (that is, AA males between the ages of 16-25) represent half of the murders in the US, any solution to reduce gun deaths would have to start with that demographic and unfortunately due to the PC nature today, will never get discussed.
In short, culture is typically where this goes up or down, not inanimate objects.
@Cheque - I'm not a Christian, nor an NRA member and I do not have a gun in my house, but thanks for the 1) stereotype and 2) ad hominem attacks. You keep up that kind of attitude and Trump will almost certainly will re-election in 2020, though.
@ Jay - You do realize you would end up with far more deaths in the US over that than you ever would from murders, right? You also do realize something like 99.5% of gun owners never commit a crime with their guns but you think its ok to just shoot them. Wow - some of you people are literally unhinged.
Given with what is going on with BLM the last few years and historically every dictator disarms the populace before committing tyranny, I can't believe anyone wants the only people to have guns to be cops and the military.
100% agree with you Jay. I also love how the armchair crticis who have achieved nothing in their lives criticize the teens who are doing something.
This whole "there are 300 million guns, it's a fool's errand to try to get them" argument is retarded. Amend the Constitution, ban gun ownership, and send the military to collect them. You are, by default, armed so the military will likely kill you if you resist in any way. Broadcast resisting gun owners getting killed handily by Marines in the news, and watch how quickly those guns are turned over by the rest...or how...
This whole "there are 300 million guns, it's a fool's errand to try to get them" argument is retarded. Amend the Constitution, ban gun ownership, and send the military to collect them. You are, by default, armed so the military will likely kill you if you resist in any way. Broadcast resisting gun owners getting killed handily by Marines in the news, and watch how quickly those guns are turned over by the rest...or how quickly those persistent resisters are killed as well.
Lucky,
Thanks for publicizing Delta's admirable gesture of giving the NRA the cold shoulder and then flying those kids to the anti-gun demo. Here's one company taking a responsible stand. Enough thoughts and prayers BS. Your site seems to be patrolled by NRA gun-nut trolls; I'd hate to have these folks on a flight! Dangerous! It is clear that Amerikkka is in its death throes with gun nuts taking up positions near the battlements, the...
Lucky,
Thanks for publicizing Delta's admirable gesture of giving the NRA the cold shoulder and then flying those kids to the anti-gun demo. Here's one company taking a responsible stand. Enough thoughts and prayers BS. Your site seems to be patrolled by NRA gun-nut trolls; I'd hate to have these folks on a flight! Dangerous! It is clear that Amerikkka is in its death throes with gun nuts taking up positions near the battlements, the chicken hawks baiting armies that they cannot hope to beat, and the Orange Swindler leading the Charge of the White Brigade. We are all heading for Armageddon. What the hell is wrong with getting along with the rest of the world?
I really enjoy Lucky dipping his toes into politics because every time he does, I read the comments and I realize how, us liberals, are morally superior and intelligent humans compared to white trash, immoral, gun-loving, God-fearing Christian nutcases, who are tools of Trump, NRA, and the Evangelical Church. Keep up the good work fellow commenters.
@Rob
Here a list of gun homicides is included as a separate column:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I agree that suicide by gunshot is something that is best studied separately.
What would you suggest as to how to deal with the problem of gun violence?
I don’t own a gun and live in a rural area where hunting is part of the culture. I have no issue with friends and neighbors owning guns.
@Rob
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
This table separates gun homicides by country in one column. I agree that suicide by gunshot is a subset of firearms deaths and would likely have a different set of factors involved that relate to risk.
What are your ideas about what might reduce gun homicides that would not have other undesirable results?
I don’t know what happened to polite debate and open minded discussion, but I guess these comments sadly reflect modern times. I find myself centered between left and right. While I am a strong supporter of 2nd amendment rights I am also a social liberal. As someone who also authors a widely read but somewhat narrowly focused blog, I am also occasionally tempted to share my perspective on broader issues. The few times I have,...
