Virgin Atlantic Launching Sao Paulo Flights In May 2024

Sorta surprised that a carrier with such a comparatively small fleet would commit to this level of ship expenditure; but cool to see.

Sorta surprised they'd launch this, before reopening their longtime destination of Hong Kong though.

Delta is clearly the link and largest investor between VS and LA and will ensure the route does well.

The LHR - GRU route has been seriously underwhelming for years, both BA and Latam don't offer any reasonable service with old planes and poor comfort (my experiences). There is a large market with both Brasiliero and Brits, for me it's great news.

Apparently VS are also going to restart their DXB route along with a route to Bengaluru?

BA has been flying the A350-1000 with the new Club Suites for the past few years, so not sure I'd call them old planes - it's the newest they got 🙂
Virgin's 789 are also not exactly top spec.

But more competition is very welcome - prices are sky high!

LATAM is actually quite ok nowadays with their refurbished 77W.
Hard product is on par with the current competition and better than BA imo.
Soft product did improve a little bit.

I would avoid Virgin in upper class on any route operated by a 787

What kind of illegal activity are you suggesting?

Virgin has interline and baggage agreements with pretty much every airline at LHR. They get a lot of feed to/ from BA and Aer Lingus. More than you’d think, especially with BA. I have friends who routinely fly virgin upper class from Miami to London connecting directly to aer lingus to Dublin, all sold through virgin. Very common. They’re not just limited to themselves and their partners

I recently flew from LHR to GRU and BA use an A351! Wouldn't say that's an old aircraft! I would rather fly in J with BA/LA as Virgin are using those awful seats in a 787! This is a welcome addition as LHR-GRU is notoriously expensive and the flight both ways were full! Will be interesting to see how busy those flights are with Virgin.

there is nothing illegal when you are the major shareholder and you encourage cooperation between your investee companies.

You only wish that other US airlines, cough, cough, were as smart as Delta in creating its own network of equity holdings.

Delta is the major shareholder with VS, they are no more than 20% with latam. While delta has JVs with both carriers, that does not allow them the legal ability to coordinate revenue between VS and LA as an intermediary or coordinate anything as a shareholder in both.

And let’s not forget that they are now part of SkyTeam - the vast majority of SkyTeam airlines fly to LHR!

take a chill pill.
It is only in your 345345 mind that anyone suggested that anything was illegal.
Delta has the ability to enhance coordination between its alliance, joint venture, and equity partners.

You are simply jealous that Delta and Delta alone can do that.

Other than essentially say "Hey Virgin, are you aware that LatAm flies this route and may be interested in discussing a codeshare" (which BTW any airline can do, not just Delta), any further attempts to coordinate the unrelated carriers in schedule or finance would be in direct violation of anti-trust. Delta has LIMITED antitrust immunity with both carriers independently, but under no civil aviation authority nor agreement are they currently authorized to barter internal coordination between these two carriers.

Possible, though it somewhat begs the question of "how," since they're only going to have about a 6 aircraft net fleet growth through most of he remainder of the decade.

Tim, you're the one who directly suggested and insinuated revenue/profit coordination "Delta is clearly the link... and will ensure the route does well" on a route that Delta has zero ability to coordinate anything on since they have ZERO JV that allows coordination on a route they don't even touch between the UK & Brazil.

However, suggesting their equity stake allows them a special ability to ensure profitability. You can say what you like, but expect to be called out on it when you suggest Delta will break the law via its equity stakes.

What am I jealous of with Delta? Such a dumb thing to say. Delta can't coordinate anything between VS & LA. And lest you've forgotten, LATAM's primary European partner is still IAG, not AF/KL/VS.

The person who posts incoherent 6 paragraph rants whenever Delta is mentioned, suggests someone "take a chill pill"? loll...
Take the L for suggesting that DL was anywhere close to the majority owner of LATAM, it's not.

ImmortalSynn, you simply don't understand that Delta stands alone in the aviation industry in its ability to walk on water.

when you sit on the board of a company, you have the ability to do things that airlines that work solely under commercial joint ventures can do.

Regardless of whether you can see it or not, Delta has facilitated a number of types of cooperation between its equity carriers and will continue to do so.

you have the ability to do things that airlines that work solely under commercial joint ventures can do.

Yes, but (as you've now been told by three different people, but will proceed to ignore anyway) you can only do so WITHIN THE CONFINES of the immunity granted to that specific joint venture, within each civil aviation jurisdiction.

Thus, even if airline "A" has an immunized venture with airline "B" and also "C"... airline A can't just go to any old venue, and oversee strategic cooperation on pricing or scheduling between "B" and "C," without prior and PUBLICIZED legal authorization. That'd be highly HIGHLY illegal.

you and others clearly have no idea what owning equity allows you to do.
The bigger issue is that Delta has created a network of airlines in which it owns equity which is unlike anything any other airline has and so does not play by the rules that you THINK apply to them.

Virgin Atlantic has interline agreements with BA and SK and many other airlines at LHR - they get a surprising amount of traffic from those airlines on their long haul routes.

