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How Much Are United MileagePlus Miles Worth Post-Devaluation?

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(@lucky)
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With United having significantly devalued MileagePlus miles, I think it’s only fair that I adjust my valuation of this currency. I’m coming to a strange conclusion — are United MileagePlus miles and Delta SkyMiles now worth roughly the same?

Continue reading: How Much Are United MileagePlus Miles Worth Post-Devaluation?

Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.


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54 Replies
(@James K.)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 625

I'm with you Ben. There used to be a time, not too long ago, when I would have taken a United mile over virtually any other non-transferrable currency. Depressing how far they've fallen and how fast.


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(@Kacee)
Joined: 13 years ago

Posts: 160

While there's the occasional decent redemption, on average UA miles are overall worth less than 1 cpp.

Would be great to see you stop touting the UA Chase cards to protest the serial devaluation of what was once a great program.


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(@listen)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 28

the corollary is 1 Chase point is now worth 1 Hyatt point


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(@donna)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 1579

Additionally, my calculus of AA miles is now roughly equivalent to UA and DL, just slightly over 1 cent per mile. Pathetic, given how few decent redemptions are available in the current climate in any of these currencies even at that price.


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(@E miles)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 1

I am seeing UA domestic coach redemptions at ~0.8 cents/mile right now. Seems like there is no floor for how bad they can get and far worse than skypesos.


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 Adam
(@Adam)
Joined: 14 years ago

Posts: 57

I find that on a typical domestic economy fair, you can get 1.2-1.3 cpp with Delta Skymiles. Comfort and first are never as good of a redemption value. With the 15% discount it's more like 1.4-1.5. The problem is that Delta has killed all aspirational redemptions. I feel like United is terrible for domestic redemptions but international can have okay value. Delta is rarely worthwhile for me internationally these days.


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 Greg
(@Greg)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 146

You are spot on which is not surprising as this blog has a very sensible customer oriented point of view with a large touch of AV geekness. Another great post.


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Diamond
(@anthony-3)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 924

Even though I am a Delta loyalist, I was going to write in and defend United here because at the end of the day, I thought you could reliably get much cheaper redemptions (say in the 100K-150K range to Europe) even post devaluation. But a quick search even finds that is hard - EWR to Europe late fall seems to be pricing 250-300K one way on United retail in late September (my favorite time to fly to Europe). That is not far off from Delta's normal pricing (and some cases more expensive than Delta's pricing), and as you point out, Delta is much better domestically in terms of reward pricing.


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(@TooTallTraveler)
Joined: 8 years ago

Posts: 7

I still give united the edge over delta. Comparing apples to apples with united metal using united miles to delta metal using skymiles, you can still get relative biz class bargains of europe and Asia destinations for 80-90k where as delta is always 300k+


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Diamond
(@irishalan)
Joined: 4 years ago

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Posts: 111

I almost feel like we’re at a point where there have to be separate domestic and international valuations for the big 3. For DL I’d argue they’re only worth about 0.6 for international awards but they’re probably worth 1.5 for domestic awards. UA is now probably worth about 1.0 for international and 1.3 for domestic.

So maybe 1.1 is fair for UA overall but DL is probably really about 0.9 if you don’t live near a hub and use for domestic flights.


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 NK3
Diamond
(@nk3)
Joined: 4 years ago

Member
Posts: 115

One of the most undervalued aspects of SkyMiles for me is earning MQMs and MQDs on award tickets. I now use miles to pay for most domestic flights. With the 15% discount, I have made a couple dozen award bookings this year so far, always ranging from 1.5-2.0+ cpm. It helps that my home airport (SEA) tends to have better Delta domestic redemptions.

I also value the 2500 mile late baggage benefit with Delta. I have received it greater than 50% of the time for the past few years. So I can affectively factor in another 1250 mile discount on award tickets. I collect other miles for international premium cabin awards, but SkyMiles is the best option for my everyday domestic flights.