I don’t know what happened to polite debate and open minded discussion, but I guess these comments sadly reflect modern times. I find myself centered between left and right. While I am a strong supporter of 2nd amendment rights I am also a social liberal. As someone who also authors a widely read but somewhat narrowly focused blog, I am also occasionally tempted to share my perspective on broader issues. The few times I have, I got attacked by both sides – so I have stopped.
I find Lucky refreshing and honest and while I disagree with his stance on this particular topic, I value his insight and willingness to share it on this blog. For what its worth, among these comments I find the arguments in favor of banning guns far more emotional and less rational than the few who have taken the pro-2nd amendment position.
Regarding this weekend’s teenager “activism”, unlike the marches of the 1970s this seemed more an exercise in attention seeking and self-aggrandizement (yes, I mean you David Hogg) and a staged (and paid for) media event. Do I believe that airlines, sports teams and banks should get involved in issues that are politically sensitive? Absolutely not. I am terminating all business with CitiBank tomorrow. I support banks that competently handle my financial needs, and not those that try to influence social policy. Same goes with airlines and just about any other business.
@Yen4Travel
The reason suicides should not be included are two-fold
1) It's a self choice, not an act of violence against an innocent victim.
2) More importantly - the US suicide rate is in line with western Europe, better than Eastern Europe and significantly lower than low gun crime countries like Japan, S. Korea and China
In other words, there is no correlation between guns and suicide rate globally.
The only reason...
@Yen4Travel
The reason suicides should not be included are two-fold
1) It's a self choice, not an act of violence against an innocent victim.
2) More importantly - the US suicide rate is in line with western Europe, better than Eastern Europe and significantly lower than low gun crime countries like Japan, S. Korea and China
In other words, there is no correlation between guns and suicide rate globally.
The only reason that gun grabbers include US suicides in the firearm deaths is because it literally triples the total. If you exclude suicides, the numbers do not look alarming at all.
@mark & @kris - exactly - great response to Kris - I never understand why people want to live in an echo chamber. The only ones acting like brats and throwing names around have been a handful of gun-grabbers.
God, Lucky. I didn’t realize you had so many bitter, gun-grabbing readers. Why is the moderator letting through their spoiled brat, ungrateful remarks? They’re not contributing anything to the comments.
Gun deaths include
1. Gun homicides, criminal
2. Gun homicides, self defense
3. Accidental gun deaths
4. Gun deaths when shooters are young children
5. Suicide by gunshot
There is no way for a one size fits all approach to impact all forms of gun deaths. The 90 percent lethality statistics for gun suicides mean most don't get another chance, whereas less lethal methods leave someone to consider other options after...
Gun deaths include
1. Gun homicides, criminal
2. Gun homicides, self defense
3. Accidental gun deaths
4. Gun deaths when shooters are young children
5. Suicide by gunshot
There is no way for a one size fits all approach to impact all forms of gun deaths. The 90 percent lethality statistics for gun suicides mean most don't get another chance, whereas less lethal methods leave someone to consider other options after an unsuccessful suicide attempts.
We really don't have good empirical data that looks at different kinds of gun homicides and involves aggregated crime scene behavioral analysis. Usually, interventions target relevant risk factors and look at relative risk in terms of effect sizes.
We need to examine gun safety, gun injuries, and gun deaths empirically. The overall gun death rate here relative to other developed countries suggests we have something different here.
God, Lucky. I didn’t realize you had so many bitter, gun-fanatic readers. Why is the moderator letting through their spoiled brat, ungrateful remarks? They’re not contributing anything to the comments.
Oh – the historical murder rate and the massive fall off since 1990 – hopefully you don’t think 538 is part of the NRA?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-u-s-murder-rate-is-up-but-still-far-below-its-1980-peak/
(and again, keep in mind, 50% of these are committed by 1% of the US population – AA men between 16-25 in urban cores, largely gang violence, and nearly all of which the victim is the same demo)
Guns are not the problem. Crazy people and mentally defective people are the problem. But I do support the law's being changed to require those purchasing a gun, including rifles, to be age 21 and above.
Maybe the age of majority for everybody also needs to be changed back to 21. It only went to 18 because of the war in Vietnam (and the many young people 18 to 21 dying in that useless war,...
