Frontier Airlines CEO Blames Delays On Private Jets, Demands Restrictions

"That’s not so easy to do if you have a customer onboard, since it could be that the ground delay program doesn’t actually work out as you expect"

At the same time, can't the private jet operator then just claim something else as a delay? Worst comes to worst, they are right back where they would be if they weren't trying to game it, best outcome is they shave time off their delay.

It’s an easy attack that appeals to populist sentiment, but I think the majority of private flights are using airports without airline service, like Teterboro where they don’t have to stack up behind dozens of airliners like they would at Laguardia. I know there is still some private at big airports, but I doubt banning it would make a big difference. Airports make money with private, not just with steep landing fees, but also hangars and maintenance facilities on the field that employ lots of people.

It's not as much about the airports as it is the surrounding airspace. New York and Florida both have a high density of airports, which naturally leads to congestion. Take Teterboro. Even though the airport has no airline service, it still feeds into the same airspace as JFK, LGA, and EWR, all airports with a lot of air traffic.

This 100% true with Aspen airport especially around holidays.

It truly is a gamble at ASE with weather, barometric pressure, one runway, and PJ traffic hogging the runway.

The Frontier CEO was specifically addressing ground traffic, but you’re right, you can’t separate one from the other. His argument then becomes a much less appealing attack on all general aviation, including Cessnas and Pipers. Instead of railing against the “fat cats” in private jets, he’s basically arguing that the national airspace surrounding commercial airports should be dedicated to airlines. That’s a slippery slope back to pre-1978 airline regulation, which the Frontier CEO won’t like.

There are a handful of airports including some listed here including EWR (right next to Teterboro) and PBI where private jets have a high percentage of traffic - but F9 is not the largest airline in any of those markets.

and general aviation and private jets pay taxes just like commercial aviation - and those taxes are a higher percentage of costs per passenger than for commercial aviation.

it is also is noteworthy that he doesn't address prop aircraft - probably because ATC does a pretty good job of separating slower prop traffic from jet traffic even if they all have to compete for the same runway space.

I have enjoyed flying into major airports in Class B airspace in a single engine prop plane and know that I get my time on the runway just like a 321 or 787

The "higher percent per passenger" is the wrong metric. Once in the ATC system, a jet is a jet. And business jets pay far less per flight than passenger jets into the trust fund, despite using similar resources for each flight.

A dentist in his 172 is obviously a different beast. But business jets pay too little.

I actually agree with him, as a 121 pilot it can be infuriating what the PJ guys do. For example Aspen, PJ guys routinely file to Rifle on busy days to avoid delays to ASE then the whole descent they beg DEN Center and ASE approach if they could just squeeze them in lol. Sadly enough it actually works, just one small example.

Ah, yes, Aspen/Pitkin County Airport, ASE, a great example... for Frontier's target market.

(Imagine, once they expand the runway there, it could accept a fully-loaded a321 from Las Vegas... to go ski at Aspen/Snowmass.)

Well, Teterboro is about to get interesting as JSX (arguably, a 'public charter' with 'scheduled' flights, as opposed to true 'private') is starting flights from there, using a loophole with bookings done through their frequent flyer program (and the PANYNJ let that happen). Already, XE1114 operates from TEB-FXE (Fort Lauderdale Executive), as recently as yesterday, Monday, October 13 (even in the rain and wind, wow!) Anyway, seems good for competition.

That's what you pay for a in a private jet. Luxury and flexibility because there is at most what 10-12 passengers. Can't do that with a 200+ A321.

An earlier comment notes Aspen/Pitkin. Bingo. During peak times the private jets use a variety of antics to take over the airspace and limited landing slots leaving several hundred passengers a day stranded at ASE outbound and diverted to grand junction or stuck in Denver.

Yeah, this is the part @Ben I'm not sure gets. Say you're expecting a 3 hr ground delay, and you want to leave at 2:30p. You file for noon (which would mean a ~3:00p departure time), and then your customers get on at 2:30p. Since GDPs are often a little pessimistic, you're likely leaving 2:40p or 2:50p.

