As an aviation geek, I love listening to air traffic control audio, and always enjoy the VASAviation YouTube channel, which does a great job covering noteworthy air traffic control interactions.
Continue reading: What Is Wrong With These NetJets Pilots?!?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
"Can you fly this plane, and land it?"
"Surely you can't be serious."
"I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
When i listened to this over the weekend I wondered if the passengers on board were trying to change the destination and the crew were speaking to HQ.
Liquid or powder chemical intervention?
Mental perturbations?
Passenger involvement?
Too low for mile high club?
Anybody’s guess, definitely further investigation and explanation necessary.
On approach at 2000', they're almost at gear down, PIC would have told pax they're landing at TET.
My understanding is they were supposed to be at level 3000 through a waypoint but remained at 4000.
But yes I would have hoped the PIC would not be distracted by demanding PAX involvement if indeed that was the issue.
At least one of the two pilots had to have been PIC on multiple landings at that airport. It might have been that the other pilot was less seasoned at that airport . . . and happened to be PIC at that time . . . and was mentally behind the curve. In either case, I'm imagining some sim time at Flight Safety is in someone's future.
ATC in the wrong in this situation
Several reminders and making it clear that they want closer adherence to clearances is fine, but they're riding the pilots unnecessarily given other traffic and the somewhat bizarre responses are a reflection of crew stress.
Telephone numbers and deviation discussion can be made after they are safely on the ground and off an active runway, not constantly harassing as they're trying to set up an approach
They're "riding" the pilots because the pilots failed to follow even a single instruction.
Simple explanation, they hate BA and never set foot on a BA plane before.
Oh and they still believe there is only one option to fly DEN to LHR.
Eric,
I could not disagree with you more. This isn't just reminding a crew what they are supposed to be doing. This was a standard RNAV approach. All of these procedures and altitudes are also directly available on the approach plate as well as the aircraft's FMS, assuming they programed it correctly. None of this should have been a surprise to the flight crew.
Having been cleared for the approach (which they should have been expecting) makes it even more of a mystery as to why this was going on. The comment about "turning left to 080" demonstrates that they had no situational awareness as to what was going on.
Fortunately it appears as if this flight was actually conducted under VMC because if it was IMC, the outcome might have been tragically different.
Is it appropriate for ATC to ride pilots? If they are confirming instructions and then not following them, wouldn't that raise concern that something non-normal is going on in the cockpit? Wouldn't it be better to offer assistance than challenge?
How about “these” instead of “some” NetJet pilots. This is a very specific incident with a specific crew not a series of issues with NetJet pilots as inferred by “some.” Also, “Hah” is hardly mature as you seem to indicate your pleasure at this crew having received a pilot deviation. You don’t have all the facts, only the ATC exchange. Being glib and general are inappropriate for this particular example that you’re citing especially when there is a great opportunity here to learn from the pilots’ errors and maybe a shortcoming on ATC’s part.
Get used to it folks and use protective strategies. The number of incidents, deviations, accidents and the like seems to be off the charts, a common daily occurrence. Inexperienced pilots promoted up the ladder into jets accelerated with a pilot shortage and at the same time came DEI. You no longer have to be a good pilot to make it into a professional cockpit, only a warm body that checked a box. I've become a scared flyer and avoid it if possible. God help us.
There you go. You racist imbeciles blaming DEI for all the issues in the world. Must be a miserable existence for you.
There is much more to this story than what is heard over the radios. There is something happening in that cockpit causing a distraction.
Not familiar with that airport. I flew for NetJets for 18 years. We all flew in and out of KTEB with regularity. However, that does not matter. You are a professional. The approach should have been thoroughly briefed. Should be listening to instructions.
Granted that we did not know all the issues. One mistake…okay. But all the rest…NO!
First, we do not know the experience level of these pilots. But having flown for NetJets for 18 years, they should be able to fly into KTEB with their eyes closed. Do not know the reason, but they were not paying attention. NetJets is serous about a sterile cockpit. But, when you lower shoring standards to 1,000 hours, guess what you get? All the while letting go extremely experienced pilot due to a false age 70 limit. Go figure!
As a former Netjet pilot., it is possible that they were getting updated instructions fron ops. My experience has been ifvops contacted us during the approach phase, they would discontinue the conversation immediately. That happened to me a couple of times.