Guns are not the problem. Crazy people and mentally defective people are the problem. But I do support the law's being changed to require those purchasing a gun, including rifles, to be age 21 and above.
Maybe the age of majority for everybody also needs to be changed back to 21. It only went to 18 because of the war in Vietnam (and the many young people 18 to 21 dying in that useless war, but many young people do not know that).
Car accidents kill more than 40,000 people a year, but I don't see big marches and hoopla to ban cars.
Australians are decades behind America.
America tried to limit gun right to our minorities and underclass decades ago.
Australia is now doing what we tried decades ago, for their underclass (aborigines, etc)
The NRA in America protected the gun rights for our underclass (blacks, etc) decades ago.
Thank God for America ... the whole world benefits. We set the example for the world.
@James Pointer
Using gun death statistics that include suicides (which are 2/3rds of the death #s you gave) is dishonest at *best*
The US has always had a significantly higher murder rate than other countries - and the total murder rate is all that matters - the gun murder rate is irrelevant - just the total murder rate. The US murder rate is ~2x Europe (which is better than it is haS historically) -...
@James Pointer
Using gun death statistics that include suicides (which are 2/3rds of the death #s you gave) is dishonest at *best*
The US has always had a significantly higher murder rate than other countries - and the total murder rate is all that matters - the gun murder rate is irrelevant - just the total murder rate. The US murder rate is ~2x Europe (which is better than it is haS historically) - however - half of the US murders are 1% of the population. IOW 99% of the population's murder rate looks just like Europe.
@ Hutch - I am not getting drawn into a red herring argument.
@Yen4Travel - there has been many studies on gun control and gun crime in the US and the correlation is actually inverse of what you suggests. Most gun crime in the US is in urban core centers with gangs and half are committed by people who can't legally own a gun anyway. Even the laws on the books aren't followed (the kid in Florida should not have been able to get a gun, the nut in Texas shouldn't have been able to if the Air Force has followed the law, etc).
The New England Patriots also provided a charter plane for the demonstration. Are they against the 2nd Amendment or do they support both the 1st and 2nd Amendment?
Many states have distracted driving laws related to texting and mobile phone use. We have made incremental changes in automotive engineering and seat belt and infant restraint devices in the name of public safety.
At some point, we will approach gun laws from an empirical basis and...
The New England Patriots also provided a charter plane for the demonstration. Are they against the 2nd Amendment or do they support both the 1st and 2nd Amendment?
Many states have distracted driving laws related to texting and mobile phone use. We have made incremental changes in automotive engineering and seat belt and infant restraint devices in the name of public safety.
At some point, we will approach gun laws from an empirical basis and look at ways to reduce harm. The NTSB investigates plane and train accidents in efforts at improving safety.
I don't understand how with the gun death rate being what it is here, that we can defend efforts to avoid looking at how to improve gun safety.
@ Hutch
Seriously, that’s the problem with most people in this country today, extremism. Man did you make a jump. Gun control only restricts acquiring legally. Do you seriously think that stops people’s from getting them. FWIW, many RPGs are acquired illegally in this country. And there’s failed legislation to prevent this. For the record, I don’t own a gun nor do I plan to.
@ Rob
Well said
@Callum
Beside your other fact...
@ Hutch
Seriously, that’s the problem with most people in this country today, extremism. Man did you make a jump. Gun control only restricts acquiring legally. Do you seriously think that stops people’s from getting them. FWIW, many RPGs are acquired illegally in this country. And there’s failed legislation to prevent this. For the record, I don’t own a gun nor do I plan to.
@ Rob
Well said
@Callum
Beside your other fact less comments, what data do you have to support your comment that most travelers are liberals?
Lastly,
Delta is choosing a side when they stopped the discount (their right, just own it) unless they list all of the other politically sensitive groups they discontinued the discount
To Rob and others who (excepting those with IQs < 100) , indefensibly, defend unnecessary guns and gun violence: I guess the statistics that show that "gun crime has dropped in half since 1990" are from the NRA. In the 5 years between 2012 and 2016, there were 33563, 33636, 33594, 36252, and 38658 respectively, deaths from guns in the US (CDC data). Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S....
