Two United Airlines flight attendants filed a lawsuit against the airline yesterday in California, alleging that United takes a ”despicable” approach to staffing sports team charter flights.
Continue reading: United Airlines Being Sued For Staffing NFL Charters With “Attractive” Flight Attendants
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
@Bob any amount of research into Hooters and you will learn about the bona fide occupational qualification that allows them to hire that way. Same reason strippers get hired the way they do. These are flight attendants not strippers for pro athletes. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised if these requests were made by the team. These flights can get kind of rambunctious sometimes. I think this is fundamentally wrong and hope that it does go to trial (cause if it settles this practice won’t changes)
I remember reading about NFL charters, and usually those who have worked the charters prior are the once assigned these gigs for the reason they know the ins and outs of this since this needs to work to a T.
Here's a news report about an NFL charter for Tampa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke8GJVU4duY
Assuming what the two FAs claim is correct, I still don't see how this constitutes a lawsuit. They did not get a contract saying they will be guaranteed assignments on these flights, right?
Disgruntled, probably obese grannies can’t stand when younger FAs get to serve attractive athletes...
Because of guys like BOB, women keep being harassed and disrespected everyday at work in the US.
This does not surprise me at all in a country that elects a pig to the White House.
FabinhoBP; entitled, superficial and delusional people deserve that "pig" president. You worship war criminals like Obama and Clinton and then get baffled when Trump is elected. I am glad you got the President that you truly deserved. Besides, there is no contractual agreement that entitles flight attendants to serve on NFL charter flights. I can't help but agree with Endre. the truth hurts.
Sounds like ME3 where they typically get rid of FA's after they hit 30 years of age.
MKLDH says:
September 12, 2020 at 9:39 am
Assuming what the two FAs claim is correct, I still don’t see how this constitutes a lawsuit. They did not get a contract saying they will be guaranteed assignments on these flights, right?
>>> Correct but nor did they sign a contract that banned them from working on charter flights.
Endre says:
September 12, 2020 at 9:42 am
Disgruntled, probably obese grannies can’t stand when younger FAs get to serve attractive athletes…
>>> What a disgusting comment. It's comments like that that emphasise the need for anti discrimination laws.
I wonder if "preferred" flight attendants were also friends or family members of people inside the organization either players, coaches, or management. I could see organizations wanting to have their family/freinds at the game use this as a vechile to get them there. Sports contracts can have some interesting clauses in them I could see a player or coach working something like this into it.
There used to be a saying: The customer is always right. That has changed. It’s now: The customer is always racist (and my employer condones it) therefore, I can sue.
This practice is quite common across the industry for these types of charters. When sports teams charter planes they can specify specific crew members, catering, etc. I’ve even seen cases where specific pilots were requested. Some airlines even reconfigure their cabins specifically for these charter contracts. The team have a lot of leeway in demanding exactly what they want.
Hardly despicable. Putting the hotties on these flights makes sense. Generally I'd like United to have younger, more physically attractive and more servile cabin crew.
Let’s be honest people.
The world prefers attractive, young people.
Is it right? No. But don’t lie to yourself about what the world is and isn’t.
The truth is attractiveness plays a huge role in opportunity whether you like it or not.
Can these women sue, sure, but going against a company’s lawyers is going to be quite a task especially when your trying to make An entire company look bad for hiring young “attractive” women.
There will be a lot of older men in that court room (again, how the world has been set up) and as i can tell you from my own personal experience being dark skin, people have real preferences and biases and there’s only so much that can be done.
Making an argument for David Dao’s situation, easy. Most logical people will
tell you United was clearly in the wrong, but go ahead and convince the public a company is bad for placing young attractive women around high paying clients. It’s nothing new in any industry and wether it sounds harsh or hurts your feelings quit acting like the world should be a certain way when we know it never will be.
Young attractive women have the upper hand that’s why you gotta use your youth while you have it.
You can idealize all you want but attractive people will never go out of style or favor that’s how the world works. Get real.
