After staying at Patina Osaka, rated the world's best hotel by Travel + Leisure, I'm reflecting on how big awards boost rates but also raise guest expectations.
The 'average person' cannot afford to stay in those hotels. According to the various internet calculators, I'm easily in the top 1% globally in terms of both income and wealth and I would only be able to justify spending the 70k yen that the Patina charges per night next month if travelling for a special occasion...if one is travelling for a special occasion, they will obviously be inclined to invest a bit of time in researching the hotel they're staying in. If one is happy to spend that sort of money on a regular basis, they should delegate the research to their personal assistant or travel agent instead of getting suckered in by random lists.
lol 70k yen/$450 USD for a really good luxury hotel is a fantastic price (not to mention its on FHR). millions of people pay those kinds of prices every day. comparing yourself to the billions of poor people in india/china/bangladesh/africa to make your point about "global wealth" is amusing
You're missing my point. I wasn't saying that the Patina is too expensive for what it is, it definitely sounds like it's better value than the hotels in Paris etc that charge a couple of thousand Euros for a standard room that's barely 30 sq.m.
The point is that those lists are accessible to the 'average person', including very much those in India etc, as a form of entertainment- like others may be intrigued by an article on the ant dish I had in a restaurant in SP serving cuisine from the Amazon- and that entertainment-related buzz is their main purpose. They don't have to be able and willing to stay in those hotels anymore they are tempted to try that ant dish.
If someone uses a random article in a lifestyle publication to inform a purchasing decision involving a serious amount of money (by their own standards), that's squarely on them.
Apologies for the dodgy grammar, trying to keep an eye on the (ant-free) meal I'm cooking.
@ Throwawayname -- I hear you, but a couple of thoughts. First, by "average" person, I meant average person who would typically pay for a hotel within that price range. Of course I understand if we take the average of the six billion people on earth, a vast majority would never spend this much on a hotel.
Second, I don't think these lists are just totally random and meant for entertainment for people who would never stay at these hotels. Even among luxury travel advisors and very frequent luxury hotel guests, there's a lot of talk about which hotels win these awards. I don't think that can be so easily dismissed. That's not to say that no research should be done, but I do think these rankings carry meaning for a lot of people.
I still think it's on them.
Those travel advisors aren't really a thing here in Europe so I don't have any first-hand experience (I did have a close working relationship with a travel agent for about three years but I unfortunately lost her to a car accident ca. 2002), but, if the Reddit luxury travel advisor shenanigans are anything to go by, it seems that in the USA it's a job with minimal barriers to entry/qualification requirements and that some of them who aren't all that gifted or/and knowledgeable still manage to attract substantial volumes of revenue.
LOL, top 1% globally.
But Ben asks me to be less critical, so here goes.
Top 1% globally would very likely fall into less than the median income in US.
People who make median income in US should strongly reconsider spending even just half or 35k Yen on any room. Splurge on something less. Top 1% isn't something anyone should brag about.
And I'm just trying defend the vulnerable from @Funkyflapjak amusement.
@Eskimo , you're also missing the point- see the other replies to the comment. I don't get to define the 'average person' globally or in any individual country. Incidentally, if we are going to use an individual country in this case, it's Japan where the median full-time salary appears to be just 4 million yen (or something like $25k).
@Throwawayname as you pointed out it really isn’t for the average local person in Japan. I would agree with you and even so I would not want to spend that much money per night for a hotel room. I would rather use that money with a more balanced approach such as having a nice meal or doing some shopping. This type of hotel would do well to cater to those who are willing to splurge or have serious cash such as successful business owners or someone who can get it reimbursed from his/her company.
Ben, you had me at “circle jerk”… :-O
In all seriousness, regardless of who’s doing the rating, I remain skeptical on hotels and airlines; feels very ‘pay to play’… the only standout remains Michelin for restaurants; they’re on it.