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Diamond
(@anthony-3)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 924

1) It's time for blogs to start studying changes to strategies, like paying for international flights with cash and redeeming for domestic. As NK3 points out, many airlines are now allowing elite earnings on award tickets. Pair that with various discounts, ability to upgrade them, etc, this can make a lot of sense. With international award availability often limited, maybe a $3K or $4K round trip international business cash booking should be considered for those that can afford it.

2) Though Delta is appropriately getting some kudos here, I still note the lack of any real flash sale this year. That is how I have historically gotten real strong value out of SkyMiles for international J. I liked them because they rewarded the most engaged Delta members (you have to know about them, and book quick). Dead silent on that front in 2023.


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Gold
(@darin)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 63

No way that AA are in the same category as UA/DL. While availability on their own metal sucks, their standard rates on partner award pricing is still quite reasonable, and with partners like Qatar and JAL, there are often opportunities to find great business class seats at good rates. And variable pricing on their own metal cuts both ways… while it means most pricing is higher than it used to be, I’ve been able to get transcon business class on AA/B6 at 50-60k pretty regularly, even cheaper for less desirable times. That price used to seem high, but compare it to UA/DL pricing (and the revenue price of the tickets) and there’s still plenty of value to be extracted out of AAdvantage. UA/DL by contrast, there’s really no opportunity to find reasonable value.


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(@Mike B)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 8

Someone please explain to me, as a chase Sapphire reserve holder why anything less than 1.5cpm makes sense to redeem when I can get this booking with Chase. Yes then I'm using a TA but I alsi get the benefits of a cash ticket.


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(@Never In Doubt)
Joined: 5 years ago

Posts: 1080

“ Would be great to see you stop touting the UA Chase cards to protest the serial devaluation of what was once a great program.”

I’m sure Ben might be interested to do that were you to being paying him to replace the significant income.


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(@donna)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 1579

@Darin - I stated “my calculus!” YMMV, right? I fly for business to Europe, do not use partners and pretty much fly AA and DL metal. And I don’t fly B6!


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 Eric
(@Eric)
Joined: 16 years ago

Posts: 62

Chase has a pay yourself back option with the Aeroplan card, I wonder if they could do that with United as well. Chase probably funds it by buying fewer points from Aeroplan.

The united devaluation sucks, but hopefully they keep reasonable redemptions available on their own metal. Maybe they are hoping by setting the pqp requirement high, people will put spend on their quest card to generate pqps.

American miles are awesome. I have some great web special redemptions from them which makes sense to play the loyalty points game. 4x Las to east coast seats for $23k each, what inflation? Economy the other way for 8,000 points.


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 Zzz
(@Zzz)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 2

United allows cobrand cardholders to spend miles to offset cash ticket costs (post purchase) at a rate of 1 cpm. Only applies to the fare and not the taxes, but as these are cash tickets, they at least earn miles + status credit.

https://choices.unitedmileageplus.com/airfare


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 John
(@John)
Joined: 5 years ago

Posts: 42

They should change the name to Milageminus


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Diamond
(@andrew-5)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 737

The race to the bottom takes a major step forward. Good analysis and agree at valuation. I've started to diversify into cash only cards, because that's clearly the future.


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 CXP
Diamond
(@cxp)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 61

I wonder where the tipping point lies for mile/points devaluation. At some point the average consumer, bank, etc. who wants and pays for those miles (either directly or indirectly) today will stop doing so if redemptions are uneconomical (like those ludicrous 400k mile one ways United offers) or simply impossible. It seems we've been marching in this direction for a while now but haven't quite reached it yet. Thoughts?


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 john
(@john)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 67

The answer is easy.

A) CSR 1.5 cent redemption
B) Cash back into brokerage

Airlines have shown they don't give a rats ass about "loyalty". The only thing you can do as a customer is show them the same courtesy.