How funny! I would have sued them if they staffed with UGLY flight attendants..and lets face it..most on UNITED ARE
Northwest used to do a lot of sports charters (and even had a 727 subfleet set up during NBA season). Mike is right in that the customer has a lot of leeway in specifying staffing for the flights. The NBA charters at Northwest had a subset of flight attendants that were allowed to staff those trips, and could be de-selected by the customer at any time, for any reason. The AFA contract will govern how the airline is allowed to staff charters but my guess is these trips are not required to show up on open time / be bid out by seniority.
Sports charters are handled very differently than military charters... I'm not going to get into the specifics, as it's not the public's business how sports charters are handled. They have no ground for their lawsuit.
It's funny to see these senior flight attendants complaining about discrimination based on age, while they seem perfectly okay with the union they work for discriminate against younger flight attendants. They want their cake and to eat it too. There's always a selfish agenda behind all these "causes" - one party is always trying to tilt the playing field in their favor. No different with these social justice causes.
At least Patriots aren't involved in this one - nice to have their own plane. Actually, two of them - 767-300ERs if I remember correctly.
When I stayed at the Rio in Vegas once, I asked about why all their drink servers and dealers seemed to be similarly "attractive"? They explained to me that there were a lot of customer complaints that servers and dealers in Vegas kept their positions based on seniority so they weren't as "attractive" anymore. So the Rio decided to add a small requirement of an occasional dance-entertainment routine that they would participate in. This introduced certain job requirements that allowed them to staff servers and dealers as dancers! 😉 This is how they could differentiate themselves from other properties.
I have never understood men who feel the need to tell some strangers about how attractive they find other strangers.
Nobody except other weirdos like you is interested in hearing who makes you horny when you look at them.
Such an unsettling character trait.
Chris C. I hope these old bags get out to pasture, and not only lose their suit they should lose their jobs sueing their carrier for no real reason during a pandemic. They are just looking to make a quick buck and made because they couldn't get a nice hotel and game tickets. Well the NFL flights are demanding and would only want attractive people to be allowed where the TV cameras might see them. Also the customer is the one who pays the bills donof course theycan request cabin crew with experience with their flights. Hollywood does the same thing you dont want employees fawning over the talent. Old Bag Flight attendants and Unions who keep them flying are the reason many US Carriers aren't as competitive the seniority system also puts the oldest flight attendants on the lobgest flights since they pay more and they only work one turn a week or a few turns a month. But these old attendants don't even know the new technology on most flights and give a tired and lazy service. Just like pilots they should age out these old bags. men and women. nothing sexist about not wanting a 70 or 80 year old trying to open the emergency doors. Anyways wake up to the world we live in. not everything is fair and these women suing their airline during a panademic are the worst kind of people in this world .
“According to the lawsuit, flight attendants working these charter flights earn more, and are provided with better accommodations. They also sometimes get tickets to games, and “extremely valuable” infield passes.”
Interesting they would reference this when, according to most companies’ ethics and compliance guidance (and United’s as well), gifts of this value cannot be accepted by an employee.
So now it is wrong to be white, wrong to be Christian, wrong to be conservative, wrong to be independent, and wrong to be pretty. Let’s cancel pretty people.
This is why we should have little sympathy for U.S. flight attendants. In Europe most flight attendants are in their 20s and early 30s and move on to other careers better suited for raising a family. Even though there are unions, flight attendants in Europe tend to want to carry their weight and not embarrass themselves in front of their coworkers. That’s the opposite of what they do in the United States. Hospitality jobs in Europe are usually filled by the nice looking people at the front desk and airplane cabins because they interact with passengers/guests and looks pacify. We have the opposite here. Now ugly flight attendants are pushing for quotas.
"Age, race, ancestry and gender". But where does it say you can't discriminate on "good looks"? We are constantly bombarded with ads, marketing, TV and movies that feature goods looks and that is what many customers want. The sad part is the folks that sue and the slime bar that represents them will likely continue to collect something.
I agree that the customer gets to pick who they want in their flights
I believe if you are pass the age off 55 just retire with dignity
Reality is no one really wants to see their granny serving them is sad and in poor taste
If you are fat same standard regardless of age
I applaud these 2 senior F/A’s & hope they are successful.
I wonder why this isn’t handled in the union contract? The charters should ABSOLUTELY be based on seniority.
