While the concept of basic economy has now been around for well over a decade in the United States, we’ve known that airlines here are planning to expand that concept to premium cabin tickets. Executives at the ”big three” US carriers — particularly Delta and United — have been clear about their intentions to roll…
Continue reading: United Adds Tiered Fares, “Basic” Polaris Business Class With Major Restrictions
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Thanks Delta for leading the way with shitty, customer unfriendly innovations!
For me a big factor in "basic" fares is do frequent flyer perks still apply? Such as free seat selection and increased luggage allowance.
You have to appreciate that some lounge access is still included here, that's usually the first perk to get removed from basic business fares, and only makes overcrowding in credit card lounges even worse
One can only pity the suckers who are stuck flying UA business vs. just about any other foreign carrier's biz. UA is utterly uncompetitive, from the mid service levels to the mid food, and now, to the mid biz. packages.
“I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!”
-Edina Monsoon, AbFab
United is becoming the airlines for people who spend OPM (Other Peoples Money)
this is correct. Why anyone would fly a US carrier internationally is beyond me. Always fly foreign flag carriers abroad.
This change doesn’t affect me at all. I always pay the highest fare. If you’re too poor , then sorry not sorry.
We will soon have front and back sections of business section. You get economy food, angled lay flat and no service. Coming to a major us airline near you!
"WHATS YOURE PROBLEM!!!"
Problem? No problem, you are amusing is all. Go on. Keep commenting. We need the laughs.
European and ME carriers have been doing this for years, including the ones that are consistently claimed as among the best in the world.
On many routes, United Polaris business has way better hard product than BA, Lufthansa, Swiss and Virgin Atlantic because they are still flying a mix of new and dated business class configurations.
I just don't get these fares. There's almost zero marginal cost to most of the stuff they're "unbundling". I'll pick the more generous carrier. And they won't have a significantly higher cost basis for being so. I don't see how this works in competitive markets
Regarding refunds, will basic fares allow refund to travel credit (which is fine)? Or no refund at all?
Why not add to Standard and Basic business class? Have Sub-Basic business class. No seat selection, cannot change assigned seats, no meals, no check luggage allowance, no carry on allowance except personal item, no lounge access, pillow or blanket is a paid extra, board last, must use economy section lavatory unless dire emergency, must remain seated and deplane last, must not speak with an FA except in an emergency, cannot use kiosk for check in but must print boarding pass at home or at a hotel, save electricity by turning off IFE for your seat, etc.
(shrug) Let's see the prices. Once the Centurion a EWR opens, I couldn't care less about Polaris. One checked bag is fine - as often as not, we travel with carryons. No refunds may be an issue.
>will basic fares allow refund to travel credit
No, at least according to Ben's post. Basic == no refunds, Standard == travel credit.
The marginal cost of the perks is immaterial. What matters is how much people will pay for them. In addition, there really is a two-tiered market, with the traditional corporate or very wealthy customers being very insensitive in price, as well as the huge and growing market of people who want to fly business but not at the super high prices. This allows UA to take advantage of both market segments.
For example, take the case of a current $1000 business class fare, and let's say the marginal cost of providing those extra services is $50. United could jack up the standard fare to $1500 and lower the basic fare to $800. Very wealthy customers will pay the $1500 (price-insensitive) and more of us plebes will be able to afford an $800 fare than a $1000 fare. If UA can sell equivalent numbers of both those fares, the average fare would be higher than $1000. So UA makes a lot more money while saving a tiny bit on the marginal costs.
I'm sure the exact math is different, but you get the idea. UA almost certainly did not do this to cut marginal costs. It did it to attract more revenue.
I think the airlines are missing a key psychological point here with the lounge access thing.
People love Polaris Lounge and it adds a halo effect to United. But no one will want to pay like $1000 extra for it knowingly. And if you blatantly advertise that that’s the cost to get in, people won’t do it. But if you just quietly tuck it into the cost of a ticket, people will be like “well that’s my vacation I’m splurging”
"it remains to be seen what elite status perks will apply on these fares. Furthermore, it remains to be seen what fare bundle upgrades and awards book into."
Technically yes. But don't kid yourself. We all know the answer and where this is headed.