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 Matt
(@Matt)
Joined: 8 years ago

Posts: 8

For what it’s worth, I just booked two J tickets for the Cape Town to Washington Dulles nonstop on United metal in December for 109,600 Mileage Plus Miles each. I don’t think that’s too terrible value…


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(@kevinbruce)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 3

I got a non stop business from ATL to Seoul for 120,000 Delta. for next month Now I booked it the day it was available, last year, but three cents per mile is exceptional for Delta. I then paid cash for the return, but THAT is what the flight was worth to me. yes, That 120K price was only 2 or 3 times in that week, and on KAL, and Delta charged about 300,000 for Delta alternatives with connections. Maybe I was superlucky?


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Gold
(@bobby-j)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 77

Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but I have yet to find a single Aeroplan redemption at rates lower than MileagePlus that didn’t also charge astronomical fees. For example, I just ran a simple IAD-FRA for mid-August and the cheapest redemption in Y was 113,600 Aeroplan points PLUS C$1691.20. To book on all points would come in at 213,710 points. And this is with connections in YYZ…the same itinerary on UA can be had for 79,900. If someone can tell me if I’m doing something wrong, I’d appreciate it. Similarly, it’s very rare that DL beats out UA for redemptions, but it is more common, especially for domestic flights, as others have noted.


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 TimR
(@TimR)
Joined: 8 years ago

Posts: 77

You need to look for saver awards, not dynamic ones that you are getting


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(@Dominic Kivni)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 67

UA has simply shifted to "actually" rewarding loyalty. There's expanded award availability for elite status holders, which is achieved by either spending lots of money with the airline or through their cobranded credit card. Giving away cheap saver awards to people who never fly United but credit in a bunch of Chase UR points really doesn't do much for the airline, it just offers a backdoor to get cheap tickets to those who have no loyalty to United (which I suppose is the entire point of the complaint). If you were to ask GS / 1K / Plat status holders (you know, the the UA passengers who are actually loyal to United), they have plenty of miles and probably plenty more incremental Chase UR points, and now there's more J award availability reserved for them rather than for general UA flyers. It's a win for actual UA loyalists, and a loss for everyone else, just like the seat selection fees on BA and now AF / KLM J seats


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(@derek)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 774

I am starting to think that frequent flyer programs are more useful for winter domestic economy class tickets than anything else. Gone are the days of international business class. Soon, you will need a million miles for that and then don't earn many miles for every trip you make, domestic or international.


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 Dan
(@Dan)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 62

What you’re finding likely includes mostly, if not entirely, AC metal. Partner space will be cheaper.


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(@Anonymous)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 6

@Anthony There were at least two meaningful SkyMiles flash sales in 2023 that I'm aware of. One was US-Japan at 60k round trip in February and the current one (starting this past Friday) is US-New Zealand at 44k or 50k round trip. Of course both are economy class, unannounced, random, and first-come-first-serve, but for folks who are destination-focused (i.e. don't care about biz class) and flexible in travel dates, visa situation, etc., these flash sales allow SkyMiles members to redeem at maximal values. No comments on biz class flash sales, but in fairness to Delta, just want point out that SkyMiles flash sales are out there for plebeian travelers.


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 Levi
Diamond
(@levi-2)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 220

DL hasn't yet harmonized partner metal awards with DL metal awards (as they have in the US market).

Originating outside the US or Canada is now the general tactic for optimizing SkyMiles redemptions (though for EU to US awards, DL will charge similar YQ surcharges as Flying Blue), likely because those markets haven't seen the level of miles being given out that we see in the US.


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(@KevinLed)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 21

I book flights from SFO to Bangkok often. It used to be pretty easy to get business class for 95,000 each way. Now those flights are 200,000 and even then the ticket is often a mix of business & economy. I have lot of points with them, and to me they are worth less than half of what they were.


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 Lee
(@Lee)
Joined: 4 years ago

Posts: 1075

The quality of the food and service more than overcomes all of the complaints about devaluation.


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 DCS
(@DCS)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 1416

Okay, then why don't you find so-called saver awards and show that AC is cheaper than UA on partner metal. I did it extensively and found nothing.

Either do it and demonstrate your claim, or stop trying to make it because it is bogus.