Agreed on Michelin, the pressure to maintain one’s ranking and not knowing when the reviewer pops in almost guarantee high standards. I love that system.
… maybe it’s my age (not 1990) or my taste?!?!
… Michelin for Restaurants the only standout … i 100% disagree!
Tastes are very different, artificial created food Gourmet Creations are too and usually far away from the natural taste of the basic ingredient!
In my opinion NON of the modern ratings these days deserve to be valued too much, simply because “tastes are different, as well as expectations!
It’s always best to figure out for yourself, what suits you best, what you might rate BEST for yourself and do your own rating.
… try to remember, … the old saying, you get what you pay for … THESE times are over!
Especially when it comes to the US hospitality cycle, travel publications who enjoy taking BIG $$$ for a certain rating and the masses just jump on it.
BEST example i guess we all remember well: 5* for a Lufthansa product that didn’t exist for years and once it did, it was a fail!
An airline from Singapore hyped up to the sky, what for … unprofessional, no sense of the individual passenger and in many ways totally overrated!
I try to avoid BOTH of these companies, simply because there is NON rated competitors, that might not be known as well, but by far better and from my personal experience much better rated!
Michelin ratings are often superficial and in my opinion outdated, while there is countries that have different food cultures.
So …. BEST …. go make your own experience!
The Michelin guide is a debased shadow of it's former self and has been since they started selling plaques (originally, even mentioning that you were in the Michelin guide was grounds for delisting) and when they started trying to cover every cuisine at every type of establishment.
Now they're just like any other "best of" list trading on their former reputation.
About five years ago, the French government launched a criminal probe into Michelin. Michelin had approached the tourist board/chamber of commerce at destinations. The proposition was simple: a payment for X number of stars in the area, more for Y stars, and even more for Z stars. A number protested and it went public. Hence the probe. The fact is that Michelin has become a pay-to-play racket.
Ben, aren't you essentially doing the same thing though, when you publish things like best first class or best business class airlines? Obviously you have less pull than travel and leisure, but I do see various brands advertising that they were named this or that by a particular blogger.
I'm not particularly criticizing you or for that matter the magazines. At least you have a website that provide an independent service. In this and other industries I have seen organizations or entities that seem only to exist for the purpose of giving out rankings and things like that. But I don't think that's intrinsically wrong as long as there's some transparency into how those ratings were calculated so people can see what the judge is evaluated and decide for themselves whether that is relevant to them or not. (
@ Ltl -- To answer your question, no, I don't at all think I'm doing the same thing. Let's take my rankings of first class, for example. I've flown every single first class product (except Air Cote d'Ivoire), so I can share from firsthand experience exactly how they compare. Nobody has stayed at every single luxury hotel in the world. And for that matter, they only stay at a tiny percentage of them. So the rankings aren't in any way comparative, they're just people saying "hey, I had a nice stay here, therefore it must be the best hotel in the world."
You'll notice that for my lists of the best business class lounges and best business class products, I don't create a ranked list, I just share the products that I think are among the best. I could probably claim to create an authoritative ranking, but I choose not to, because I recognize there are a lot of products out there I haven't flown (even if I'm confident they won't make the list).
To me there's a big distinction there. Someone experiencing every product and then creating a ranked list has some legitimacy to me. Meanwhile someone trying a few hotels and then proclaiming which is the best in the world, with an exact ranking, is less legitimate to me. Is that unreasonable?
You are absolutely right that there are other sites that create all kinds of awards, and to me, the motive there is pretty clear. It's not something I do.
… maybe it’s my age (not 1990) or my taste?!?!
… Michelin for Restaurants the only standout … i 100% disagree!
Tastes are very different, artificial created food Gourmet Creations are too and usually far away from the natural taste of the basic ingredient!
In my opinion NON of the modern ratings these days deserve to be valued too much, simply because “tastes are different, as well as expectations!
It’s always best to figure out for yourself, what suits you best, what you might rate BEST for yourself and do your own rating.