If the F/A’s can work scheduled flights, they should have the ability to work the charters. The organization chartering the flights should have the ability of selecting catering & even cabin configuration but should have no say in selecting who works the flight. I hope they are successful!
@Lucky give me a break. Even you say the service is typically better from younger FAs than the attendants with seniority. What if team players/staff met the requested FA’s on personal flights then put them on the preferred list? Is that okay?
One surmises that the benefits they claiming to be missing out on tickets, invites, accommodations are a direct result of the attractiveness of the women in question, thus if the flights were to be staffed by unattractive crew with seniority, the invites to join them later at the game would not occur.
So unless they can sue a man (or indeed a lesbian) that tips an attractive female waitress in a bar saying they legally owe everyone in the establishment the same. I don’t see this going anywhere.
Well the bottom line is that teams pay for it and like privet jets can request what they like , no disrespect to the senior fa but everything has it's time
These NFL teams are doing it all wrong. They need to start chartering from the Middle East carriers. Onboard bar and showers. Not to mention Svetlana and her other tall, blonde, blue eyed colleagues who just left their modeling careers to see the world. The NFL teams would never charter a US airline ever again!
On one hand, if the union has negotiated contracts that give flight assignments based on seniority, I get their complaint. On the other hand, I completely understand a team's preference for attractive flight attendants and an airline's desire to make their customers happy. I too would prefer attractive flight attendants, all else being equal. But we as a society are better off being fair to the extent that this is possible.
I’m surprised the Union hasn’t stepped in and worked this out. Where is Sarah Nelson on this issue? Maybe the Union approved this arrangement? In any event, I have a friend who is a FA and she hated doing sports charters so not every FA is fighting to get these slots.
The Jewish woman mentioned in the article is a long time Bears fan from Chicago. So obvious lol
I was running a group of 12 doctors and occassionally a young patient asked for specific physician and I suspect in some cases based on looks or personality and I never questioned their choice and the reason. Just wondered because I am leaning in favour of the litigants here but with some hesitation.
@Jackson "So now it is wrong to be white, wrong to be Christian, wrong to be conservative"
Bwahhhh!!! Snowflake alert!!!!
I'm not sure of the procedures at United, but at Delta, most pro sports teams interview the Flight Attendants to see who would be a good fit to work their flights, and then those FAs work every charter for the season (there's usually 1-2 FAs that are designated as back-ups as well that are also chosen by the team).
For college, I think there was a general pool, but again it was subject to an interview process and assignments weren't out on an open bid for any FA to go for.
As noted, the sports team charters aren't your everyday runs - teams want everything to be done to a T; this includes stuff like knowing what drinks each person likes, so that when they get on the plane, there's no asking - it's simply delivered. Catering is also unique in that most of the stuff isn't done in flight kitchens, but is delivered from local restaurants. Given the amount of money teams pay for these charters, they want the same crew staffing it for all their needs.
I think in many companies senority determins many things, such as vacation picks, job upgrade opportunities (if qualified), last to go in times of layoffs etc. Unless airlines have as a policy "catagories of value" for FAs as pretty, average, and homely, all FAs should by senority be given the choice to accept or reject assignments to sports charter flights.
United needs to be transparent about their staffing policies for sports charters.
Humans are among rare species where female use make up, figures etc to be attractive to men who may exhibit power, wealth, intelligence etc. Just look at peacocks, cardinals and birds in Galapagos and their counterparts. In many species males stay back to tend to offspring and females go for the food. I think humans are slowly moving there and reversing the trend. Good
If what the flight attendants are alleging is true then their disagreement should be with the sport teams who are making these demands, and not with United who is simply fulfilling what the customer has requested.
Should film companies, Hollywood producers and agents be sued for promoting and casting attractive actors (e.g. Brad Pitt) and actresses (e.g. Scarlett Johansson) ahead of other equally talented but less attractive-looking candidates?
Delta has no union for their flight attendants so they can choose who they want. United is union (AFA). and they have a contract with the airline A grievance can be filed only if there is a financial or contractual discrepancy. If the flight attendants get more pay for the job then it must go to the senior bidder. You don’t have to like it you just have to follow the contract. That contract cuts both ways.
Oh, the comments on this thread...