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(@Ivan X)
Joined: 8 years ago

Posts: 131

There are times when a United award price is still worth more than 1.5 cents per mile as compared with the cash price of a refundable ticket (sticking with refundable tickets negates a lot of the issues with using an OTA if you have to cancel the ticket).

If you're chasing status then the bar might need to be higher than 1.5 cents per mile since you get PQP based on the cash price of the ticket, not the actual Chase points you needed to pay.


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 Dan
(@Dan)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 62

What are you even talking about man


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 TimR
(@TimR)
Joined: 8 years ago

Posts: 77

LOL, Lucky literally states an example in his blog post


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Diamond
(@glenn-t)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 1195

In your article you wonder " are United MileagePlus miles and Delta SkyMiles now equally valuable?"
In light of what both airlines have done to their FF programs, don't you mean "equally valueless" ?


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 DCS
(@DCS)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 1416

An example a rule does not make. I gave several just the other day that contradict that case...


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 DCS
(@DCS)
Joined: 12 years ago

Posts: 1416

So are UA partner awards...


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 Trey
(@Trey)
Joined: 10 years ago

Posts: 251

Yes, there's always plenty of saver economy award seats to Tulsa on a Tuesday night in the middle of winter, on one of their regional jets!


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 Lune
Diamond
(@lune)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 154

I'm not sure that's true. I'm a platinum member, and whether I log in or not, I get the same options. Occasionally, I agree I do see some awards only when I log in (and those are flagged as available only to members), but that's pretty rare. It seems to me that by far, the vast majority of award space is available regardless of status. Or maybe I'm not high enough on the status ladder?

I'd love for what you say to be true, since that would help me, but it doesn't seem to be the case.


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 K.
(@K.)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 6

It’s as easy to find as the Hilton upgrades you talk about getting every stay.


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(@Davisson)
Joined: 13 years ago

Posts: 148

I mostly redeem delta for domestic now days so this assessment is on the right track.


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 Neil
(@Neil)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 7

After the bottom started to fall out a week ago, I’ve made 2 reservations at saver level for great value. Got 5cpp for mid-July (MGA-BNA, UA metal), priced at $2057, for 40k+$78 rt, and 1.7cpp next year (PRG-VIE, and VIE-BUD) both for 6.5kon Austrian. Happy camper if I can keep getting those values.


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(@Florida Sunshine)
Joined: 6 years ago

Posts: 70

I’m 360 delta and global services. I find both a joke. But loyalty is delta. And have 7 million flown miles between them. I have both cc, but won’t hardly use them. Better get points on other cards then choose


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Diamond
(@reddargon)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 121

I agree to an extent, but I also think the average consumer doesn't understand how the maximize these miles anyway. I would guess that many people never progress past the miles accumulation stage of understanding points, and end up redeeming them at non-saver rates.


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 john
(@john)
Joined: 9 years ago

Posts: 67

You still need to factor in that using a CSR gives you PQFs and PQDs.

In the aggregate CSR will give you more value and far less stress in the long-run compared to chasing down functionally zero availability these days.


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Gold
(@darin)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 63

Yeah that benefit is purely theoretical. For business class, I can’t remember the last time I saw improved availability as an elite member (I’m Platinum). So that’s not what’s happening here, it’s just as much a devaluation for elite members as it is for everyone else.


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 DCS
Diamond
(@dcs)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 1308

Talk is cheap and that is all those claiming the better 'value' of booking through AC have done...talk, talk, talk.
Do searches for free and then present your case, just like I have presented my case with photos of the insides of Hilton suite upgrades.

Either that or can it.


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(@Peter)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 1

I am currently sitting on a beach in Italy. Booked Lufthansa first class through AC from Chicago, through Munich for 100k points and $90 in taxes and fees. Got the Porsche airport transfer and all. Flights just didn’t pop up with points until the day before I left. Done it enough times I trust the process that something will show up.


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 shza
Gold
(@shza)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 117

Not sure what you're talking about. I'm 1K and there's no good award availability on United (at least at any times I actually want to use points, as a person with a normal job and not a points blogger -- the only people who ever see these mythical "saver" awards, since they can leave on a Wednesday in the middle of September for wherever).


