It’s quite the transformative day at Southwest, as the airline seems hell-bent on changing everything that makes it unique. I’ve already covered how Southwest will start charging for checked bags, will start expiring flight credits, and will devalue Rapid Rewards points. That’s not all that’s changing, as Southwest is also introducing basic economy fares.
Continue reading: Bleh: Southwest Introducing Basic Economy Fares
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
"flight credits on Basic fares will only be valid for six months, rather than for 12 months, as is the case on other fares."
That doesn't sound right - flight credits no longer expire as of a few years ago.
@ Aaron L -- I'd like to introduce you to the new Southwest:
https://onemileatatime.com/news/southwest-flight-credits-expire/
as for what is in BoJo's head - it is to keep Elliott from taking complete control of the company. LUV has a pretty short leash to turn things around.
everyone wants to talk about the death of LUV but their economy product won't be much different from everyone else. Where exactly are all those people going to go that don't like what LUV is doing? A competitor that is not much different from WN in coach/economy?
WN is losing share in many competitive non-focus city markets but they still have enormous market strength and a deep balance sheet. They may have to draw on it during this transition but they will be fine. just not what WN was in the past.
Fun to open OMAAT this morning with the 3 articles on the top being WOW, Ouch and Bleh 😀 .
What I really don't get with the US airlines is why the non-basic fares don't include luggage. Surely it's in everyone's interest to avoid most pax turning up with a huge amount of hand luggage.
I guess that is WN's plan- dominate the markets where they don't actively compete with United or American and just try not to hemorrhage too much money everywhere else.
And all three being on the same carrier, which that doesn't even fly long haul or belong to an alliance. I look forward to reading all the juicy gossip on FlyAngola, Transnusa, and SKY Express over the coming few weeks.
I think this is all designed to make Southwest an acquisition target with the belief anti trust concerns can be overcome.
"I’m curious what restrictions there are beyond that. For example, will these fares come with a full size carry-on and personal item, or will that be restricted as well? Furthermore, will these fares replace Wanna Get Away fares, or will they be in addition to them (I suspect the latter, but who knows)?"
Yes, Basic fares will include carry-on. And they'll replace, not be in addition to, Wanna Get Away fares.
I think Elliott is going to vampire squid their way through a bunch of WN’s cash as they turn them into NK with heart logos and removing the actual differentiators with other majors, and then be on their way, leaving a husk behind.
Lowest common denominator hasn’t worked well for AA, WN doesn’t have international to help, and they are a long way away from being an actual LCC these days (and trashing their labor relations to get there is just going to be poison for the overall experience).
Burn it down....burn it all down! Why? Because Wall Street buttholes, who only own 20(?) percent of the company said so. What a bunch of feckless weasels inhabit the Southwest C-Suite in Dallas. They'll eventually all get what they deserve, but sadly a once awesome airline is going down the same drain as TWA. After all, there's no longer any reason to fly with them. And the real victims here will be the rank and file who've worked for WN for years.
It could be that they are aligning policies to industry even if it kills their special distinction so they can be an easier merger partner with another airline.
So Southwest is a clone of American, United, and Delta, just without first class.
Sad.
I know! It's not like the South West model has had a huge impact on the airline industry and has been copied all around the world ... JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier, Ryanair, easyJet, Wizz, Transavia, Norwegian, AirAsia, Scoot, Jetstar, IndiGo, SpiceJet, Cebu, GOL, Viva Air, Flydubai, Jazeera, Kulula, Fastjet have all followed the SouthWest model. So this news is significant.
This is called business survival folks. SW needs to find any way they can to increase profit margins. Call it private equity or a CEO who is delusional if you want. But if these changes weren't made, suggest others that would have dramatically moved the needle to keep SW afloat. They still may go out of business but at least die trying.
Change sucks but people will get over it. Remember when MAX planes were taking nosedives and had extremely tight seats and crazy small bathrooms? Yup, people still fly those planes everyday because they have to.
Genius business move. Kill off all USPs, just be another LCC in a sea of (failing) LCCs. How can it possibly go wrong?
I'm not familiar with the other continents, but none of the European airlines you mentioned offer connecting flights. The business model is by no means similar.
The Max comparison makes no sense - people do not "have" to fly Southwest. That's the whole point. These changes may very well make a lot of people choose not to fly them - because while none of these changes make them worse than their competition, there's also a lot of things their competition does better (namely rewards & premier passenger services).
