The Wall Street Journal reports on how United Airlines and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) are investigating how a passenger gained access to the cockpit of a flight at cruising altitude, in violation of the company’s policy, as well as FAA regulations. Thanks to @xJonNYC for flagging this.
Continue reading: United In Trouble Over Unauthorized Inflight Cockpit Visitor
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I saw this and honestly thought the video was created... it was heavily edited and I am not even sure the connection the person that posted it had to the situation.
If United believes there is validity to the video, this is exactly as serious as the reasons laid out in the article.
As with every incident, there are lots of good, rules-abiding employees at a company but this type of thing wounds those efforts in a heartbeat.
As much as some people will resist hearing it, I think the FAA is going to use this to find serious faults in UA's operations and UA will be far more significantly impacted than many people imagine.
Not good at all at any airline but as you pointed out *particularly* at United right now. The idiocy of allowing it and then having it posted is truly blind-boggling. Again, may not be true but if so… ouch!
The railroad unions pushed hard against the installation of inward-facing cameras in locomotive cabs, but incidents such as the Metrolink head-on collision in Chatsworth, CA in 2008 brought the NTSB to strongly recommend them. They now come installed on new locomotives as the industry standard across the US, although they are only *required* by the FRA on passenger locomotives and cab cars. The latest generation stream the data more or less live.
I know this has come up for cockpits in the past and the unions have voiced concerns, but incidents like this, the recent realization that both pilots were asleep on Batik Air, etc, are likely to raise the idea once again.
I’ve always said if you have nothing to hide, the footage will only help exonerate you. I’ve spent many hours of my life watching locomotive engineers pick their noses and eat snacks… (not usually at the same time, but…). In accident investigations it has been crucial to prove the engineer was in fact alert, watching the rails, etc.
Maybe United was trying to copy Aeroflot? An Aeroflot Airbus A310 crashed when a pilot's son sat in the captain's seat and caused the plane to stall and crash. Everyone died.
My math professor at Berkeley once got a photo of himself at the controls in a cockpit of a United plane LOL. Wouldn’t have made the news at the time
My professional guess is these pilots confused Part 91 relocation flights with Part 121 charter flights, but either way no one else other than PIC and SIC should be at the controls, not even an FA. United's FOM may also not allow part 91 flights to have visistors
When I worked for a carrier in the 70s through 2002, I frequently was invited to the cockpit as the crew knew me. However, there are probably new rules following 9/11
In the air while cruising? It’s very common to allow visitors before and after flights.
There's always been a huge disconnect between what a corporate spokeperson says for PR purposes vs what actually happens at the ground level.
If all these companies and airlines were really that dedicated to supporting their customers, we wouldn't have these nightmare stories on the plane or airport all the time.
United saying it cares about safety does nothing. It's just another billion dollar corporation parroting some nonsense.
That's what cops say. If you have nothing to hide, you will also submit to an illegal search, right? How would you feel about cameras and microphones recording you doing your job 24/7?
Ever grown tired of all these "human" error?
Time to remove humans from the cockpit.
#1 I was talking about cops using that phrase to get ignorant people to give up their rights.
#2 No they don't. They can pretty much turn them off any time.
It's not a 9/11 issue, as the Twitter poster is complaining about. This is a private charter. (The rules and United OpsSpec's aren't different, but as a practical matter I'm not outraged by a known member of a private charter group being allowed to sit in the jumpseat or whatever at cruise, although it's still a violation.) But on a Part 121 airline at cruise, to allow someone IN THE CAPTAIN'S SEAT is nuts. That the FO doesn't seem to be concerned about this being a legitimate safety issue is going to cause the FAA to murder United over this. (You get fined the most not just when employees screw up, but when they collectively don't realize the violation is even occurring. The biggest fine every levied at the time came years ago when an AA DC10 was pushing from the gate, and an AA mechanic explained to the FAA inspector he was talking to that they had gotten her out on time by sending someone to a local hardware store for a transducer spring (exact same spring, except untagged). Of course, using a non-tagged part was prohibited, and the massive fine was because the mechanic didn't seem to think his ingenious fix was a problem.)
Is this a surprise? With all these negative news about United latetly..it has become a normality.. for the worst!
I am waiting for the next catastrophes..I mean issues!!
When I was a child, I often flew on super constellations and other amazing flying machines. The pilots were often a bit tipsy, and because my family flew a lot, I was often invited into the cockpit.
I believe it’s true because UA has become an airline I NO longer know. As a Shareholder & an Employee I feel we NEED to have a change from the top down & I am no wondering WHEN The UA B.O.D. is going to start to realise this BEFORE he results in something MUCH worse….
Michael Crichton wrote a book called "Airframe," which is loosely based on the Aeroflot event you cite here. Good, quick read if you're ever looking for a fun book.
Many foreign carriers allow guest in the cockpit. I was invited to the cockpit for the final 20 minutes of flight and landing on a JNB-to-XXX segment last year. As an avgeek it was a dream come true.
This is ok but it's a safety issue if someone stands in the galley waiting for the restroom.
Jump seat / cockpit visits regulations are excessively restrictive, but they got that way due to some *very* bad stuff over 20 years ago. As a passenger this makes me feel better. As someone that greatly misses his visits to the pointy end while in the military, I can relate to the coach. Many fond memories - the view is out of this world. But jump seat and cockpit access policy is very well known. I feel bad for both pilots. They'll probably be flying for Jet Blue sooner rather than later. Unless they end up flippin' burgers instead.
While this is true, how many allow guests to sit in the Captain or First Officer's seat while the aircraft is at cruising altitude? That seems to be the main issue here, in addition to how the pilots are breaking the rules of their airline and the FAA, and how it doesn't seem to be an issue for them.