I get that. But my point is that unbundling only really works when it changes your cost basis. Cut food. Make people pay for it. Makes sense - you spend less on catering and operations and make revenue when people want it. Cut free seat selection - yes you get a revenue opportunity, but it’s zero marginal cost for someone else to be “more generous” and offer the bundle. This only applies where this is actual competition, of course. Being relatively captive in San Francisco, I can see this being pretty crap for me unless I connect. Chicago? LA? Another story.
These bastards, US carriers, better never get another dime of taxpayer bailout.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the restrictions you jokingly mentioned become reality.
Buy business on a Star Alliance carrier and then give them the finger by using the United Polaris lounge.
Was in the IAD Polaris Club on Monday. Total shitshow. Crowded, furniture showing its age, dishes stacked everywhere, only 2 people working the dining room and both surly as hell. Bartender was awesome, though. Whatever the price differential will be between BVasic and Standard, it's not worth it. Eat at home or get something quick in the airport.
@TravelinWilly, here's a description of Edina Monsoon from charatour.com
"She is neurotic, high-strung, petulant, frivolous, garrulous, self-absorbed, borderline alcoholic – and, of course, absolutely fabulous."
That's why I love Edina "Eddy"
I actually don't see that much of a problem. You don't get the Polaris lounge, but you get the United Club. I believe on the ME3, you don't get any lounge access.
The only one that kind of bugs me is the seat selection fee; however, I was expecting that because that's been standard with European carriers for a while.
Tim Dunn and Scott Kirby walk into a bar.
The bartender looks at Kirby and says, “That’ll be $15 for the beer, plus a $5 convenience fee, a $3 chair-usage surcharge, and a 25% suggested tip.”Kirby smiles and says, “It’s a revolutionary unbundled pricing model!”
Tim Dunn doesn’t even look at his own menu. He just stares at Kirby and says, “Actually, Scott, if you look at the Q3 CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile) of this bar stool, your tipping strategy is fundamentally flawed. Delta’s stools have a 4% higher reliability rating and the napkins are 10% thicker.”
The bartender turns to Tim and asks, “And what about you, Tim? Are you going to tip?”Tim slowly places a Delta Comfort+ boarding pass on the bar. The bartender says, “I can’t pay my rent with this, Tim.”Tim leans in and whispers, “It’s not a tip; it’s an operational premium. The sheer prestige of serving a Delta loyalist provides more long-term ‘brand equity’ than any cash gratuity. Plus, I’ve already factored in a 15% reliability bonus because you didn’t outsource the pouring of this drink to a regional carrier.”
Here I thought DL was getting bad, but UA is getting worse. Was thinking of making the switch to UA, but will stick with DL for the time being. Considering free agency if the rat race gets more expensive than the paid bags and seats.
To Asia, sure. To Europe, I prefer UA over all but AF, and then I have to choose between more useful loyalty program + Polaris lounge + avoiding CDG vs slightly better product.
I'm sure when Swiss has 100% Senses coverage they will overtake UA, unless the consolidation in Frankfurt enshitifies them faster.
If you choose a basic fare, will you be able to upgrade to a standard fare after the fact? I think they allow that with B.E.
I wonder what will be the fare differentials between the various tiers and how they will compare to what the business class fares are now.
No changes is primitive. Make a punitive change fee if you wish. But no changes is BS because life happens. These aren't $ 79 tickets to Orlando at risk.
I bet redeeming miles for UA Business now puts you in the "Base" fare just like redemptions on BA. You'll have to pay extra for seat selection if you don't have the status for it and won't have access to Polaris lounge.
Haven't flown UA internationally for years and now have no intention to!
Note they also slipped in a lower baggage weight. Polaris bags had been up to 70 lbs free. Now with this change they're down to 50 lbs unless you have elite status.
" For your convenience, there's a point of sale machine mounted on the lav door which will unlock upon payment. Simply tap your credit card or use your phone wallet. Of course, there's a convenience fee for the 'door service' as well as an additional fee if you didn't prepay your (non-refundable) lav access fees at the time of booking ... We're happy to announce that you do get half mileage plan credit for using the lav ! ... We are also pleased to offer our top tier elite members 1 complementary courtesy visit to the (untidied) lav ! "
And so the enshitification of air travel continues, adding $friction$ at every opportunity ..
The catch is there will be no 'generous' other carrier .... It's 'monkey see, monkey do'.. Airlines are all in the conspiracy together, and yet they cite 'competitive reasons' as they gaslight their customers.....