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(@iamhere)
Joined: 10 years ago

Posts: 1879

It is time for blogs to compare the actual value based on redemption. Delta Skymiles are best redeemed for shorter cheaper flights like Florida to NYC which can be done for 10-15k and relative to the cash price that's a good deal.


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(@Thurston)
Joined: 3 years ago

Posts: 5

The MilagePlus has been going downhill for years. I've stayed loyal out of habit but there's really no reason to anymore. They've devalued the miles to an incredible degree.


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Posts: 333
Platinum
(@1990_)
Member
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Ben, thank you for pointing this out. I've made a few high-value United point redemptions recently, and was also starting to notice this. It seems you really need one of their cards to get the super-deals. (Like, there was the EWR-SFO/LAX transcon 25K each way in Polaris, recently, as well). Thankfully, can transfer via Chase and BILT, so have been able to push over points when needed. Just hope the good times last, because they're harder to come by these days elsewhere.


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1 Reply
(@Glidescope)
Joined: 2 years ago

Posts: 129

I took advantage of EWR to LAX recently. If you value the miles at 1cpp, that's like getting a round trip in first/business for $510. In that case, you would normally be well over $1k, pushing $2-3k+ on the route. Great deal.

Besides making people be sticky with credit card buy-in, I think it's also smart to get some of those whales to unload points. I don't have the numbers or even an estimate (I'm not a pretend airline analyst), but I have to believe that there are many thousands of people that have multiple millions of miles sitting in accounts. An EWR-RDU redemption for 6K miles isn't going to convince any of them to use them, nor is a 200k mile TPAC redemption. At 85K though?


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Posts: 23
(@funkyflapjak)
Member
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Agreed on all fronts- one thing you also didn't mention is them having a great route map helps the valuation IMO. Imagine if this was AA it would be like cool you can fly to London, Paris, Tokyo, and Sydney on AA metal and that's basically it. UA has great destinations, and 72k TATL and 90k TPAC J (with 10% cardholder discount) with low fees is great pricing these days


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Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

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Posts: 39796

@ Funkyflapjak -- Agreed completely! Though I do think I mentioned how the great route map helps the valuation. 😉
"While United might not have the world’s best inflight product, the airline is by far the most global of the 'big three' US carriers, and actually flies where many people want to go, and where people aspirationally want to redeem their miles to."


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Posts: 728
(@Throwawayname)
Joined: 1 year ago

I don't understand your logic here. Do those changes have any effect whatsoever on redeeming UA miles for flights on other *A airlines?

If not, does anyone really want to get tied down to having to redeem awards on a single airline when there are alternatives out there offering availability across an entire alliance? Shouldn't the valuation be subject to a discount for the inconvenience and risk? Avianca offer plenty of great awards on their own metal but would it make sense to base your LifeMiles valuation on the basis of those?


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Platinum
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

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Posts: 333

Many of us are based in the US, and UA does fly many places we'd travel to, so their metal is not a joke (whereas, let's be clear, Avianca, a320, N. America to BOG, 3-3 middle-blocked ain't much of a J). I've still found some decent partner awards using United points (even on other US domestic carriers, like B6, if you trust them to even operate these days...) Are you going to find affordable J or F on LH via UA points? Probably not. Then again, Air Canada Aeroplan used to have those, but not so much anymore, so...


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Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

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Posts: 39796

@ Throwawayname -- My valuation of miles comes from the sum of all the ways there are to redeem that currency, both for travel on the "native" airline and partner airlines.

For someone based in the US (or who travels to or from the US with any frequency), what's the single most valuable airline to be able to redeem on in premium cabins? I'd argue it's United (and if you think it's another airline that's bookable with Aeroplan or Lifemiles, I'd be curious to hear what you think it is).

And yes, there absolutely should be a discount to the value of miles to account for risk. However, as we've seen changes to other loyalty programs, the MileagePlus partner award pricing is more compelling than it used to be, at least on a relative basis. As I cited in the post, Africa redemptions are the perfect example of that.


