Smart: SkyWest Will Pay Flight Attendants During Boarding

For FAs on layovers, they are getting paid - whether overnight or the time between flights - door open to door closed. The higher they make during boarding time - the lower the wage for flight time. Their total year-end wages will all equal out in the end - it will not change. They’re “on-the-clock” no matter how you slice it.

Don’t doubt me, even if these 2 airlines aren’t union represented - they reap the benefits from companies with collective bargaining agreements. Look it up, most agreements can be found with a google search. This topic has been rehashed over and over with falsehoods.

The reason that flight attendants at unionized airlines are not paid during boarding time is that the unions negotiate in favor of the flight attendants with the highest seniority at the expense of newly hired flight attendants. It's in their interest to maximize the hourly pay rate while flying, not to dilute that pay rate to include boarding time. That's because the senior flight attendants are able to the select trips with long flights where they earn a lot of flight hours in a short periord of time (and more days off!). They may have just one boarding time for 8-14 hours of flight time. The junior flight attendants get the short hops where they may have to board 8 or 10 flights to get 14 hours of flight time.

It is probably fairer all around to have a lower pay rate during flight time and to be compensated for boarding time, as Delta and Skywest are doing. But if the union prioritizes senior flight attendants, as was shown in how they handled things early during the Covid disruption, then the senior flight attendants benefit from no pay during boarding and higher pay in flight, while the junior flight attendants are hurt from this negotiating pattern.

It's really about who has the power within the union. If the flight attendants want to be paid during boarding, they could prioritize that and reallocate the pay rates in their next negotiation. But they won't and what Sara Nelson says is just lip service.

The way to get boarding pay is to gut the unions not unionize the airlines that figured out how to give what employees need. But unions will union and sheeple will follow, poorer in the process

Delta took nothing away from senior flight attendants to add boarding pay for all

Delta’s not unionised though, that’s kind of Carl’s point I think

If only unions did not make it a union against company thing, they might get more done, but the two are adversaries at war. Not getting paid fully for boarding etc should be a crime. I don’t know why anyone puts up with it.

Whatever the cause, it still is wrong not to pay fully for all hours/minutes worked. Union or not.

Not paying during boarding may well be illegal in several states, for various reasons, which explains a lot as to why the non-union airlines, who don't have a CBA to abrogate certain wage and hour laws, are starting to do this.

What was left out of this article is that SkyWest management took away quarterly bonuses from the flight attendants to "give" them the boarding pay. It's all for optics.

While I generally think this is reasonable for hourly employees, I can see some logic to only paying for flight time, even if at a higher rate than they are likely to get over time with boarding time paid. My dad drove for Trailways and Greyhound many years ago. They were paid per mile driven which meant there was technically no pay for loading and unloading times at the beginning and end of the route as well as at stops along the way. If they were late by an hour, IIRC, they received an extra hour of pay however that was calculated. Obviously, the motive here was to ensure that the employee was aligned with the customer in terms of on-time arrival. You could not be leisurely so you could arrive 15-30 minutes late and, over a week, pick up an extra 1-3 hours pay.

That makes sense to me to align compensation to those things that increase customer satisfaction. Of course, loading an airplane is a far more complex operation than loading a bus and there are a lot more people involved and a lot more factors at play as well. But once you really think about the operations and alignment to the customer, things are often - more likely usually - not as nefarious as the array of experts on the internet deem them to be.

Legacy airlines in Europe pay staff a fixed annual salary with other concessions. Meanwhile in the US ..

What about the pilots?

“ The junior flight attendants get the short hops where they may have to board 8 or 10 flights to get 14 hours of flight time. ”

Carl, where are you getting this from? 8 - 10 flights for 14 hours of flight credit?? no way. Junior flight attendants can easily do 14 hours with a trip that consists of 4 legs total. I am far from being senior, and your point is a bit exaggerated. I understand what you’re trying to say, but that example is dramatized. I would much rather keep my hourly pay rate than have it slashed - because that pay rate number comes in handy for many things, from pay protections, incentive amounts on trips that need coverage, holiday pay, holding pay, reassignment pay, etc. is all based on pay rate.

There IS a way to implement boarding pay while retaining the active (or higher) current hourly rates - skywest and delta both gave raises when implementing boarding pay. Yes, it will come with a price, like sacrificing some protections or work rules - so it’s a very careful line that we have to walk. I’m not willing to go up to 22 hours duty day as United has proposed to the union.

You don’t have to be 35 years senior and holding the 15+ hour ultra-long haul routes to benefit from keeping a higher hourly rate in lieu of boarding pay. I fly strictly domestic and clear $10k+ a month. I dont know what impression you have of seniority or pay rates, but it doesn’t take 25 years to reach top pay. We max out after 12 years. A new hire who starts the job early as they can is topped out before they’re 33 years old. And you can still make great money (considering) before you are topped out. The flight attendant population, as a majority, understands this. The picture you try to paint of the union only catering to the senior people is therefore silly and unfounded — we, collectively, do not want to slash our pay rates.

Meanwhile in the US, we flight attendants can make double what they make in europe. Would never, ever want their system.