Perhaps one day you'll be the standard by which all corporate policies are evaluated. Does it work for Dave? Then do it.
Exactly. I would want to have the "light" fare to be half the regular price to take on that risk.
Obviously bad for most consumers as will lead to higher prices for same/expected services. But may be good for shareholders and executive compensation..
meanwhile, the Chicago Polaris Lounge is great. Sad that I might never enter it again.
I wonder how being 1K alters the baggage limitations of a basic fare. Assume we still get our 3 bag allowance.
I think this is great. If I'm going to a wedding or a meeting where i know the exact dates, I would go with Polaris Basic. There would have to be a significant discount to a Standard Polaris ticket. The Polaris Lounge is fine but it's kinda boring - at EWR there are many better places to eat. If I am not exactly sure of plans I will just purchase a standard ticket. I'm curious to see this roll out on the pricing level. I rarely check a bag and even though I'm sure we all have our favorite Polaris seats, so long as it reclines flat that is good enough for me. I wasn't put on this planet to complain aboard catering it is perfectly fine as it is. I'd rather save $1000.
Did you read the whole article? Of course not.
"For now, United claims that award tickets won’t book into 'basic' fare classes, so will continue to have the typical perks."
There will be no discount. Polaris Basic will be priced at the same level as the current lowest Polaris fare.
I really don't understand all these comments. If UA really do have the power to raise fares by charging the same for a lesser product, why do they have to come up with these convoluted tiers in preference to charging more for the same? Do they even sell tickets for more than their CASM, or is it all cross-subsidised by credit cards?
This is great and sounds a lot like Zip Air from Tokyo to the US. My lie-flat seat on a 787 was only about $1,200. I had to pay for a bottle of water, there was zero service, and if I wanted to change the ticket, well, buy a new one. No changes allowed. I really care only about the seat and fitting my 6’5” frame in it.
This is going to suck for anyone still on a corporate travel policy that allows business class but requires cheapest fare.
Basic business is such absolute BS.
The airlines that have added this are scummy, its not to offer the customer anything its so they can chharge more for proper business while having their crap version of the product at the top of the search lists.
They really don't understand premium.
What if Ritz-Carlton / Four Seasons / Aman hotel rates didn't include TV, extra blankets, hot water, etc.?
Absolutely going in the wrong direction. Makes choosing Singapore or Air France over United an even more no-brainer
No, it's for the people not-rich-enough (or not part of the government) to fly private (in the US, now 34% bigger than 2019 levels, )
You will be surprised. There is a whole universe of people who are price-conscious and bent on only travelling in business. They will go on about how expensive business fares are but never consider going economy or premium economy. Basic business fares might give them the illusion of being economical without having to compromise on what they see as basic comfort.
If the hard product and the soft product are the same then it basically depends what you value. Furthermore, it also depends on the configuration of the plane. If it is a 1-2-1 business class or a 2-3-2 business class or a 1-3-1 business class your odds of getting an undesired seat are larger. Also, the customer may be screwed here because the current price may be the basic price....
It's clearly bad for consumers. We're going to have to pay more to get what we used to get for less. And, the workers who have to enforce new restrictions are gonna face the ire of passengers who don't understand the new fare types. Imagine, a bunch of Boomers who are excited for their retirement trip to Europe in business class finding out they can't get into the 'nice' lounge because of a technicality. Oof, would not want to be the lounge agents at Polaris check-in...
Mary, this does feel like Ritz-Carlton, which often does not include benefits like complimentary breakfasts for Marriott Bonvoy elites, even while other 'premium' brands within that portfolio, like St. Regis, often do include breakfast. So, United has done these tiers, and yet, American and Delta have not, so far, but likely will soon. If there's a way to profit further, these companies will do it, regardless of whether it upsets consumers or workers.
A 10% discount to the standard Polaris fare seems pretty reasonable for all you give up. Or a 10% premium to the base fare to get all of the normal stuff
Unfortunately, this is where the US3 are heading. Monetizing everything in all classes. Want a seat assignment? Pay up. Want a meal on your 12 hour flight? Pay up. Loyalty as we know it is dead.
I retire in three years and with it a major change in lifestyle, including more staying at home and maybe 5-6 trips a year in premium. So I'm enjoying the last gasps of the old loyalty system.
You're almost getting it, George. Like, some of us have been calling out the corporate greed for a while. It's clearly anti-consumer, and often anti-worker. These changes are also borderline deceptive, because you know folks are gonna get tripped up by this, and be disappointed when the lounge or status doesn't work out the way they were expecting.