… try to remember, … the old saying, you get what you pay for … THESE times are over!
Especially when it comes to the US hospitality cycle, travel publications who enjoy taking BIG $$$ for a certain rating and the masses just jump on it.
BEST example i guess we all remember well: 5* for a Lufthansa product that didn’t exist for years and once it did, it was a fail!
An airline from Singapore hyped up to the sky, what for … unprofessional, no sense of the individual passenger and in many ways totally overrated!
I try to avoid BOTH of these companies, simply because there is NON rated competitors, that might not be known as well, but by far better and from my personal experience much better rated!
Michelin ratings are often superficial and in my opinion outdated, while there is countries that have different food cultures.
So …. BEST …. go make your own experience!
VERY TRUE!
… i usually DON’T trust ANYBODY on any ranking, it might just not be my personal expectation or how i feel.
There was 1 rating (i will never forget) which was just weeks after the head of this page (Ben) wrote about a Resort in Bodrum, Türkiye (was not the Caresse from his visit to the area!) but i had my expectations after reading the preview … AND … oh wow, i got there weeks after him and ALL expectations were topped!
From the first second i arrived, to the very unusual but amazing people in the service to the front desk guys that somehow, magically knew how to please a guest as a good host over the food everywhere in the resort to a lady from Greece who just knew how to keep track of a well organized beach and the guests making good use of it all, SHE was the BOSS, but knew how to satisfy guests, the DJ’s that took the pressure out of you and transformed 99% of the guests into a relaxed mode!
Even if i hardly ever believe in ratings or publications, THIS one was straight forward and oh wow, it reflected 100% just how i experienced the very same property, weeks later! …. ALMOST high season!
… so far, my personal most favorite BONVOY points Resort!
I bet, Ben knows exactly what property i’m referring to?! 😉
STEFFL, the type of creative cuisine normally found at Michelin starred restaurants etc is a fairly niche offering, my impression of it is that the ratings are related to creativity and service as opposed to taste per se. I have been impressed by the effort going into an avant-garde dish even though I might still prefer the taste of a thick pork chop that's been cooked without anything more than a pinch of salt.
Ben, despite the honesty of your reviews, experiencing every airline and hotel once is not sufficient to make authoritative rankings. There is variability in service between crews and a variability in hard products in the same class on the same airline. Ranking hotels would require staying in various room types and using all of the services. For example, hotel concierge services are something I use regularly and is an important factor in my evaluation of a hotel. I might be wrong but you don't strike me as someone who uses those services. The experience in a premium suite won't match the experience in the least expensive room. Also, airlines and hotels probably recognize you as an influencer. Your experiences may be atypical. I think one-time experiences by one atypical individual are not as reliable as aggregated reports from a large group of individuals. While your reviews are very helpful, I put more value in a 4.5 rating and comments from 100 people versus a 5.0 or 4.0 rating and comments from one person.
@Sushicat, I agree (mostly) with you. Staying for just one night is not enough to get a clear picture.
@ Sushicat -- When I rank first class products, I always acknowledge that experiences can vary, and I never claim that my preferences should line up with those of others. My point was that the concept of one person having every experience and then ranking them is different than someone staying at a dozen hotels, and then declaring one as the best in the world.
You're absolutely right, it's important to aggregate reviews, and one should never draw any conclusions based on one review.
But the fundamental problem with these lists remains. Do you think the Rosewood Hong Kong, Capella Bangkok, and Four Seasons Bangkok, are by any sort of metric actually the three best hotels in the world?
Ha ha. I wouldn't venture a guess because I haven't stayed at any hotel listed in the top 100. I have stayed at a few hotels that are in the same brand as some of those hotels. But even at those "second rate" hotels my wardrobe and I felt somewhat out of place. Park Hyatt and Ritz Carlton are pushing it for my comfort level, financial and otherwise.