To Rob and others who (excepting those with IQs < 100) , indefensibly, defend unnecessary guns and gun violence: I guess the statistics that show that "gun crime has dropped in half since 1990" are from the NRA. In the 5 years between 2012 and 2016, there were 33563, 33636, 33594, 36252, and 38658 respectively, deaths from guns in the US (CDC data). Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011.
Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher.Although it has half the population of the other 22 nations combined, the U.S. had 82 percent of all gun deaths, 90 percent of all women killed with guns, 91 percent of children under 14 and 92 percent of young people between ages 15 and 24 killed with guns.
Listen to OZisbest and look at the experience in Australia: "Anyone who thinks gun control doesn’t work is an ignorant hick."
Might I remind all of the nay sayers in the comment thread of one tiny little fact you all seem to disregard? The FIRST amendment!
This happens to be HIS blog and he is within his right to discuss absolutely anything he pleases!
Don’t like it? Bye Felicia!
@Rob - what are your thoughts on citizens acquiring missiles, fighter planes or grenade launcher?
@ Ryan - there has been plenty of mass murders/terrorism at airports in the world. And someone could easily take a gun pre-tsa lines and kill hundreds if they wanted to (or drive over tons of people in a big truck or a bomb or a number of other things)
@ OzisBest - You do realize Australia has less than 1/13 the population of the US, right? The US having one or two of these...
@ Ryan - there has been plenty of mass murders/terrorism at airports in the world. And someone could easily take a gun pre-tsa lines and kill hundreds if they wanted to (or drive over tons of people in a big truck or a bomb or a number of other things)
@ OzisBest - You do realize Australia has less than 1/13 the population of the US, right? The US having one or two of these kinds of incidents per year would be the equiv of once a decade in Australia. Do you really think should ban guns to possibly prevent a handful of deaths (arguably increase deaths in aggregate) knowing that governments have killed 100x as many people as anyone else and the first thing all tyrannical governments do is disarm the population or the "undesirable" part of the population. You distrust people to own guns but TRUST government to be the only one with them? Laughable.
Despite the media hysterics, gun deaths have long been in the decline in the US and are at historical lows. Many of the mass murders have obtained their weapons illegal already - or would have been if procedures were followed - and nearly all of these nut cases are on pharma for behavior.
To put it into perspective, these are the top causes of deaths in the US.
http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rate-statistics.php
Homicide - of any type - is just barely in the top 20 causes of death - and half of those deaths are caused by 1% of the population (killing the same demo)
The marches, sponsored by Hollywood to the tune of $3M+, appear to have been well-intentioned. But the bigger question is: What about the failure of law enforcement to act in the Parkland tragedy?
Perhaps a better use of that money would be EDUCATION -- the biggest epidemic we face. At the very least, spend it on lobbying the correct members of Congress to actually make a change in the laws.
Good God Lucky, enough with the politics.
I've always used links from this site to apply for credit cards. Maybe it is time for us to start voting with our clicks and find other referrals on sites that actually focus on travel.
All of you yanks who are against gun control. I live in Australia, we introduced gun control after a mass shooting in the 90s. All of you saying it won't make a difference, guess how many mass shootings have happened in Australia since. NONE. Gun control works, that is a simple fact and now Australia has some of the lowest gun violence in the world.
Anyone who thinks gun control doesn't work is an ignorant hick.
I like how people happily parrot the OUR FREEDOMS / SECOND AMENDMENT SLIPPERY SLOPE arguments when common sense gun legislation has worked fine at airports and on airlines forever. And the personal freedom/less regulation/smaller government argument really rings hollow from republicans since we have them to thank for the TSA.
@Lucky while I agree with the right side of history argument for LGBTQ issues I am not so sure that’s the case for gun control...good luck telling someone in Alaska they can’t own a gun. While obviously we need to fix the background check system etc....I doubt that US will suddenly get rid of guns.