"Should film companies, Hollywood producers and agents be sued for promoting and casting attractive actors (e.g. Brad Pitt) and actresses (e.g. Scarlett Johansson) ahead of other equally talented but less attractive-looking candidates?"
No. Title VII and corresponding state laws have an express exception for this: the "bona fide occupational qualification" exception.
"If what the flight attendants are alleging is true then their disagreement should be with the sport teams who are making these demands, and not with United who is simply fulfilling what the customer has requested."
United is the employer with the obligation to say to the customer "no, this violates federal and state law." Just because there is a request and a contract doesn't make it legal. Heard of murder-for-hire?
"I was running a group of 12 doctors and occassionally a young patient asked for specific physician and I suspect in some cases based on looks or personality and I never questioned their choice and the reason."
This is not an employer making hiring or promotion decisions on a prohibited basis (race, sex, religion, national origin). The patient isn't the doctor's "employer" within the meaning of Title VII.
"So now it is wrong to be white, wrong to be Christian, wrong to be conservative, wrong to be independent, and wrong to be pretty. Let’s cancel pretty people."
Under Title VII, it's been illegal to discriminate in employment on the basis of race, sex, _RELIGION_, and national origin since 1964. Surely you are not suggesting repealing Title VII, and allowing Christians to be fired for being Christian.
Political beliefs are not generally protected, unless they are by state or local law, or by some other means (i.e., you work for a government agency and have limited First Amendment protections outside of work time; you have a union CBA that covers political speech; etc.)
Also, not doing your job is not protected. But being pretty is not a BFOQ for serving drinks and evacuating a plane in a crash. It's just not.
"It’s funny to see these senior flight attendants complaining about discrimination based on age, while they seem perfectly okay with the union they work for discriminate against younger flight attendants. They want their cake and to eat it too. There’s always a selfish agenda behind all these “causes” – one party is always trying to tilt the playing field in their favor. No different with these social justice causes."
Union seniority rules, bargained for under their CBA, are another exception to Title VII unless they are used intentionally to discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion or national origin. But the union cannot otherwise bargain away discrimination law. Title VII doesn't cover age; the Age Discrimination in Employment Act does, and I assume without Googling that it also has a union seniority rule carve out if an older worker (over age 40) has less seniority than a younger worker and is replaced by operation of the seniority rules.
Discrimination against the young is broadly legal, because old people write the laws and vote.
“Given the amount of money teams pay for these charters, they want the same crew staffing it for all their needs.”
Margins are low. Most teams are cheap. Hence, American dropping out 3 years ago and United reducing because revenues higher flying commercially. They are desperate these days, but this isn’t a cash cow.
Fair point about seniority as reverse age discrimination: Would the senior flight attendants give up a seniority ranking system to work on these charter flights? I think not. Can’t they let young people have a little fun?
Flying business class internationally I’ve had a variety of flight attendants, but you usually see a cabin crew skewing much older like beyond middle age. To be honest it does not feel luxurious having a retiree serve you. It makes me think, geez our employment system is so messed up we work people till their end.
I am rooting for United on this one. Life isn't always "fair" in everyone's opinion. Face it: we are surrounded by industries utilizing young, and attractive people promoting products and services. That is just the way it works and seems to be allowable not withstanding anti-discrimination restrictions.
Do women discriminate when they won’t go out with the man stocking the shelves at Walmart? What is wrong with him? He can certainly buy a hot dog meal for them both.
Is that OK?
See, it works two ways, Folks.
When you hire a Real Estate agent is it discriminatory to not hire the high school graduate to sell your property? How dare you discriminate because he is young and inexperienced! He needs to make a sale too!
@FabinhoBP
I know Bill Clinton is from Arkansas but why are you calling him a pig because he went to the White House?
@Mark G - You are correct in your assumption. I know a lot of FAs and because of mergers and bankruptcies their pensions are shot to Hell and many are trying to hang on until 70 to get extra Social Security. Trust me, they do not want to be working but have expenses just like the rest of us. I think after the dust settles on the current COVID downsizing, many will have taken buyouts and will be gone which is what I’m hearing from friends at AA and DL.
Discrimination laws don’t speak to “looks, attractiveness, ugliness, etc.”. They speak to race, creed, religion, etc.