Oh, Tim, it's most definitely a devaluation. There is no real 'discount' here. Let's not be naive.
I only book full fare First (when available) or Business. So this doesn’t affect me at all.
Must suck to be poor. Lol
It’s where the industry is heading, not just the US3. British Airways charges you for choosing your seat im business class. And Qatar Airways also has bassic business class fees that do not include lounge access.
With basic economy there effectively is such a fee - it's the "upgrade to regular economy fee".
no earning at all unless you are elite or have the credit card. Thats not a small devaluation
How long will it take Delta to program their Basic Business fare structure? I know they have IT issues, but they announced theirs a while ago.
That's good and well if the seat is $1200, putting in line with premium economy seats. I seriously doubt that United are going to offer a 50% discount on their fares to go to basic, which makes it far less preferable
@Lucky which market did you see the above screenshot in? I can't seem to find any basic polaris fares on the UA site
I frequently book first instead of economy on positioning flights to get the 2 free checked bags -- difference in fare is often around or even less than the cost of the checked bags.
I guess it all comes out in the wash -- my Platinum credits will no longer work on Travel Bank, so might as well us e them on actual bag fees! LOL
First? *Three fingers inglourious basterds meme*
We're talking Polaris, which is usually 'business' class... might be the same seat for domestic, transcon, or short-haul international, but, technically, First is only the domestic recliners, and United hasn't had a separate, dedicated First class in a while (you know, like how American still has it on their 773?)
This has been... 'umm ackchualleee...'
@snic, make no mistake, that $1000 fare wont come down for a single penny, and will just become the new "basic" fare!
I would be delighted to pay less for a room without a TV!
But I agree I want the hot water.
@bossa - you forgot the processing fee on the convenience fee 🙂
(see Mariott tipping)
Well economy plus today is worse than economy in the 90s. Back then my transcon economy seat came with a meal on a widebody plane that is rarely even close to full. But gas was also 75 cents/gallon. *shrug* life.
Time to open US to foreign carriers, enough of the dividing the pie among basically 3 carriers with a collusion appearing approach to customer fleecing without adding value, food stinks, crews mostly are a crapshoot, customer service non existing. Only thing they improved is business class seats, yet the bathrooms, even in business class stink, no pun intended.
Hopefully not a stupid question as I’ve never booked a basic fare. Would this mean that if I already get 3 checked bags for free normally I would be limited?
Since they aren't changeable Basic most likely won't be in policy for most OPM flyers
Good timing, too. I hear Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar have a lot of spare aircraft and crew these days… would be wild to take JFK-MIA on an a380 for $50, all subsidized by oil money and migrant “labor”. Sorry, pipe-dream/nightmare.
My wife and I travel internationally for pleasure 4-7 times per year. Asia and the Pacific are our most frequent destinations from Florida. We are retired luxury travelers. When perceived value balances price, we have a budget that allows us to do what we like. However, in today’s world of travel, including more than just airlines, the impression left with the targeted consumer is that the industry providers are just trying to chisel cash with laughable Add On Tiered Purchases.
Are we far from. “What the mask drops down, just swipe your card to activate the oxygen flow”?
Carriers are terrified of paying their operational costs and generating their desired profits based on a simple posted fare. Your business class travelers are not stupid but you nonetheless treat them as if they are. We really do know which cup is hiding the ball despite your failed efforts to misdirect us.
British Air and Air France are already on our Will Not Fly list. The only reason that American and United are not on it is that functionally, we need them.
The absolute worst of travel is the actual traveling. It was not always like this. The airlines have become everybody’s sore point when traveling. Now that is a management result that somebody might be proud of, which would put them on my Questionable Hire list, but then, I’m an old guy who has outdated standards for balancing value, price and customer experience. Definitely an anachronistic mindset!
I’m typing this at a luxury hotel in Sardinia, thick with Russian oligarchs and their hidden mega yachts. And this lovely property like so many others is trying to cut their laundry costs with laughable message cards promoting their efforts to save the environment by getting me to accept fewer bed linen changes and reusing bath towels. Yeah, sure. It seems likely that if I can afford their room price, I might be sufficiently insightful to not swallow their pitch.
Oh how I yearn for those simple years when competition for your business was based on value and satisfaction.