The Two Person Cock...
 

The Two Person Cockpit Rule Saves Lives... Why Don't All Airlines Use It?

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(@lucky)
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[#20295]
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Some airlines require two people in the cockpit at all times, but most don't. After several fatal incidents, why hasn't this become universal practice?


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Posts: 167
(@Davisson)
Joined: 14 years ago

This is the type of question that’s heavily discussed on the interwebs. Ai can summarize and give all points for and against it easily. It mainly comes down to additional distraction of a non pilot in the cockpit, technical and staffing restrictions like some aircraft can’t have two people or airlines just don’t have the staff to do so.

In addition, for this particular case, if a flight attendant was stabbed, they would have much harder time to get the door open.


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Posts: 110
(@Johhny)
Joined: 8 years ago

Don't disagree, but easy to imagine a pilot overwhelming a flight attendant


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(@this_comes_to_mind)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

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I assume the FA is standing and the pilot remains seated. There's no reason (and probably rules/laws against) for the pilot to get up. So, at least the FA is somewhat forewarned.


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Diamond
(@cph-flyer)
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Joined: 3 years ago

Politicians' logic, something bad happened, we need to do something, this is something, so we need to do this.

Similar chain of thought
All cats have four legs, my dog has four legs, ergo my dog is a cat.


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Posts: 16
(@Trevor)
Joined: 9 years ago

The comments about a pilot not having much problem overwhelming or stabbing a flight attendant remind me of the (deep breath) anti-mask argument. They aren't 100% preventative so whats the point?!
Perfect is the enemy of the good or something along those lines. If we have 10 pilot incidents in the next 5 years but only in 6 of them could a flight attendant get the door open does that mean we shouldn't have the 2 person policy??


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(@this_comes_to_mind)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

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Posts: 43

Yes, but (really not trying to revisit masking) one argument of concern in the masking issue is that it could/did put people with very low quality masks in proximity with the thought they were protected. Ditto, some may have avoided the jab thinking their flimsy mask protected them. These concerns have no clear parallel to this issue I can see.


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Posts: 75
Diamond
(@n17017)
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Joined: 2 years ago

Everyone knows that nothing matters more than money for corporations. There's no exception for the lives.


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Diamond
(@kaleb_with_a_k)
Joined: 5 years ago

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Posts: 79

Ridiculous argument.

The payouts from lawsuits alone would be 1000x the cost of staffing a second pilot for flights.


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(@Alert)
Joined: 3 years ago

Royal Hawaiian Air Service had Cessnas , one pilot , and a passenger in co-pilot's seat . Even Charles Lindbergh was in the co-pilot's seat on his way home to near Hana , Maui .


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 PM1
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(@pm1)
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Joined: 5 years ago

Good points Ben. Do you know of any plausible reasons all airlines don't have this rule and why LH cancelled the rule for their pilots?


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(@chrisdd)
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I think the FlyDubai example actually provides a counterargument. If you allow a FA into the cockpit with one other pilot, you now have to trust an extra person unnecessarily. The FA could plan to incapacitate the remaining pilot and control the aircraft. And I can see the argument that a FA might have less to lose than a highly trained pilot (even though that sounds quite elitist).

This is more trying to provide a rationale, however – I actually agree overall. On a related point, I'm not sure why pilots are allowed to use KCM at US security checkpoints with only random checks. Surely they should be subject to the same checks? Surely pilots would be more comfortable knowing their copilot couldn't have brought a weapon on board?


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(@PeteAU)
Joined: 10 years ago

The solution is to eliminate the human factor altogether.


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Posts: 114
 W Ho
(@W Ho)
Joined: 7 years ago

Lucky, you made a claim about the 2 person in the cockpit rule but not all airlines follow the rule.
You didn’t mention which airlines don’t.
Where is your evidence and what is your source?

You have lost all credibility. This is a fluff piece to hit your daily article count.


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Posts: 87
Platinum
(@foulowl)
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Joined: 12 months ago

We had Sept 11th… which impacted the entire nation for years, and thus sealed the deal for the US. Most other countries haven’t had this level of traumatic event connected to loosing cockpit control. Yes there are one offs in other counties, but we already know that one plane accident usually isn’t enough for a country to revamp their rules and add the financial burden to their national carrier.
Without Sept 11th… I imagine the US would still be a “one person allowed” country.


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