Frontier Becomes First US Airline To Order A321XLR

oh no. Now I cannot sleep given that a Frontier ANC-FLL experience may become a possibility in the near future... Or a Wizz air BUD-PEK...

7+ hours (DEN-HNL) on a high capacity/density, 28" seat pitch, no thank you. That is a hard pass.

The ultra low cost transatlantic business may have been challenging in the past, but for that the XLR is a game changer. I think it's underappreciated how much more expensive wide-bodied planes are to buy/lease/run compared to these latest A320s, in the context of such narrow margins.

I think the XLR is the future of low cost international travel, and we'll all be better off for it. Criticism of single aisle models for long haul is unfounded, as if bigger planes somehow guarantee a bigger seat, more legroom or more lavatories. AIrlines will always configure the planes as they see fit and customers will weigh the value proposition as usual.

My eyes were opened on a recent Norwegian Air service from SF to Paris as to the value of the low cost unbundling model. Because food and drink is an extra the usual aisle crush after take off was avoided: no carts blocking the aisles and the relatively few people who ordered were served quickly and you were free to wander around the plane the whole trip. This is not a problem solved by having another aisle.

I think people are not thinking outside the box. I think we'll see more all-business narrow body long haul services, as well as all premium economy and of course all-economy torture chambers. The new models from Airbus are enabling more niche products as airlines seek to better serve flyers with more targeted products.

@Ben Defaultant:

You semi-answered a question I was wondering re: (U)LCCs on long haul flights. Personally, I'd never do more than 5-ish hours in a single aisle, but that's me. What you maybe fail to take into account, and what prevents me from ever wanting to complete a long-haul in a narrowbody, is that a single-aisle plane feels a much tighter fit beyond seat width and pitch. Narrow-bodies lack the higher ceilings across a wider cross-section of the plane as a result of the middle section. For me, that mitigates the coccoon-like feeling I have on single-aisle planes and makes the journey less awful or, dare I say it, more enjoyable... So yeah, narrow-bodies on a long haul is still a hard pass for this dude.

And now 50 for American Airlines. What a winner for Airbus this plane is!

@Adam R: I've been on the 787 with their "high ceilings" and I can't say they did anything for me, perhaps because I was in a window seat. Whatever the height of the ceilings most of my claustrophobia is caused by the outline of my seat, not the space above it.

I actually feel the opposite to you in a way. The thing that makes me more uncomfortable on planes is the number of people. Maybe I have some sort of agoraphobia. I find smaller planes and less people more relaxing.

@Lucky - Are you (a Tampian) offending Orlandians?

(Yes, I made those up).

I’ll take seat pitch and seat width over high ceilings most any day. 3-3-3 in the 787 feels like hell to me. Having said that, 2-4-2 in the A330 is much better, especially an e+ seat with >34” seat pitch. I would take that over an A321XLR unless I was in a PE or biz seat for a reasonable price.

Ben D, I think you are right that airlines will segment the market. I’m not flying 3-3 with 30” pitch but I will fly 2-2 PE if it’s priced right. I think the A321XLR will open up more opportunities to sell PE and Biz seats at fair prices. I’m hoping JetBlue does exactly that.

As others have pointed out elsewhere on the WWW, lots of people in the past flew safely and comfortably in single aisle 4 engined B707s, DC8s, and VC-10s internationally. Now you will do it with only two engines.

@Ben

"I think the XLR is the future of low cost international travel, and we’ll all be better off for it."

Boeing basically made that very bet on the 787 while Airbus developed the A380 -- and they were right. The XLR is interesting, but it's really just a more efficient 757, and it'll likely never be deployed en masse on high yield routes. It'll open up international travel to LCCs and ULCCs, but unless we lived in a world where slots opened up such that they could run them on the 30's on routes like JFK-LHR (which would admittedly be very interesting), it'll still be a niche plane for intercontinental travel. The "real" sweet spot for game changing international travel IMO is the 788, 789 and mayyybe the 330neo. Those are the planes that will serve secondary cities from international hubs that have feeder traffic. Being able to fly intercontinental from secondary city to secondary city with only 1 stop (vs having to drive several hours to an international airport and then STILL have 1 stop) is the game changer. Think Austin, TX to Split, Croatia or Richmond, VA to Budapest. Instead of having to stop in Houston AND Frankfurt (ATX->SPU) or drive 2.5 hours to Dulles and stop in LON/FRA/etc (RIC to BUD), you can now fly from home and only stop once.

Price sensitive customers will always do inconvenient stuff -- whether it's drive several hours to an alternate airport or sit in 28-29" pitch on an intercontinental flight. This is just another such option. I'm not super interested in that, though... and there's likely not going to be a way to redeem for outsized point value on that either...

@justin
It will be a more efficient 757 and can i point out that 2/3 of the 757 ever built are still flying today, so i give airlines a 757 replacement on a platform that they have plenty of pilots crew and infrastructure for and it seems to be selling like hotcakes.

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the Boeing C-suite offices this week as Airbus eats their lunch in Paris with the 321XLR. By the time they announce the 797 it'll be a day late and $10B short.

Cabin width doesn't mean much to me. Seat width does, as does pitch. I generally prefer PE and on a trip to a second-tier TATL destination, I would much rather have a direct flight in a 321XLR in PE over a 2- or 3-hour connection on a 787 or A350, etc. Say to EDI, or PRG, rather than connecting through LHR or CDG.

And who knows, if AA starts flying their own 321s to these second-tier destinations, we might see more international saver awards available without the obscene BA surcharges.

I'm wondering what WizzAir will do with those too. They only fly to Dubai which I think is their furthest flight from Budapest. Maybe they're looking at the US too?

Thinking the ULLC model will be the international Southwest. Probably be loved in 10 years.

I think this topic should be revisited now that Frontier announced operations out of a new crew base in San Juan, that even gives a lot of more options to fly to and from SJU to Europe perhaps or even West Coast or South America?