The Max comparison makes no sense - people do not "have" to fly Southwest. That's the whole point. These changes may very well make a lot of people choose not to fly them - because while none of these changes make them worse than their competition, there's also a lot of things their competition does better (namely rewards & premier passenger services).
Correction: basic does not allow changes, according to the email just sent out by the airline.
All this Southwest news really is amazing news for AA, DL, and UA.
Unless Southwest is geographically closer to you (DFW vs DAL, HOU vs IAH, MDW vs ORD), there isn't any reason to choose Southwest anymore for anything other than price and I'll believe it when I see it if Southwest is able to nimbly compete in revenue management vs three enormous carriers that have been honing their skills for years.
As Cranky put it, the Day Southwest Died...
Rewards and premium passenger services are 2 things the average and majority of customers care nothing about. People on this blog care about those things, but not the average person.
SW may very well alienate their customer base into bankruptcy but my point is that they HAD to try something different as what they WERE doing was not working for the business.
@David suggest other ideas to drastically improve revenue for SW if these changes weren't it. I'll wait. Otherwise you're just another former whiny customer with nothing to add to the conversation.
Elliott could be calculating that the 'nice' things about WN get ~0 loyalty from lesiure travelers from their past 'perks', or at least not enough to capture a meaningful revenue premium (i.e., not enough to offset cost of the perks, including opportunity cost from not getting ancillary revenue). Like it or not, that would imply that this world is already the case (customers are really just chasing off of price / schedule / airport location) so why should customers get a subsidy here?
WN has very low share of business travelers, but the value prop there is *mad crazy points* for loyalty + Business Select fares, which they have only enhanced.
In addition what I can see from the email sent out earlier today, the “basic” tickets can no longer change their flights and do not have transferable flight credits. Additionally these credits expire in 6 months not 12.
Paul Singer from Elliott is an absolute bottom feeder and will sap all he can out of southwest. What a leech. Just read his bio and long list of destroying acquisition targets.
I'll suggest that they should have waited until they had something to give premium passengers before they angered the Wanna Get Away folks who have been loyal all these years. Doing it the other way around practically guarantees short-term pain with no long-term gain yet on the horizon.
On top of that, Southwest has made its already-bad Rapid Rewards program even worse.
I do not share your respect for private equity. The reason Southwest can charge monopoly fares into St. Louis is that 30 years ago, Carl Icahn took over TWA, destroying thousands of jobs and making himself billions, while hurting the economic standing of St. Louis to boot.
According to earning reports from Q4 2024 SWA earned $0.56 per share, which exceeded expectations (as reported by Reuters)
So let’s be clear, SWA is not losing money. The investors (well one specific investor) just feel that SWA isn’t making —enough— money. As such the change is being pushed for.
Will it help SWA make more, or will they push enough passengers to another airline? Time will tell. In the past my default search was with SWA and if the price seemed good I would book with them, not checking any of the other options. Those days are now gone. I am a total free agent. It may still work out that I fly SWA, but unless they truly competitive with their pricing I likely won’t.
The boarding process and overhead bin availability is going to be a nightmare with no free checked bags, and everyone entitled to a free carry on.
And without true international networks/partners. And without premium classes. And without literally anything that the US3 offer to anyone who travels regularly for work/pleasure and would gain from loyalty. WN is now positioning itself to the carrier of choice for people that have no desire to leave North America (and Hawaii, if that doesn't get cut, too) and are not intelligent enough to search other airlines. They have no advantage over any other airline. C'est la vie.
My daughter moved away for college last fall. We bought three tickets on Southwest for $59 each and were able to take 6 absolutely massive duffels that exactly matched southwests maximum dimensions. That seemed like a bargain for us. Every other airline was the same or cheaper on fare alone but with bags Southwest was by far the best.
"Rewards and premium passenger services are 2 things the average and majority of customers care nothing about. People on this blog care about those things, but not the average person."
Spot on. Occasionally I need to be reminded that the very specific things I care about don't even factor in to the equation for the occasional leisure traveler.
Elliott Investments have destroyed southwest. Hopefully they dont manage to profit from it.
Southwest should have have focused more on international airline partnerships and built airport lounges to improve the value proposition to credit card holders. Cutting free bags when thry have advertised this as their differentiating perk for decades is a brand-ending mistake.