Virgin Atlantic stopped flying to Pakistan recently, which consisted of 3 routes, with about 11 weekly flights between them. They all began when the pandemic happened, but they were pulled (with government approval cited as the reason).

Whether some people understand it or not, Delta is the linchpin that will help link Virgin Atlantic and Latam and help ensure the success of this route.
The AF/DL/KL/VS joint venture does not just involve the US and Europe but to several countries in Latin America. As Latam further strengthens itself post bankruptcy, they will strengthen their relationship with the DL/AF/KL/VS JV just as Delta helped Aeromexico do before its own bankruptcy.
The route makes sense on many levels but the Delta influence in the markets on both ends of the route should not be dismissed.

Not realy off topic but... Can someone enlighten me (and surely others) why the heck not one Carrier is connecting BRU to GRU non-stop since ages? VASP and VARIG did, baaaaack in time. Why the heck we always have to connect in any other European country to fly to GRU. I know there is a HUGE business between Brazil and Belgium. Not sure if they couldn't fill up a Business-Class only daily flight between BRU and GRU.
Almost every Western European country have daily -some multiple ones- flights into GRU.

Well I'd have to say that with Air Belgium being a mess that doesn't fully know what it's doing and Brussels Airlines' growth being very limited as a result of the LH Group focusing on LH/LX (their only TATL flights being JFK and IAD, the latter not even daily), BRU is very much dependent on foreign carriers serving it. LATAM probably sees their airplanes being used more efficiently elsewhere, don't think they'd be able to get particularly high load factors and yields in comparison to any of their other European routes. If only the A321XLR had the range to connect GRU and BRU then maybe... but it's not the case

Did you really repost this just because people mocked your DL obsession in your previous comment?

1. It's not a repost and
2. I don't post what I do dependent on what people think and
3. Whether some people can accept it or not, Delta has created the world's most successful group of airlines built on equity rather than the traditional alliance structure. It is clearly obvious that Delta has created strength between its equity partners even when it doesn't directly involve itself. It is beyond naive to think that DL is not working to make Virgin Atlantic and Latam, two of its largest investments, benefit each other to the greatest extent possible - which ultimately does help their owner, Delta.

It’s very rare tickets are sold involving a combination of BA and VS.

He posted factual comments. What’s wrong with that? Have you considered some people on here work in the industry, therefore may know more about their organisation. It’s not an obsession. You obviously know very little

Icarus- Tim clearly knows a lot, and regularly offers valuable insights. He's also myopically obsessed with a single carrier—to a level that kind of discredits much of what he says.

@ Ben Holz;
True, Air Belgium is surely not an option, that's a leisure "Carrier" and GRU is not a leisure destination. And for Brussels Airlines, regarding the mess going on in Africa, they'd better focus on other markets. However, I would rather make a connection anywhere else than fly them to GRU but LATAM would surely be the best option. Be sure, there would be demand, there's a huge business between both countries, not to mention the quantity of Brazilians living in Belgium and vice versa.

I don’t work in the airline industry but gave followed from a business standpoint for 45 years. I know of which I speak

@ Timmy - If you were less hyperbolic you'd get less vitriolic responses.

And the fact is...while DL has equity investments, EVERY alliance connects the dots of their member hubs. Good route connecting dots, but nothing more brilliant or inventive than what the other alliances do.

It's NOT a new concept invented by DL, so get over it.

And from a financial perspective, pursuit of JV's versus equity stakes is a safer investment. With a JV you can share in profit without sharing in losses...especially important given different economic dynamics in every market. DL doing well with equity stakes, sure...but how did it play out when they first invested in Aeromexico?

I think it’s exclusively U.K. domestic feeds into and out of LHR from MAN, INV and EDI etc

@Tim I agree with you that DL is the anchor that will underpin VS expansion into South America however let’s not gloss over the fact that although Delta is a majority shareholder VS during the pandemic embarked on a restructuring effort securing angel investment and these “silent” investors to some extend are pulling the strings and hampering efforts by VS to begin modernising its sub par Upper Class product on the B787 and A333 prioritising dividend payments. I fear unless DL and VS buy out these entities allowing capital investment in the hard and soft products offered any expansion plans are doomed to fail just like the seasonal route to DXB which is not gaining any momentum and sales are well below expectations.

it's so nice to talk w/ someone that understands the issues and addresses them frankly but respectfully.
I don't disagree w/ you.
Remember DL had stakes in Aeromexico, Latam, and Virgin Atlantic that were all circling the drain during the early days of the pandemic. DL simply could not have saved 3 distressed carriers even while saving itself. Even w/ WheelsUp, DL called in help - and there are those that still will invest in aviation.
VS is an extraordinarily valuable part of DL's overall system but, like AM and LA, has a strong identity of its own.
Remember that VS is adding Seoul which clearly connects w/ DL's partner, Korean as does their Shanghai service with China Eastern.
DL obviously has no clout in DXB.
The more global VS becomes, and there will be more routes to Latin America, the more DL will benefit as will consumers. VS delivers a very unique and pleasurable travel experience.
They will do fine in Brazil and undoubtedly deliver traffic onto Latam's network.

It's not rare at all.