Except that per diem that you’re referring to is accounted for expenses abroad, like food, incidentals etc. and it is not taxed and not considered income on a W2. And is no more than ~$2.80-ish an hour. It is deceitful to say “they’re still on the clock”

Boarding a flight is the most hectic phase of the entire flight, hands-down. There should be compensation for it.

Americans who don’t want a system with universal healthcare, 24 days paid leave, a pension, maternity and paternity leave, sick pay need help.

The only country in the developed world without sick pay.

And don’t forget legislation to protect people when they get laid off.

But hey, you have your guns.

I understand the airlines' claim that boarding/deboarding time is built into block time, but the issue for me is that boarding/deboarding time is largely fixed based on the size of the aircraft and block time is based on length of the trip. The current system makes short trips very unattractive since the proportion of "unpaid" time to block time is larger than for longer trips. That needs to be fixed so that there is no difference in effective pay per hour between short and long trips. Long trips will still be more attractive, but without the pay penalty as well.

Let’s see, I have 5 weeks paid vacation, 50 hours of paid sick time, paid family leave, a decent 401k match plan and I fly 90 hours a month and make six figures, and I bid my schedule based on what I want, not forced rostered on the companies whims. Yea I’ll take being a US FA any day over our European counterparts. I have friends at EU carriers and they are envious of us.

What about them? If it were important to them they’d negotiate it into their generous new contracts.

SkyWest will not be getting full pay, however. Half pay, paid at 30 mins per flight, no more. Holding pay (any pay over 30 mins of boarding was removed) and quarterly bonuses. Whether boarding pay stays or not will be reviewed at the end of the year.

@Icarus, I’m referring to flight attendants who work for european airlines, not the entire system of European countries. I agree with many of the policies in European countries. Cabin crew, however - would definitely never ever want their system. I have over 33 days paid vacation days everywhere (with more to come as my seniority accrues), schedule flexibility that is unmatched when compared to euro airlines, an impressive 401k match, and much more income potential than their flight attendants. I do not want european flight attendant systems, specifically. We have it scooooores better in the US.

For the industry people in the comment sections-- is the actual door closing time noted and logged somewhere, and sent to the accounting department to include in payroll calculations? Who holds the "game watch"?

Will the new "boarding time" be actual time recorded by someone, or just another block of time added to each flight (perhaps based on aircraft size)?

These are genuine questions -- thanks in advance!

The time is indeed updated live in the company’s data systems - it shows on the airline’s app as the time of actual departure, and our pairing (our entire work trip that we view through our portal) is updated live with that exact time. As to whether this is paid as an actual-time prorated rate or the same block time dedicated for each aircraft, i’m not terribly sure - would be curious if anyone from delta could chime in on this. (I am at one of the other big 3 without boarding pay)

So much is happening during boarding, it’s insane to think how we (flight attendants) are not paid during that time. It is, in my opinion, the most hectic part of the flight. Honestly, I would be so much more incentivized to go above and beyond during boarding if I knew that I were being paid for that time. And i’m a go-above-and-beyond type of flight attendant as it is - but sometimes, especially during boarding, it does my cross my mind “wow, i’m doing all of this without being paid.”

that’s everything from sweating my chops off while setting up in the hot galley with no air flow (i’m looking at you, airbus), assisting with customer bags, repeating to somebody for the trillionth time that the closed bins are full, having to situate customers who insist on sitting in a seat that wasn’t assigned to them thus causing a domino effect throughout the cabin and then a traffic block out into the jet bridge whilst gate agents are yelling at us to magically fix the issue, etc. And I’m good at my job - I can handle and accept these tasks. But when you’re wearing polyester and drenched in sweat in a closed confined space dealing with poor attitudes, me-me-me attitudes, and general disregard for others around them, it gets frustrating when you remember that you aren’t being compensated for that time. I would feel much more incentivized otherwise.

FA’s should be on the clock as soon as they’re scanned in for the flight at the gate.

All crew should be paid from the minute they go through TSA. Professional’s in uniform representing the industry making us feel safe.

Once upon a time this might have been true when high seniority FAs outnumbered junior FAs. Now the opposite is true. For better or worse, unions have to negotiate based on what they think a majority of their union members will vote for. A contract that is detrimental to a majority of FAs is unlikely to get meet that requirement.

Boarding pay is great, however you have to give up profit sharing in exchange for it along with holding pay. At over 15 years with oo it’s only $10.00 for 30 mins of boarding. If boarding extends, the pay does not. It’s a step in the right/wrong direction.

You missed the obvious interesting point here. Skywest flies on behalf of multiple airlines, so the flight staff on the American Eagle or United Express or whatever if operated by Skywest will have the extra pay. This could encourage the legacy airlines employees to push their companies to visit this topic. I wonder if the flight staff at Delta or Skywest are more polite or provide better service recently as a result or more people consider these airlines because of in some opinion more properly paying flight staff.

Bingo!

Oh my goodness. I had no idea Delta’s flight attendants were not unionized. I thought all the Majors were. I was a F/A for American Airlines back in the mid-90’s before people became utterly out of control. If I recall correctly the AA F/A’s are still under the APFA (Association of Professional Flight Attendants).

I am all for this new boarding pay. It literally is one of the most stressful parts of any flight. Good for SkyWest and Delta for doing this. I’m sure they’ll pretty much do anything to prevent them from forming a union.

What did they give up to get this?

Agreed!