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”
–Benjamin Franklin
@Callum
Here is a fun fact for you - did you know your hospital is nearly ~100x likely to kill you (not dying at a hospital - the hospital making a mistake and killing you) than you are to be killed by a gun if aren't involved in a gang - and 33x more likely even including the entire US. When I see you out protesting against these unneeded deaths in the medical industry which...
@Callum
Here is a fun fact for you - did you know your hospital is nearly ~100x likely to kill you (not dying at a hospital - the hospital making a mistake and killing you) than you are to be killed by a gun if aren't involved in a gang - and 33x more likely even including the entire US. When I see you out protesting against these unneeded deaths in the medical industry which kill more than 300,000 people a year, I'll take you seriously (murder deaths outside of people AA 16-25 is around 4500 annually).
I always Join the NRA during Democrat Administrations.
Then, I let my membership lapse when Republicans are in office, because I assume our gun rights are safe in the logical hands of logical Republican politicians.
This is the first time I re-joined the NRA during a Republican Administration.
It just seems the best way for "the little guy" to support our constitutional rights.
(... for all those right reasons that history has proven to be important)
Delta is clearly remaining as neutral as Switzerland by canceling the NRA contract but flying anti-second amendment protestors to their protest. I will soon be organizing a protest to abolish another fundamental constitutional protection in the name of safety. I wonder if delta will transport my fellow protestors against the fourth amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures? How are we supposed to stop these gun nuts if we can’t arbitrarily search their homes? It’s...
Delta is clearly remaining as neutral as Switzerland by canceling the NRA contract but flying anti-second amendment protestors to their protest. I will soon be organizing a protest to abolish another fundamental constitutional protection in the name of safety. I wonder if delta will transport my fellow protestors against the fourth amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures? How are we supposed to stop these gun nuts if we can’t arbitrarily search their homes? It’s time for progress.
We also need to discuss truck control in light of the 2016 Nice attack and spoon control in light of the obesity epidemic. Only by rolling back freedom and regulating every aspect of people’s lives can we possibly hope to achieve happiness. Airlines are an important component in the vanguard of this forward march!
@ Callum
Straight to ad hominem attacks, eh? Shows your intelligence.
Point of fact, your ignorance not withstanding, banning cars from people of a certain age is already done - it's 16 in most states meaning its illegal under 16. That could simply be raised to 21 like alcohol or any other arbitrator age to minimize the risk of death.
Second, like the above, we could easily set a legal age for mobile phones just...
@ Callum
Straight to ad hominem attacks, eh? Shows your intelligence.
Point of fact, your ignorance not withstanding, banning cars from people of a certain age is already done - it's 16 in most states meaning its illegal under 16. That could simply be raised to 21 like alcohol or any other arbitrator age to minimize the risk of death.
Second, like the above, we could easily set a legal age for mobile phones just like cars or alternatively have all vehicles installed with a scrambler that doesn't allow the use of any wireless phone access while the vehicle is in motion.
Third - banning guns does not get rid of guns. See the failed drug war for easy proof of this (and the fact that guns are available in every country on the planet).
Fourth - people that want to kill will do so - whether that is with guns, knives, bombs, trucks, airplanes or whatnot - a small % of humans have very violent tendancies. The fact of the matter is the single easiest way for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves of these nut cases is with guns. It's no surprise that every dictator in history has started by disarming the populace or target segment of the population (see blacks and guns in the US)
Additionally, gun crime has dropped in half since 1990 despite the # of guns increasing by nearly 3x in the country and the murder rate is at all time lows - despite half those murders committed by 1% of the country (against the same 1% - AA men between 16 and 25).
When you want to debate with facts, please do so. Emotional appeal and ad hominem attacks just don't work on anyone with an IQ over 100.
+1 for grrizzly. Lucky, do you really know anything about firearms and, if so, do you have any expertise on the topic? Can you estimate how many how many lives would be saved if every mass murderer were forced to use a 30-06 or a .300 Winchester rather than the AR15 that you presumably want to ban? (answer: probably none) Do you have reason to believe that a ban on firearms would be more successful...