Seems reasonable that a customer that throws this much business United’s way should be allowed to express such preferences.
But my question, which no one has touched on, is why, on teams where minority players are the majority, would blondes be preferred, rather than young and attractive FAs of their own races/ethnicities.
I wish United could fire these 2 flight attendants. They should be happy they have a job overall instead of wasting time on trying to interfere with higher management descisions.
Nothing wrong with Hollywood using attractive and bankable actors/actresses, but what is wrong is is the never ending persistency of whitewashing.
Pretty sure the concern is that if they staff the flights with unattractive women or use men that the sports teams will take their business elsewhere. Doesn't sound like the blame here is 100% with United. Sounds like the blame is at least partially with these professional sports teams.
I was a F/A for United 2000-2007. This has been a long standing practice. Male flight attendants were never allowed on these charters. The F/A's that staffed the trips would choose any new F/A needed and then tell the Sports organization who to put on the list.
Then the Gay Games came along in Sydney and I personally knew the gay games organizer with United. He asked me how flight attendants were chosen and I told him I thought he could choose. He asked United and they told him that was not allowed and they would be staffed with charter flight attendants. Same thing happened with the Beijing Olympics NBC charters.
I know a couple guys that fly with baseball charters now, but they were put on the list.
I'm surprised the Union allows this, but most flight attendants have just accepted this is how it works.
I've worked quite a few sports charters over the years. I loathe them except for the leftover free food and sometimes alcohol that we get to take home. They were always assigned to me on reserve. I know one of the flight attendants who is suing although I haven't seen her in about 5 years. Someone speculated she may be fat and ugly. She's actually quite attractive, thin, elegant, and an excellent customer service-oriented flight attendant; not one of the bad apples, or at least she was 5 years ago.
I'm not sure exactly how sports charters are assigned although each flight has a charter coordinator overseeing it. Occasionally, they show up in open time for people to pick up. Occasionally they are assigned to reserves. And I know two women who were assigned to a specific team for the season. They'd been working flights for this team for several years. It surprised me as they were both chubby, middle aged, suburban mothers. One of them told me they'd interviewed for the position and were chosen by someone from the team. The flight attendant suggested to me that they were chosen specifically because they were chubby middle aged sports fans and that they thought some of the wives of team members had a say in who was chosen. I do not know of any men who have ever worked professional sports charters, but they sometimes work college team charters.
The story needs to be read in the context of recent coverage of an unnamed NFC team's sexist management. It's not a secret, they are the one in Washington D.C., they just don't have a name because the incompetent owner who said he would never change the name, decided to do it but hasn't announced a new one. Several executives and coaches have "retired" suddenly.
Who is covering this besides Bloomberg? The story came out late Friday, after most people had gone home. Let's wait for reaction from the union, and from the league. The story will have legs, just not the kind that oglers like to see in skirts.
Again, most of the teams don’t have a choice. This isn’t particularly lucrative for airlines. Hence, American stopping altogether. Dolphins for example use Atlas because their are the very competitive and provide a 747.
So if determined to be age discrimination or settled as such it is on the airlines (United).
I work for a major airline and the sports teams interview and select the group of flight attendants that will work exclusively on their charters. I would say the majority of the flight attendants selected are not the youngest or hottest, but are good at and enjoy their job, and are highly regarded by customers and coworkers. Team managers do not want drama, and neither do the player’s spouses. When these athletes are traveling to/from a game, they are generally quiet and introspective, tuned out to their surroundings and sleeping or listening to music. Sorry to disappoint, but it’s not a wild bachelor party at 35,000 feet.
And the elephant in the room is ignored by virtually everyone except @Paulz. The fact that the NFL presents itself as being super supportive of wokeness. In the NFL alternate reality world, you can support diversity and BLM and other trendy fads as long as you can still get tits n' ass on the plane away from prying eyes. Let the hyprocrisy sink in.....
JM and Brad above confirmed what I thought. I love women just as much as any straight guy, but I would not want any distractions before a game if I was an athlete at the professional level. And with hundreds of millions on the line, would you want your players messing around with bimbos before a game? The NFL season is not that long. Plenty of opportunities to mess around with women during the off season.