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(@Throwawayname)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 728

Presumably it depends on where they're going. COPA would probably be better than UA for US to/from S. America and LX for Europe. I have no clue about Trans-Pacific award availability so I don't know whether the likes of EVA and ANA, whom I would obviously fly over UA, offer a worthwhile amount of availability (presumably SQ don't).

My reference to risk isn't related to a potential future devaluation but to the real-time introduction of a single point of failure - if you've been planning to redeem UA miles on their own metal for Xk and you can only find availability with LX and TP but United charge you 1.5Xk for that, your miles are obviously worth less than you had planned.


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Topic starter
(@lucky)
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@ Alonzo -- I wouldn't expect airlines to get "out of bed" with the big banks anytime soon, since that's where a large percentage of profits come from.

And an EWR to LHR example is hardly the most relevant example here. Try CPT, NCE, PPT, SIN, etc.


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Posts: 30
(@sel_d)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago

All good points but a stretch to value them so close to AA/AS which are so much stronger domestically (25-50% less miles), and consistently 10-20% less for longhaul biz. If AA is 1.5, United simply can’t be above 1.2.


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3 Replies
Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

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Posts: 39796

@ Sel_D -- I think this gets at the issue. Yes, AA's redemption rates are much more attractive, but what's actually left of partner award space? At least to and from the US, there's almost nothing in premium cabins on CX, EY, JL, and QR. Meanwhile destinations served on AA metal are extremely limited. I agree with you that domestic redemptions have become the new sweet spot for the program.


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(@sel_d)
Joined: 4 years ago

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Posts: 30

I get this. But assuming someone had no miles or a balanced portfolio, how could you advise someone to take 600k UA miles over 500k AA? Unless maybe they only wanted long haul biz to SIN.

Partner availability isn’t great but there is enough on JL and EI to find something. AA also constantly has awards in the 100k range on their own metal, not jumping to 200k+ like UA when no saver is available.


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Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

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Posts: 39796

@ Sel_D -- For the record, I don't ever advise that anyone earn that many miles directly with one program, rather than with a transferable points program, since that gives you more flexibility.

But let's just use Asia as an example. No shade, but how many JL premium cabin award seats can you find right now between any US gateway and Japan? I just checked, and the answer isn't pretty.

Yes, AA has potentially attractive pricing on its own metal, but that's only useful in getting as far as Seoul Incheon, Shanghai, and Tokyo. That's it. You can't even combine AA's non-saver pricing with partner awards. I'm not saying UA miles are great, but just that they're actually usable, which is increasingly becoming an issue with other programs. I have a post coming about AA miles soon, so stay tuned for that. 🙂


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Posts: 333
Platinum
(@1990_)
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Joined: 2 weeks ago

80K for Polaris TATL? Um, yeah, I'd say that's very much still a 'deal,' in 2026 especially. At 1 cpp, $800 for what would otherwise be like a +$2,000/way ticket on-average. 2-4x value is great. EWR/IAD-JNB/CPT at 220K/way is still a deal, too; those tickets can be $5K/way cash price. If it's significantly better than 1cpp, it's still a win (2-3x is good, 5x+ is excellent). Listen, compare that to the games Delta's been playing for years (SkyPesos), you'd need like 500K-1 million points. Psh.


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Posts: 116
Platinum
(@peter_)
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Joined: 7 months ago

I value AA at 1.5 and DL at 1.0. I used to value UA as more like 1.2 but agree now it’s probably more like 1.3-1.4. I guess I still would view UA as at least a tenth of a point less than AA.

But to your point all of this now changes based on status and card holding. Same with FB now. That’s the way the game is going. So if you are a UA loyalist you’re simply going to have a higher value than others.


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Platinum
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

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Posts: 333

I used to value Alaska at 2 cpp, but I've gotten lucky with AS points on AA metal (up to 10x, like on that JFK-EZE 773 in F, thanks to FM's find earlier this year, wowzers!) Then again, they go through cycles, where like they have almost no partner J availability. Hoping that Starlux deal returns. It's so random.