I've also been invited into the cockpit while the aircraft was in the air on foreign airlines. However, I was never allowed to sit in the pilot's chair (for obvious reasons). But having a view from the cockpit while in-flight is definetly an incredible thing, and something I absolutely loved and will never forget as an avgeek.
Normally for people known to the crew ie staff or family of. It is prohibited in US airspace.
First, it's a Part 121 flight. Period. Can't be 135 (too many seats) and can't be 91 (revenue and schedule).
14CFR 121.547 is pretty clear on this. See specifically (c) "(c) No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except—..." and the list of exceptions seems to be missing "or be a coach of a team of athletes."
Bad on the PIC.
Last year I was flying Business from AMS-LAS with KLM. About 1 hour before landing I saw the captain walk back to economy and return with I assume were his parents and their carry on luggage. They went into the cockpit and didn't emerge until after landing in LAS. Was this not allowed? I didn't think anything of it and trusted the captains decision.
Mantis, being on camera at work is not the same as an unreasonable search and seizure.
Most people, from bank tellers to Burger King cashiers, are on camera at work all day every day. Like it or not, being filmed at work has just become part of life.
Correct, the issue is not necessarily whether this particular incident is safe or not, it's that it is clearly against the airlines standard operating procedures. Having individual pilots decide what SOPs they do and don't follow IS unsafe.
I watch Air Disaster Investigation series and see how human error can cause the deaths of passengers just because the rules were flouted. A sterile cockpit is just that. Why break a rule? Open cockpits are long gone. We want safety!
Exactly what were they thinking? The only thing I love about this whole thing is the dumb masses that think they have to post EVERYTHING they do from bathroom habits to unauthorized entry into an airline cockpit. The the pilots should be punished in accordance to FAA rules and whatever United throws at them. There goes their "Wright Master Pilot" award, that's for sure! Ignorance can be fixed...stupid is forever.
"Excessively restrictive"? Damn straight and they should be. Being a flight instructor for a major airline, everyone allowed in the cockpit is a crew member regardless of position within the company. Only those with CAS and know the operational rules are allowed in the cockpit jump seats or pilot seats. That is the way it is supposed to be. Cockpit access is NOT for the casual rider.
The only Part 91 flights that I have been on is when delivering an aircraft from the factory to the airline's base. Once the aircraft is "signed on" to the property, it then becomes a Part 121 aircraft.
The video at the top of this article is pretty much correct. Although I don't teach the 757, I've ridden (legally!) in the cockpit. The video is real. Buh bye pilots
Once again, the USA is living in terror and fear.... On many recent flights (LH , ANA, and Swiss), siting in first, I observed the Captain/First Officer go to the rest room.... No barricades in the front of the plane, Flight Attendants didn't have to go into the Cockpit, Food was brought into the flight deck during the flight... The USA perpetuates this 9/11 siege mentality ad naseum....
I hope this is some kind of “fake” video but I don’t think it is. Assuming it is real the worst part is, that unless there was a fifth person in the cockpit, it appears to me that the female captain is the one recording the incident. I’m just dumbfounded by that.
Does this not normally happen on charter flights? I feel like if someone is hiring someone to perform a job, they should be able to have a look and see. As long as there are no safety risks or mandates involved.
United is becoming a regular on the A block of the national news; this story got them there tonight
Looks like UA will have 2 job openings very soon, get your resumes in.
I've got to say that even if I were offered that chance to sit in the Captain's chair I'm not sure I'd take it. Just the stress of doing something wrong....
If you follow the Rockies, the batting coach has already driven the team into the ground. . .
I remember the 70s and 80s when visitors were welcomed. Nothing unusual happened. I think the concern level now is set too high. No, no kids were trying to fly jets, and we were always warned with kindness and humour to not touch anything. Multiple airlines.
Airframe was based on the China Airlines 006 incident in 1985, not Aeroflot. Agree though, a good read.
I'm thinking that coach has got to be feeling bad right now, for getting two highly trained pilots fired. Why does everyone have to post everything on the worldwide web?
It's not strange. Before 9/11/2001 many airlines allowed visitors to the flight deck to chat with the pilots. Including myself as an aviation afectionado. But that was with a foreign airline and before 9/11.
Could be the FO felt pressure from the Capitan to allow the visit. The FO doesn't say much. The Capitan could have been a baseball nut and wanted to impress the coach.
Still, as a professional, the Capitan knew better and there are consequences. The union can only mitigate the penalty.
I don’t see the big deal the team chartered the plane every one on the plane was with the team that is customer service the man in the seat was not touching anything they were supervised to many people not minding their own business
They are not getting fired, probably what they call in the industry "Beach Time". Leave without pay. And fine and violation from FAA.
None of those airlines lost airplanes, crew, and passengers on 9/11. The US airline industry gets threats every day, and so they MUST maintain a secure stance. And you should hear the measures El Al Airlines takes!
Only issue is that this happened within US now, and got captured on video. Had this happened say in Europe, this would be a non-story.
Unfortunate that this will likely have significant career repercussions on those involved.
A total non-issue. Unless everyone is automatically considered to be a criminal. Shame on people complaining about this.
This is just bad judgement on the crew's part. I understand wanting to be accommodating to the passengers, but they went too far by letting this person actually sit in the captains seat. A discreet peek into the cockpit would have been something that probably wouldn't raise eyebrows, but this guy was seriously close to the controls.
It seems as if the female captain is also actually doing the filming for the guy in her left seat… the captain should be immediately fired as well as the co pilot for not speaking up! I lost 30 friends on 9-11
Big Deal! Let people enjoy flights, there are too many Karens & people from Spirit Airlines in Florida ruining the atmosphere.
It's a charter for goodness sakes!
The same crew has them all season and the cockpit door is always open during charters - according to many crews who fly charters.