Donna says “Trust me, they do not want to be working“ — yep, we totally agree and certainly feel that most of the time flying with US3.
@ChrisC: here, take a tissue...
If there are no sexism exclusions in the contract then you think it’s cool @lucky ? Because that is what you seem to be insinuating. If this is true (and I won’t be surprised with corporate culture in these ancient companies) then there should be a big lawsuit and media coverage, that’s is the only way for change
What John and Stanley said. Why is sexism still something the average American doesn’t care about? And especially coming from you lucky a gay guy the uncaring and “contract” words is very disappointing
United got around to issuing a statement that plays a shell game -- instead of data for just NFC flights, they give statistics for all sports charters, including NCAA (where presumably the schools aren't so interested in young blondes).
Let’s not be overly hypocritical about this... if you were to choose between disgruntled, job-hating obese hags or eager, young, somewhat attentive FAs, you wouldn’t pick the former over the latter — no matter how quick you are to call out ageism, sexism and discrimination.
@Ham:
I spit out my food reading your comment because I had to laugh so hard. Clearly you have never played sports and you probably live in some dream world. These are young, very qualified athletes. They can party and play around tons before games. Coaches prefer it not happen but it constantly does. Look up stories online.
If the Team asked for "hot young blonde women or men" they are paying, and they will get it. Sorry.
The FA's have no suit unless something in their contract comes to light. They were not denied, just not selected. I'm not saying its right or wrong...but the company is paying.
@Endre "if you were to choose between disgruntled, job-hating obese hags or eager, young, somewhat attentive FAs"
Yes, those are basically the only two options. Nothing in-between.
The chartering party gets to choose whomever they want to work on their charter flight.
The usual union rules for scheduled flights for the public do not apply in this situation.
These 2 "aggrieved" women and their attorneys have no legal leg to stand on. And they know it.
This lawsuit is nothing more than "Grandstanding".
End of story.
I’ve only flown one of these NFL charters and was rolling my eyes at the FA dynamic. Young, “attractive“ and thought they were all very very special. One trip was enough for me.
The bottom line is >>> if a sports team charters an airplane, as always, they have a say who they want to be on the flight. Many of these fa's are hand-picked by the teams. If an entity is going to pay top-dollar to charter an airplane, it's their right to choose whom they want working it. Very simple. Small world problems people.
Rooting for United. Enough of this politcial correctness. The sports Teams are paying and should get what they want. If the union gets involved and supports the stand of these 2 flight attendants, the teams should just take their business to Delta.
So you have the commenters here saying "the teams get to pick." Then you have United issuing a statement that “Importantly, flight attendant eligibility to work a charter flight is based solely on performance and attendance and has nothing to do with age, race or gender.”
Which side is lying?
it's funny how the male fa's could care less about these sport charters... leave it to the women to make a big issue about it... lol
@Brad makes a really good point and the fact that he works in the industry really gives his comment more weight in my eyes. Thanks for weighing in. I never thought of the dynamic of the player's spouses, but the lightbulb went on for me when I read what you said about them. I can imagine that they would not want a bunch of hot, prancing babes there for their ultra-high testosterone husbands.
Of course they would want to staff the flight with young and attractive FA. In my experience the bad attitudes usually come from the older grumpy flight attendants.
Would anyone ever chose to fly united over emirates? Emirates always has a great group of flight attendants that are usually more youthful. The older ones that remain on staff are extremely pleasant.
100+ flights a year and 9/10x the bad attitudes come from the senior flight attendants. Sorry. Shape up or ship out!!
and then they end up putting those grannies in First like on a flight I had two years back on UA, where, after a long hard day at work, being completely sober, but exhausted, I walked on the plane in my relaxed beach flip flop style, sat down in my seat..finally, facing around 22 hours on planes, and ordering a gin/tonic, with a feeling of relief that finally I was going for my month long vacation. To which she replied:'That's the only one you'll get, I watched you when you walked on the plane.' WHAT ???
At both of my my former airlines (retired now) the union contract stipulated pay protection for those denied a charter trip they otherwise would have held via seniority. In other words, they got to stay home and were paid as if they flew/worked the trip. I suspect United's AFA has that contractual requirement.