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(@bennymac)
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Curious why the values page is not updated given this post. Is that done on a biannual basis?


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Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

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Posts: 39796

@ BennyMac -- I'm planning updates very soon, but as you can see in this post, I'm asking for feedback on what others think the right number is.


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(@MrChu)
Joined: 10 years ago

United miles have tremendous value if you live close to United hubs especially EWR or SFO since the prices are high in these markets and United elites with United credit card get a great return!


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Posts: 132
 Tony
(@Tony)
Joined: 10 years ago

Keeping your premium cabin awards to your own program is a double-edged sword. Your partners, if not already, will gradually be doing the same thing for their own programs. Everyone will end up worse off eventually.


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3 Replies
Admin
(@lucky)
Joined: 13 years ago

Member
Posts: 39796

@ Tony -- As a consumer I of course hate this, but it was the inevitable outcome when we increasingly saw airlines frequently selling points at a huge discount, essentially acting as a consolidator for partner airline premium cabin seats.


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 Tony
(@Tony)
Joined: 10 years ago

Posts: 132

Yes, if you're going to revalue UA miles, you probably should do the same with the likes of LifeMiles. Smaller programs without their own compelling products will take the biggest hits.

In terms of valuation, airline miles are basically complicated financial options (similar to the much simpler but familiar stock options). The value of an option highly depends not only on "strike" price, but also on the availability or the range of possible outcomes. When premium cabin partner awards are nearly nonexistent, increasing the availability of your own awards obviously would be a great impact on the value of the option.


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 Greg
(@Greg)
Joined: 14 years ago

Posts: 621

Their partners like SQ and LH group started this years ago.

I’m glad to see more Saver price seats for premium cabins on United and am increasing my engagement. Still a ways to go esp vs AA avail but credit them for improving.


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Posts: 72
(@Andrew)
Joined: 11 years ago

The value depends on whether you have a United credit card. Agree with Ben’s sentiment; I certainly wish UA released more to partners, but at least they’re delivering. I’ll gladly pay $95/year as a copay to get access to more space at way better prices.


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Posts: 659
(@Bgriff)
Joined: 13 years ago

I don't think you're giving United enough credit here for the fact that there is a positive underlying this -- they actually release a decent amount of longhaul premium cabin saver award space to their own members. Sure, some routes virtually never have space, but it's actually not terribly hard to find on core Europe, Asia, and even Australia routes.

AA may have a lower award chart, but they virtually never release premium awards on their own metal and are just coasting off what partners make available. (I just redeemed 90K miles one way for United business to Australia -- AA's pricing is lower in theory, but is it ever lower in practice?) DL has essentially killed saver awards altogether. And international airlines across the board don't release nearly as much space as they used to.

So yes, United is limiting how you can access that space, but in exchange they're actually offering you useful ways to use your miles.


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Posts: 175
Diamond
(@polarbear)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago

I was actually surprised to see 1.3 cents per mile - I would say SIN-SFO in Polaris is worth more than $1300 (well, $1369 :-).
Most people interested in Polaris will probably be willing to pay more in cash.
(and btw, these rates do not require credit card, just any elite status). So let's see how long will these "60% off" deals will stick around


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Posts: 1061
 snic
Diamond
(@snic)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago

United's social engineering has worked with me, at least to some extent. I have a UA Explorer card mostly so that I have access to lower-priced award tickets. However, I still find it difficult to find Polaris seats, and most of my recent TATL and TPAC award tickets in J have been via other airlines (Air Canada, Singapore). For domestic economy, the more reasonable miles price point is useful in cases where the cash price is ridiculous. Because I'm buying tickets for a kid in school on the other side of the country, I decided to keep the card.


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Posts: 1225
Diamond
(@maxpower)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago

You have to wonder how much of this current "availability" and good deal will stick around for more than a year or two.
Scott Kirby has been quite loud talking about the stickiness of a customer with a United credit card and how they're more likely to stay with UA.