Switching topics, rating airline business and first class is very difficult. For one thing, airlines often have two or more hard products in the same class (sometimes even on the same aircraft type) that provide vastly different experiences. Lite fares also complicate things. I agree that the 50 best hotel ranking is bull.
@Ltl You are confusing OMAAT with TPG. TPG also has its annual TPG awards. Also, all they do is push for credit card sign ups and write excellent reviews for those companies who give them freebies. They do not know diddly squat when compared to Ben. They still push the idea that Starlux was the first airline based in Taiwan to offer first class which is incorrect as CI and BR offered it many years ago before it was discontinued. At least, Ben can acknowledge that when I pointed it out while TPG does not.
It's been many years since Travel & Leisure was considered to be a trusted and authoritative travel publication and like Forbes or Newsweek, I'm surprised anyone with knowledge of the publishing or travel business pays any attention to their various rankings. On the other hand I do think Conde Nast Traveler still has some credibility.
@ Stuart Falk -- A lot of consumers don't have knowledge of the published and travel business world. A lot of people are just looking for a nice hotel stay, see the headline, and then make a booking decision.
@Stuart Forbes lost a lot of credibility by naming Kylie Jenner the youngest self-made billionaire back in 2019.
Forbes is two different things using the same name. There's journalism. I there somewhere, but the part that gets the most traction is the part where they publish blog posts that "look" like reporting.
I no longer use stuff from Forbes for anything important.
Have you really become so jaded (and pampered) that the only thing that excites you anymore is expecting a "life changing hospitality experience", be it in a hotel or on a plane?
Maybe you need to seriously consider moving the focus of your blog upward in terms of exclusivity and cost for the places you go and write about. Move your focus to private jets and flights--what is the best private jet for US domestic vs international travel, or how to rent or lease private jets. Limit your hotels and resorts stays and reviews to only places that someone like Bill Gates, Soros, or other billionaires would go to escape the mere multimillionaires that can pollute even higher end resorts.
There is also room to move up in terms of ocean voyages beyond merely very expensive cruises that are still open to the general public. Move into reviewing private yachts--how much can you afford and get if you are only a single digit billionaire vs. what you can get if you are someone like Larry Ellison, and where to go in your private yacht, either for gorgeous private views or to be seen by the paparazzi.
After all, by your own figuring you wave already flown every first class airline experience that exists. Maybe this new focus can provide the hospitality experiences you are seeking.
@ jcil -- "Have you really become so jaded (and pampered) that the only thing that excites you anymore is expecting a 'life changing hospitality experience', be it in a hotel or on a plane?"
I think you're reading into this in a way I didn't intend, and are missing the point I'm trying to make. And to prove that point, did you read my Waldorf Astoria Osaka review? Was the hotel "life changing?" No, of course not. Did it excite me, and did I love it? Absolutely!
I don't think this is going away, although I totally agree about expectations. Isn't that true of almost everything? When something exceeds our expectations we tend to be more positive than when something falls below (even if on a objective scale it was better). As a consumer, I do land up using reviews as a way to gauge if I want to stay at a hotel (knowing that the reviews systems are flawed). As a (hopefully) discerning reader of reviews and ratings, I try to pay attention to the features I care about because I realize that often these "best hotels" are rated for their amazing spas. I don't care. I do care about location and a decent sized room with a walk-in shower and no stairs (I'm getting older). And I do appreciate your reviews because you give details that help me decide if it meets my criteria, although I would love more boutiques that are fabulous without being Cheval Blanc level pricing!
For 99% of my travel, an hotel or an airline is a means to an end, and then I only see how the end is going to be fulfilled, and don’t pay any attention to rankings. To put it bluntly, a direct 2 hour flight in Ryan beats every day an 8 hour flight with one or two scales to enjoy a 5 star airline. Hotels are the same, for business or pleasure I wil set what are my requirements and see how to fulfill them at a reasonable cost. Don’t get me wrong, I have travelled in most of the premium airlines and stayed in very fancy hotels. But most times I am paying top dollars for location more than for a flawless service and wow amenities that are the issues theoretically captured by the rankings.