@MaxPower, yup exactly that. Southwest will probably continue to do reasonably well in certain markets such as Missouri (MCI and STL) where the number of direct flights with WN far exceeds other airlines... but otherwise I just don't see the appeal.
@Alonzo that post makes zero sense. You cannot seriously compare *aircraft* selection to *airline* selection... I shouldn't have to explain why but in case it's not painfully obvious the majority of people don't know/care what aircraft they will be flying, and even if they do care they may not feasibly be able to pick an alternative.
As for WN, perks like 2 fee checked bags really did sway a LOT of families over to them, etc etc
Southwest was a winner for domestic travel with no change fees and the ability to use flight credit with ease. The free bags was bonus. COVID opened up no crazy fee cancellations on most carriers (less basic econ tickets) so SW lost some luster. Maintaining those perks costs $$$ as it can lead to lower flight loading and costs for heavier aircraft/bag handling. Southwest was once the cheapest, but the business model couldn't support it any longer.
Companion Pass - may still save Southwest loyalists.
Do we know if A-list and A-list preferred will retain the same-day flight change and standby benefits that they have on Wanna Get Away today?
As a loyal SWA flyer for more than 45 yrs. I'm mad, sad and disappointed by these changes. I stuck with them through thick and thin because of their culture that was different from the rest. I didn't mind open seating, no first class and the funny jokes.
There is really no perk to flying with them anymore and I likely won't.
This is the end of the customer centric airline I've always loved.
I just read today that Southwest will be charging for checked luggage, one of the reasons I liked flying Southwest was that this was a free option. I get it, Southwest is a business after all and businesses like to make money and it makes sense for them to do this but as a consumer I don't like it. In the past I would just assume I'm flying Southwest because of free checked bags but now that I have to pay I will shop around and maybe I'll fly Southwest anyways but then again maybe I won't?
"These fares will replace Wanna Get Away fares, and will some with seating restrictions, limited validity on vouchers, and reduced points earning."
I love your writing and I follow what you're saying, but this sentence is a bit of a copy-editing failure. I'm guessing that the Ritz-Carlton Reserve disaster really messed with you...
This is one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen a company make. Southwest decides to adopt the "bad" policies of legacy carriers that no one likes while missing all kinds of the "good" policies those carriers have, like first class, airport lounges, more-than-leisure international destinations, and robust airline partners. The benefit of flying Southwest, knowing that I wouldn't have an airport lounge experience, access to first class upgrades, or be able to go anywhere beyond the U.S. or international leisure markets, was that I knew I could count on them to give me a $49-$79 fare that I, of course, had to book well in advance during one of their sales that I could switch to a different flight day-of for free as an elite member that would also almost certainly guarantee me a window or aisle seat because elites board after A group and it was open seating. Aside from already having worked my way up to elite status again this year, I have zero reason to preference SWA over UAL now, as they'll give me the same routings I want domestically but UAL gives me upgrades, lounges, and a far superior international network. This is absolutely stunning and I have to wonder if SWA will be bought up by someone else in the next couple of years. Why in the world would anyone choose them anymore? Maybe the companion pass if you can fly on them that much?
Is WN even letting their fares show up in searches? I know for a long time they weren't because of referral fees, etc., so it rendered them invisible to me when I was sorting out my travel habits.
“Bags fly free on southwest” was what my friend in high school always told me (her dads a captain there) and that in itself was honestly enough to get me to seriously consider them over competitors if I paid full price for a ticket. Now living in an AS hub I can’t think of a reason to choose them over AS or DL
Premium passenger services aka business travelers make the bulk of profits for most legacy airlines. In fact in Europe short haul flying is usually done at a loss just to feed long haul business travelers. I can’t tell if SWA is trying to be another LCC in a sea of failing LCCs as another comment put it, or a legacy airline that is worse at everything that legacy carriers do
Copying the legacies does not work for SWA since they lack the premium products such as lounges, first class, and most importantly the international route tree.
Guess the only question left is who will end up acquiring SWA. Will it be AA or United.
The imcremental evolution should have started ten years ago yet here we are: operation warp speed radical reform that stands to hurt more than help. Seems to be a theme in the US these days.
It is sad that the airline that truly cared about its customers has turned its back on us,