In a sense it's a bit like the old tale about dropping a frog in boiling water vs cold water and gradually warming it.
It strikes me that United is likely pursuing the latter. Bringing in customers with the lure of these deals and, if history is any guide, likely to devalue more and more as they view their saturation point with cards.
But we've certainly seen with Delta how customers are happy to watch their preferred program become almost worthless but stay loyal despite it not being in their own personal financial interest.

You really do have to wonder what the reckoning will be as consumers eventually start to act in their own interest.


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2 Replies
(@Throwawayname)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 728

Exactly, the playbook looks obvious and their partner award pricing is already pretty high. They're keen to attract 'sticky' customers so that they can milk them and they're basically not interested in anyone else. That also aligns with the decision to fly across the Atlantic to places with next to no originating pax like SCQ and SPU and FAO while staying away from important cities/conurbations like LYS (and MRS), MAN (and BHX), DUS etc.


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(@funkyflapjak)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Member
Posts: 23

if you've spent any time on r/Delta you'll realize peoples ability to act in conflict with their own personal interest is basically limitless. Basically Stockholm syndrome at this point


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Posts: 253
(@Voian)
Joined: 2 years ago

Ben, in no scenario would I say UA and DL miles should have the same or similar valuation. There are still some good redemptions to be had on UA - sometimes requiring many layovers, sometimes it’s just one seat that opens up last minute (eg ROR-GUM-SPN-NRT-ORD-LGA in J for 85k miles earlier this year...).

DL on the other hand is absolutely worthless.


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5 Replies
Platinum
(@mickyb)
Joined: 8 months ago

Member
Posts: 59

Given how much I'd heard about "Skypesos", I was surprised to find that Delta was the best place to book MNL-AMS-LHR with KLM (80k+$92).


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(@Throwawayname)
Joined: 1 year ago

Posts: 728

DL miles are absolutely fine for awards outside of the USA.


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Platinum
(@1990_)
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Member
Posts: 333

@mickyb You got lucky there! Was that in J? If so, which Delft Blue House did you pick from MNL-AMS?


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Platinum
(@mickyb)
Joined: 8 months ago

Member
Posts: 59

@1990_ my wife took the flight, she was very pleased with her house. It was no.41, Sint Jacobsstraat 13.

Unfortunately, she didn't know to ask for a rubber duck after I found her LH 1st with Lifemiles (JNB-FRA-LHR), but of the two she definitely prefers the house!


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 SBS
Diamond
(@sbs)
Joined: 5 years ago

Member
Posts: 212

@volan, did you actually fly that itinerary? UA has pretty random availability to/from ROR. Sometimes it's last minute, other times a few months out. Almost never when the schedule opens. Can be in either direction. Most of the time it's mixed class - worst case mainland to/from NRT in Polaris, the rest in economy. A couple of times I had other flights booked in advance just in case UA doesn't materialize (EVA to TPE, then separate ticket on China Air TPE-ROR). Never flew through SPN, though.


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Posts: 1
(@Jawnson)
Joined: 5 days ago

As a family of 5 United has become a go to program, simply because they make 5+ J seats available on lots of long haul flights and don't have fuel surcharges. I stopped using them 6-7 years ago and we've returned to the program having 3 kids. Now we use United for 75%+ of flights and BA or AA miles for the rest. Program has gotten much better despite the restrictions and Polaris is a good product.


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Posts: 10
(@RichB)
Joined: 9 years ago

With a United credit card, miles are worth 2 cents each compared to refundable cash domestic tickets, a great value in my opinion. Buying an extra seat in coach, three can travel comfortably and inexpensively.


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Posts: 227
Platinum
(@samar)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago

When I have a choice on which airline to fly, I pretty much never will choose United. I know it's anecdotal, but I just have too many problems when I fly them. I also hated how they nickel-and-dime their customers (why the hell are you not including booze with your extra legroom seats?)

These recent changes have turned me off even more, to the point that I'll strongly consider downgrading my card at the next renewal. If I didn't have travel credit I need to use, I'd have already done so at the previous renewal. I don't want to support an airline that makes loyalty this blatantly pay-for-play.


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