Plane That Crashed In Brazil Had Recent Accident, Was Grounded

Is "uh-oh" really an appropriate phrase to use when 70 people lost their lives in this accident?

Not specifically related to this accident, but minor repairs can sometimes take a lot longer than expected to fix depending on the availability of parts and/or specialised approvals. So the duration of an AOG isn't always indicative of its severity. You can sit for weeks waiting for a regulator or OME to give approval for something that then takes 30 seconds to actually fix.

@ Michael -- Totally fair, you're right. I'm sorry, that didn't come across the way I intended (it sounded different in my head), and I updated the post to remove it.

Or if they don't particularly need the plane, shifting expenses to a different period (been there before.....).

Also adding that the media in Brazil are sharing stories from former employees from not so long ago about the maintenance team using a toothpick to make a connection/fix one equipment or some not so nice nicknames about some planes from the company. Things are not looking very good for Voepass.

a flat spin induced by icing is still the most likely scenario but the previous accident could have damaged de-icing equipment on the aircraft or it might not have been properly repaired after the accident.

This airline did restructure under Brazil's version of chapter 11 bankruptcy IIRC.

I'm convinced that severe icing in the area is a more "significant lead" than a previous tail strike.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the tail strike is coincidental.

@ Joe -- It's possible that the severe icing and the previous incident both played into this. Severe icing in and of itself shouldn't bring down a plane, unless there's some other issue with the aircraft. After all, lots of planes were flying in the area.

I am waiting for the black boxes to be deciphered then go by that.

Interesting that the airspeed went so critically low regardless of icing or other mechanical issues that the pilot didn’t lower the nose to increase the airspeed
Could it be that the elevator controls or as a matter of fact all flight controls were not operational at that moment due to previous hydraulic issues that probably resurfaced

I have no expertise but I am pretty sure icing can cause a loss or diminished lift. Lift is what keeps the aircraft in the sky.

Like all the unfortunate passengers and crew aboard the ill-fated flight, Voepass will not survive this crash.

Loss of hydraulic fluid and pressure could affect the control and the stability of the aircraft such as rudder, ailerons, flaps, etc.

The ATR has an unfortunate history of several crashes due to icing. I recall people far more educated than I blaming the high wing... I have flown on the aircraft only once and though it comfortable for the 1 hour I spent on board. Nice looking aircraft. I do wonder if ice will be the cause.

Some wing designs are just notorious for being easily degraded by contamination or damage. High vs low wing designs have nothing to do with it. It's the actual design of the airfoil.

The three planes that stick out in my mind are the B-24 bomber (hence they were shot down at a higher rate than the B-17, which could often crawl back home heavily damaged), the Fokker F28/F100, and the ATR series.

Delta has never had a crash!

We are aware that this aircrafts is designed to have an anti ice/deice systems but is the System working?

ATR aircrafts are NOT using hydraulic power (expept spoilers/flaps-secondary flight control-) for primary control surfaced. ELEVATOR AILERON AND RUDDER ARE MECHANICALS.

@Ben, respectfully, "Severe" icing is defined by the regulatory agencies as that which is beyond the capability of the airframe to cope with.
So, in fact, yes, Severe icing could absolutely bring down the aircraft... particularly when you consider it's an aircraft that is perhaps more prone to icing than competitors (Fokker 50, Dash 8 come to mind), and that the crew did indeed request to descend (which was refused), perhaps to find warmer air.

While I'm not saying that you shouldn't report this prior history, I'd personally (and I say this as someone in airline maintenance management) be surprised if it proved to be a causal factor in this tragedy.
Time will tell, of course.

My gut reaction is these airplanes have killed more people than the 737MAX but where's the outcry and justice for passengers? On the contrary the then head of ATR denigrated the pilots' skills of the crew in the first ATR 42 crash by claiming "monkeys could have flown the airplane properly" Class act that!
Do go back and research how many previous ATR crashes were caused by icing including the very first of the type that crashed in Italy and the American Eagle crash into a beanfield in Iowa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eagle_Flight_4184

I will not fly this airplane family unless the alternative is a donkey cart and thats 50 50 at best.

American Eagle 4184 was an icing-related ATR crash. Wikipedia also directed me to another ATR icing accident, Aero Caribbean 883. Let's wait and see what investigators will find.

They do no seem to be related.
Accident investigators check all the maintenance records and identify if there was a potential link. It takes a lot of time to have the final report.

To be clear, you can't get a flat spin from icing. You can get a stall from icing, but for a flat spin you need to induce a yawing motion during the stall.

There's no doubt they were in a flat spin, it's clear as day in the video. How they got there remains a question. Icing likely caused a stall, but it's either going to be crew or mechanical failure that killed these people.

ATRs have a stick shaker and anti-stall pull down. Basically if the airspeed gets too low and a stall is about to happen the yoke will violently shake to inform the pilot. If the pilot doesn't respond and the plane is even closer to stalling the yoke will slam all the way forward automatically. It's strong enough to pull the yoke straight out of the pilot's hands. This will put the plane into a dive to recover airspeed and prevent the stall.

However, from flight tracking data, this plane flat spun for nearly 17k feet. No doubt icing fouled the wing and made it likely to stall, but someone or something happened to prevent any avoidance of that stall, and furthermore yaw the aircraft to induce the flat spin. Once it was spinning the aircraft was doomed. There's no feasible recovery in a large twin-engine aircraft like this.

Black boxes will likely reveal a failed stall avoidance system, inoperable airspeed instruments (blocked pito), pilot error in responding to a stall, or all of the above.

Everyone is pointing to AE 4184, but it's worth noting that, as one would expect in the case of a stall, that aircraft entered a nose down dive. They didn't have enough lift to pull out of that dive due to the ice, but they were still in a stall recovery dive. How this plane got into a flat spin remains a mystery.

While the investigator's are the best qualified to find out what happened, it seems here that it could (or not) be that the deicing system may have been effected by the aircraft's electrical problems if not a long systemic problem with the ATR in icy conditions....

Could have lost hydraulic pressure once again causing the crew to override the auto pilot and ultimately losing flight controls causing it to go in to a flat spin. You can hear the engines in the video. They are operating. so.. in summation.. my guess flight control issue.