If somehow the release comes way sooner (e.g. 2:00p) you just cancel and re-file. Of if its just a few mins (2:20pm), you can just stall a bit. Either way, you're saving your PJ passengers lots of time.

"Democratized" probably isn't the right word. I think "socialized" fits better. Socialism for rich people.

The solution is simple, make private planes use separate airport only for private planes and charge them the fees to maintain them. The rich get to keep their privilege but pay for it.

It's the biggest problem at Newark where they have to share takeoff slots with Teterboro and the private jets. 200 people waiting to take off but have to wait for one guy in a private plane. been that way for years

John says, "The Frontier CEO was specifically addressing ground traffic"

He is addressing air traffic control 'ground delay programs' are usually the result of airspace limitations often caused by enroute weather among other things. It's not a matter of ground traffic.

Private Jets do not cause many of the Frontier 9 and 10 hour delays.

That's on Frontier and their sorry ass operation.

He is correct with PBI. If you try to depart on a Sunday around 4pm Jan-March, you are going to be in a long line of NetJets and other private aircraft. I assume this is more location specific.

PBI loves collecting landing fees from private aviation and the NetJets base supports some well paying jobs for locals. Doubt the airport wants to lose the revenue stream.

It’s an interesting argument. I recommend serious readers and responders take two hours to listen to the recent 2-part episode on the Freakonomics Radio podcast that does a sober, deep-dive into the strengths and shortcomings of our ATC system, including a fascinating interview with the president of the NBAA.

What a cry baby. If he ran a decent airline,he would not be whining. They claim to be a budget airline, I have checked their fares,by the time you add in bag fees, carry on fees, water bottle fees, the Big 4 are cheaper. So, suck it up,and put on your big boy panties.

He's wrong. Frontier suffers from tardiness because Frontier has less of a hub and spoke system and has less aircraft ready at the station in case of a maintenance issue. Add the not perfectly mastered process of moving people at Frontier that frequently causes pilots to time out. The truth is that crews timing out because of delays is what hurts his airline which suffers a poor on time ability without any other aircraft private or commercial even having to do with it.

Ben hits the nail on the head with his second point, airline congestion. The big 3 keep adding routes and gobble up slots when they have to opportunity. The ATC system has been taxed for 2 decades and the antiquated technology adds to the crunch. Corporate greed and wanting to stuff more asses in seats exacerbates the problem. Perhaps the FAA should throttle back the airlines so as to ease the strain on the system. The airline route structure continues to blossom at the risk of the flying public. If ATC does not have enough controllers then an adjustment has to be made by limiting these burgeoning airline schedules until the system can be made whole again.

I actually agree with him. I didn’t know private jets caused this problem so I learned something and I think that private jets should be given a lower priority than scheduled passenger jets now that I know this. I think a fair solution is first come first served. If the passenger jet already has their schedule on the books then when a private jet comes along, the FAA ought to have to look at traffic and see if they can fit the private jet in at their newly requested time without delaying an airliner that’s already reserved their time. If not, then the private jet should be made to get in line behind the scheduled airline departures. However, I’d be willing to bet that tight crew scheduling close to the maximum duty hours and not having sufficient staffing of standby reserves are far more to blame for Frontier’s cancellations than private jets. Is Barry Biffle sure that he wants his passengers to use this app? Sure, they may see some private jets occasionally but what I imagine they’ll much more of is United and Delta flights still taking off while his flights are cancelled. I think that might not be too smart.

A “smart guy”? Has he ever booked passage or used his own website, for anything ? This airline is joke.

Biffle is deflecting Frontier's mismanagement. Florida's problem is a combination of a narrow corridor, short-staffed JAX ATC, tropical storms, and increased TFRs by SpaceX and the President in the last few years.

Blaming others for frontqueers lousy service

Any comment making light of him blaming PJs Private Jets is censored!

It feels like a smokescreen from a guy who can't get his airline working properly.

Blame the rich. Yeah, that'll sell.