I enjoy finer things in life as much as anyone. However, I don't give a rat's ass to ratings of airlines, hotels and restaurants from any of these ratings firms or for that matter individuals like Ben. Chasing the ratings is a fool's errand.
When it comes to air travel, whether I get a comfortable seat (lie-flat for long haul) and a decent meal are the only factors I consider after price.
When it comes to hotels, a clean room with a comfortable bed in a convenient location are the only factors I consider after price.
With regards to hotels, the cuisine I am in the mood for and the hygiene (hard to measure, but I know what I don't like when I see it) of the place are the things that matter most to me.
One of the things I've noticed when staying at a really nice hotel in a vacation destination is there's very often one person who felt this trip could fix whatever they didn't like about their life, and when it inevitably doesn't, they somehow blame the hotel for coming up short. I've seen someone dress down the hotel restaurant manager at a five star resort in a way that made me friends with the guy at the other table who mouthed to me "what a douchebag". I've seen someone flip out because a hotel didn't have sufficiently "romantic" stationary to write a note to his wife on. A restaurant my wife and I really like suddenly started getting bad reviews after they got a Bib Gourmand award because random out-of-towners had wild expectations for a pizza place. Getting that high profile status leads to the worst broken, unreasonable expectations falling on the heads of the staff that work there.
So true @Lucky. I cannot believe HU and KE are among five star ranking especially in the viewpoint of the individual. It makes the customers have less faith in the opinions of SkyTrax. I had much better passenger experience on non five star SkyTrax rating such as CI and HX.
Think the best should be on what based on what memorable impression a property can leave on most patrons.
One example, stayed at Capella Bangkok once upon a time. Soon after it was voted the best on the planet. I told somebody I stayed at that property and instantly they asked me what made it the best in the world. I really could not recall my trip there. It was fine. Great service. Some pretty good restaurants. But nothing that really stood out. Nothing that could separate it from a host of other ultra luxe properties on the planet.
But i have stayed at palace hotels in India. Some beyond perfect experiences, some slightly less than perfect. But the grandeur of those palaces, made it the most memorable stays of my life. And i don't think any of those hotels made it to the list of the "Top 50" hotels in the world list i saw recently.
So i don't think these lists are worth the paper they are printed on.
@Throwawayname
Ok 2 parts.
1. "I don't get to define the 'average person"
Neither do I. Average income and wealth is defined by using math and statistics.
2. You're missing the point.
This hotel is not a commodity. It's not built or marketed for everyone. Hence using average is ..... (me censored for trying to be less critical)...
Incidentally, if we are going to use an individual in this case. It's like you're saying a Usain Bolt is very slow. The "average" cheetah is much faster than him.
I don't know why people have issues with Ben reviewing expensive trips. I keep defending Ben for the same issue with a different wording.
It always comes down to this.
One thinks this is a property for oneself to consider or afford.
But in reality, these properties are not catered to people like oneself.
This shouldn't be so hard to understand. IT WAS BEN THAT REFERRED TO THE AVERAGE PERSON, and my comment was made on the basis of that reference.
You're literally taking issue with Ben's wording in a review of an expensive trip while at the same time wondering 'why people have issues with Ben reviewing expensive trips' in the context of absolutely nobody in these comments having alluded to an issue with that!
BBT nails it. The stays people remember are about place more than polish. The Rajasthan palaces are a great example, Umaid Bhawan in Jodhpur or arriving at the Lake Palace in Udaipur by boat. No list really captures that feeling. Same with a rural ryokan in Japan where half the magic is the onsen and the kaiseki dinner. FWIW since so many award picks spread through short videos, a free app like Plotline saves those Insta and TikTok hotel finds onto a map so you can weigh them against places you found yourself. My rule is to read the 3 star reviews first, they tell you what an ordinary night there is like