+1 for grrizzly. Lucky, do you really know anything about firearms and, if so, do you have any expertise on the topic? Can you estimate how many how many lives would be saved if every mass murderer were forced to use a 30-06 or a .300 Winchester rather than the AR15 that you presumably want to ban? (answer: probably none) Do you have reason to believe that a ban on firearms would be more successful in the U.S. than it has been in Mexico, or that it would fare better than the so-called war on drugs? I don't need another stream-of-consciousness blog, on topics on which I probably have more knowledge and experience than you.
Political neutrality is good advice for Airlines and Bloggers.
Callum - ditto, though deploring gun violence and wanting to ban assault weapons are not unique to progressives (aka liberals).
Really this is cherry picking your issue which you believe in to be virtuous. Because Delta supports lgbt or guns they are noble and right? Get off it. I can remember when corporations were all hyping family values at the expense of gays. Bet you didn't like that? Corporations don't care, they want money. So don't count on them to be guardians of what's right.
Rob - banning mobile phones and cars is literally impossible. Restricting guns is not. You're an idiot.
Grizzly - It may harm the brand in your eyes, but it enhances the brand in others, mine included.
If it results in Trump and gun supporters leaving the site then all the better. I'd also wager that more people here are on his side then yours - in my experience frequent travellers trend more liberal and caring.
Kids in school are 300x more likely to die from texting and driving than being shot. When these kids start talking about banning cell phones or cars from teenagers then I'll take them serious. I'm always amazed that corporations ever get involved in politics. It's just bad for business.
Are you also against abortion?
@AmyOtto8
No march in front of the Broward Sheriff’s office or the FBI makes me think you don’t care about the actual failure
Talking gun control is pointless. You have to get every gun for it to work and to get every gun you will have to take them by force. In Waco, Texas in 1993 the government sent 500 law enforcement to seize the guns of the branch Davidians cult and it took a 51 day standoff and 76 out of 80 people had to be killed to ultimately end the standoff including 4 dead and 16 wounded ATF agents. And that was just 1 house. It is a fool's errand.
Most Americans are not for gun control. If they were the legislation would have already been passed. Most Americans care about world peace just as much. We want it we don't care shit if there isn't any.
Similarly for women's equality or racism or many other things though there is a lot more movement and pragmatism in that regard now.
That's why all of us are republicans in some way. There is an asshole in each off us.
Lucky, just stop the politics... only crazy people dragged that up.
@Lucky
Why do you insist on harming your brand? People read your blog because you're very knowledgeable about travel. The readers get information here that is hard or impossible to get elsewhere. But you're not offering any insight when you bring up politics. These are just hackneyed talking points that you repeat without adding any value. It is obvious that you haven't thought through the issues.
Let me give you an example. Remember when...
@Lucky
Why do you insist on harming your brand? People read your blog because you're very knowledgeable about travel. The readers get information here that is hard or impossible to get elsewhere. But you're not offering any insight when you bring up politics. These are just hackneyed talking points that you repeat without adding any value. It is obvious that you haven't thought through the issues.
Let me give you an example. Remember when a few weeks ago you mocked a "premium" travel piece that listed the best 10 business class products, the one that had the Wow Air "premium" cabin? The publication where the piece appeared definitely didn't look very professional. Your virtue-signaling about the issues that you don't know much about is like that.
That whole "right side of history" meme is soooo overworked. History is written by the victors, So whoever wins, be it the US, China, or ISIS, their side will be the right side of history, unless of course you believe in universal morality??
If so, such belief would need to transcend the common understanding of biological evolution, since otherwise only those passing on their genetic material to the next generation will be on the "right side of history."
Good for Delta for STEPPING UP AND VOLUNTEERING to help these young people express their outrage on this issue!!!!!!!!!
STOP THE GUN NUTTERS IN TEH USA!!!!!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!
@P A - what do you mean by “Delta was blackmailed...”? Curious to understand your perspective.
"on the right side of the history"
Delta was blackmailed into 'donating' those seats.